I tried this game twice and here is what EVE is in a nutshell:
Good graphics, good concept and extremely piss poor user interface and controls.
This game could easily be the number one mmo out there if the devs would make a useable interface and revamp the keyboard controls. As it is these two factors killed EVE . If that is overhauled instead of WoW being at the top EVE would be at the top.
Now here's an example of a really poor user interface, on a modern naval cruiser
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also the random socket error thing I hate it its annoying but it seems the EVE Online servers are not located in the U.S they are located outside the U.S, and from tracking their IP address it shows Iceland?
I am on a 50+ Mbit connection I get very good speeds and between their connection route and mine I get around 30% packet loss at times or random packets dropping here and there which can result in EVE closing/logging out clients randomly they need to get in touch with the people hosting their Nodes, or Routes and let them know to fix their cheap servers thats the problem right there so it would seem although these are generally not CCP's responsibility but they do pay their networking bills I am sure.
Of course it shows Iceland. That's where their HQ is! (Although, they also have some servers in the UK, and probably in China and/or Japan)
Also, I never get socket closed - unless I've been afking for a retarded amount of time (read: gone to bed, then work), or my own connection drops (wireless or moving from wire to wire). But you're probably right; the greater amount of hops between you and them, the greater chances of someone elsewhere bugging up.
|< I 1 1 I |\| 6 _ Z 0 |\/| 8 I 3 5 _ 5 I |\| C 3 _ 1 9 9 0
Originally posted by tom_gore Your evidence was from 2010. Last time I checked there has been at least 4 major EVE updates after that.In any case, I'm going to hop into my exploring ship tonight and find a DED site and see how it turns out. Will let you know. I've got access to a well-fit Assault Ship so that should be able to survive at least levels 1 through 3.
You stated that it was not possible even before AI changes and no other changes since then are related to discussed topic.
Also, it was you bringing up DED complexes, not me
Originally posted by Rocketeer One dev summed it up somewhat like this once:We have situations where you are required to rightclick an object in space, go down a context menu, have a submenue pop out and click something there ... During intense pvp combat, under fire, and while coordinating with other players in voicechat.Prime examples are "Warp to P3M12 at 40" or trying to orbit another player at something besides your preset range. Lots of menues and submenues inside of them, thats EvE. I heard a usability designer once had a stroke after trying out EvE, true story.
Still I do not see what the problem is supposed to be here...
I really tried to get into eve, i played for a good month, but shooting little colored boxes miles away in space just got boring. The combat just felt too static and disconnected. I mean you watch these big PvP fights on Youtube and it just looks like a complete mess off colored boxes moving around in space. It just doesn't feel very tangible during combat. I loved everything else about it though. Wish i could really get into it but i just couldn't.
Your evidence was from 2010. Last time I checked there has been at least 4 major EVE updates after that.
In any case, I'm going to hop into my exploring ship tonight and find a DED site and see how it turns out. Will let you know. I've got access to a well-fit Assault Ship so that should be able to survive at least levels 1 through 3.
You stated that it was not possible even before AI changes and no other changes since then are related to discussed topic.
Also, it was you bringing up DED complexes, not me
Your first link is the one that brought the DED complexes up. The loot you posted in your "evidence" was obviously a very lucky DED run or looted from a player you did not kill yourself. Which is why I challenged you to do it again, to discount pure luck.
Also, I tried a lvl 3 DED complex before Retribution in a BC and sure as hell was getting my ass kicked. Might have been my (then) poor fit or just plain not understanding the mechanics. Which is why I said I'll try it again with my Assault Ship (which can run most lvl 3 missions post-retribution without trouble and even some lvl4s).
Originally posted by tom_gore Your first link is the one that brought the DED complexes up. The loot you posted in your "evidence" was obviously a very lucky DED run or looted from a player you did not kill yourself. Which is why I challenged you to do it again, to discount pure luck.
Not really, I recommend you to read the blog carefully and probably read some other exploration/general guide to understand the basics.
DED plexes drop deadspace items. Not really the same as faction loot in my link. 2 different things.
Your first link is the one that brought the DED complexes up. The loot you posted in your "evidence" was obviously a very lucky DED run or looted from a player you did not kill yourself. Which is why I challenged you to do it again, to discount pure luck.
Not really, I recommend you to read the blog carefully and probably read some other exploration/general guide to understand the basics.
DED plexes drop deadspace items. Not really the same as faction loot in my link. 2 different things.
I do know how the exploration works and have been scanning down a lot of sites. Radar sites bring in pretty nice cash, but finding them in high-sec is pretty much a hit or miss. On average, the same amount of money can be easily done by running lvl 3-4 missions. Admittedly you cannot run those with a week old toon, whereas radar sites you can.
And if the faction loot in your other link did not come from exploration, why did you link me an exploration guide?
Are you admitting you got that loot from a lucky high-sec incident where some idiot got blown up in a multi-billion ship and you happened to be there to scoop the loot?
And if the faction loot in your other link did not come from exploration, why did you link me an exploration guide?
You asked for guides how to make ISK for PLEX on new toon/trial account.
I already explained how the loot was obtained...
Sorry I had totally forgot your explanation already. Still linking an exploration guide does not help anyone gain 1 billion ISK within 24 hours.
So the only remaining question is - can what you did still be done today or has CCP plugged this by changing the faction NPC spawn mechanics? As I said, there has been 4 major expansions in between.
Originally posted by tom_gore Sorry I had totally forgot your explanation already. Still linking an exploration guide does not help anyone gain 1 billion ISK within 24 hours.
I never claimed that linked exploration guide linked will make you 1B ISK within 24 hours.
Originally posted by Gdemami You asked for guides how to make ISK for PLEX on new toon/trial account.
You seem to get things fairly mixed up.
1B in 24 hours is indeed extreme but it can be done even today since nothing related has changed. The point I was demonstrating is that skill points are no limitation and making ISK for PLEX - and even more than that, is definitely doable for new characters.
Sorry I had totally forgot your explanation already. Still linking an exploration guide does not help anyone gain 1 billion ISK within 24 hours.
I never claimed that linked exploration guide linked will make you 1B ISK within 24 hours.
Originally posted by Gdemami
You asked for guides how to make ISK for PLEX on new toon/trial account.
You seem to get things fairly mixed up.
1B in 24 hours is indeed extreme but it can be done even today since nothing related has changed. The point I was demonstrating is that skill points are no limitation and making ISK for PLEX - and even more than that, is definitely doable for new characters.
Again, luck and "knowledge of exploitable NPC spawns" aside, there is what... exploration of Radar Sites? You know fully well that it's going to be tight to get that 600M for a PLEX with exploring only, unless you play like 4-5 hours a day, every day, scanning down sites. I don't know about you but for me that would get boring _really_ fast.
My point still stands. Don't go for a PLEX in your first month. It'll only make EVE feel like a chore instead of a game.
Originally posted by tom_goreYou know fully well that...
All I know is that there will always be people not being able to achieve same things as others do, did in past or even imagine they are possible to do and they will keep denying facts regardless of evidence...
Ok now you got me interested. Praytell how you acquire one billion ISK in 24 hours with a fresh charater without scamming or exploiting?
There are quite a few methods. This particular case was exploiting knowledge of NPC spawning mechanics and faction loot.
So it was an exploit, one that's probably plugged by now. Kudos to you for finding that exploit and reporting it, but it doesn't change the fact that by legitimate means it's not really possible to pay for your sub with PLEX within the first month, unless you dedicate your whole playing time to it.
You will help others who have been there longer pay for there game time.
I'm sorry was there a point to your post?
Yes the point is you will never catch up to the folks who have been there alot longer and there is no magic bullet to make you revelent to most long term players.
While it is true you will never catch up to the folks who started earlier than you, you fail to grasp that there is no need for you to do so. I'll agree, there's a point of training you have to achieve to achieve increasing amounts of relevance, but after a year or so you're pretty much in the big leagues in EVE.
I've got about 3.75 years of training and some of my characters are over 70MSP.... sure I don't have as much as the folks over 120M, but it doesn't matter, they have almost no advantage on my anywhere, except in fields I've chosen to ignore like mining and industry. (the skills of my combat pilots would make any PVPer drool)
The 2nd point is partially true, you do have to put in your time, play and learn the game in order to succeed, there is no magic bullet to relevance. (not even buying a high level character will help in this regard)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We have situations where you are required to rightclick an object in space, go down a context menu, have a submenue pop out and click something there ... During intense pvp combat, under fire, and while coordinating with other players in voicechat.
Prime examples are "Warp to P3M12 at 40" or trying to orbit another player at something besides your preset range. Lots of menues and submenues inside of them, thats EvE. I heard a usability designer once had a stroke after trying out EvE, true story.
Still I do not see what the problem is supposed to be here...
Misclicks due to tiny menues? Unreadeable text when using TVs as output? Inability to hotkey important actions since they require mouse input(some even have textfields ffs)?
But in the end nobody cares wether you see a problem, its plenty enough if CCP devs are aware of them and working on them. Reason for the sorry state of the UI is old legacy code by amateurs btw, when they programmed the UI back in 2000-2003 they had no clue what they where doing. There is a devblog on it from the time they redid the UI a couple years back.
Originally posted by Rocketeer Misclicks due to tiny menues? Unreadeable text when using TVs as output? Inability to hotkey important actions since they require mouse input(some even have textfields ffs)?
Your bad sight and use of non-standard display device? That's all?
Slider for orbit/keep range could be handy I guess.
Almost seems like you are playing wrong game, no button smashing in EVE, sorry.
Misclicks due to tiny menues? Unreadeable text when using TVs as output? Inability to hotkey important actions since they require mouse input(some even have textfields ffs)?
Your bad sight and use of non-standard display device? That's all?
Slider for orbit/keep range could be handy I guess.
Almost seems like you are playing wrong game, no button smashing in EVE, sorry.
Actually there is an option to increase GUI size....
All I know is that there will always be people not being able to achieve same things as others do, did in past or even imagine they are possible to do and they will keep denying facts regardless of evidence...
The choice is yours.
My choice is that I'm done with your rhetoric bs. You've shown us nothing that would validate your claims. For all we know that screenshot proves absolutely nothing.
By the way, ran a 3/10 DED complex last night. Full room aggro of 40 enemy frigates would vaporize any ship any 1-month old character could fly. My well-fit assault ship had to jump out and come back 3 times to finish the complex.
EDIT: The full room aggro seems to be on the fix list for today's patch. Will get back to this.
Misclicks due to tiny menues? Unreadeable text when using TVs as output? Inability to hotkey important actions since they require mouse input(some even have textfields ffs)?
Your bad sight and use of non-standard display device? That's all?
Slider for orbit/keep range could be handy I guess.
Almost seems like you are playing wrong game, no button smashing in EVE, sorry.
Who said that i am affected by these? Its called empathy, affected people complain about it, and i see how it bothers them.
Never understood when it got cool being a insensitive jerk. Props for assuming how i play the game and that i want button smashing, really shows your style.
Misclicks due to tiny menues? Unreadeable text when using TVs as output? Inability to hotkey important actions since they require mouse input(some even have textfields ffs)?
Your bad sight and use of non-standard display device? That's all?
Slider for orbit/keep range could be handy I guess.
Almost seems like you are playing wrong game, no button smashing in EVE, sorry.
Actually there is an option to increase GUI size....
Originally posted by Rocketeer Who said that i am affected by these? Its called empathy, affected people complain about it, and i see how it bothers them. Never understood when it got cool being a insensitive jerk. Props for assuming how i play the game and that i want button smashing, really shows your style.
Not jumping on bandwagon of vague complaining/ranting/bashing makes me insensitive jerk?
Who said that i am affected by these? Its called empathy, affected people complain about it, and i see how it bothers them.
Never understood when it got cool being a insensitive jerk. Props for assuming how i play the game and that i want button smashing, really shows your style.
Not jumping on bandwagon of vague complaining/ranting/bashing makes me insensitive jerk?
Its no longer a bandwagon of "vague complaining/ranting/bashing" if the devs privately and openly agree with you. But being unwilling to accept legitimate issues because they do not affect you does make you and insensitive jerk, yes. Im pretty sure thats actually pretty close to the definition of being a insensitive jerk. However the jerk part has more to do with the way you phrase your disagreement, and try to lobby against changes whose only purpose is to help other people.
And yes, im aware of the UI scaling. It came around due to the "bandwagon of vague complaining/ranting/bashing", thanks to the CSM and some devs with us on that wagon we finally got a major rework of the backend UI system into their schedule.
I will never forgive myself for not playing this before. All those years of wandering around with crap MMOs while EVE was right there!!!
The game is amazing, feels like i will be playing it for years, not like some other "promising" MMOs, that are insteresting for 3months max... _ _ 2
So guys, if u hesitate to try this game, dont! I regret for not playing it before!
Don't worry, you will quickly realize that the game is in fact extremely boring, once you see that it will take you another couple months just to get the skills to properly pilot even the smallest/most pitiful craft in the game.
The game is so deep it is really what you make of it. Sorry you were bored but either the game is just not for you, or perhaps you just bring with you what you expect. Some people think Chess is boring, others find the deep strategy refreshing. EVE is not an instant gratification, OCD, short attention span game for certain. It has some long drawn out deep and strategic parts, and some part's that happen rather quicky. To me comparing EVE to virtually any other game out there is like comparing Chess to tic tac toe.
EvE is the yardstick by which I measure all other MMOs, especially if they claim to be anything like a sandbox MMO. Most of the time, they fall short. Even so, I don't play EvE anymore. The main reason is that I couldn't find a decent corp to do things with, so I got bored. The game itself is really great, but it's still an MMO so soloing everything will get old fast.
It is entirely possible to make stupid amounts of ISK right out of the gate. You don't need a guide, and using a guide is probably a bad idea anyway. EvE's market is highly competitive, so as soon as someone writes a guide on how to make ISK a bunch of other people start to do it and ruin the market (depending on how much demand there is). The easiest "guide" would be to either learn to play the market very well. Not the Jita market, though many fortunes are made in Jita, but the whole market. Cross-Region Export/Import is a good living if you have the patience and talent for it. So is day-trading. Heck, so is contract trading. Almost anything is a good living if you can find your niche, and most of the stuff that makes decent ISK isn't dependant on skill points. It's dependant on you finding it before everyone else does.
Is it reasonable to assume a new player will have this much in-depth knowledge before their trial is up? Yes. That's one of the reasons EvE is worth the $15/month. I'd resub in a second if I thought I'd find a decent group of people to hang with.
Comments
Now here's an example of a really poor user interface, on a modern naval cruiser
http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/b4300384-0771-4858-aa37-dfcb8d968617
Makes the EVE interface look pretty good by comparison
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Of course it shows Iceland. That's where their HQ is! (Although, they also have some servers in the UK, and probably in China and/or Japan)
Also, I never get socket closed - unless I've been afking for a retarded amount of time (read: gone to bed, then work), or my own connection drops (wireless or moving from wire to wire). But you're probably right; the greater amount of hops between you and them, the greater chances of someone elsewhere bugging up.
Follow my tweet (:
You stated that it was not possible even before AI changes and no other changes since then are related to discussed topic.
Also, it was you bringing up DED complexes, not me
Still I do not see what the problem is supposed to be here...
Your first link is the one that brought the DED complexes up. The loot you posted in your "evidence" was obviously a very lucky DED run or looted from a player you did not kill yourself. Which is why I challenged you to do it again, to discount pure luck.
Also, I tried a lvl 3 DED complex before Retribution in a BC and sure as hell was getting my ass kicked. Might have been my (then) poor fit or just plain not understanding the mechanics. Which is why I said I'll try it again with my Assault Ship (which can run most lvl 3 missions post-retribution without trouble and even some lvl4s).
Not really, I recommend you to read the blog carefully and probably read some other exploration/general guide to understand the basics.
DED plexes drop deadspace items. Not really the same as faction loot in my link. 2 different things.
I do know how the exploration works and have been scanning down a lot of sites. Radar sites bring in pretty nice cash, but finding them in high-sec is pretty much a hit or miss. On average, the same amount of money can be easily done by running lvl 3-4 missions. Admittedly you cannot run those with a week old toon, whereas radar sites you can.
And if the faction loot in your other link did not come from exploration, why did you link me an exploration guide?
Are you admitting you got that loot from a lucky high-sec incident where some idiot got blown up in a multi-billion ship and you happened to be there to scoop the loot?
You asked for guides how to make ISK for PLEX on new toon/trial account.
I already explained how the loot was obtained...
Sorry I had totally forgot your explanation already. Still linking an exploration guide does not help anyone gain 1 billion ISK within 24 hours.
So the only remaining question is - can what you did still be done today or has CCP plugged this by changing the faction NPC spawn mechanics? As I said, there has been 4 major expansions in between.
I never claimed that linked exploration guide linked will make you 1B ISK within 24 hours.
You seem to get things fairly mixed up.
1B in 24 hours is indeed extreme but it can be done even today since nothing related has changed. The point I was demonstrating is that skill points are no limitation and making ISK for PLEX - and even more than that, is definitely doable for new characters.
Again, luck and "knowledge of exploitable NPC spawns" aside, there is what... exploration of Radar Sites? You know fully well that it's going to be tight to get that 600M for a PLEX with exploring only, unless you play like 4-5 hours a day, every day, scanning down sites. I don't know about you but for me that would get boring _really_ fast.
My point still stands. Don't go for a PLEX in your first month. It'll only make EVE feel like a chore instead of a game.
All I know is that there will always be people not being able to achieve same things as others do, did in past or even imagine they are possible to do and they will keep denying facts regardless of evidence...
The choice is yours.
While it is true you will never catch up to the folks who started earlier than you, you fail to grasp that there is no need for you to do so. I'll agree, there's a point of training you have to achieve to achieve increasing amounts of relevance, but after a year or so you're pretty much in the big leagues in EVE.
I've got about 3.75 years of training and some of my characters are over 70MSP.... sure I don't have as much as the folks over 120M, but it doesn't matter, they have almost no advantage on my anywhere, except in fields I've chosen to ignore like mining and industry. (the skills of my combat pilots would make any PVPer drool)
The 2nd point is partially true, you do have to put in your time, play and learn the game in order to succeed, there is no magic bullet to relevance. (not even buying a high level character will help in this regard)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Misclicks due to tiny menues? Unreadeable text when using TVs as output? Inability to hotkey important actions since they require mouse input(some even have textfields ffs)?
But in the end nobody cares wether you see a problem, its plenty enough if CCP devs are aware of them and working on them. Reason for the sorry state of the UI is old legacy code by amateurs btw, when they programmed the UI back in 2000-2003 they had no clue what they where doing. There is a devblog on it from the time they redid the UI a couple years back.
Your bad sight and use of non-standard display device? That's all?
Slider for orbit/keep range could be handy I guess.
Almost seems like you are playing wrong game, no button smashing in EVE, sorry.
Actually there is an option to increase GUI size....
My choice is that I'm done with your rhetoric bs. You've shown us nothing that would validate your claims. For all we know that screenshot proves absolutely nothing.
By the way, ran a 3/10 DED complex last night. Full room aggro of 40 enemy frigates would vaporize any ship any 1-month old character could fly. My well-fit assault ship had to jump out and come back 3 times to finish the complex.
EDIT: The full room aggro seems to be on the fix list for today's patch. Will get back to this.
Who said that i am affected by these? Its called empathy, affected people complain about it, and i see how it bothers them.
Never understood when it got cool being a insensitive jerk. Props for assuming how i play the game and that i want button smashing, really shows your style.
So are you still liking it?
Not jumping on bandwagon of vague complaining/ranting/bashing makes me insensitive jerk?
Its no longer a bandwagon of "vague complaining/ranting/bashing" if the devs privately and openly agree with you. But being unwilling to accept legitimate issues because they do not affect you does make you and insensitive jerk, yes. Im pretty sure thats actually pretty close to the definition of being a insensitive jerk. However the jerk part has more to do with the way you phrase your disagreement, and try to lobby against changes whose only purpose is to help other people.
And yes, im aware of the UI scaling. It came around due to the "bandwagon of vague complaining/ranting/bashing", thanks to the CSM and some devs with us on that wagon we finally got a major rework of the backend UI system into their schedule.
The game is so deep it is really what you make of it. Sorry you were bored but either the game is just not for you, or perhaps you just bring with you what you expect. Some people think Chess is boring, others find the deep strategy refreshing. EVE is not an instant gratification, OCD, short attention span game for certain. It has some long drawn out deep and strategic parts, and some part's that happen rather quicky. To me comparing EVE to virtually any other game out there is like comparing Chess to tic tac toe.
EvE is the yardstick by which I measure all other MMOs, especially if they claim to be anything like a sandbox MMO. Most of the time, they fall short. Even so, I don't play EvE anymore. The main reason is that I couldn't find a decent corp to do things with, so I got bored. The game itself is really great, but it's still an MMO so soloing everything will get old fast.
It is entirely possible to make stupid amounts of ISK right out of the gate. You don't need a guide, and using a guide is probably a bad idea anyway. EvE's market is highly competitive, so as soon as someone writes a guide on how to make ISK a bunch of other people start to do it and ruin the market (depending on how much demand there is). The easiest "guide" would be to either learn to play the market very well. Not the Jita market, though many fortunes are made in Jita, but the whole market. Cross-Region Export/Import is a good living if you have the patience and talent for it. So is day-trading. Heck, so is contract trading. Almost anything is a good living if you can find your niche, and most of the stuff that makes decent ISK isn't dependant on skill points. It's dependant on you finding it before everyone else does.
Is it reasonable to assume a new player will have this much in-depth knowledge before their trial is up? Yes. That's one of the reasons EvE is worth the $15/month. I'd resub in a second if I thought I'd find a decent group of people to hang with.