About that limitations on Operations...

ControlBlue

People are still not massively subscribing, either because they are still deep in their free class story or they took what they could and left to the numerous games out there on the market.

Yet the end-game, which is by far the most entertaining part of the game other than the class stories needs number in order to be active.

The Free-To-Play players can't access Operations, and subscribing for a part of the game that needs a guild when you are new, that also needs some understanding of the whole system that will gladly NOT tell you about (you will either learn about Raiding on your own or through a stable guild, if you are in a stable guild you are probably already a sub...).

Result: The close-knited guilds that could raid before the F2P update are still the only ones that can now. The F2P players will be forced out of the game as soon as their 2 class stories are over, those who will sub while have to still deal with a low population of raiders and raiding guild, and if they are new to the genre just forget it...

Thoughts?

thecapitaine

It's a very strange F2P system they've got going.  The main benefit I think SWTOR has over many other raiding games is that there are ways for people to casually engage in it.  So I don't believe that F2Pers who sub for Operations are necessarily left out in the cold.  However, Bioware's overall plan for F2P really isn't helping the situation.  Why would someone even bother subbing just for the Ops when they've barely done any flashpoints, warzones, or indeed any significant grouping along the way to 50?  I love group content and I still think (with a few exceptions) that most of it is unexceptional.  Combine that with the reality that a large portion of the playerbase never even make it to 50 at all and it doesn't sound like endgame is the place to count on for big revenue.

nate1980

Originally posted by ControlBlue

People are still not massively subscribing, either because they are still deep in their free class story or they took what they could and left to the numerous games out there on the market.

Yet the end-game, which is by far the most entertaining part of the game other than the class stories needs number in order to be active.

The Free-To-Play players can't access Operations, and subscribing for a part of the game that needs a guild when you are new, that also needs some understanding of the whole system that will gladly NOT tell you about (you will either learn about Raiding on your own or through a stable guild, if you are in a stable guild you are probably already a sub...).

Result: The close-knited guilds that could raid before the F2P update are still the only ones that can now. The F2P players will be forced out of the game as soon as their 2 class stories are over, those who will sub while have to still deal with a low population of raiders and raiding guild, and if they are new to the genre just forget it...

Thoughts?

I started subscribing again after the F2P update. I'm still leveling up my Marauder. I'm level 37. I'm seeing less and less people the farther I go along, just like at release when I reached the later planets. As for Operations, I barely give them a thought. I play for the class stories, and if Bioware doesn't expand upon those class stories like they promised a long time ago, I'll be cancelling my account once I'm done with them. 

I used to like raiding, but those who do like raiding treat it too much like a job. I work a very demanding job, so I can't raid all the time, which means in most guilds I would never get to raid. Not to mention people obsessiveness with parsers and whatnot. Whatever happened to the old days of winning a raid or not winning a raid. Now you have people trying to squeeze every ounce of HPM, DPS, and etc. out of every player like a manager does at a factory, trying to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of a worker.

Karteli

Well Extra Credits did a special on Microtransactions, which has floated around a bunch, in reference to SWTOR and EA's misunderstanding of what F2P actually means.

 

Extra Credits: Microtransactions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI

 

EA's separation of paying players from non-players is a big NO-NO.  It won't increase game popularity.  EA was warned, but since they don't read customer feedback, they went ahead with their model anyways.  It was only when bad press hit that the suits started asking, "why don't our customers love us?".

 

EA is continually behind other companies, and definity behind the eight ball.

nate1980

Originally posted by thecapitaine
It's a very strange F2P system they've got going.  The main benefit I think SWTOR has over many other raiding games is that there are ways for people to casually engage in it.  So I don't believe that F2Pers who sub for Operations are necessarily left out in the cold.  However, Bioware's overall plan for F2P really isn't helping the situation.  Why would someone even bother subbing just for the Ops when they've barely done any flashpoints, warzones, or indeed any significant grouping along the way to 50?  I love group content and I still think (with a few exceptions) that most of it is unexceptional.  Combine that with the reality that a large portion of the playerbase never even make it to 50 at all and it doesn't sound like endgame is the place to count on for big revenue.

You can do 2-3 FP's per week. Unless a person is rushing through the game, that's plenty. You should be able to run each FP once as they appear on your list for queing. I'm a subscriber, but I've noticed that I haven't been running more than 1-2 FP's per week myself, and I que up for new FP as soon as I reach the level requirement.

Besides, everyone knows that F2P games doesn't mean you get the entire game for free. You're expected to buy things from the cash shop, not freeload. So if people are serious about running FP's and Operations, they can buy passes to run more of them if the current limit isn't enough for them. Same with passes to be able to equip an item.

ControlBlue

That Extra-Credit episode sounds hella interesting, on my way to give it a look.

But yea EA aka "Energy Systems EVERYWHERE!!!" is keeping true to its reputation.

EDIT:

WOW,

It's like Bioware/EA watched that video and went "fuck it, we will still do it!!", they literally did everything wrong (yes even the selling of power, that 2 quickbars limitation gives an advantage to those who have more, especially in PvP).

It pains me to say this, but SWTOR MUST FAIL, to teach the industry a lesson. At this point this is getting closer and closer to blatant stupidity!

Wizardry

I fall right into the category of WHY .

1 i do not feel the game has enough depth to warrant paying.

2 i have no interest in turning my MMORPG experience into a instance raiding game,i join a rpg ,i want a rpg.

So if SWTOR is aiming for customers based on instances,they are badly mistaken.If the yare aiming for my money,they need to shore up combat both my character/class and the NPC/Ai.

There are tons of little things of course,it is never a this or that.

Things like "Discovery" yo uare awarded experience,even though the linear questing ,took to that point and it was marked on my map,how can you call that  a DISCOVERY?

That is what i call cheap and a lame idea to make it look like i have accomplished something in the game.

So what exactly is there to warrant paying a monthly sub?Im my character is not immersive,the crafting is very weak and restrictive and the AI /combat structure is very weak,i have what?voioce overs?Sure like most i can truly say voice overs are nice,but ever notice there is only like 2 different npc's?All they did was change the tatoos or hairpeice on the same models.

Bottom line is i pay ATTENTION to detail and there is a lot of little things that are not good in SWTOR.

NO WHERE in my post have i stated the game is bad,it is just not good enough.

 

ControlBlue

The hilarious thing is that they expect people who come for a single-player experience (the Class stories) to then magically crave raiding enough to want to subscribe...

@nate

You are pretty much wrong on the whole thing. Also I think you confused FPs and WZs, FPs have unlimited access but you are restricted in the number of times you can get loot.

F2P does mean you get the entire game (or at least the core of it) for free and with no limitation, or should I say good F2P (League of Legends being the perfect example). What SWTOR has implemented is a TRIAL MODE, nothing more, nothing less, this is what you call a free game that impose limitations on you -both- in content and usability (those quickbars...).

Even a player that freeload is doing good to a F2P game, by keeping it active and possibly serving as a publicity to other customers that will end up paying for some stuffs. By forcing people into buying all you can achieve is a short-term gain until people know better, and if from what we have seen from SWTOR, a short-term gain doesn't get you very far...

What they should have done, I think, is allow people unlimited access to both Operations and Warzones and do the same thing they did with FPs (although I would advise enabling people to get loot from an entire FP only once per day).

Seriously, they are just surfing on the popularity of the word F2P, and the worst is that the only one they are fooling are themselves.

 

thecapitaine

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by thecapitaine
It's a very strange F2P system they've got going.  The main benefit I think SWTOR has over many other raiding games is that there are ways for people to casually engage in it.  So I don't believe that F2Pers who sub for Operations are necessarily left out in the cold.  However, Bioware's overall plan for F2P really isn't helping the situation.  Why would someone even bother subbing just for the Ops when they've barely done any flashpoints, warzones, or indeed any significant grouping along the way to 50?  I love group content and I still think (with a few exceptions) that most of it is unexceptional.  Combine that with the reality that a large portion of the playerbase never even make it to 50 at all and it doesn't sound like endgame is the place to count on for big revenue.

You can do 2-3 FP's per week. Unless a person is rushing through the game, that's plenty. You should be able to run each FP once as they appear on your list for queing. I'm a subscriber, but I've noticed that I haven't been running more than 1-2 FP's per week myself, and I que up for new FP as soon as I reach the level requirement.

Besides, everyone knows that F2P games doesn't mean you get the entire game for free. You're expected to buy things from the cash shop, not freeload. So if people are serious about running FP's and Operations, they can buy passes to run more of them if the current limit isn't enough for them. Same with passes to be able to equip an item.

If it takes a player less than 5-6 weeks to level, they won't see all the Flashpoints and get proper rewards for them.  (As far as I know anybody can do any number of FPs just for the heck of it).  In any case, I'm also a subscriber and I grok how F2P is supposed to work.  My argument is that this implementation of it doesn't work.  The endgame is paltry compared to other offerings and it's clearly not the focus of the game.  The best bits, the parts that Bioware trumpeted loud and long are the parts that can be "freeloaded" and unless someone plans to just give operations a once-over, there's no fiscally sensible alternative except to sub to engage in it.  They've opened the floodgates to the singleplayery aspects of their game and put all the stuff that keeps people playing longterm (socialization/progression/phat lewts) behind walls that their initial playerbase has already made clear they don't want to pay for.

Karteli

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by thecapitaine
It's a very strange F2P system they've got going.  The main benefit I think SWTOR has over many other raiding games is that there are ways for people to casually engage in it.  So I don't believe that F2Pers who sub for Operations are necessarily left out in the cold.  However, Bioware's overall plan for F2P really isn't helping the situation.  Why would someone even bother subbing just for the Ops when they've barely done any flashpoints, warzones, or indeed any significant grouping along the way to 50?  I love group content and I still think (with a few exceptions) that most of it is unexceptional.  Combine that with the reality that a large portion of the playerbase never even make it to 50 at all and it doesn't sound like endgame is the place to count on for big revenue.

You can do 2-3 FP's per week. Unless a person is rushing through the game, that's plenty. You should be able to run each FP once as they appear on your list for queing. I'm a subscriber, but I've noticed that I haven't been running more than 1-2 FP's per week myself, and I que up for new FP as soon as I reach the level requirement.

Besides, everyone knows that F2P games doesn't mean you get the entire game for free. You're expected to buy things from the cash shop, not freeload. So if people are serious about running FP's and Operations, they can buy passes to run more of them if the current limit isn't enough for them. Same with passes to be able to equip an item.

Aion F2P did a great job with introducing a method counter to your own statement.  GamersFirst (NCSoft) actually gave their entire, and I mean enitre game away for free when then went F2P.  No limits.  They introduced a cash shop that had just fluff items, like costumes, alternate furnature (for housing), and minor leveling buffs.  They did well by this.

 

Another NCSoft related game, League of Legends, continues to be EXTREMELY popular (and profitable), even though it is F2P.  LoL players buy stuff that affects their appearance but not their character ability, in any way, shape, or form.  It's not an MMORPG, but the model is there to drool over.

 

So everyone doesn't exactly know what you are saying.  Getting an enitre game for free can actually benefit everyone... the developing company because they have more players swirling around, and the paying customers because they feel like the money they spend is justified because the game is populated.