What are Darkfall's Sandbox Qualities?

stealthbr

With the launch of Darkfall: Unholy Wars just around the corner, I would appreciate it if someone could provide a list of things that make Darkfall a sandbox. I did tried the free trial mildly, but the original simply did not impress me with its clunky combat, crude animations, and less-than-inspired visuals. While presentation definitely plays a major role on whether I am initially hooked to game or not, what I truly value in a game of this type (sandbox) are the small things, for I believe that they are responsible for its longevity factor. A sandbox, in my eyes, should present many venues of gameplay, such that it does not revolve entirely around combat and sieging. However, the apparent vibe around this game is that it is first and foremost a siege-centric game, and not a fully-fledged sandbox. For that reason, I hope some of you can post a list of meaningful features or activities that one will be able to partake in Darkfall: Unholy Wars.

Thanks.

thinktank001

There are none known at this time, except PvP.   It is still possible that crafting and an economy could still happen if resources are regional, and there is some kind of production limitations.   However, I wouldn't put any hopes into either of those, since they would be an obstacle for " fast paced pvp ".  

marcust

I dont think a dry list of "you can do A, B and C" would really do Darkfall justice.

While the housing is ordinary (compared to UO) you get so absorbed in city fights that you really do feel ownership of a city and feel a comraderie with those you defend it with. The people create the content and thats one definition of a sandbox.

I guess the rest will come out in a release note soon but hopefully that gives you the idea.

I'm an old fart but I'm excited like a schoolkid over this release.

Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.

You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

Raxeon

Originally posted by Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.

You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

no not really but if you say so ok

Zinzan

Originally posted by Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.

You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

Aside from the glaring fact that we still don't know enough about this game for any of us to make such claims.

Gdemami

---

Originally posted by Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

---

Pretty much this.

That is what DF was and there is no indication that DFUW should be any different.

Hotjazz

Originally posted by Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.

You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

Jesus you sound like a bitter man,as all you do is complain. Just take a look for yourself, all your recent forum posts are about a game you clearly doesn`t like.

 

 

Aragon100

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.

You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

Jesus you sound like a bitter man,as all you do is complain. Just take a look for yourself, all your recent forum posts are about a game you clearly doesn`t like.

 

 

I liked the game Aventurine promised to make, unfortunately they were lying and i dont like liers.

Making crafting interesting and that way create a economy was what they promised, turned out to be just another lie.

SirBalin

Originally posted by Aragon100

There is no sandbox qualities worth the name in DF UW.

You have to see it as it is, a big PvP-arena.

Lol...worst description of darkfall ever...

gravesworn

We really dont know much about the game yet, soon to be released or not, all these questions are valid but those who can answer are keeping a tight lid on it all. Makes me think they are not ready to launch on the 12th but I could be wrong.

Paragus1

Politics and player-driven content are probably the best examples of sandbox-like features the game has.  The thing is that a lot of players may never experience things like this if they don't put themselves into a position to do so.   If you pick a clan and immersse yourself you are for more likely to see a lot more of what this game has that other games do not.   If you just run around and kill people without any understanding of what is going on in the world as a whole, understanding the conquest and rivalries betweent he various clans, and who controls what geographically, it is easy to see it as a deathmatch without purpose.

bunnyhopper

OP, perhaps you should tell us what you think makes for a sandbox mmorpg and then I'll let you know if Darkfall has/had those features.

 

Before you do I'll list a few myself...

 

The game world should be open, non instanced and non zoned (or at least as much as possible). Check.

Player progression should be open and skill based. Check.

The player should be able to follow a variety of playstyle types. Check.

There should be player created meta roles. Check.

The players should be able to impact upon the actual game world, long term. Check.

Emphasis on player politics and territory control. Check.

Non instanced player housing. Check.

Player villages. Check.

Most items in game craftable. Check.

More emphasis on player crafting over looting (outside of resources/mats). Check.

Non centralized AH. Check.

Regional player vendors. Check.

Resource control vital. Check.

Exploration. Check.

All playstyles types on the same game world map. Check.

As little as possible artificial restrictions placed upon player interactions. Check.

 

It's no EVE and it is highly pvp centric, but it's a sandbox mmo (going on Darkfall here given Unholy Wars is not out).

 

IB4 the same old haters.... oh too late.

Lizardone

The word "sandbox" is a marketing gimmick we are used to hear these days. It's like the "smart" word used in many products. I guess Darkfall is called a "sandbox" MMO because you can build siege and affect the political map via massive battles. I am assuming the political map in Darkfall:UW is persistent. Otherwise, the game may be called a semi-sandbox or "sandboxy" MMO.

 

 

skamper

"Sandbox" and "themepark" are pathetic words generated by small minded people. These are people who can only think in binary terms, such as "right or wrong" "black and white" "republican and democrat" and so on.

wrekognize

The fact that you're not stuck on some chain of quests is a big one.

 

Players build the cities they capture. Players destroy the buildings/walls made by others. They have to be rebuilt with resources gathered in the world. Seems pretty sandboxish to me.

 

..

thinktank001

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

OP, perhaps you should tell us what you think makes for a sandbox mmorpg and then I'll let you know if Darkfall has/had those features.

 

I don't disagree with your opinion, but the original version had many of those features designed so rigid it would be hard to call them sandbox elements, and the rest were so poorly implemented that they were just flat out not fun, and I don't see that changing much with UW, since everything will be supporting the " fast paced pvp ".

Badaboom

I was the main person involved (as was Jonah-fatality) in organizing darkfalls first race war on nov11, 2010. It was on the NA server. It was spotlighted and supported by the gms and hundreds of people participated.  All races had a champion and rode battle horns and everyone else rode their race mount.  

stealthbr

1.) How is the game's crafting system? What types of items can you craft? Can you customize items to any extent? Are there varying qualities of the same item? Does the actual process of crafting an item have any depth? Can you, as a player, stand out from the rest for having exceptional crafts?

2.) How is the game's gathering system? What kinds of things can you gather? Are there region-based resource nodes? Are there varying qualities of resource nodes? Are resources depletable?

3.) Is there farming? Can you grow crops, establish farms, etc.?

4.) Can you write books, letters, newspapers, etc.?

5.) Are there any art-related activities such as painting, playing music, acting, etc.?

6.) Can you interact with NPC's and befriend them to perhaps gain access to something?

7.) Can you decorate your house and/or village? Can you place statues, monuments, etc.?

8.) Are there puzzles, traps, locked doors/chests, secret passageways etc.? Can you make any of these as a player?

9.) Is there any form of archeology? Can you dig up lost relics or go treasure hunting?

10.) Is there item decay for a healthy relationship between supply and demand?

11.) Are there trade ports, harbors, and commerce hubs that are naturally better for merchants?

12.) Can you tame wild animals? Can you breed animals?

13.) Is there a law system? What is it like? Can you place bounties on someone's head?

14) Is there cooking? Do you need to eat or sleep?

15.) Is there fishing?

16.) Are there mounts that are necessary for carrying large amounts of cargo, like ships or caravans? Can you steal these?

17.) Are there trade routes and regional markets?

18.) Can you raise families?

19.) Can you have NPC helpers, like ones that harvest, trade, or guard for you?

20.) Is there burglary, theft, vandalism, etc.?

21.) Are there religions, deities, churches, etc.? Can you form pacts, establish cults, etc.?

22.) With the new role system, if you are currently using a warrior role, does that mean you can't use magic-like or scout-like abilities? AKA, is there no multi-classing?

23.) Are there NPC societies, where NPC's actually do things to maintain their establishments?

24.) Is there wildlife in the game? Can one become a hunter?

25.) Are there campfires, tents, etc.? Are there any benefits to using them?

26.) Is there a weather system and a day/night that affect the world in significant ways?

27.) Are there taverns, bars, etc.?

28.) Are there hidden skills or abilities that one can only learn by exploring the world or talking to certain NPC's?

29.) Is there gear for other professions, like aprons for cooking, robes for diplomatic encounters, etc.?

30.) Do monsters just stand around or can they grow in numbers and potentially invade and conquer a town?

31.) Can you interact with objects in the game world? How so?

32.) Are there any carrying capacity limits?

33.) Does gear impose any condition upon the player, like heavy armor making one slower?

34.) Is the death of a leader (guild master) meaningful? Can an assassination attempt potentially destabilize a guild or do they simply re-equip themselves if they die?

35.) Is lore an important aspect of the game? Can you interact with notable figures from a race? Do quests take lore into account? Can you learn of the game's lore through in-game items like books? Are there any real conflicts or encounters going on between the races?

36.) Is magic treated as a list of abilities or can you weave and experiment with it to potentially unveil new effects?

DarthRaiden

Originally posted by stealthbr

1.) How is the game's crafting system?  Shallow

What types of items can you craft?  Armor, weapons, potions, siege equipment (limited at launch) and ships (limited at launch)

Can you customize items to any extent? by using better quality of rare metal you get higher ranked weapons (and armor), DF1 enchanting but not sure if enchanting is in DF:UW

Are there varying qualities of the same item?  difference is rank r0 - r80 in steps of 10, but not much influence on the resulting range of the ttributes and speed cant be changed for example

Does the actual process of crafting an item have any depth? nope

Can you, as a player, stand out from the rest for having exceptional crafts? nope

2.) How is the game's gathering system? swing at the resource to gather with a chance of fail

What kinds of things can you gather? herbs, fish, stone, iron and more valuable and rare kind  of metal

Are there region-based resource nodes? no

Are there varying qualities of resource nodes? no, wood is wood , iron is iron

Are resources depletable? yes but refill again

3.) Is there farming?  nope

Can you grow crops, establish farms, etc.? nope

4.) Can you write books, letters, newspapers, etc.? nope

5.) Are there any art-related activities such as painting, playing music, acting, etc.? nope

6.) Can you interact with NPC's and befriend them to perhaps gain access to something? nope

7.) Can you decorate your house and/or village? Can you place statues, monuments, etc.? random rare drops for chaos chest  let you decorate your house on pre-choosen spots and according to pre chosen layouts

8.) Are there puzzles, traps, locked doors/chests, secret passageways etc.? Can you make any of these as a player? nope (they promised traps on dungeons with UW)

9.) Is there any form of archeology? nope

Can you dig up lost relics or go treasure hunting? nope, there is a treasure map -> treasure dig-up mechanic

10.) Is there item decay for a healthy relationship between supply and demand? there is item decay

11.) Are there trade ports, harbors, and commerce hubs that are naturally better for merchants? nope

12.) Can you tame wild animals? nope

Can you breed animals? nope

13.) Is there a law system? nope

What is it like? Can you place bounties on someone's head? nope, nope

14) Is there cooking?  yes, consumarables add temp bonus

Do you need to eat or sleep? nope

15.) Is there fishing? yep

16.) Are there mounts that are necessary for carrying large amounts of cargo, like ships or caravans? nope

Can you steal these?  kill and loot  (to get the figurine which is the mount or ship in the unspawned form in bagpack)

17.) Are there trade routes and regional markets? nope and nope

18.) Can you raise families? nope

19.) Can you have NPC helpers, like ones that harvest, trade, or guard for you? nope

20.) Is there burglary, theft, vandalism, etc.? nope

21.) Are there religions, deities, churches, etc.? Can you form pacts, establish cults, etc.? nope and nope

22.) With the new role system, if you are currently using a warrior role, does that mean you can't use magic-like or scout-like abilities? AKA, is there no multi-classing? roles are no classes, choose to specialise and if you dont like choose something else and wait for the small cooldown for the changes to take effect, everyone has access to all crafting and all basic skills

23.) Are there NPC societies, where NPC's actually do things to maintain their establishments? nope

24.) Is there wildlife in the game?  monsters

Can one become a hunter? kill monsters for loot

25.) Are there campfires, tents, etc.? nope

Are there any benefits to using them? nope

26.) Is there a weather system and a day/night that affect the world in significant ways? there is but no influence so, nope

27.) Are there taverns, bars, etc.? nope

28.) Are there hidden skills or abilities that one can only learn by exploring the world or talking to certain NPC's? nope

29.) Is there gear for other professions, like aprons for cooking, robes for diplomatic encounters, etc.? nope

30.) Do monsters just stand around or can they grow in numbers and potentially invade and conquer a town? nope

31.) Can you interact with objects in the game world? nope 

How so? only at the banks and crafting stations and clan stone if you want to add something

32.) Are there any carrying capacity limits? yep

33.) Does gear impose any condition upon the player, like heavy armor making one slower? dunno about UW cause they introduced inertia but in classic DF nope, except of course armor has defense vs attribbutes etc

34.) Is the death of a leader (guild master) meaningful? nope

Can an assassination attempt potentially destabilize a guild or do they simply re-equip themselves if they die? nope, everyone is equal on chances at  the battlefield

35.) Is lore an important aspect of the game?  nope

Can you interact with notable figures from a race? nope

Do quests take lore into account? almost no one do  mission if they arent for gold

  Can you learn of the game's lore through in-game items like books? nope

Are there any real conflicts or encounters going on between the races? it was but not anymore all races in peace

36.) Is magic treated as a list of abilities or can you weave and experiment with it to potentially unveil new effects? list of abilities

 

mjmadskillz

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by stealthbr

1.) How is the game's crafting system?  Shallow

What types of items can you craft?  Armor, weapons, potions, siege equipment (limited at launch) and ships (limited at launch)

Can you customize items to any extent? by using better quality of rare metal you get higher ranked weapons (and armor), DF1 enchanting but not sure if enchanting is in DF:UW

Are there varying qualities of the same item?  difference is rank r0 - r80 in steps of 10, but not much influence on the resulting range of the ttributes and speed cant be changed for example

Does the actual process of crafting an item have any depth? nope

Can you, as a player, stand out from the rest for having exceptional crafts? nope

2.) How is the game's gathering system? swing at the resource to gather with a chance of fail

What kinds of things can you gather? herbs, fish, stone, iron and more valuable and rare kind  of metal

Are there region-based resource nodes? no

Are there varying qualities of resource nodes? no, wood is wood , iron is iron

Are resources depletable? yes but refill again

3.) Is there farming?  nope

Can you grow crops, establish farms, etc.? nope

4.) Can you write books, letters, newspapers, etc.? nope

5.) Are there any art-related activities such as painting, playing music, acting, etc.? nope

6.) Can you interact with NPC's and befriend them to perhaps gain access to something? nope

7.) Can you decorate your house and/or village? Can you place statues, monuments, etc.? random rare drops for chaos chest  let you decorate your house on pre-choosen spots and according to pre chosen layouts

8.) Are there puzzles, traps, locked doors/chests, secret passageways etc.? Can you make any of these as a player? nope (they promised traps on dungeons with UW)

9.) Is there any form of archeology? nope

Can you dig up lost relics or go treasure hunting? nope, there is a treasure map -> treasure dig-up mechanic

10.) Is there item decay for a healthy relationship between supply and demand? there is item decay

11.) Are there trade ports, harbors, and commerce hubs that are naturally better for merchants? nope

12.) Can you tame wild animals? nope

Can you breed animals? nope

13.) Is there a law system? nope

What is it like? Can you place bounties on someone's head? nope, nope

14) Is there cooking?  yes, consumarables add temp bonus

Do you need to eat or sleep? nope

15.) Is there fishing? yep

16.) Are there mounts that are necessary for carrying large amounts of cargo, like ships or caravans? nope

Can you steal these?  kill and loot  (to get the figurine which is the mount or ship in the unspawned form in bagpack)

17.) Are there trade routes and regional markets? nope and nope

18.) Can you raise families? nope

19.) Can you have NPC helpers, like ones that harvest, trade, or guard for you? nope

20.) Is there burglary, theft, vandalism, etc.? nope

21.) Are there religions, deities, churches, etc.? Can you form pacts, establish cults, etc.? nope and nope

22.) With the new role system, if you are currently using a warrior role, does that mean you can't use magic-like or scout-like abilities? AKA, is there no multi-classing? roles are no classes, choose to specialise and if you dont like choose something else and wait for the small cooldown for the changes to take effect, everyone has access to all crafting and all basic skills

23.) Are there NPC societies, where NPC's actually do things to maintain their establishments? nope

24.) Is there wildlife in the game?  monsters

Can one become a hunter? kill monsters for loot

25.) Are there campfires, tents, etc.? nope

Are there any benefits to using them? nope

26.) Is there a weather system and a day/night that affect the world in significant ways? there is but no influence so, nope

27.) Are there taverns, bars, etc.? nope

28.) Are there hidden skills or abilities that one can only learn by exploring the world or talking to certain NPC's? nope

29.) Is there gear for other professions, like aprons for cooking, robes for diplomatic encounters, etc.? nope

30.) Do monsters just stand around or can they grow in numbers and potentially invade and conquer a town? nope

31.) Can you interact with objects in the game world? nope 

How so? only at the banks and crafting stations and clan stone if you want to add something

32.) Are there any carrying capacity limits? yep

33.) Does gear impose any condition upon the player, like heavy armor making one slower? dunno about UW cause they introduced inertia but in classic DF nope, except of course armor has defense vs attribbutes etc

34.) Is the death of a leader (guild master) meaningful? nope

Can an assassination attempt potentially destabilize a guild or do they simply re-equip themselves if they die? nope, everyone is equal on chances at  the battlefield

35.) Is lore an important aspect of the game?  nope

Can you interact with notable figures from a race? nope

Do quests take lore into account? almost no one do  mission if they arent for gold

  Can you learn of the game's lore through in-game items like books? nope

Are there any real conflicts or encounters going on between the races? it was but not anymore all races in peace

36.) Is magic treated as a list of abilities or can you weave and experiment with it to potentially unveil new effects? list of abilities

 

this is all speculation. All these things may or may not be in game. Help yourself by reading the blog instead of asking people who seem to know everything about a game they never played.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/

Uhwop

Darkfall is more like a clan warfare pvp MMO, that is sandbox lite, as appose to a "sandbox" mmo. 

I don't think that anygame where the developers goal is for you to join a clan and go to war over territory with other clans is the same kind of a sandbox game as EVE. 

Is darkfall a sandbox?  sure, it has sandbox elements, like freeform character development, on use skilling, the ability to craft everything, but is the game about being a sandbox?  No, DF:UW, just like DF is about joining a clan and going to war with other clans. 

Is DF:UW going to be a sandbox like EVE is a sandbox?  Not at all.  Totally different types of sandboxes. 

DF:UW is more like Shadowbane than UO. 

DF:UW will not be anymore tallored to the non pvper than DF was. 

stealthbr

Thanks for the answers. It seems Darkfall is not the kind of game I am looking for. Anyone know if there is a more sandboxy title out there that isn't EVE (not a fan of the skill training, combat system, ui, and travelling in that game)?

GrayKodiak

Originally posted by stealthbr
Thanks for the answers. It seems Darkfall is not the kind of game I am looking for. Anyone know if there is a more sandboxy title out there that isn't EVE (not a fan of the skill training, combat system, ui, and travelling in that game)?

Mabinogi?

Kaminaxius

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by stealthbr

1.) How is the game's crafting system?  Shallow

What types of items can you craft?  Armor, weapons, potions, siege equipment (limited at launch) and ships (limited at launch)

Can you customize items to any extent? by using better quality of rare metal you get higher ranked weapons (and armor), DF1 enchanting but not sure if enchanting is in DF:UW

Are there varying qualities of the same item?  difference is rank r0 - r80 in steps of 10, but not much influence on the resulting range of the ttributes and speed cant be changed for example

Does the actual process of crafting an item have any depth? nope

Can you, as a player, stand out from the rest for having exceptional crafts? nope

2.) How is the game's gathering system? swing at the resource to gather with a chance of fail

What kinds of things can you gather? herbs, fish, stone, iron and more valuable and rare kind  of metal

Are there region-based resource nodes? no

Are there varying qualities of resource nodes? no, wood is wood , iron is iron

Are resources depletable? yes but refill again

3.) Is there farming?  nope

Can you grow crops, establish farms, etc.? nope

4.) Can you write books, letters, newspapers, etc.? nope

5.) Are there any art-related activities such as painting, playing music, acting, etc.? nope

6.) Can you interact with NPC's and befriend them to perhaps gain access to something? nope

7.) Can you decorate your house and/or village? Can you place statues, monuments, etc.? random rare drops for chaos chest  let you decorate your house on pre-choosen spots and according to pre chosen layouts

8.) Are there puzzles, traps, locked doors/chests, secret passageways etc.? Can you make any of these as a player? nope (they promised traps on dungeons with UW)

9.) Is there any form of archeology? nope

Can you dig up lost relics or go treasure hunting? nope, there is a treasure map -> treasure dig-up mechanic

10.) Is there item decay for a healthy relationship between supply and demand? there is item decay

11.) Are there trade ports, harbors, and commerce hubs that are naturally better for merchants? nope

12.) Can you tame wild animals? nope

Can you breed animals? nope

13.) Is there a law system? nope

What is it like? Can you place bounties on someone's head? nope, nope

14) Is there cooking?  yes, consumarables add temp bonus

Do you need to eat or sleep? nope

15.) Is there fishing? yep

16.) Are there mounts that are necessary for carrying large amounts of cargo, like ships or caravans? nope

Can you steal these?  kill and loot  (to get the figurine which is the mount or ship in the unspawned form in bagpack)

17.) Are there trade routes and regional markets? nope and nope

18.) Can you raise families? nope

19.) Can you have NPC helpers, like ones that harvest, trade, or guard for you? nope

20.) Is there burglary, theft, vandalism, etc.? nope

21.) Are there religions, deities, churches, etc.? Can you form pacts, establish cults, etc.? nope and nope

22.) With the new role system, if you are currently using a warrior role, does that mean you can't use magic-like or scout-like abilities? AKA, is there no multi-classing? roles are no classes, choose to specialise and if you dont like choose something else and wait for the small cooldown for the changes to take effect, everyone has access to all crafting and all basic skills

23.) Are there NPC societies, where NPC's actually do things to maintain their establishments? nope

24.) Is there wildlife in the game?  monsters

Can one become a hunter? kill monsters for loot

25.) Are there campfires, tents, etc.? nope

Are there any benefits to using them? nope

26.) Is there a weather system and a day/night that affect the world in significant ways? there is but no influence so, nope

27.) Are there taverns, bars, etc.? nope

28.) Are there hidden skills or abilities that one can only learn by exploring the world or talking to certain NPC's? nope

29.) Is there gear for other professions, like aprons for cooking, robes for diplomatic encounters, etc.? nope

30.) Do monsters just stand around or can they grow in numbers and potentially invade and conquer a town? nope

31.) Can you interact with objects in the game world? nope 

How so? only at the banks and crafting stations and clan stone if you want to add something

32.) Are there any carrying capacity limits? yep

33.) Does gear impose any condition upon the player, like heavy armor making one slower? dunno about UW cause they introduced inertia but in classic DF nope, except of course armor has defense vs attribbutes etc

34.) Is the death of a leader (guild master) meaningful? nope

Can an assassination attempt potentially destabilize a guild or do they simply re-equip themselves if they die? nope, everyone is equal on chances at  the battlefield

35.) Is lore an important aspect of the game?  nope

Can you interact with notable figures from a race? nope

Do quests take lore into account? almost no one do  mission if they arent for gold

  Can you learn of the game's lore through in-game items like books? nope

Are there any real conflicts or encounters going on between the races? it was but not anymore all races in peace

36.) Is magic treated as a list of abilities or can you weave and experiment with it to potentially unveil new effects? list of abilities

 

WHY do you keep posting on these forums? you have no clue about the features and yet you keep posting innacurate information about it.

@OP please i recommend you heading to the official darkfall forums http://forums.darkfallonline.com/index.php and ask any questions there on the public boards. This sub-board seems filled with angry ragers and trolls who find it funny to post innacurate information about the game to scare people away.

GrayKodiak

Originally posted by Kaminaxius

Originally posted by DarthRaiden
 

WHY do you keep posting on these forums? you have no clue about the features and yet you keep posting innacurate information about it.

@OP please i recommend you heading to the official darkfall forums http://forums.darkfallonline.com/index.php and ask any questions there on the public boards. This sub-board seems filled with angry ragers and trolls who find it funny to post innacurate information about the game to scare people away.

It might be helpfull to point out where his answers are wrong, rather than a blanket statement about how he doesn't have c lue.