OP, just curious, what gives you the impression that it's pay 2 win? I don't think it is, sure, buying equipment with money and subbing gets you certs and levels faster but in the end a non paying player can have the same things that you paid for.
OP, just curious, what gives you the impression that it's pay 2 win? I don't think it is, sure, buying equipment with money and subbing gets you certs and levels faster but in the end a non paying player can have the same things that you paid for.
On the PS2 forums the kids are all upset that its could take them a week or two to buy a sidegrade gun in game, so those who purchased said guns for $7 ($3.50 on sale) have paid to win....because to them, those guns are actually better by a lot...when in reality there is almost no noticable difference.
I could see the argument for vehicle weapons being somewhat pay to win, despite you can easily get them in game for no money.
These derpy kids really assume that hundreds of people are going to work a full time job for free so they can play a game for free i guess. Future looks bright doesnt it?
I've read a lot of info on the forums, and it fits my definition of P2W, which is not good for a PvP game, especially one with known flaws/bugs/hacks. F2P in my opinion also shows lack of confidence for a title.
If SOE were smart, they'd offer options to appeal to more customers. Offer a gold server with sub and no cash shop. I'd sign up for that. If the server doesn't pay for itself, shut it down. No big loss.
Less options = less customers. I doubt I am the only one uninterested in the F2P model.
Because when I want to find an unbiased, logical opinion on a game, I go to the forums. Obviously, there would NEVER be a bunch of crybabies on the forums who have to blow up every minute detail.
It's not P2W. Play a game before you declare it as such. I do just fine and I just play Assault with the starter rifle on the Vanu side. People cry when they cant dominate a game that involves 2000 people on an island because they cant Call of Duty their way through it.
Originally posted by Crunchy222 Originally posted by TeknoBugOP, just curious, what gives you the impression that it's pay 2 win? I don't think it is, sure, buying equipment with money and subbing gets you certs and levels faster but in the end a non paying player can have the same things that you paid for.
On the PS2 forums the kids are all upset that its could take them a week or two to buy a sidegrade gun in game, so those who purchased said guns for $7 ($3.50 on sale) have paid to win....because to them, those guns are actually better by a lot...when in reality there is almost no noticable difference.
I could see the argument for vehicle weapons being somewhat pay to win, despite you can easily get them in game for no money.
These derpy kids really assume that hundreds of people are going to work a full time job for free so they can play a game for free i guess. Future looks bright doesnt it?
I've used alot of weapons on all 3 factions (many through the trial) and I have to say the cheap ones (like the 100 cert or 250 cert) upgrade guns are actually good. I've been liking the GD-22S and AC-X11 carbine for NC and the Equinox burst for VS. ~200 certs only take a couple hours if you know how to rack up certs *cough*healrepair*cough*. The only thing I spent SC on so far was the weapon starter pack for my new toon I made after I quit playing my first toon on Connery due to horrible lag and such. Many of the upgrade weapons for some of the vehicles are fairly cheap too and are worth it, I'm working on decking out my Lib.
Just to clarify for those who may not know. There is nothing on the store that helps you aim, I think DanitaKusor is referring to illicit aimbots here; which is pretty funny actually
I've read a lot of info on the forums, and it fits my definition of P2W, which is not good for a PvP game, especially one with known flaws/bugs/hacks. F2P in my opinion also shows lack of confidence for a title.
If SOE were smart, they'd offer options to appeal to more customers. Offer a gold server with sub and no cash shop. I'd sign up for that. If the server doesn't pay for itself, shut it down. No big loss.
Less options = less customers. I doubt I am the only one uninterested in the F2P model.
People cry when they cant dominate a game that involves 2000 people on an island because they cant Call of Duty their way through it.
Except that you can and this game is in no way better than COD atm.
Originally posted by ShakyMo It's even less p2w than bf3 as most of the real upgrades must be earned and can't be paid for with cash.
But well done on spotting the shill guys.
XP boosts are purchased with real cash and stack with the subscription xp boosts....more cash.
Without the boosts xp/cert gain is very slow and the gap between paying players and the cannon fodder grows by the second.
A paying player can buy station cash and buy a superior weapon worth 1000 certs in a second, that might take a player with no boosts weeks of play to acquire and while they are saving certs, the paying players is spending them on improvements.
This is fine and it's a clever model, but it is P2W.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Heavy PS1 vet here; I love everything about PS2's easy to understand cash-shop.
My defintion of p2w is not yours. I believe F2P's should offer shortcuts to paying players. PS2 does not offer subbers more health, better shield rates and ammo capacity--so this is okay. a F2P'er can go toe-to-toe with a subber and have an equal advantage; that is where this game isn't P2W.
And we should what? Cry ? Bye! bye! I didn't spend 1$ (only alpha squad) and my kiilling score is 70%-30%, i just can't uderstand where are p2w players
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.
Now if you sub you earn certs faster.
But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.
Now if you sub you earn certs faster.
But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone
BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.
Now if you sub you earn certs faster.
But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone
As I said; Shortcuts. These items are still available to players using in-game currency. Had these been exclusive to physical currency; it'd be considered pay-to-win in my book.
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.
Now if you sub you earn certs faster.
But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone
BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing. Now if you sub you earn certs faster. But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone
An average player can rack up 30 certs per HALF an hour, it isn't hard to do. The average player with CoD in mind will barely get any certs if he's going to be sniping on hill sall day.
Oh and rocket pods IMO are the only severe imbalancing issue at the moment, lib guns aren't that expensive, I bought a couple already and they're only 100 certs each and upgraded them a little, the Zepher is bound to be nerfed soon anyways- all the rocket pod spammers are getting tired of being killed by 20+ AA MAXs so they're going with Libs now.
The moment players are breaking down certs per hour, is the moment they shouldn't be playing the game.
I play the game with a 200 man outfit, and completely enjoy the game. I don't bother looking at my cert gain. I just log on each day, check my certs and look for viable upgrades.
lol OP I didn't even read past I have never played the game but its pay 2 win.
Your post is ignorant you haven't played it but judge it based on what you read or think you know. Well you're wrong. The fact is your opinion was already formed without even seeing what you can buy in the cash shop because you say you have no desire to play a f2p game. A company should invets 20-30 mil + in a new game charge nothing for it and just let you play it for free with no cash shop ? If you ever form an MMO company please warn your investors of your brilliant business model.
Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.
Now if you sub you earn certs faster.
But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone
BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour
silly minded player
kdr is not everything
And you completely missed what he was trying to say. He only mentioned that his kdr isn't that good and he still makes 60 certs an hour.
All right, for ANYONE who hasn't made up his mind yet, understand this, coming from an August Beta tester.
If ANYONE is buying guns, is because hes smart enough to save those certs he has to invest in the certification system which in reality fortifies their characters AND the guns he bought. Or the ones he didn't. Jesus, for an example, Im a light assault and I bought some guns. The AC-X11 isn't more powerful then the stock gun (AF-19 Mercenary). Yes, it hits like a GOD DANM TRUCK, but has 10 less bullets then the stock weapon, LESS Accuracy, and HIGHER vertical recoil.
As a matter of fact, there are a LOT of subscribers and Station cash buyers that use those stock weapons because they are superior in every way compared to others. TR and VS can tell you a lot about that. 5 out 8 TR LAs use the TRAC5 and 7 out of 8 TR HA use the Carv 9. In the VS, Almost EVERY HA uses the Orion and LAs use the Solstice. These 4 weaposn are Stock weapons and they work wonderfully. I bought my AC-X11 because I didn't want to waste 1000 certs to obtain it without payment (and believe me, it ain't as hard to get as one thinks, people just need to understand better the game in order to see how to farm certs faster).
A PAY2WIN system would be to have a weapon that is clearly a superior weapon for cash money sale only. If you want to get it, you can play A LOT and still don't spend a dime. Yes, for people who are new to the game, it WILL take a while to understand everything and be a better player, but once you get the hang of it, you'll see that.
I'm an average player, with an outfit of my own making, with a lot of good people. We are all average players, but due to the fact that I understand the game better, I can make everyone understand what needs to be done and go after objectives that earn quite some Certificates. I normally do between 30~50 in 1 hour of gameplay, between 4~5 gameplay a day. That 150~250 certs a day. And I'm not even a very good shot.
So tell me, what do you think is more practical? To actually go and spend a 1000 certs for 1 single weapon (one you might later find out isn't a waepon you like that much) or spend some dollars (BTW, tripple Cash 21st december) and use ALL those certs in your payed unlocks?
I'd never spend a certification to buy a 1000 certifications weapon, for they are a pain to get. But that doesn't mean you'll be useless with a stock weapon. You kill with those high leveled players as well, quite easy also. And once you ammount those certs, you'll see that stock weapon becoming EASIER to use, not Better to kill, for YOU are getting better at killing.
So stop this BS of Pay 2 Win. People who are buying stuff know what to buy thanks to beta and they are easily counterable. Im saying this, not because SOE payed me, but because is with MORE players that the game is fun. Damn, I get lots of kill with my Stock VS HA, due to smart playing. THIS is what makes the difference in this game. If you expect to RAMBO anything, you're gonna have a bad time. If you learn the game, you won't have to spend a dime in it and will have a blast.
I have not purchased anything with money, I have only purchased a red dot for my starter weapon with certs and I am having a blast! I am sitting on almost 1000 cert points to spend but can not decide which class to use them on since three of them are so much fun to play.
I dont feel this game is pay to win in any way, shape or form. I do feel this game caters to skill and the more skilled players can specialize in certs that fit their playstyle. I think skill should be rewarded and this game does it in spades. No cookie cutter classes, you can be what you want and spending money does not give you any real advantage. I kill people twice my BR level and with purchased weapons. I see no advantage to using real money in this game.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Originally posted by William12 lol OP I didn't even read past I have never played the game but its pay 2 win. Your post is ignorant you haven't played it but judge it based on what you read or think you know. Well you're wrong. The fact is your opinion was already formed without even seeing what you can buy in the cash shop because you say you have no desire to play a f2p game. A company should invets 20-30 mil + in a new game charge nothing for it and just let you play it for free with no cash shop ? If you ever form an MMO company please warn your investors of your brilliant business model.
[mod edit] There is nothing in this game that is pay to win. When they start letting people buy certs with real money then I will gladly say it has turned into a pay to win game. The real issue that I think people are complaining about is that you can buy weapons and such with station cash now where as the f2p person has to wait till he gets enough certs together to be able to afford one. Is it an advantage? I think I would say it slightly is. The only real advantage is the person that bought the item can use his certs to help make it better where as the person that saved up to buy the item with certs now has to build up more certs to make it better. Pay to win? No. Pay to get some things quicker, yes.
Comments
But well done on spotting the shill guys.
OP, just curious, what gives you the impression that it's pay 2 win? I don't think it is, sure, buying equipment with money and subbing gets you certs and levels faster but in the end a non paying player can have the same things that you paid for.
On the PS2 forums the kids are all upset that its could take them a week or two to buy a sidegrade gun in game, so those who purchased said guns for $7 ($3.50 on sale) have paid to win....because to them, those guns are actually better by a lot...when in reality there is almost no noticable difference.
I could see the argument for vehicle weapons being somewhat pay to win, despite you can easily get them in game for no money.
These derpy kids really assume that hundreds of people are going to work a full time job for free so they can play a game for free i guess. Future looks bright doesnt it?
Because when I want to find an unbiased, logical opinion on a game, I go to the forums. Obviously, there would NEVER be a bunch of crybabies on the forums who have to blow up every minute detail.
It's not P2W. Play a game before you declare it as such. I do just fine and I just play Assault with the starter rifle on the Vanu side. People cry when they cant dominate a game that involves 2000 people on an island because they cant Call of Duty their way through it.
I could see the argument for vehicle weapons being somewhat pay to win, despite you can easily get them in game for no money.
These derpy kids really assume that hundreds of people are going to work a full time job for free so they can play a game for free i guess. Future looks bright doesnt it?
I've used alot of weapons on all 3 factions (many through the trial) and I have to say the cheap ones (like the 100 cert or 250 cert) upgrade guns are actually good. I've been liking the GD-22S and AC-X11 carbine for NC and the Equinox burst for VS. ~200 certs only take a couple hours if you know how to rack up certs *cough*healrepair*cough*. The only thing I spent SC on so far was the weapon starter pack for my new toon I made after I quit playing my first toon on Connery due to horrible lag and such. Many of the upgrade weapons for some of the vehicles are fairly cheap too and are worth it, I'm working on decking out my Lib.
Just to clarify for those who may not know. There is nothing on the store that helps you aim, I think DanitaKusor is referring to illicit aimbots here; which is pretty funny actually
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Except that you can and this game is in no way better than COD atm.
XP boosts are purchased with real cash and stack with the subscription xp boosts....more cash.
Without the boosts xp/cert gain is very slow and the gap between paying players and the cannon fodder grows by the second.
A paying player can buy station cash and buy a superior weapon worth 1000 certs in a second, that might take a player with no boosts weeks of play to acquire and while they are saving certs, the paying players is spending them on improvements.
This is fine and it's a clever model, but it is P2W.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
If you buy an aimbot you will get caught and banned.
It's the custom private hacks that never get found.....so in this case, it's pay to get banned
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Heavy PS1 vet here; I love everything about PS2's easy to understand cash-shop.
My defintion of p2w is not yours. I believe F2P's should offer shortcuts to paying players. PS2 does not offer subbers more health, better shield rates and ammo capacity--so this is okay. a F2P'er can go toe-to-toe with a subber and have an equal advantage; that is where this game isn't P2W.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$
rocket pods = $$
tank guns = $$
rocket launchers = $$
lib gun = $$
these things make you kill alot of players
ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour
then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone
BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour
As I said; Shortcuts. These items are still available to players using in-game currency. Had these been exclusive to physical currency; it'd be considered pay-to-win in my book.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
silly minded player
kdr is not everything
Oh and rocket pods IMO are the only severe imbalancing issue at the moment, lib guns aren't that expensive, I bought a couple already and they're only 100 certs each and upgraded them a little, the Zepher is bound to be nerfed soon anyways- all the rocket pod spammers are getting tired of being killed by 20+ AA MAXs so they're going with Libs now.
The moment players are breaking down certs per hour, is the moment they shouldn't be playing the game.
I play the game with a 200 man outfit, and completely enjoy the game. I don't bother looking at my cert gain. I just log on each day, check my certs and look for viable upgrades.
And im still having a blast.
lol OP I didn't even read past I have never played the game but its pay 2 win.
Your post is ignorant you haven't played it but judge it based on what you read or think you know. Well you're wrong. The fact is your opinion was already formed without even seeing what you can buy in the cash shop because you say you have no desire to play a f2p game. A company should invets 20-30 mil + in a new game charge nothing for it and just let you play it for free with no cash shop ? If you ever form an MMO company please warn your investors of your brilliant business model.
And you completely missed what he was trying to say. He only mentioned that his kdr isn't that good and he still makes 60 certs an hour.
All right, for ANYONE who hasn't made up his mind yet, understand this, coming from an August Beta tester.
If ANYONE is buying guns, is because hes smart enough to save those certs he has to invest in the certification system which in reality fortifies their characters AND the guns he bought. Or the ones he didn't. Jesus, for an example, Im a light assault and I bought some guns. The AC-X11 isn't more powerful then the stock gun (AF-19 Mercenary). Yes, it hits like a GOD DANM TRUCK, but has 10 less bullets then the stock weapon, LESS Accuracy, and HIGHER vertical recoil.
As a matter of fact, there are a LOT of subscribers and Station cash buyers that use those stock weapons because they are superior in every way compared to others. TR and VS can tell you a lot about that. 5 out 8 TR LAs use the TRAC5 and 7 out of 8 TR HA use the Carv 9. In the VS, Almost EVERY HA uses the Orion and LAs use the Solstice. These 4 weaposn are Stock weapons and they work wonderfully. I bought my AC-X11 because I didn't want to waste 1000 certs to obtain it without payment (and believe me, it ain't as hard to get as one thinks, people just need to understand better the game in order to see how to farm certs faster).
A PAY2WIN system would be to have a weapon that is clearly a superior weapon for cash money sale only. If you want to get it, you can play A LOT and still don't spend a dime. Yes, for people who are new to the game, it WILL take a while to understand everything and be a better player, but once you get the hang of it, you'll see that.
I'm an average player, with an outfit of my own making, with a lot of good people. We are all average players, but due to the fact that I understand the game better, I can make everyone understand what needs to be done and go after objectives that earn quite some Certificates. I normally do between 30~50 in 1 hour of gameplay, between 4~5 gameplay a day. That 150~250 certs a day. And I'm not even a very good shot.
So tell me, what do you think is more practical? To actually go and spend a 1000 certs for 1 single weapon (one you might later find out isn't a waepon you like that much) or spend some dollars (BTW, tripple Cash 21st december) and use ALL those certs in your payed unlocks?
I'd never spend a certification to buy a 1000 certifications weapon, for they are a pain to get. But that doesn't mean you'll be useless with a stock weapon. You kill with those high leveled players as well, quite easy also. And once you ammount those certs, you'll see that stock weapon becoming EASIER to use, not Better to kill, for YOU are getting better at killing.
So stop this BS of Pay 2 Win. People who are buying stuff know what to buy thanks to beta and they are easily counterable. Im saying this, not because SOE payed me, but because is with MORE players that the game is fun. Damn, I get lots of kill with my Stock VS HA, due to smart playing. THIS is what makes the difference in this game. If you expect to RAMBO anything, you're gonna have a bad time. If you learn the game, you won't have to spend a dime in it and will have a blast.
Learning. That's what keeps players in PS2.
I use the solstice burst with flash suppressor and 4x scope when spotting / sniping
And the plasma shotgun (the hardest hitting one with the really bad reload time) with laser sight and the better ammo for base assaults
I have not purchased anything with money, I have only purchased a red dot for my starter weapon with certs and I am having a blast! I am sitting on almost 1000 cert points to spend but can not decide which class to use them on since three of them are so much fun to play.
I dont feel this game is pay to win in any way, shape or form. I do feel this game caters to skill and the more skilled players can specialize in certs that fit their playstyle. I think skill should be rewarded and this game does it in spades. No cookie cutter classes, you can be what you want and spending money does not give you any real advantage. I kill people twice my BR level and with purchased weapons. I see no advantage to using real money in this game.
[mod edit] There is nothing in this game that is pay to win. When they start letting people buy certs with real money then I will gladly say it has turned into a pay to win game. The real issue that I think people are complaining about is that you can buy weapons and such with station cash now where as the f2p person has to wait till he gets enough certs together to be able to afford one. Is it an advantage? I think I would say it slightly is. The only real advantage is the person that bought the item can use his certs to help make it better where as the person that saved up to buy the item with certs now has to build up more certs to make it better. Pay to win? No. Pay to get some things quicker, yes.