I played rift, and on the launch tons of "accusations" of it being a "bad wow clone were everywhere". To make a point clear, I never said IT WAS a bad Wow clone, I said it was "only a bad wow clone" (you know, paraphrasing what others have spouted off earlier across several boards) I also Enjoyed Rift, however due to cash constraints at the time I let my sub die. I have yet to "bother" with resubbing as I can simply play many games f2p at this current stage, SWTOR being one of them.
You also know what is funny. Richard Garrett also left the employment of NcSoft becuase of differences of opinnion... Ohh Wait that's right that isn't what happened. People are fired from their job due to "conflicts of interest", Not that I'm being cynical, but in order for EA to grab full reigns of a company they have to "amicably part ways with the prior owners". However like many retail outlets, just becuase a company owns the store does not make all departments "bad or evil" that is entirely dependant on who works in those departments.
Personally I do not see SWTOR as bad. Nor do I see WoW is bad. I will, however, never pick up WoW again, I'd rather play SWTOR till it's dying day then be "forced" to play WoW. WoW is not my cup of tea, end of statement. I understand some people's confusion on the differences, they are there, they may only be cosmetic, but they are there.
I like the Idea of SWTOR going the same route as TSW, however there is so much hatred over the "concept" of swtor that the player bases "percieved" entitlement of what a f2p should be that it simply will not fly as many people will not even try.
What is even more funny is that my prior post consists of several paragraphs about a "cash shop" and 1 paragraph directly referencing SWTOR, and that is the one that people latch on to and "attack". Funny, I defend a companies choice on the f2p model, for good or ill, and "I don't get it".
SWTOR is bad as FACT, EA have admited it, Bioware have admited, the Doctors have left, millions of people quit the game, people have lost their jobs, and plenty of articles not liking aspects of SWTOR like this one, but it does not mean some people will not like it, and that is great, SWTOR is only great on few individual opinions.
It is funny you mention Tabula Rase - you know what happened to it? It got shut down. With EAs lack of attention to SWTOR, and nothing happening to it with content taking a year to get in game, does not bode too well for SWTOR either. It just seems the stretching the little content they have, before it follows Tabula Rasa to the grave.
The reason it did not go B2P like TSW, is so that EA could get as much money as they possibly could from loyal fans, the ones willing to chuck in the dough. They saw the success of F2P from other games, and thought it would do the same for them. I can not see those not wanting to pay $15 which made the game go F2P, end up paying $100s or $1000s in the cash shop.
I did not latch on to the one thing you said, but just quoted the bit i wanted to comment on, the rest would have just been reiterating what I just posted, I had nothing further to add from what I already said.
Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.
As a Matter of fact I do know what happened to Tabula Rasa. I played until the bitter end. I was even attempting to help with the fan based resurection of TR before NcSoft threatened big time action against us if we even dreamed about trying to resurrect it. If NcSoft hadn't "killed it" before, many believe it's time, I would still be playing it. Thanks to Tabula Rasa I got invited to Aion beta, and saw what a wonderfully crappy company NcSoft truly is.
Originally posted by superniceguy
Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.
I'm defending their choice. I've stated, in other threads, that I think the Lotro way of doing things is better/best imho. At the same time I'm defending the choice of people wanting to play/try it without having to "succumb to peer presure" or at least give it a fair shot, as in more than 20 mins. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. EA seems to have satisfied that qualification. As you stated above, they are fixing things, possibly slowly, possibly only minorly, But they are at least taking that first step towards POSSIBLY fixing the game.
However THIS is a thread about the cartel market, not necissarily about the f2p model. While they are linked they are two different issues. I made an observation that people in general feel the need to visciously attack the f2p model, and comments made about it, while suffering semi-personal attacks
Originally posted by superniceguy
That is because you just don't get it, and if you did you would understand why SWTOR is bad.
I understand EA is a greedy nasty company. MOST companies are greedy nasty companies however many put forward the air that they truely care about more than your money. I respect them for being so blatant about it with thier cash grab, I agree with some of their practices, it doesn't mean however that I like the way things are handled. being the way they are I know what to expect instead of investing in a game physically and mentally for the long haul I can truely enjoy my time for what it is. ANY game with a cash shops is a BLATANT attempt to grab cash. in the case of GW2 it is their means of revenue and I feel that is slightly more acceptable, it however does not change the fact that it is a blatant cash grab. To single out a game becuase "X company is greedy" is justt saying that it is ok for a kettle to be black.
If in order to fix the game they need to leech people, then more power to them. If people are willing to spend money on the Cartel shop, that is their business. If they spend to much and the game shuts down, it was their own fault. To call EA evil/Bad when all cash shops are essentially the same is just looking at everythin else with rose colored glasses. If the Cartel goes p2W and that is "bad" then EVERY p2w game is bad. All f2p games have included "basic functionality" and none have promised more than that. There is no "industry standard" there is only what people feel they are entitled to when it comes to a f2p/cash shop model.
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
As a Matter of fact I do know what happened to Tabula Rasa. I played until the bitter end. I was even attempting to help with the fan based resurection of TR before NcSoft threatened big time action against us if we even dreamed about trying to resurrect it. If NcSoft hadn't "killed it" before, many believe it's time, I would still be playing it. Thanks to Tabula Rasa I got invited to Aion beta, and saw what a wonderfully crappy company NcSoft truly is.
Originally posted by superniceguy
Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.
I'm defending their choice. I've stated, in other threads, that I think the Lotro way of doing things is better/best imho. At the same time I'm defending the choice of people wanting to play/try it without having to "succumb to peer presure" or at least give it a fair shot, as in more than 20 mins. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. EA seems to have satisfied that qualification. As you stated above, they are fixing things, possibly slowly, possibly only minorly, But they are at least taking that first step towards POSSIBLY fixing the game.
However THIS is a thread about the cartel market, not necissarily about the f2p model. While they are linked they are two different issues. I made an observation that people in general feel the need to visciously attack the f2p model, and comments made about it, while suffering semi-personal attacks
Originally posted by superniceguy
That is because you just don't get it, and if you did you would understand why SWTOR is bad.
I understand EA is a greedy nasty company. MOST companies are greedy nasty companies however many put forward the air that they truely care about more than your money. I respect them for being so blatant about it with thier cash grab, I agree with some of their practices, it doesn't mean however that I like the way things are handled. being the way they are I know what to expect instead of investing in a game physically and mentally for the long haul I can truely enjoy my time for what it is. ANY game with a cash shops is a BLATANT attempt to grab cash. in the case of GW2 it is their means of revenue and I feel that is slightly more acceptable, it however does not change the fact that it is a blatant cash grab. To single out a game becuase "X company is greedy" is justt saying that it is ok for a kettle to be black.
If in order to fix the game they need to leech people, then more power to them. If people are willing to spend money on the Cartel shop, that is their business. If they spend to much and the game shuts down, it was their own fault. To call EA evil/Bad when all cash shops are essentially the same is just looking at everythin else with rose colored glasses. If the Cartel goes p2W and that is "bad" then EVERY p2w game is bad. All f2p games have included "basic functionality" and none have promised more than that. There is no "industry standard" there is only what people feel they are entitled to when it comes to a f2p/cash shop model.
Maybe it is not you not getting it, maybe it is me not getting what you are getting at, you seem to be going round in circles, saying it is bad one minute then it is good.
All I know is that there are other F2P games worthy of peoples time and money, and if they make it more flexible, and less restrictive, then people would play and pay more. STO is more free to play than SWTOR is, but yet I spend more on STO than SWTOR because it is not restrictive, and makes it more of a viable experience, and you feel spending money on the game better. Perfect World are doing more for the game, hiring more staff, and is showing signs of a decent future, whereas SWTOR is not, although some unkown reason may make STO shut down before SWTOR, as last year Vanguard was looking to be shut down, but then SWG did so first, especially after LA said that both SWG and SWTOR could co-exist.
EA can do whatever they want, but they are not going to get masses into the game AND paying long term, on the F2P model they are using. I can not even buy more char slots and it is blocking me from playing the game. I have already created chars before F2P, and now can not create more chars, and can not do anything.They say they are changing this, but why are they taking so long, and not doing it BEFORE these "slippery slope" items and Life Day rip offs?
Both LOTRO and STO are F2P and put items on the store, PLUS they do events.
I do not think EA is fixing anything, they do not seem to have clue or understanding of why things work. They say you need to follow the WOW model for a successful MMO, so they do, and it flops, and then they see that F2P turns into a success but what most F2P MMOs do is make a game viabe as F2P but also in a subtle way tempt you to sub and not in a way which forces you to sub. All EA are after with this F2P model is to get you to sub, so therefore it is not going to work long term, like the other F2P games that EA have observed to be a success
The reason why millions quit the game is because of lack of content, but when people said they did not want to pay the fee, is because there wasn't enough content to keep playing, so EA takes from this that they need to make it F2P and they also want people to sub, but if they added plenty of content, then people would have subbed, and the fee would not have been an issue, and no need for it to go F2P. EA thinks that people will play the game for free, then sub, but people who bought the game, and played and quit, know exactly what the game is all about, so F2P is not the trick as it does not add the contnet which people are looking for.
Comments
SWTOR is bad as FACT, EA have admited it, Bioware have admited, the Doctors have left, millions of people quit the game, people have lost their jobs, and plenty of articles not liking aspects of SWTOR like this one, but it does not mean some people will not like it, and that is great, SWTOR is only great on few individual opinions.
It is funny you mention Tabula Rase - you know what happened to it? It got shut down. With EAs lack of attention to SWTOR, and nothing happening to it with content taking a year to get in game, does not bode too well for SWTOR either. It just seems the stretching the little content they have, before it follows Tabula Rasa to the grave.
The reason it did not go B2P like TSW, is so that EA could get as much money as they possibly could from loyal fans, the ones willing to chuck in the dough. They saw the success of F2P from other games, and thought it would do the same for them. I can not see those not wanting to pay $15 which made the game go F2P, end up paying $100s or $1000s in the cash shop.
I did not latch on to the one thing you said, but just quoted the bit i wanted to comment on, the rest would have just been reiterating what I just posted, I had nothing further to add from what I already said.
Why defend their F2P when it is obvilously bad? EA have even changed parts of it saying they are listening, because it was bad. If it was not bad they would not change it. By defending it all you are doing is keeping things bad, and preventing more people from bothering with and enjoying the game.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
As a Matter of fact I do know what happened to Tabula Rasa. I played until the bitter end. I was even attempting to help with the fan based resurection of TR before NcSoft threatened big time action against us if we even dreamed about trying to resurrect it. If NcSoft hadn't "killed it" before, many believe it's time, I would still be playing it. Thanks to Tabula Rasa I got invited to Aion beta, and saw what a wonderfully crappy company NcSoft truly is.
I'm defending their choice. I've stated, in other threads, that I think the Lotro way of doing things is better/best imho. At the same time I'm defending the choice of people wanting to play/try it without having to "succumb to peer presure" or at least give it a fair shot, as in more than 20 mins. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. EA seems to have satisfied that qualification. As you stated above, they are fixing things, possibly slowly, possibly only minorly, But they are at least taking that first step towards POSSIBLY fixing the game.
However THIS is a thread about the cartel market, not necissarily about the f2p model. While they are linked they are two different issues. I made an observation that people in general feel the need to visciously attack the f2p model, and comments made about it, while suffering semi-personal attacks
I understand EA is a greedy nasty company. MOST companies are greedy nasty companies however many put forward the air that they truely care about more than your money. I respect them for being so blatant about it with thier cash grab, I agree with some of their practices, it doesn't mean however that I like the way things are handled. being the way they are I know what to expect instead of investing in a game physically and mentally for the long haul I can truely enjoy my time for what it is. ANY game with a cash shops is a BLATANT attempt to grab cash. in the case of GW2 it is their means of revenue and I feel that is slightly more acceptable, it however does not change the fact that it is a blatant cash grab. To single out a game becuase "X company is greedy" is justt saying that it is ok for a kettle to be black.
If in order to fix the game they need to leech people, then more power to them. If people are willing to spend money on the Cartel shop, that is their business. If they spend to much and the game shuts down, it was their own fault. To call EA evil/Bad when all cash shops are essentially the same is just looking at everythin else with rose colored glasses. If the Cartel goes p2W and that is "bad" then EVERY p2w game is bad. All f2p games have included "basic functionality" and none have promised more than that. There is no "industry standard" there is only what people feel they are entitled to when it comes to a f2p/cash shop model.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Maybe it is not you not getting it, maybe it is me not getting what you are getting at, you seem to be going round in circles, saying it is bad one minute then it is good.
All I know is that there are other F2P games worthy of peoples time and money, and if they make it more flexible, and less restrictive, then people would play and pay more. STO is more free to play than SWTOR is, but yet I spend more on STO than SWTOR because it is not restrictive, and makes it more of a viable experience, and you feel spending money on the game better. Perfect World are doing more for the game, hiring more staff, and is showing signs of a decent future, whereas SWTOR is not, although some unkown reason may make STO shut down before SWTOR, as last year Vanguard was looking to be shut down, but then SWG did so first, especially after LA said that both SWG and SWTOR could co-exist.
EA can do whatever they want, but they are not going to get masses into the game AND paying long term, on the F2P model they are using. I can not even buy more char slots and it is blocking me from playing the game. I have already created chars before F2P, and now can not create more chars, and can not do anything.They say they are changing this, but why are they taking so long, and not doing it BEFORE these "slippery slope" items and Life Day rip offs?
Both LOTRO and STO are F2P and put items on the store, PLUS they do events.
I do not think EA is fixing anything, they do not seem to have clue or understanding of why things work. They say you need to follow the WOW model for a successful MMO, so they do, and it flops, and then they see that F2P turns into a success but what most F2P MMOs do is make a game viabe as F2P but also in a subtle way tempt you to sub and not in a way which forces you to sub. All EA are after with this F2P model is to get you to sub, so therefore it is not going to work long term, like the other F2P games that EA have observed to be a success
The reason why millions quit the game is because of lack of content, but when people said they did not want to pay the fee, is because there wasn't enough content to keep playing, so EA takes from this that they need to make it F2P and they also want people to sub, but if they added plenty of content, then people would have subbed, and the fee would not have been an issue, and no need for it to go F2P. EA thinks that people will play the game for free, then sub, but people who bought the game, and played and quit, know exactly what the game is all about, so F2P is not the trick as it does not add the contnet which people are looking for.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012