Why is it rocket science to allow players to give out quests?
Why can't questing serve more of a purpose than getting a chunk of exp and loot?
Because most player generated stuff is crap.
thats why there are no good videos on youtube, and why its so unpopular. its so overrun with subpar user content, that nobody can find any good videos after hours of scouring the service.
/sarcasm
Youtube is overrun with subpar user content, by far the majority is crap.
Most of the good videos are professionally done. The amateur ones by and large are crap, it is the one out of a million that gets popular and is entertaining, but when there are 100 million a day, that still leaves lots to choose from over time.
edit - I did read one stat sometime that said that something like 100 million videos were watched a day and around 2-3 billion per month, and almost 100 million new videos made per month.
edit - actually change that. 3 billion hits per day, 48 hours of new video per minute. So yes by far far far, the majority is complete crap.
that his & your complaint is bullshit. %99 of *what we watch* on youtube is wonderful & entertaining stuff.
[mod edit]
No. You missed the point. His point was addressing why not give players the ability to put out quests - because most is crap. Straight forward, and admittely opinion but straight forwards.
Youtube is a good example of this. They have waht 100 popular videos a day which includes the professionally made videos and music videos. And they have a 15 minute time limit (around there anyway). Yet they have 48 hours of video loaded per minute.
Crunch the numbers. Every day there is 69120 hours of video loaded or about 4,147,200 minutes of video but only about 1500 minutes actually becomes popular. Not going to get into the argument that popular is not entertaining because by and large that is crap too. Yes entertainment is subjective however there are common interests and tastes which is why something becomes popular and on a viral media like youtube good entertainment becomes popular pretty darn quick.
So no 99% of what we watch is typically not wonderfull and entertaining. It is garbage, which is why he doesn't support people having quests
My own opinion, I've done it in the past, making quests both formal for games that support it, and just in game chat for those that didn't. I've also played a lot of them and yes most of them are garbage. I would still like to do it, however just like youtube we can reduce the amount of time it takes to find a good one with some sort of ranking system.
If youtube didn't have that system it would take hours, days, weeks to find something good.
[mod edit]
Once again. No you missed the point. We don't watch garbage. We don't play garbage. He doesn't feel that giving players ability to make quests because most is garbage. How much simpler can that be explained to you.
By far the majority will be garbage. Thats his point.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I like the OP's idea and have thought about it myself. Maybe a system where the person can offer up a portion of their xp and gold for some good or task. In this case it could be bring me 5 pelts or kill 5 players, or what ever. It would make for more engaging questing and the quest would always change. There would just have to be a middle man system to help with confirming the deals.
Why is it rocket science to allow players to give out quests?
Why can't questing serve more of a purpose than getting a chunk of exp and loot?
Because most player generated stuff is crap.
thats why there are no good videos on youtube, and why its so unpopular. its so overrun with subpar user content, that nobody can find any good videos after hours of scouring the service.
/sarcasm
Youtube is overrun with subpar user content, by far the majority is crap.
Most of the good videos are professionally done. The amateur ones by and large are crap, it is the one out of a million that gets popular and is entertaining, but when there are 100 million a day, that still leaves lots to choose from over time.
edit - I did read one stat sometime that said that something like 100 million videos were watched a day and around 2-3 billion per month, and almost 100 million new videos made per month.
edit - actually change that. 3 billion hits per day, 48 hours of new video per minute. So yes by far far far, the majority is complete crap.
No. You missed the point. His point was addressing why not give players the ability to put out quests - because most is crap. Straight forward, and admittely opinion but straight forwards.
Youtube is a good example of this. They have waht 100 popular videos a day which includes the professionally made videos and music videos. And they have a 15 minute time limit (around there anyway). Yet they have 48 hours of video loaded per minute.
Crunch the numbers. Every day there is 69120 hours of video loaded or about 4,147,200 minutes of video but only about 1500 minutes actually becomes popular. Not going to get into the argument that popular is not entertaining because by and large that is crap too. Yes entertainment is subjective however there are common interests and tastes which is why something becomes popular and on a viral media like youtube good entertainment becomes popular pretty darn quick.
So no 99% of what we watch is typically not wonderfull and entertaining. It is garbage, which is why he doesn't support people having quests
My own opinion, I've done it in the past, making quests both formal for games that support it, and just in game chat for those that didn't. I've also played a lot of them and yes most of them are garbage. I would still like to do it, however just like youtube we can reduce the amount of time it takes to find a good one with some sort of ranking system.
If youtube didn't have that system it would take hours, days, weeks to find something good.
[mod edit]
Once again. No you missed the point. We don't watch garbage. We don't play garbage. He doesn't feel that giving players ability to make quests because most is garbage. How much simpler can that be explained to you.
By far the majority will be garbage. Thats his point.
[mod edit]
sigh. Once again no. That is the point.
The question was why not let players give quests. The answer was because the majority of the quests players create will be garbage. It cannot be stated simpler. That was the answer to the question. That was the point.
Disagree all you want. That was the answer.
I didn't say I wasn't aware. Reading is good. I stated specifically I had played games that let you make quests and in games that don't I have made some anyway.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Why is it rocket science to allow players to give out quests?
Why can't questing serve more of a purpose than getting a chunk of exp and loot?
Here's what I want:
When you log in the first time you either pick a guild(or start a guild) with friends or you choose a guild that suits what you want to do ingame.
PVP guilds, PVE guilds, crafting guilds, convenience guilds...all guilds would have a focus and provide activities geared to what players are looking for instead of static NPCs doling out quests, gear and travel/home services.
I'd rather do quests that help my guild and suit my interests than do static quests have no affect on anything but my exp and income.
If my guild wants to have a castle and needs X, Y and Z to get it built, that's what I want to spend my time doing. Helping build up something that actually sticks instead of doing meaningless fetch runs.
If my guild wants to have the best transport service in the game, I'm gonna help build ships and docks. Whether its gathering materials or being involved in a crafting raid, what I'm doing is going to have some real weight and validity in the game world. It'll be competitive and it'll help other players as well.
Archeage??
Explaining: AA will have a system where the players will need to spend "labor points" to do the majority of tasks regarding gathering, craft and construction. So, as the labor points available to each character is limited, rich guys or guilds will need to recruit people to spend labor points for them in exchange of money or others rewards.
Obviously, these tasks will not be "quests" in the common meaning of the term, will be more like a "job".
The OP asked the question why not let players make quests, Nari gave the answer, that the majority are crap. You stated:
thats why there are no good videos on youtube, and why its so unpopular. its so overrun with subpar user content, that nobody can find any good videos after hours of scouring the service.
/sarcasm
I then stated the majority of youtube videos are crap, it is overrun with subpar user content and posted information showing how many videos are actually made.
The point ALWAYS WAS THAT THE MAJORITY IS CRAP. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE POINT. That is the reason he gave as to why they don't let players make quests.
Everything else you've posted has been well, pointless.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The OP asked the question why not let players make quests, Nari gave the answer, that the majority are crap. You stated:
thats why there are no good videos on youtube, and why its so unpopular. its so overrun with subpar user content, that nobody can find any good videos after hours of scouring the service.
/sarcasm
I then stated the majority of youtube videos are crap, it is overrun with subpar user content and posted information showing how many videos are actually made.
The point ALWAYS WAS THAT THE MAJORITY IS CRAP. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE POINT. That is the reason he gave as to why they don't let players make quests.
Everything else you've posted has been well, pointless.
[mod edit]
Once again no. I get what you are saying. I'm saying that that the point ALWAYS WAS THAT THE MAJORITY ARE CRAP. You are saying the point was that you could still find content. I'm saying that was never the point.
The point was always that the reason the devs don't let players make quests was because the majority is crap.
edit - other than the expense and system is abused.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I disagree. I believe MMORPG's should focus on providing players with a game world that's believable. Immersion, in my opinion, is crucial for RPG's as it allows us to imagine ourselves within a fantasy. With that, NPC's are a must. They serve very particular roles that players simply can't achieve alone, atleast to a reasonable extent. For instance, NPC's can be used as citizens of a game world, like a bartender, one of the king's cooks, a slave, a construction worker, etc. These are roles that players usually do not commit to or focus on, as players usually play the adventurous type. Another extremely critical element related to NPC's is population density. Simply put, there usually are never enough players to really populate an area and make it feel alive. There are a series of factors that contribute to this, such as server limitations and progression (some areas simply are better than others, creating ghost towns).
Finally, NPC's can be used by developers as a mean to deliver more complex content. Certain stories and missions would simply never be feasible without NPC's. While players should most definitely serve the so-called "content-locust" role, the stories that come about from developers can have characters that truly fit into the lore, in their motives and actions. For instance, a developer-made story around a medieval king would never work with players only because players would never truly act like a king from medieval times, for their mindsets are completely different. Players would not portray a medieval king unless there is some serious RP'ing involved, which in most cases there isn't.
I disagree. I believe MMORPG's should focus on providing players with a game world that's believable. Immersion, in my opinion, is crucial for RPG's as it allows us to imagine ourselves within a fantasy. With that, NPC's are a must.
There are plenty of other ways to provide context and story without NPCs.
They serve very particular roles that players simply can't achieve alone, atleast to a reasonable extent. For instance, NPC's can be used as citizens of a game world, like a bartender, one of the king's cooks, a slave, a construction worker, etc. These are roles that players usually do not commit to or focus on, as players usually play the adventurous type.
That is because most MMOs are designed as killfests and nothing more. The more tools and features there are to support other roles, the less devs needs to rely on the crutch of NPCs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I love these utopian MMO concepts players come up with. There's only one problem with it. Other people and their human nature. People don't act the way you would like them to.
You are not sitting at a table with 5 of your likeminded peers with your custom made dices playing a round of dungeons and dragons, where everybody is deeply engrossed in the setting of it all. You have the aholes, the trolls, the griefers playing your game as well trying to find ways to ruin your fun just like in any game. If you leave too much up to the players then expect the players to find a way to ruin it for everybody else
Why is it rocket science to allow players to give out quests?
Why can't questing serve more of a purpose than getting a chunk of exp and loot?
Because most player generated stuff is crap.
thats why there are no good videos on youtube, and why its so unpopular. its so overrun with subpar user content, that nobody can find any good videos after hours of scouring the service.
/sarcasm
HO-LY crap corpusc, way to completely miss everything here.
Maybe if you weren't spouting irrelevant stuff about youtube, you'd see that nari had the answer.
The majority is crap. A few nuggets are good. This works when you have a powerful searchable tool powered by GOOGLE to find what you want, but in an MMORPG it is different.
Most videos on youtube are amateur and crap. People can still find what they are looking for using a search tool powered by the most powerful search company in the world - Google.
When players make quests, most are terrible. That's the answer. That's it.
Some sandbox games have player stories - such as EVE. Emergent gameplay. These are not player designed quests though.
Feel free to tell me how many points and whose points I missed or hit though corpusc. That seems to be all you've been capable of discussing in this thread really. You were wrong about youtube, wrong about the thread topic, wrong about pretty much everything here so far.
Also, you aren't the OP, so to be honest, it isn't "your point" in question here. It's the question asked by the OP, to which nariusseldon answered beautifly.
as a guild don't you already set these kinds of goals? The only thing u need is a sanbox with a deep crafting system, but what does this have to do with NPC's ? remove quests yeah. remove npc's no thank you.
Uhm hi Age Of Wushu?
A deep hybrid just like Archeage is a hybrid with a deep crafting system. All the best items are player made, you craft a blade then you need a woodworker to make the handle.
As for NPC, well Age Of Wushu has the most innovated offline system or NPC system ever seen in any mmo. As a matter of fact it's never been done before in any mmo. Once you log off you can choose up to 30 different offline duties meaning your character stays in the world as an npc.
I disagree. I believe MMORPG's should focus on providing players with a game world that's believable. Immersion, in my opinion, is crucial for RPG's as it allows us to imagine ourselves within a fantasy. With that, NPC's are a must.
There are plenty of other ways to provide context and story without NPCs.
They serve very particular roles that players simply can't achieve alone, atleast to a reasonable extent. For instance, NPC's can be used as citizens of a game world, like a bartender, one of the king's cooks, a slave, a construction worker, etc. These are roles that players usually do not commit to or focus on, as players usually play the adventurous type.
That is because most MMOs are designed as killfests and nothing more. The more tools and features there are to support other roles, the less devs needs to rely on the crutch of NPCs.
Reread my post, I added some elaboration. Either way, I'll state it again. Unless there is some serious RP'ing going on, players will never truly act like citizens of a fantasy town. That's why NPC's are needed to create a believable fantasy.
You also did not address my point on ghost towns, and how certain places become more interesting than others due to progression, conflict, and many other factors. Without NPC's, you will inevitably have ghost towns, and that simply is not conducive to a believable fantasy world.
NPC's shouldn't be viewed as crutch, but as a tool to create immersive and believable worlds. Honestly, what are the disadvantages of having NPC's?
I disagree. I believe MMORPG's should focus on providing players with a game world that's believable. Immersion, in my opinion, is crucial for RPG's as it allows us to imagine ourselves within a fantasy. With that, NPC's are a must.
There are plenty of other ways to provide context and story without NPCs.
They serve very particular roles that players simply can't achieve alone, atleast to a reasonable extent. For instance, NPC's can be used as citizens of a game world, like a bartender, one of the king's cooks, a slave, a construction worker, etc. These are roles that players usually do not commit to or focus on, as players usually play the adventurous type.
That is because most MMOs are designed as killfests and nothing more. The more tools and features there are to support other roles, the less devs needs to rely on the crutch of NPCs.
Reread my post, I added some elaboration. Either way, I'll state it again. Unless there is some serious RP'ing going on, players will never truly act like citizens of a fantasy town. That's why NPC's are needed to create a believable fantasy.
You also did not address my point on ghost towns, and how certain places become more interesting than others due to progression, conflict, and many other factors. Without NPC's, you will inevitably have ghost towns, and that simply is not conducive to a believable fantasy world.
Because ghost towns are less believeable than dragons or magic? Last time I checked, ghost towns were things that actually happen IRL.
Because ghost towns are less believeable than dragons or magic? Last time I checked, ghost towns were things that actually happen IRL.
Wow, you completely missed the point. I'm not talking about believability in terms of our reality, but within fantasy worlds, where magic and dragons are, in most cases, completely appropriate. My argument isn't dealing with IRL...
I disagree. I believe MMORPG's should focus on providing players with a game world that's believable. Immersion, in my opinion, is crucial for RPG's as it allows us to imagine ourselves within a fantasy. With that, NPC's are a must.
There are plenty of other ways to provide context and story without NPCs.
They serve very particular roles that players simply can't achieve alone, atleast to a reasonable extent. For instance, NPC's can be used as citizens of a game world, like a bartender, one of the king's cooks, a slave, a construction worker, etc. These are roles that players usually do not commit to or focus on, as players usually play the adventurous type.
That is because most MMOs are designed as killfests and nothing more. The more tools and features there are to support other roles, the less devs needs to rely on the crutch of NPCs.
Reread my post, I added some elaboration. Either way, I'll state it again. Unless there is some serious RP'ing going on, players will never truly act like citizens of a fantasy town. That's why NPC's are needed to create a believable fantasy.
You also did not address my point on ghost towns, and how certain places become more interesting than others due to progression, conflict, and many other factors. Without NPC's, you will inevitably have ghost towns, and that simply is not conducive to a believable fantasy world.
Because ghost towns are less believeable than dragons or magic? Last time I checked, ghost towns were things that actually happen IRL.
Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't see much of a point in anything you just wrote. Ghost towns are not what people play MMOs for or fantasy games unless it's post apocalyptic or is relevant to a particular storyline. People want vibrant living cities. Players don't provide that. They just stand around doing /dance or check the auction house. Having a MMO where people act like regular towns folk isn't going to happen no matter how great that sounds. It's called human nature. You can gather a group of likeminded people but you have no control over the masses that buy a game
Now you are just arguing for the same of arguing. I don't see much of a point in anything you just wrote. Ghost towns are not what people play MMOs for or fantasy games unless it's post apocalyptic or is relevnt to a particular storyline. People want vibrant living cities. Players don't provide that. They just stand around doing /dance or check the auction house. Having a MMO where people act like regular towns folk isn't going to happen no matter how great that sounds. It's called human nature. You can gather a group of likeminded people but you have no control over the masses that buy a game
It would be cool if when you logged out your character was still in the game doing stuff. Like the people you see walking around the town are players models/names instead of just npc's. It would be even better if they called out to people on your flist and in your guild with a greeting.
Now you are just arguing for the same of arguing. I don't see much of a point in anything you just wrote. Ghost towns are not what people play MMOs for or fantasy games unless it's post apocalyptic or is relevnt to a particular storyline. People want vibrant living cities. Players don't provide that. They just stand around doing /dance or check the auction house. Having a MMO where people act like regular towns folk isn't going to happen no matter how great that sounds. It's called human nature. You can gather a group of likeminded people but you have no control over the masses that buy a game
Exactly.
Right, it wouldn't work within the same kind of RPG as WoW.
Now what if this fantasy world of MMO-ness had players that needed to find food or starve? Perhaps if a snowstorm comes, you need to find shelter? Perhaps the goldmine in that mountain that players have dug and exploited, is now run dry?
These kinds of things could create a ghost town in a fantasy world MMORPG. The players leave when there is no more mining to make money. Then players desperate to seek shelter from a storm, or hide from some fantasy creature attack, seek shelter in the ghost town. The storm passes, the creatures leave, and perhaps the players stay. They take up farming food that grows with surprising properties from something in the water flowing down from the mountain. The ghost town grows, with farmers instead of miners.
But of course this is just arguing for arguing. There is no point in anything I wrote because players don't play MMOs to do anything besides click orcs with an ! above their head for their welfare quest XP handouts. Players don't want any sort of player driven, organic, interesting experience. They don't want to discover anything. They just want XP.
You're SOOOO right. It is just human nature. People have never banded together, or left their towns before. It's not human nature to do so.
Originally posted by tollbooth It would be cool if when you logged out your character was still in the game doing stuff. Like the people you see walking around the town are players models/names instead of just npc's. It would be even better if they called out to people on your flist and in your guild with a greeting.
You didn't even write anything of relevance, again. You just keep saying how others are missing the point or don't understand. That's all you keep saying. You literally didn't say anything related to the topic.
Now you are just arguing for the same of arguing. I don't see much of a point in anything you just wrote. Ghost towns are not what people play MMOs for or fantasy games unless it's post apocalyptic or is relevnt to a particular storyline. People want vibrant living cities. Players don't provide that. They just stand around doing /dance or check the auction house. Having a MMO where people act like regular towns folk isn't going to happen no matter how great that sounds. It's called human nature. You can gather a group of likeminded people but you have no control over the masses that buy a game
Exactly.
You're SOOOO right. It is just human nature. People have never banded together, or left their towns before. It's not human nature to do so.
We are talking about gamers here. Think for a second and stop overromantizing things and snap back to reality of it all
You didn't even write anything of relevance, again. You just keep saying how others are missing the point or don't understand. That's all you keep saying. You literally didn't say anything related to the topic.
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
Why player quests are infrequently used by game companies?
They're mostly low quality.
Are some high quality?
Yes.
Do players want to sift through legions of low quality player quests to find a good one without the aid of a powerful search engine such as Google backing it?
No.
Do game companies want poor player quests flooding their game and representing it?
Comments
Goblin Works: Blog#13: Signed... in Blood
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
+1 this is one step to making better MMO's , one of many needed to get this boring genre back on par where it should be.
I would love to help build massive epic areas like Ironforge, and not have it all pre built for me.
Once again. No you missed the point. We don't watch garbage. We don't play garbage. He doesn't feel that giving players ability to make quests because most is garbage. How much simpler can that be explained to you.
By far the majority will be garbage. Thats his point.
sigh. Once again no. That is the point.
The question was why not let players give quests. The answer was because the majority of the quests players create will be garbage. It cannot be stated simpler. That was the answer to the question. That was the point.
Disagree all you want. That was the answer.
I didn't say I wasn't aware. Reading is good. I stated specifically I had played games that let you make quests and in games that don't I have made some anyway.
Archeage??
Explaining: AA will have a system where the players will need to spend "labor points" to do the majority of tasks regarding gathering, craft and construction. So, as the labor points available to each character is limited, rich guys or guilds will need to recruit people to spend labor points for them in exchange of money or others rewards.
Obviously, these tasks will not be "quests" in the common meaning of the term, will be more like a "job".
in short: sandbox.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
The OP asked the question why not let players make quests, Nari gave the answer, that the majority are crap. You stated:
thats why there are no good videos on youtube, and why its so unpopular. its so overrun with subpar user content, that nobody can find any good videos after hours of scouring the service.
/sarcasm
I then stated the majority of youtube videos are crap, it is overrun with subpar user content and posted information showing how many videos are actually made.
The point ALWAYS WAS THAT THE MAJORITY IS CRAP. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE POINT. That is the reason he gave as to why they don't let players make quests.
Everything else you've posted has been well, pointless.
Once again no. I get what you are saying. I'm saying that that the point ALWAYS WAS THAT THE MAJORITY ARE CRAP. You are saying the point was that you could still find content. I'm saying that was never the point.
The point was always that the reason the devs don't let players make quests was because the majority is crap.
edit - other than the expense and system is abused.
I disagree. I believe MMORPG's should focus on providing players with a game world that's believable. Immersion, in my opinion, is crucial for RPG's as it allows us to imagine ourselves within a fantasy. With that, NPC's are a must. They serve very particular roles that players simply can't achieve alone, atleast to a reasonable extent. For instance, NPC's can be used as citizens of a game world, like a bartender, one of the king's cooks, a slave, a construction worker, etc. These are roles that players usually do not commit to or focus on, as players usually play the adventurous type. Another extremely critical element related to NPC's is population density. Simply put, there usually are never enough players to really populate an area and make it feel alive. There are a series of factors that contribute to this, such as server limitations and progression (some areas simply are better than others, creating ghost towns).
Finally, NPC's can be used by developers as a mean to deliver more complex content. Certain stories and missions would simply never be feasible without NPC's. While players should most definitely serve the so-called "content-locust" role, the stories that come about from developers can have characters that truly fit into the lore, in their motives and actions. For instance, a developer-made story around a medieval king would never work with players only because players would never truly act like a king from medieval times, for their mindsets are completely different. Players would not portray a medieval king unless there is some serious RP'ing involved, which in most cases there isn't.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I love these utopian MMO concepts players come up with. There's only one problem with it. Other people and their human nature. People don't act the way you would like them to.
You are not sitting at a table with 5 of your likeminded peers with your custom made dices playing a round of dungeons and dragons, where everybody is deeply engrossed in the setting of it all. You have the aholes, the trolls, the griefers playing your game as well trying to find ways to ruin your fun just like in any game. If you leave too much up to the players then expect the players to find a way to ruin it for everybody else
HO-LY crap corpusc, way to completely miss everything here.
Maybe if you weren't spouting irrelevant stuff about youtube, you'd see that nari had the answer.
The majority is crap. A few nuggets are good. This works when you have a powerful searchable tool powered by GOOGLE to find what you want, but in an MMORPG it is different.
Most videos on youtube are amateur and crap. People can still find what they are looking for using a search tool powered by the most powerful search company in the world - Google.
When players make quests, most are terrible. That's the answer. That's it.
Some sandbox games have player stories - such as EVE. Emergent gameplay. These are not player designed quests though.
Feel free to tell me how many points and whose points I missed or hit though corpusc. That seems to be all you've been capable of discussing in this thread really. You were wrong about youtube, wrong about the thread topic, wrong about pretty much everything here so far.
Also, you aren't the OP, so to be honest, it isn't "your point" in question here. It's the question asked by the OP, to which nariusseldon answered beautifly.
Uhm hi Age Of Wushu?
A deep hybrid just like Archeage is a hybrid with a deep crafting system. All the best items are player made, you craft a blade then you need a woodworker to make the handle.
As for NPC, well Age Of Wushu has the most innovated offline system or NPC system ever seen in any mmo. As a matter of fact it's never been done before in any mmo. Once you log off you can choose up to 30 different offline duties meaning your character stays in the world as an npc.
http://uk.ign.com/wikis/age-of-wushu/Kidnapping
Reread my post, I added some elaboration. Either way, I'll state it again. Unless there is some serious RP'ing going on, players will never truly act like citizens of a fantasy town. That's why NPC's are needed to create a believable fantasy.
You also did not address my point on ghost towns, and how certain places become more interesting than others due to progression, conflict, and many other factors. Without NPC's, you will inevitably have ghost towns, and that simply is not conducive to a believable fantasy world.
NPC's shouldn't be viewed as crutch, but as a tool to create immersive and believable worlds. Honestly, what are the disadvantages of having NPC's?
Because ghost towns are less believeable than dragons or magic? Last time I checked, ghost towns were things that actually happen IRL.
Wow, you completely missed the point. I'm not talking about believability in terms of our reality, but within fantasy worlds, where magic and dragons are, in most cases, completely appropriate. My argument isn't dealing with IRL...
Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't see much of a point in anything you just wrote. Ghost towns are not what people play MMOs for or fantasy games unless it's post apocalyptic or is relevant to a particular storyline. People want vibrant living cities. Players don't provide that. They just stand around doing /dance or check the auction house. Having a MMO where people act like regular towns folk isn't going to happen no matter how great that sounds. It's called human nature. You can gather a group of likeminded people but you have no control over the masses that buy a game
Exactly.
Right, it wouldn't work within the same kind of RPG as WoW.
Now what if this fantasy world of MMO-ness had players that needed to find food or starve? Perhaps if a snowstorm comes, you need to find shelter? Perhaps the goldmine in that mountain that players have dug and exploited, is now run dry?
These kinds of things could create a ghost town in a fantasy world MMORPG. The players leave when there is no more mining to make money. Then players desperate to seek shelter from a storm, or hide from some fantasy creature attack, seek shelter in the ghost town. The storm passes, the creatures leave, and perhaps the players stay. They take up farming food that grows with surprising properties from something in the water flowing down from the mountain. The ghost town grows, with farmers instead of miners.
But of course this is just arguing for arguing. There is no point in anything I wrote because players don't play MMOs to do anything besides click orcs with an ! above their head for their welfare quest XP handouts. Players don't want any sort of player driven, organic, interesting experience. They don't want to discover anything. They just want XP.
You're SOOOO right. It is just human nature. People have never banded together, or left their towns before. It's not human nature to do so.
Lol, go back a page and read my post.
You didn't even write anything of relevance, again. You just keep saying how others are missing the point or don't understand. That's all you keep saying. You literally didn't say anything related to the topic.
We are talking about gamers here. Think for a second and stop overromantizing things and snap back to reality of it all
[mod edit]
Why player quests are infrequently used by game companies?
They're mostly low quality.
Are some high quality?
Yes.
Do players want to sift through legions of low quality player quests to find a good one without the aid of a powerful search engine such as Google backing it?
No.
Do game companies want poor player quests flooding their game and representing it?
No.
[mod edit]