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Why linear games (including MMOs) just don't work
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
So, while this may not be an MMO...and this I guess only matters if you are into the story (which I imagine you would in a linear game...otherwise there isn't any other point to it)
I watched Let's Plays of Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3...while the Youtuber didn't do all the side quests...I never had to actually buy the game. I just watched the videos, was greatly entertained and knew all the story. Saved much money just by watching videos.
MMO wise...I did the same for SWTOR. All I had to do was watch someone play multiple storylines in SWTOR and I got the whole lore and story. Never had to buy it or spend a monthly fee. It was a long Let's Play, but saved me much money.
Did the same for WoW...though the guy blitzed through most of the stuff. I mostly watched all the raids and storylines with them (especially the lich king).
And that is why linear games don't work...why buy them when all you have to do is get on Youtube and watch videos of said game? If a game is very linear (like SWTOR, Mass Effect and even Call of Duty...but people buy CoD for multiplayer)...there isn't much point to buying it and you'll save a lot of money just watching videos on it.
Granted, this would only be true for those that care about story in a game. And linear games only have story going for them. So, I don't see a point to linear games at all...
Take EVE...sure I can watch videos...but when I play, who knows what could happen. The game is so open and random, that someone doing a video of it...will have a vastly different play through as someone else. The same for SWG when that was still alive. My play through of it, is definitely very different than someone else's experience.
My personal rule is: If I can see the whole storyline of a game, then that me saves 50/60 dollars of buying said game as I won't have a reason to buy it.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Comments
A lot of rant ...
Yeah .. they don't work .. that is why Dead Space sells millions. Deus Ex sells millions. COD sells MANY millions.
The point is to enjoy the mechanics (whether it is killing stuff, stealth, or what-not) while going through the stories.
I gather that you don't like linear games. I like them. Your preference is just that .. no better than anyone elses.
I agree wholeheartedly although you're going to have a few visitors here shortly (edit: oops, too late ROFL!) defending the Skinner Box model and no-world game design.
How people can enjoy and defend carp like that is beyond me.
"Freedom? We don't want no stinkin' freedom!"
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The fact that there is a term for it .. the skinner box .. shows that it works. Fulfilling psychological needs is what games are doing, right? That is basically what entertainment is.
You should read some of this skinner box literature that you so proudly point out to understand WHY people enjoy it.
The point for me is that linear games only have story going for them. Don't care if the mechanics are bad, horrible or non existant or best thing since sliced bread. A linear game is only for a story. And there is no point in going through a story, when I can fully watch it on Youtube. Mass Effect is all story, and I got a good part of that story (minus side quests) from just watching videos. (edit: same with SWTOR as I mentioned, all story...and I saw a good part of the story from videos)
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
We are all animals, aren't we? Statistically, if the skinner box is as powerful as you allure it to be, it should meet the needs of many. May be why treadmills are so popular. You can't deny millions are playing the WOW treadmills, can you?
did you consider that the story is only part of it? Maybe the game play portion that is woven alongside the story is part of the fun?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Negative. I'm classified as human.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You don't get the point of why people play these games. The point *is* the mechanics. The story (the linear part) is merely an excuse to use the mechanics.
And people do watch it on youtube to see alternate ending and stuff.
Now personally i don't play ME .. because i don't like the comabt mechanics. On the other hand, i love Deus Ex and Dishonored. All are pretty linear .. but Deus Ex/Dishonored have fun/interesting mechanics.
BTW, while you *can* solve a situation different in Deus Ex and Dishonored, the story is very linear .. so i count htem as linear games in your content.
It is not up to you. Read a biology text book. Humans are animals.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
may be we should take it to the next level and start citing scientific literatures.
LOL, if you want to derail, perhaps you should start a thread elsewhere on evolution.
The topic here is on linear games and gameplay, k?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
What a silly way of thinking. You could say the same thing about literature and cliff notes. I still love reading, however. Linear games work amazingly well, its a grand system that allows you to have a lush and amazing story that still gives you a hands on experience with the material. Its the entire premise behind the term RPG, you are playing the role of the person in the story. Hell you could apply this logic to movies as well, why watch one if a friend can just sum it up for you really quick. The answer, I'd think, is pretty obvious. Its because you want to experience it too, all the little details and the execution of a brilliant story.
Now, how this all applies to an MMO is a little different. Fundamentally, these games need to have longevity in order to keep players in the game and paying. You need a large playerbase to encourage others to play because the draw is gaming with other people. The trouble with linear gameplay in this setting is that, barring giant content gates, its short lived and does not encourage long term play. Having a team devoted to making a living online world serves this much better because that playstyle DOES have longevity. Your example of SWG is pretty good for this. Yeah, they made bad choices and had terrible programming mistakes. But even through ALL of the faults that game has had a longer overall lifespan than many of todays MMO's, simply because it had that online world feel and people fought hard to love it.
I would say that linear gameplay HAS a place in singleplayer and limited multiplayer games. But when you go massive, you can no longer rely on story to get you through. Think about the best authors there are, they take years at times to write the next great book. A good story takes a long time to flesh out and make, and creating the complimenting visuals and soundscape are no walk in the park either. Its just not a financially intelligent move for what MMO gaming is, at its core. Its great for single player stuff, because those are price pointed at a single shot deal. MMO's need return customers, and they need to take a more service industry approach to it all. McDonalds isn't trying to keep making one awesome burger that takes months to craft. They just churn out lots of new stuff all the time to keep people coming in. That is one way to deal with it, large amounts of new stuff to consume but with less depth. Another way is to go the Build-a-bear route and let the customer create their own product. You provide tools, they make the thing they want to buy. Overall this is the MOST cost effective because you only need to spend money developing tools and those are used by the community to create years of content for you. Build a Bear just tosses out some skins and suits and lets you make up whatever.
A good MMO company would focus on its community tools over linear content any day. But none have, and thats because of the EQ era. See, that is a super linear game that lasted forever. The reason for that was its massive content gates. But people hated that crap, so newer games thought they could one up them by removing the gate. It worked, except for one tiny detail. You cannot create content fast enough that way. Or, rather, you CAN but it now doubles your overhead trying to do so. This is why our new games cost SO MUCH MORE to make. They have to pay far larger teams to handle this crap. Which is sad, because a smaller team devoted only to making community tools has always proven to do better. Minecraft, EVE, UO...all very successful and each had great longterm financial longevity.
Sure. Linear games obviously work.
1) They sell millions (and there are countless examples).
2) Many are highly rated by both users and critics.
3) Many are fun to me
So now .. how are they "not work"? They fail to entertain (clearly not true for many paleyrs)? They fail to make money (clear not true for many games)?
What works for you might not work for someone else, would you agree?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Sure. But then the statement would apply to everything. Obviously non-linear games won't work for at least 1 person.
If you talk about the market (in terms of number of players, and money), then obviously that linear games work.
(And before you jump, i did NOT say nonlinear games won't work .. there are obvious examples of that working too).
Good, now we're getting somewhere.
Linear games might be working for a lot of gamers now but we've seen a LOT of gamers getting sick and tired of them.
See, the problem is most gamers don't like being confined inside Skinner Boxes, they like freedom. Gamers are just voicing their displeasure with linear games, it's their right to do so just as it's your right to defend them.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
For "hard" science, sure i'm all for it in fact.
For discussions based upon "soft" science, psychology, especially when dealing with people over the net. Well, there seems little point in it. Someone could cite a paper, the rejoinder would just be "huh well that's not why I like it bro".
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I can see why people could enjoy both types of games. Take two of my favorite games. Civilization and Final Fantasy X
Playing Civilization, you can do hundreds of playthroughs and never have exactly the same experience twice.
Final Fantasy X is a series of pathways where you fight monsters then get to a cut scene, rinse and repeat. However you will be playing the game for sixty to a hundred hours depending on how much of a completionist you are maybe longer.
After the hundred hours of Final Fantasy I feel I got my moneys worth. Same with the hundred or so hours I have played Civilization.
So both are valid, games with storylines and games without them.
For me it is not a matter of one style bad, one style good it is a matter of being a well made game and did it keep me entertained for long enough I felt I got my moneys worth.
Possibly why GTA is a good design of linear mission nodes (with some choice to sequence) + open world. It's a good balance imo. ME was v good fun, but the map exploration (open world) was the big let-down of that by comparison. Still great story.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.