Originally posted by tollbooth I don't understand people saying GW2 dungeons were hard.
Some people adapt better to change than others, that's why. If GW2 dungeons were around before the trinity, people would be complaining about the trinity instead and that it's too restrictive.
Yeah IMO gw2 has the worst crafting of any AAA mmorpg. It's probably why they made it count for so much xp.
I hope other games don't think mystic forge is a good idea because it is not. It's lazy and almost no one liked it. Add recipes. Don't add FAKE randomeness.
Hero Evermore Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982. Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
Yeah IMO gw2 has the worst crafting of any AAA mmorpg. It's probably why they made it count for so much xp.
I hope other games don't think mystic forge is a good idea because it is not. It's lazy and almost no one liked it. Add recipes. Don't add FAKE randomeness.
Worst? Can't say I agree there. What I will say is that it essentially is the same old shit as most other AAA mmorpgs.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by grimgryphon Ten demerit points to anyone who used the terms "journalism" or "journalist" when referring to people who write for gaming sites.
You might include newspappers, tv, radio and other media platform as well.
Real journalists and journalism is a dying breed.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by grimgryphon Ten demerit points to anyone who used the terms "journalism" or "journalist" when referring to people who write for gaming sites.
You might include newspappers, tv, radio and other media platform as well.
Real journalists and journalism is a dying breed.
Exactly so. These days the mass media is little more than a mouth piece for the corporate state. Its function is to create, shape, manipulate and misinform the general publics opinion.
MMOs and their developers don't label their classes as the trinity either, players do. Of course there was taunting in D&D. Not only did my fighters shout epithets at mobs to keep their attention, I also would place myself between them and the physically weaker members of the party which in itself is taunting, forcing the mob to face me and ignore my party. I'm not projecting anything. The mechanic already existed, it's just that no one even gave it a second thought or considered it a bad thing.
Nice try.
Any more than your pathetic effort.
The burden of proof resides on you. Your example above just shows a description of a combat encounter. Just because it bears similarity does not mean that the trinity suddenly exists. That's like saying that all green items are equal just because they are green.
Just because you are too blind to see it for what it was or too obstinate to admit you were wrong. Your argument is no different than people who proclaim that homosexuality is a modern issue, all based on the fact that even though it existed in our ancient past, it wasn't labeled as such and therefore it didn't technically exist. The terminology and label may be modern, the idea and practice are not.
By the way, Ms. Knowitall, the burden of proof is required on both sides of an argument and you haven't proven anything yourself.
I' ve already shot down your whole argument. Others have agreed. If you can't talk nice, avoid discussions.
Just because you are too blind to see it for what it was or too obstinate to admit you were wrong. Your argument is no different than people who proclaim that homosexuality is a modern issue, all based on the fact that even though it existed in our ancient past, it wasn't labeled as such and therefore it didn't technically exist. The terminology and label may be modern, the idea and practice are not.
Did you really just...?
There seriously needs to be an Analogies Anonymous group formed for gamers to stop the madness.
MMOs and their developers don't label their classes as the trinity either, players do. Of course there was taunting in D&D. Not only did my fighters shout epithets at mobs to keep their attention, I also would place myself between them and the physically weaker members of the party which in itself is taunting, forcing the mob to face me and ignore my party. I'm not projecting anything. The mechanic already existed, it's just that no one even gave it a second thought or considered it a bad thing.
Nice try.
Any more than your pathetic effort.
The burden of proof resides on you. Your example above just shows a description of a combat encounter. Just because it bears similarity does not mean that the trinity suddenly exists. That's like saying that all green items are equal just because they are green.
Just because you are too blind to see it for what it was or too obstinate to admit you were wrong. Your argument is no different than people who proclaim that homosexuality is a modern issue, all based on the fact that even though it existed in our ancient past, it wasn't labeled as such and therefore it didn't technically exist. The terminology and label may be modern, the idea and practice are not.
By the way, Ms. Knowitall, the burden of proof is required on both sides of an argument and you haven't proven anything yourself.
I' ve already shot down your whole argument. Others have agreed. If you can't talk nice, avoid discussions.
You haven't shot down anything and one or two agreements doesn't mean anything. You were never nice to begin with, so don't try pretending otherwise. Your post history is replete with sarcasm and baiting. It's I who should have known better than to argue with someone like you.
Originally posted by grimgryphon Ten demerit points to anyone who used the terms "journalism" or "journalist" when referring to people who write for gaming sites.
You might include newspappers, tv, radio and other media platform as well.
Have some pretty interesting and intelligent arguments against the game that I tend to agree with.
Pretty much highlights the issues I have with the game almost perfectly.
To peak your interest - the highlights in bullet point form-
-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear
-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements
-Area flow is problematic
-Crafting is a freaking mess
-The story is weak
Well hot-damn! Not everyone in gaming media is drinking the Cool-Aid. Good for Massively. Overall I think GW2 is okay, but I'm not blind to its problems and get all butt-hurt when someone points them out. Glad to see an e-zine not afraid to make valid points.
Well I feel pretty butt hurt over this because I thought that Massively was somebody that could be trusted. Why would they say bad things about GW2 and give them Game of the Year?
Have some pretty interesting and intelligent arguments against the game that I tend to agree with.
Pretty much highlights the issues I have with the game almost perfectly.
To peak your interest - the highlights in bullet point form-
-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear
-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements
-Area flow is problematic
-Crafting is a freaking mess
-The story is weak
Well hot-damn! Not everyone in gaming media is drinking the Cool-Aid. Good for Massively. Overall I think GW2 is okay, but I'm not blind to its problems and get all butt-hurt when someone points them out. Glad to see an e-zine not afraid to make valid points.
Well I feel pretty butt hurt over this because I thought that Massively was somebody that could be trusted. Why would they say bad things about GW2 and give them Game of the Year?
That you feel that way and ask that question about an article that starts out the way this one does is awesome. I love your posts. You are super incredible and I'm glad you post here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Have some pretty interesting and intelligent arguments against the game that I tend to agree with.
Pretty much highlights the issues I have with the game almost perfectly.
To pique your interest - the highlights in bullet point form-
-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear
-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements
-Area flow is problematic
-Crafting is a freaking mess
-The story is weak
He obviously hasnt played much of it.
- roles? What roles? OMG its not trinity game, im lost on what to do! I find this most refresing thing in MMOs. Theres enough trinity games if you dont like one thats not. Another thing i find good is leveling time thats just about right to try out weapon combinations and see what your character can actually do and get used to it. Yes, the game doesnt explain it to you like to 5 year old kid, but where has curiosity and sense of discovery gone?
- dynamic events are NOT quest replacements, hearts are quest replacements, events are just events, and he doesnt really know the mechanic, he presumes too much. Events WAI, yah they are a bit less than hyped, but after Rift and...well...Rifts...you should wait and see with those, but GW2 is ton better than Rift in that sense.
- area flow? you open a map and each area has its level shown. And your story moves you through areas. Move...or move not. And they are quite neatly connected from lower to higher level. I really, really cant see his problem. Maybe hes overwhelmed by freedom of choice lol
- yes, you will probably overlevel your crafting level, which is pity, BUT its one of the rare games where you can actually craft top level items. Its so-so. I gind it funny that he compares it to SWTOR and bends the truth, i REd crapzillion items in SWTOR and you DONT "get back most of the ingredients" you get about the same lol
- he rumbles about something that proves hes still a lowbie because he doesnt know that game actually does what he says it doesnt, and i particularly know human thief story and that what he says isnt true.
Its one thing to have an opinon, its another when he just lies about stuff (story in particular). I find it better RPG than SWTOR, you actually have choices that impacts what you actually do, in SWTOR you doesnt, no matter what choice you make everything is the same. And neither game shines in story quality, SWTOR is just as bland and cheesy (and its made by "best story company in the business"...so yah).
-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear
-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements
-Area flow is problematic
-Crafting is a freaking mess
-The story is weak
1: Indeed, currently there are no roles, it is just tank and spank. You can't rely on CC against bosses, because they are immune and you don't get rewarded for playing a different role than DD.
2: DEs need to fill the gap that was created when quests were removed. The content is there, but it scales badly and currently there are not enough DEs to spread players around.
3: See above.
4: Can't say anything about that. Imo the whole weapon system is a mess compared to GW1. In GW1 you could customize existing gear, I don't think can do the same in GW2.
5: The story is ok for a MMO, but it is bad for an RPG, pretty bad. There is no decision making process involved, you only get choices which have no impact on the story whatsoever. Also, there is no branching story. The latest COD is more RPG than GW2.
Its one thing to have an opinon, its another when he just lies about stuff (story in particular). I find it better RPG than SWTOR, you actually have choices that impacts what you actually do, in SWTOR you doesnt, no matter what choice you make everything is the same. And neither game shines in story quality, SWTOR is just as bland and cheesy (and its made by "best story company in the business"...so yah).
If you want to go with the whole 'this article lies!' slant, actually getting some things factually right for yourself might be a good start.
1. Roles aren't explained at all in the game. Heck, even ANet admits the beginning section for new players can be a lot better.
2. Events are paper-thin in depth (were overhyped to hell; remember the 'entire zone would have changed!') and has to act like quest replacements. If you just do hearts you don't have the exp needed to go to the next zone.
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
4. Crafting is a mess. When 95% of the things created are not worth the investment and the other 5% are used only to salvage 'Ectos', yeah, its a mess.
5. GW2 story is bad because it suddenly changes focus to this NPC (you'll know when you see it) half way through and have heaps of non-resolved storylines. End of Act 1 is really really bad when it comes to non-resolved story lines.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.
This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.
I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.
Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.
Now what? The zone is a deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?
Just really awful world design.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.
This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.
I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.
Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.
Now what? The zone is a deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?
Just really awful world design.
I was a new player too, but I didn't have a problem with Area flow. Zones are clearly marked on the map despite being undiscovered, so we can get an idea where to head next. If the zones were arranged in chronological levels the game will feel even more rail type, especially since people are complaining that the game is on rails already. Whatever they mean by that.
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.
This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.
I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.
Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.
Now what? The zone is a deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?
Just really awful world design.
If you need orientation the story will guide you around and keep you moving.
After level 25 you are directed to LA - all the races are.
So either you are a new player and will follow the story and hearts or you can follow your own path.
This thing of wanting to play in a way that tries to after the weak points of the game and ignore all the strong points is masochism or acting in bad faith.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.
This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.
I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.
Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.
Now what? The zone is a deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?
Just really awful world design.
It's not a direct line or anything, but I never had a problem with it. The world map tells you the level ranges of all areas you've been next to and leveling is quite possible and fast in lower-level areas. So as a lvl 25 you could, for example, do stuff around Queensdale or LA or Brisban Wildlands or Wayfarer Foothills -> Snowden Drifts -> Lornar's Pass. Yes, the game doesn't tell you where you should go, but for me, that's a good thing.
Hmm, I just re-read what the article said and what we're talking about is slightly off-topic, because the article complains about nothing pushing you to explore high-level areas, but then contradicts itself by saying that "as you stick in lower-level areas, you get lower-level items... until you're utterly undergeared for areas that are actually at your level".
IMHO this article is a poor attempt at criticism, because it fails to mention the real complaints people have (Fractals, poor PR, culling, bugs taking way too long to fix, bad tooltips, inflation, poor boss design and many others) and focuses on secondary things and stuff that could be easily brushed aside as L2P issues. What weapons work with a venom build? Basically anything, but Spider Venom is a Condition Damage skill, so it works best with a Condition Damage weapon. Does the author really need the game to tell him that? Should it also give him a team build on a silver platter?
Much of the game is very well made, but I have 2 major complaints which have made me stop playing after the first 2 months:
- Worst dungeons in any MMO in the history of the genre.
- The personal stories are horribly uninspired and very Saturday morning cartoon-ish.
Worst dungeons? Hmm... Fractals currently tops my list of one of the best I've experienced, so I guess your mileage will vary. I'm finding I like the non-scripted style much better than something like WoW-scripted dugeons, but that's my own feeling on it. Of course... I quit WoW pre-Cata, so don't know what they may have done to improve that design beyond "follow the script or fail".
Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.
The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.
Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.
The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.
At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.
I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.
The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.
Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.
The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.
At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.
I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.
I am just going to say this. People wanted a game where they weren't having their hands held from the beginning and this is what this game does - OOPS - ' I WANT MY HAND HELD!!!' WHat ddo you want - pick one and stick with it.
People seem not to be able to think outsdie the trinity. That is not the games fault - that is the players fault for ASS-U-ME-ing it plays the same way. I like the way it plays - that is me.
Could the game make it more social - yes. But, again, it is up to the players to make it social, not the game. Big ass dungeon crawls, like the 20 man runs in Rift, are not social. They are anything but social.
Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.
The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.
Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.
The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.
At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.
I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.
I am just going to say this. People wanted a game where they weren't having their hands held from the beginning and this is what this game does - OOPS - ' I WANT MY HAND HELD!!!' WHat ddo you want - pick one and stick with it.
People seem not to be able to think outsdie the trinity. That is not the games fault - that is the players fault for ASS-U-ME-ing it plays the same way. I like the way it plays - that is me.
Could the game make it more social - yes. But, again, it is up to the players to make it social, not the game. Big ass dungeon crawls, like the 20 man runs in Rift, are not social. They are anything but social.
It's not a "carebear" vs. "hardcore" thing: in general, whenever you want people to do something in a new way, it's up to you to explain it to them. There's no sense in blaming people for wanting to do what they have done before in the way they used to do it--any reasonably intelligent person would do exactly that.
Experiments with styles outside the trinity in mmorpg's are a great thing but they need two key components: 1) they have to be viable and 2) they have to be comprehensible. If you create a system that is lacking or you don't explain it well enough, it's your fault not theirs.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Some people adapt better to change than others, that's why. If GW2 dungeons were around before the trinity, people would be complaining about the trinity instead and that it's too restrictive.
Yeah IMO gw2 has the worst crafting of any AAA mmorpg. It's probably why they made it count for so much xp.
I hope other games don't think mystic forge is a good idea because it is not. It's lazy and almost no one liked it. Add recipes. Don't add FAKE randomeness.
Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
Worst? Can't say I agree there. What I will say is that it essentially is the same old shit as most other AAA mmorpgs.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You might include newspappers, tv, radio and other media platform as well.
Real journalists and journalism is a dying breed.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Exactly so. These days the mass media is little more than a mouth piece for the corporate state. Its function is to create, shape, manipulate and misinform the general publics opinion.
I' ve already shot down your whole argument. Others have agreed. If you can't talk nice, avoid discussions.
+1
You haven't shot down anything and one or two agreements doesn't mean anything. You were never nice to begin with, so don't try pretending otherwise. Your post history is replete with sarcasm and baiting. It's I who should have known better than to argue with someone like you.
I will not disagree.
Well I feel pretty butt hurt over this because I thought that Massively was somebody that could be trusted. Why would they say bad things about GW2 and give them Game of the Year?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
That you feel that way and ask that question about an article that starts out the way this one does is awesome. I love your posts. You are super incredible and I'm glad you post here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
He obviously hasnt played much of it.
- roles? What roles? OMG its not trinity game, im lost on what to do! I find this most refresing thing in MMOs. Theres enough trinity games if you dont like one thats not. Another thing i find good is leveling time thats just about right to try out weapon combinations and see what your character can actually do and get used to it. Yes, the game doesnt explain it to you like to 5 year old kid, but where has curiosity and sense of discovery gone?
- dynamic events are NOT quest replacements, hearts are quest replacements, events are just events, and he doesnt really know the mechanic, he presumes too much. Events WAI, yah they are a bit less than hyped, but after Rift and...well...Rifts...you should wait and see with those, but GW2 is ton better than Rift in that sense.
- area flow? you open a map and each area has its level shown. And your story moves you through areas. Move...or move not. And they are quite neatly connected from lower to higher level. I really, really cant see his problem. Maybe hes overwhelmed by freedom of choice lol
- yes, you will probably overlevel your crafting level, which is pity, BUT its one of the rare games where you can actually craft top level items. Its so-so. I gind it funny that he compares it to SWTOR and bends the truth, i REd crapzillion items in SWTOR and you DONT "get back most of the ingredients" you get about the same lol
- he rumbles about something that proves hes still a lowbie because he doesnt know that game actually does what he says it doesnt, and i particularly know human thief story and that what he says isnt true.
Its one thing to have an opinon, its another when he just lies about stuff (story in particular). I find it better RPG than SWTOR, you actually have choices that impacts what you actually do, in SWTOR you doesnt, no matter what choice you make everything is the same. And neither game shines in story quality, SWTOR is just as bland and cheesy (and its made by "best story company in the business"...so yah).
If you want to go with the whole 'this article lies!' slant, actually getting some things factually right for yourself might be a good start.
1. Roles aren't explained at all in the game. Heck, even ANet admits the beginning section for new players can be a lot better.
2. Events are paper-thin in depth (were overhyped to hell; remember the 'entire zone would have changed!') and has to act like quest replacements. If you just do hearts you don't have the exp needed to go to the next zone.
3. Area flow is really bad. For an example there's an area called Field of Ruin '30-40' that can only be accessible by going through Blazaridge Steppes which is a '40-50' zone. This is bad map design.
4. Crafting is a mess. When 95% of the things created are not worth the investment and the other 5% are used only to salvage 'Ectos', yeah, its a mess.
5. GW2 story is bad because it suddenly changes focus to this NPC (you'll know when you see it) half way through and have heaps of non-resolved storylines. End of Act 1 is really really bad when it comes to non-resolved story lines.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
FYI, you can get to Fields of Ruin from Divinity's Reach, through an Asura Gate.
This goes along with the whole 'new player' thing where not all races go to DR.
I didn't know about this and area's next to one another doesn't flow at all.
Say I am a new player and I did Diessa Plateu, got to level 25.
Now what? The zone is a deadend. Well, I'll back track to Plains of Ashford (1-15) and do the area next to it which is Blazaridge Steppes a '40-50' zone. LOLWUT?
Just really awful world design.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
That article is criticism? You almost had me there massively.
Well, no you didn't tbh.
That article was the famous Bullshit sandwitch but more like bullshit filled with sandwitch.
Praise hidden inside criticism
I doubt writes on Massively can be critic and less even have an open discussion about said pretended criticism.
I was a new player too, but I didn't have a problem with Area flow. Zones are clearly marked on the map despite being undiscovered, so we can get an idea where to head next. If the zones were arranged in chronological levels the game will feel even more rail type, especially since people are complaining that the game is on rails already. Whatever they mean by that.
If you need orientation the story will guide you around and keep you moving.
After level 25 you are directed to LA - all the races are.
So either you are a new player and will follow the story and hearts or you can follow your own path.
This thing of wanting to play in a way that tries to after the weak points of the game and ignore all the strong points is masochism or acting in bad faith.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
It's not a direct line or anything, but I never had a problem with it. The world map tells you the level ranges of all areas you've been next to and leveling is quite possible and fast in lower-level areas. So as a lvl 25 you could, for example, do stuff around Queensdale or LA or Brisban Wildlands or Wayfarer Foothills -> Snowden Drifts -> Lornar's Pass. Yes, the game doesn't tell you where you should go, but for me, that's a good thing.
Hmm, I just re-read what the article said and what we're talking about is slightly off-topic, because the article complains about nothing pushing you to explore high-level areas, but then contradicts itself by saying that "as you stick in lower-level areas, you get lower-level items... until you're utterly undergeared for areas that are actually at your level".
IMHO this article is a poor attempt at criticism, because it fails to mention the real complaints people have (Fractals, poor PR, culling, bugs taking way too long to fix, bad tooltips, inflation, poor boss design and many others) and focuses on secondary things and stuff that could be easily brushed aside as L2P issues. What weapons work with a venom build? Basically anything, but Spider Venom is a Condition Damage skill, so it works best with a Condition Damage weapon. Does the author really need the game to tell him that? Should it also give him a team build on a silver platter?
Much of the game is very well made, but I have 2 major complaints which have made me stop playing after the first 2 months:
- Worst dungeons in any MMO in the history of the genre.
- The personal stories are horribly uninspired and very Saturday morning cartoon-ish.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Worst dungeons? Hmm... Fractals currently tops my list of one of the best I've experienced, so I guess your mileage will vary. I'm finding I like the non-scripted style much better than something like WoW-scripted dugeons, but that's my own feeling on it. Of course... I quit WoW pre-Cata, so don't know what they may have done to improve that design beyond "follow the script or fail".
Oderint, dum metuant.
Some fair criticism although they range in relevance from very important to only worth mentioning on days when I'm feeling very, very bitchy.
The role confusion one is a key problem and I've used it as an example in other discussions about radical changes to fundamental MMORPG behavior and how it should not be introduced.
Even before release, the rejection of mandatory trinity gameplay was one of the more interesting features of GW2 to me, and the implementation of it hasn't been half-bad...provided you have the persistence and dedication to spend hours doing independent off-game research about builds for different situations.
The game is indeed sorely lacking in help to get you used to the new way of non-trinity dungeon crawling. This is why PUGs, especially in the days shortly after release, were and still are an exercize in repetitive trial and error with many lengthy runs in between. There is nothing in either the predominantly solo gameplay nor in the cooperative DEs or WvW that prepares you in any way for dungeons. Sloppy game play can get you through most of the game world, but not here.
At the very least they should spend some time with articles about viable builds for dungeon runs for each class with some explanation of the logic behind the builds.
I can overlook most of the other criticism about crafting, DEs, zone scalling etc., but the dungeon build identity crisis many players experience is a major flaw that really needs attention.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I am just going to say this. People wanted a game where they weren't having their hands held from the beginning and this is what this game does - OOPS - ' I WANT MY HAND HELD!!!' WHat ddo you want - pick one and stick with it.
People seem not to be able to think outsdie the trinity. That is not the games fault - that is the players fault for ASS-U-ME-ing it plays the same way. I like the way it plays - that is me.
Could the game make it more social - yes. But, again, it is up to the players to make it social, not the game. Big ass dungeon crawls, like the 20 man runs in Rift, are not social. They are anything but social.
It's not a "carebear" vs. "hardcore" thing: in general, whenever you want people to do something in a new way, it's up to you to explain it to them. There's no sense in blaming people for wanting to do what they have done before in the way they used to do it--any reasonably intelligent person would do exactly that.
Experiments with styles outside the trinity in mmorpg's are a great thing but they need two key components: 1) they have to be viable and 2) they have to be comprehensible. If you create a system that is lacking or you don't explain it well enough, it's your fault not theirs.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED