Originally posted by Tayah We need more good sanbox mmorpgs. I'm glad companies are finally coming around to this, and HOPEFULLY, we'll start seeing them stop cloning. One thing I didn't like that he said though was Free to play...ugh...I've never played an mmorpg yet that has held my attention more than a month or two when it was a buy to play or free to play. I'd much rather a good subscription game. We'll have to see how it goes with EQ Next I guess.
Sadly F2P is here to stay ,it brings far more cash then sub fees ;/ but hopefully maybe it could be sub In the end it all comes down to smelly pleasing the share holders ;/
As someone that has been extremely critical of Smedley in the past, I think maybe he is finally opening his eyes and ears. Maybe he finally sees that the MMO market has room for growth in the direction it was meant to be taken back in the day - when we had persistent game worlds and not theme parks. Time will tell if he actually delivers on what he is saying - but I remain an optimist. If he does turn SOE around and delivers better games in the future I will be the first to jump on the SOE bandwagon. They did give US EQ and SWG, and SWG was one of my all time favorite MMO's. Here is to hoping Smedley is not just telling us what we want to hear.
WHen you can start a new game, already know how to move, fight and pretty much everything else. There isnt alot of "newness" to anything. YOu quiclkly run out into the world and start your level grind, which you can get to lvl 10 in almost any MMO now in a hour or two, dont have to worry about death. Casue it doesnt mean anything. And away you go.
Sounds fimiliar right? Like that last 5-10 "new" MMO's that have come out. We have adapted to the WoW style of game (which lets be honest, it was a great thing. AT THE TIME") But now they are all the same. We as gamers dont have to learn. Because we already know. Becuase MMO's are now main stream they have also become.....Friendlier? There is no risk anymore. RUn in. Die. Rez. No big deal.
Smead went from king of the castle with EQ. To being like the rest of us and watching the beast we know as WoW come in and dominate the market. We have then tried to copy that game. Over, and over, and over again....While some have been moderate sucess stories and otthers not so much. It has been the same mold.
We are ready for something new, we want something new. But it will take someone with a BIG set of stones to do that. And will it has the same success as WoW? I dont think that we will ever see that again, and that could be a very limiting factor. The return on investment. MMO's have gone from people who loved RPG and going out on a limb and doing something that they love . To BIG buissness.
People with a passion Vs Big money are two different beast. For us gamers it never seems to turn out well. So here is for crossing my fingers and wishing them well. Im not going to get my hopes up. But ill certainly been keeping my eyes open to this new game
Originally posted by Caldrin Well after how well they have handled PS2 I am now looking forward to EQ:next quite a bit.. they have restored my faith in SOE.
I am not a big Smedley fan or even SOE for that matter, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Now whether he can produce what he is talking about is another matter. The funny thing is he invented the existing themepark design with EQ.
Originally posted by evilastro Smed is all talk. The proof is in the pudding, I will believe what he is saying when he releases some solid info / footage of EQNext.
Originally posted by Fendel84M How great would it be with all the trash talk about SOE if they end up being the ones to bring back the sandbox on a large scale. The haters would be butt hurt to the extreme since they all vowed not to touch SOE ever again.
It would be one of the funnier things I've seen. People loved their games, then hated them, maybe we are coming full circle.
Looks like SOE has seen the light, at least partly, with the admission that the current themepark model doesn't work. The themepark model works for loads of players, plenty of people buy the games - but the customers don't like the games long enough to make the model work financially.
Cue in the sandbox appraoch. Sure, you get less players initially - but those you get play (and pay) for many more months.
Now, if only SOE would see the light too with their business model. Just make it a subscription game with a free trial and ditch all this F2P nonsense.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
You can make almost any game work if you correctly budget for the amount of money you'll bring in. Making a high quality clone has paid off for Rift, while SWTOR misjudgements have caused problems.
While this sort of talk flows like mana to some ears, just look at the entertainment business's other patterns. Every summer, blockbusters with roughly similar explosions, shooting, action, and lackluster story and sense make a ton of money. Most are sequels and remakes.
Fans of the old school have to hope that this talk is serious, and that what comes of it will be good, and make enough money to prove the model to be viable. At least Sony doesn't tend to kill of their creations at the drop of a hat, like some.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Umm, isnt Smedley one of the very people that has been keeping MMOs "stagnant and stuck"?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
You know what is rediculous in Smedley saying this ... STAR WARS WAS A DAMN SANDBOX .. They completely destroyed that game and lost 240k subscriptions in 30 days ... Are we to honestly believe that now you want to make a living breathing world when you already had it and destroyed it?
I wouldn't play your sandbox game if it bites me in the ass because sure enough 2 years after release you will completely morph the game into the status quo.
People from SWG asked for small tweaks and bug fixes and they got the Nge/WOW clone. People will not forget what you did to your first sandbox and you tried to tell the players this is what you asked for and it was not. After 240k subscriptions left you you held to your guns and said "this is a better version of the game", a couple of years later SWG was cancelled and you lost your liscense with Lucas ... I guess it wasn't a better version after all. No one at SOE would own up to their mistake and change it back, you wouldn't offer a classic server for those 240k who refused to play the garbage you replaced it with, so give them one reason why ANYONE should trust anything you say.
well atleast 1 of those points, you can already know wont happen - atleast I d expect them to have no visual zones in EQ Next : P but ofc, Smed pretty much confirmed that there would be raids in EQNext at the fanfaire - saying EQ players expect to see raids in a game with this name
You know what is rediculous in Smedley saying this ... STAR WARS WAS A DAMN SANDBOX .. They completely destroyed that game and lost 240k subscriptions in 30 days ... Are we to honestly believe that now you want to make a living breathing world when you already had it and destroyed it?
I wouldn't play your sandbox game if it bites me in the ass because sure enough 2 years after release you will completely morph the game into the status quo.
People from SWG asked for small tweaks and bug fixes and they got the Nge/WOW clone. People will not forget what you did to your first sandbox and you tried to tell the players this is what you asked for and it was not. After 240k subscriptions left you you held to your guns and said "this is a better version of the game", a couple of years later SWG was cancelled and you lost your liscense with Lucas ... I guess it wasn't a better version after all. No one at SOE would own up to their mistake and change it back, you wouldn't offer a classic server for those 240k who refused to play the garbage you replaced it with, so give them one reason why ANYONE should trust anything you say.
JUST SAYING...............
SWG was fairly broken on release. It was released a year too early, had character classes that never worked, tons of bugs, and had a middle and upper management who ranged from oblvious to the trouble to actively screwing things up.
It was hemmoraging subscriptions before the NGE. In the MMO that I was playing at the time, I remember a whole slew of people who were in the 'I'm just playing this til WoW comes out' camp. You can see that effect in the numbers of a lot of MMOs at the time, that giant sucking sound of people moving to WoW.
They would have been wiser to just work on the problems within the existant framework. They'd at least have been able to keep the folks who really liked that. But I think the game was so poorly built, so broken, that they probably couldn't have reasonably managed it. Hopefully they've learned some lessons since then.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Looks like SOE has seen the light, at least partly, with the admission that the current themepark model doesn't work. The themepark model works for loads of players, plenty of people buy the games - but the customers don't like the games long enough to make the model work financially.
Cue in the sandbox appraoch. Sure, you get less players initially - but those you get play (and pay) for many more months.
Now, if only SOE would see the light too with their business model. Just make it a subscription game with a free trial and ditch all this F2P nonsense.
I think Smedley is wrong, subscription based mmorpgs are not a thing of the past. Blizzard still shows that's not true. I'd much rather pay a subscription than have to deal with a so called "free to play" game that needs the cash shop to keep it going.
Sony Online Entertainment's John Smedley has some advice for the future MMOs: "to change the way we do this", even including Sony's games in the statement. Most MMOs today are stuck in the current model of developing content that is quickly eaten up by locusts. This, according to Smed, has to change.
strange, few years ago Smed turned a sandbox into the themepark which was the future according to him.
I wonder what the general reaction of all other MMO developers out there is when they hear Smed knows how MMO's should be made.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Well, I hope they bring something out with depth to it, quality harvesting/crafting, pve with open dungeons, raid areas for all those that like raids, starter areas again for races, big world that is not cut/paste, but has interesting spots to xp hunt. I also look forward to the alluded too content tool, making players DMs to an extent.
They could come out with a content kit, and maybe have some type of approval process, otherwise it would probably be abused.
I just hope they get away from all this personal story, phasing, rails, and instances.
Bring back earlier EQ1 type dungeons, trains (even though they can suck, it added to the adventure/experience having to keep watch and identify trouble areas/safe spots)...
Smed can then buy UO, re-release official classic type servers, and release content in the style of the original game....Then he can do the same for SWG, balance it, nerf the buffs down to where you are not superman, and add sandbox type content.
Well, I hope they bring something out with depth to it, quality harvesting/crafting, pve with open dungeons, raid areas for all those that like raids, starter areas again for races, big world that is not cut/paste, but has interesting spots to xp hunt. I also look forward to the alluded too content tool, making players DMs to an extent.
They could come out with a content kit, and maybe have some type of approval process, otherwise it would probably be abused.
I just hope they get away from all this personal story, phasing, rails, and instances.
Bring back earlier EQ1 type dungeons, trains (even though they can suck, it added to the adventure/experience having to keep watch and identify trouble areas/safe spots)...
Smed can then buy UO, re-release official classic type servers, and release content in the style of the original game....Then he can do the same for SWG, balance it, nerf the buffs down to where you are not superman, and add sandbox type content.
Not asking for much....
In all honesty ... the Jedi being an Unlocked class to me was the most fun aspect of the game ... the excitement around unlocking was fun for the entire guild, everyone helped with resources for the budding new jedi to make his/her saber, helped in the hunt for crystals and pearls. I enjoyed it being an alpha class .... believe it or not MOST jedi's played other characters half the time .. I favored my combat medic over my jedi but sometimes i'd get on my jedi just because.
Classes will NEVER be balanced in any game ... if it were it would not be fun. There is always a class that should have an advantage over your class or a certain string of classes. If classes were balanced well then no one would die and the game would implode!
That is the biggest agrevation to me in any argument about class balance. People have no concept in learning to play your class .... some of the classes that were considered horrible played by a player who knows the ins and outs of their class I have seen destroy an entire group of individuals, and then the OMG you are exploiting starts....... seriously before you start asking for class balance think about it ... try learning one class extremely well and you will see that every class has its vulnerable points.
Originally posted by evilastro Smed is all talk. The proof is in the pudding, I will believe what he is saying when he releases some solid info / footage of EQNext.
Exactly what I was thinking. If I wanted to listen to someone who says what I want to hear, I would listen to a politican.
Comments
Sadly F2P is here to stay ,it brings far more cash then sub fees ;/ but hopefully maybe it could be sub
In the end it all comes down to smelly pleasing the share holders ;/
WHen you can start a new game, already know how to move, fight and pretty much everything else. There isnt alot of "newness" to anything. YOu quiclkly run out into the world and start your level grind, which you can get to lvl 10 in almost any MMO now in a hour or two, dont have to worry about death. Casue it doesnt mean anything. And away you go.
Sounds fimiliar right? Like that last 5-10 "new" MMO's that have come out. We have adapted to the WoW style of game (which lets be honest, it was a great thing. AT THE TIME") But now they are all the same. We as gamers dont have to learn. Because we already know. Becuase MMO's are now main stream they have also become.....Friendlier? There is no risk anymore. RUn in. Die. Rez. No big deal.
Smead went from king of the castle with EQ. To being like the rest of us and watching the beast we know as WoW come in and dominate the market. We have then tried to copy that game. Over, and over, and over again....While some have been moderate sucess stories and otthers not so much. It has been the same mold.
We are ready for something new, we want something new. But it will take someone with a BIG set of stones to do that. And will it has the same success as WoW? I dont think that we will ever see that again, and that could be a very limiting factor. The return on investment. MMO's have gone from people who loved RPG and going out on a limb and doing something that they love . To BIG buissness.
People with a passion Vs Big money are two different beast. For us gamers it never seems to turn out well. So here is for crossing my fingers and wishing them well. Im not going to get my hopes up. But ill certainly been keeping my eyes open to this new game
Totaly agree with this.
110% this
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
It would be one of the funnier things I've seen. People loved their games, then hated them, maybe we are coming full circle.
I am starting to think so too...
Before i log in i'm going to say three words.
Age Of Wushu.
Looks like SOE has seen the light, at least partly, with the admission that the current themepark model doesn't work. The themepark model works for loads of players, plenty of people buy the games - but the customers don't like the games long enough to make the model work financially.
Cue in the sandbox appraoch. Sure, you get less players initially - but those you get play (and pay) for many more months.
Now, if only SOE would see the light too with their business model. Just make it a subscription game with a free trial and ditch all this F2P nonsense.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
We need Star Wars Galaxies again!
You can make almost any game work if you correctly budget for the amount of money you'll bring in. Making a high quality clone has paid off for Rift, while SWTOR misjudgements have caused problems.
While this sort of talk flows like mana to some ears, just look at the entertainment business's other patterns. Every summer, blockbusters with roughly similar explosions, shooting, action, and lackluster story and sense make a ton of money. Most are sequels and remakes.
Fans of the old school have to hope that this talk is serious, and that what comes of it will be good, and make enough money to prove the model to be viable. At least Sony doesn't tend to kill of their creations at the drop of a hat, like some.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
You know what is rediculous in Smedley saying this ... STAR WARS WAS A DAMN SANDBOX .. They completely destroyed that game and lost 240k subscriptions in 30 days ... Are we to honestly believe that now you want to make a living breathing world when you already had it and destroyed it?
I wouldn't play your sandbox game if it bites me in the ass because sure enough 2 years after release you will completely morph the game into the status quo.
People from SWG asked for small tweaks and bug fixes and they got the Nge/WOW clone. People will not forget what you did to your first sandbox and you tried to tell the players this is what you asked for and it was not. After 240k subscriptions left you you held to your guns and said "this is a better version of the game", a couple of years later SWG was cancelled and you lost your liscense with Lucas ... I guess it wasn't a better version after all. No one at SOE would own up to their mistake and change it back, you wouldn't offer a classic server for those 240k who refused to play the garbage you replaced it with, so give them one reason why ANYONE should trust anything you say.
JUST SAYING...............
well atleast 1 of those points, you can already know wont happen - atleast I d expect them to have no visual zones in EQ Next : P but ofc, Smed pretty much confirmed that there would be raids in EQNext at the fanfaire - saying EQ players expect to see raids in a game with this name
But then how would his brother Smeagol get in touch with him? Smedley and Smeagol were very close growing up.
SWG was fairly broken on release. It was released a year too early, had character classes that never worked, tons of bugs, and had a middle and upper management who ranged from oblvious to the trouble to actively screwing things up.
It was hemmoraging subscriptions before the NGE. In the MMO that I was playing at the time, I remember a whole slew of people who were in the 'I'm just playing this til WoW comes out' camp. You can see that effect in the numbers of a lot of MMOs at the time, that giant sucking sound of people moving to WoW.
They would have been wiser to just work on the problems within the existant framework. They'd at least have been able to keep the folks who really liked that. But I think the game was so poorly built, so broken, that they probably couldn't have reasonably managed it. Hopefully they've learned some lessons since then.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I think Smedley is wrong, subscription based mmorpgs are not a thing of the past. Blizzard still shows that's not true. I'd much rather pay a subscription than have to deal with a so called "free to play" game that needs the cash shop to keep it going.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Smed blamed himself too in the article
EQ2 fan sites
strange, few years ago Smed turned a sandbox into the themepark which was the future according to him.
I wonder what the general reaction of all other MMO developers out there is when they hear Smed knows how MMO's should be made.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Well, I hope they bring something out with depth to it, quality harvesting/crafting, pve with open dungeons, raid areas for all those that like raids, starter areas again for races, big world that is not cut/paste, but has interesting spots to xp hunt. I also look forward to the alluded too content tool, making players DMs to an extent.
They could come out with a content kit, and maybe have some type of approval process, otherwise it would probably be abused.
I just hope they get away from all this personal story, phasing, rails, and instances.
Bring back earlier EQ1 type dungeons, trains (even though they can suck, it added to the adventure/experience having to keep watch and identify trouble areas/safe spots)...
Smed can then buy UO, re-release official classic type servers, and release content in the style of the original game....Then he can do the same for SWG, balance it, nerf the buffs down to where you are not superman, and add sandbox type content.
Not asking for much....
In all honesty ... the Jedi being an Unlocked class to me was the most fun aspect of the game ... the excitement around unlocking was fun for the entire guild, everyone helped with resources for the budding new jedi to make his/her saber, helped in the hunt for crystals and pearls. I enjoyed it being an alpha class .... believe it or not MOST jedi's played other characters half the time .. I favored my combat medic over my jedi but sometimes i'd get on my jedi just because.
Classes will NEVER be balanced in any game ... if it were it would not be fun. There is always a class that should have an advantage over your class or a certain string of classes. If classes were balanced well then no one would die and the game would implode!
That is the biggest agrevation to me in any argument about class balance. People have no concept in learning to play your class .... some of the classes that were considered horrible played by a player who knows the ins and outs of their class I have seen destroy an entire group of individuals, and then the OMG you are exploiting starts....... seriously before you start asking for class balance think about it ... try learning one class extremely well and you will see that every class has its vulnerable points.
Exactly what I was thinking. If I wanted to listen to someone who says what I want to hear, I would listen to a politican.
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