I just spend 4 hours defending that castle last week, what was the reward for me or my guild? Did my guild get a reward for defending our castle? No, we actually lost a lot of gold buying siege engines and repairing. Maybe we won a little karma but thats it...
This is biggest issue with WvW. The cost of upgrades, and siege equipment is just about as close to p2w as it gets. I didn't say it was, but close. The more you're in there the more you feel and see it. Buying WMDs with cash in a mmorpg is real iffy. At the very least wVw is an amazingly huge and effficient gold sink.
How in the world do you people loos so much silver in WvW? Do the jumping puzzle that are there and you get siege equipment and enough badges to buy extra. I wonder because i always come out making more silver than i went in with. I don't understand how people have money issues because making gold in GW2 is just to easy.
I'm with you. I don't understand it either. I made a profit of about a gold yesterday in 3 hours of playing WvWvW. I guess some people just die way to much.
I cant stand Guild Wars 2 but why does there need to be a point? Isnt the point of playing games to have fun. If your not having that then I guess the game is not for you.
I think his argument is similar to mine. My argument is that the drop rates in the open world are now so abysmal there's no point in logging in. You see my play style has been eradicated entirely. I'm one of the legit farmers that Anet's JonPeter's says he supports and loves, but they still haven't done a single thing about the drop rates 2 months later.
People have given me the same argument you have given the OP. The problem isn't us. The problem is the game. 0 rewards for time spent is still 0. There's no cosmetic rewards to speak of, there's restricted access to karma vendors, there's nothing really for the WvW crowd as far as i can tell.
I am angry about this problem too. He's got a different problem but they are both related.
Lack of rewards for time spent is a very big problem in MMO's because you basically don't get anything from the gameplay.
This game is not a dungeon crawler, it's an mmo themepark with some sandbox elements, it needs rewards to keep players enjoying themselves.
Even the elephant in the room knows that. So they added currencies you can actually use without the need for others coming to help (like they have in Orr right now, requires at least 5 man to buy anything). They need something similar for WvW and they need rankings from what I've read.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Tctc: So basicly pve Mario to pay for pvp?
Its just one easy way to get siege equipment. A very easy way. I mean i guess it could be difficult if you are getting ganked but its still one way of getting some siege without having to spend any of your money. I rather enjoy the pvp in GW2 even without knowing who it is im attacking. I like how everyone rallys together in WvW. Seems some people are still use to being the person people feared or atleast acknoledged when it comes to world pvp. Had my fair share of that in Aion for almost 3 years on Zikel. But thats not what GW2 is about!
What is the "point" of any activity in any game? Where is the true value of anything that comes from a videogame? Maybe you should figure that one out.
Sure, enjoyment is the primary factor in past time activities. Whether that be reading a book, watching a movie, playing a game, etc.
Yet in a lot of games I play them because I want to see the story and finish it to its conclusion. Or I might want to see my character get more powerful. Or I might want to conquer the enemy (pvp).
Games do need to have a "point" in anything you do. No? You disagree perhaps? Then why is it, since the very first video games were they literally putting POINTS in games? Or a "score" in other words. You were trying to get a good "score". See? Games have always had a point. Even since they first began. You wanted to get a high score. Or beat the game. Or beat the level. Or beat the boss.
I love GW2. Its a fantastic game. However one thing I'm getting sick of, is fans of the game flaming anyone who has a problem with a part of the game. Where are the suggestions that could make the game better? Not only that, but I've suggested things that I think could be improvements and other fans won't even hear them. It's apparently perfect the way it is.
No its not. GW2 is not perfect and there could be a whole host of improvements to make it better. Giving WvW more of a point could really help things. I'm sure there are some mechanics Anet could add that would benefit WvW.
No game will ever yield some long-term fulfilling feeling. If you look at it like that, you'll get miserable quick, because they are the worst thing to do for long-term fulfillment.
The only value in these games is at-the-moment entertainment. Your reward is dominating the competition at that moment, being better at that moment, coordinating efforts to be better for a moment.
There are surely already many guilds that have quit GW2, but have a fond memory of a nail-biting battle against a prestigious top-ranked competitor. That's what you push for in these games, not some trophy a dev puts in.
If you want something that you can wake up in a year or two and not worry about saying "what's the point?", go pick up a musical instrument, or learn some form of architecture. All of these games will fall from popularity and one day your 'hard work' will be visibly fruitless.
Is not about rewards, believe it or not most of the pvpers are happy if that rewards is just a cosmetic thing. What the PvPers whant is a ¨meaning¨, something to fight for, GW2 doesnt have that. In warhammer that meaning was a ¨war campaing¨ , same with Daoc. Again GW2 is just a casual zerg fest without meaning.
Originally posted by WickedjellyI did it for the entertainment value. Never really was about the reward factor for me. Suppose it depends on what you expect to gain far as how much or for how long you will enjoy WvW.
This ^
A baffling thing to think about, is if you take the OP's mentallity and apply it to ANY other genre, it doesn't make sense. So why with MMOs?
Why do MMOs have to have rewards for everything? Why the carrot? Heck, do you play TF2 for the hats? Do you play BF3 for the upgrades, and then put it down once you got the upgrade u want? Do you play skyrim for the epic axe of badassery, and then quit once you have it?
Seriously, whatever happened to playing games for fun? There are games for those that want an endless reward dispenser (D3, Borderlands 2, TL2, etc.) and honestly, I find each and every one of them to get boring fairly quick. I have far more fun playing game after game of Natural Selection 2, or Starcraft, or Planetside 2, or Civ 5, etc. etc. etc. all of which provide barely any reward outside of the knowledge that I either played well or poorly. But that's part of the fun, isn't it? Taking it upon yourself to tackle challenges, and trying to triumph against greater odds.
WvW may be 'pointless', but It's rare that I have as much fun as I do trying to defend stonemist from 3x as many invaders. I don't fight wars for magic underpants, I fight them to try and win.
Dont ever compare MMO pvp to the likes of TF2 and BF3. Those are real PVP games that take skill, therefore its fun to win at. MMO PvP is a joke always has been. MMO anythings always a joke therefore rewards are required.
Originally posted by Wickedjelly I did it for the entertainment value. Never really was about the reward factor for me. Suppose it depends on what you expect to gain far as how much or for how long you will enjoy WvW.
i stick on that, also w8 for February upgrades on WvW they (Anet) promised : )
but yes there is a problem with the rewards at WvW ... : /
Time and time again gaming companies fall back on pointless pvp that does not mirror why there are conflicts in real life. PvP should result in tangible rewards (territory, gear, resources, etc).
Comments
So basicly pve Mario to pay for pvp?
I'm with you. I don't understand it either. I made a profit of about a gold yesterday in 3 hours of playing WvWvW. I guess some people just die way to much.
I think his argument is similar to mine. My argument is that the drop rates in the open world are now so abysmal there's no point in logging in. You see my play style has been eradicated entirely. I'm one of the legit farmers that Anet's JonPeter's says he supports and loves, but they still haven't done a single thing about the drop rates 2 months later.
People have given me the same argument you have given the OP. The problem isn't us. The problem is the game. 0 rewards for time spent is still 0. There's no cosmetic rewards to speak of, there's restricted access to karma vendors, there's nothing really for the WvW crowd as far as i can tell.
I am angry about this problem too. He's got a different problem but they are both related.
Lack of rewards for time spent is a very big problem in MMO's because you basically don't get anything from the gameplay.
This game is not a dungeon crawler, it's an mmo themepark with some sandbox elements, it needs rewards to keep players enjoying themselves.
Even the elephant in the room knows that. So they added currencies you can actually use without the need for others coming to help (like they have in Orr right now, requires at least 5 man to buy anything). They need something similar for WvW and they need rankings from what I've read.
Its just one easy way to get siege equipment. A very easy way. I mean i guess it could be difficult if you are getting ganked but its still one way of getting some siege without having to spend any of your money. I rather enjoy the pvp in GW2 even without knowing who it is im attacking. I like how everyone rallys together in WvW. Seems some people are still use to being the person people feared or atleast acknoledged when it comes to world pvp. Had my fair share of that in Aion for almost 3 years on Zikel. But thats not what GW2 is about!
Sure, enjoyment is the primary factor in past time activities. Whether that be reading a book, watching a movie, playing a game, etc.
Yet in a lot of games I play them because I want to see the story and finish it to its conclusion. Or I might want to see my character get more powerful. Or I might want to conquer the enemy (pvp).
Games do need to have a "point" in anything you do. No? You disagree perhaps? Then why is it, since the very first video games were they literally putting POINTS in games? Or a "score" in other words. You were trying to get a good "score". See? Games have always had a point. Even since they first began. You wanted to get a high score. Or beat the game. Or beat the level. Or beat the boss.
I love GW2. Its a fantastic game. However one thing I'm getting sick of, is fans of the game flaming anyone who has a problem with a part of the game. Where are the suggestions that could make the game better? Not only that, but I've suggested things that I think could be improvements and other fans won't even hear them. It's apparently perfect the way it is.
No its not. GW2 is not perfect and there could be a whole host of improvements to make it better. Giving WvW more of a point could really help things. I'm sure there are some mechanics Anet could add that would benefit WvW.
No game will ever yield some long-term fulfilling feeling. If you look at it like that, you'll get miserable quick, because they are the worst thing to do for long-term fulfillment.
The only value in these games is at-the-moment entertainment. Your reward is dominating the competition at that moment, being better at that moment, coordinating efforts to be better for a moment.
There are surely already many guilds that have quit GW2, but have a fond memory of a nail-biting battle against a prestigious top-ranked competitor. That's what you push for in these games, not some trophy a dev puts in.
If you want something that you can wake up in a year or two and not worry about saying "what's the point?", go pick up a musical instrument, or learn some form of architecture. All of these games will fall from popularity and one day your 'hard work' will be visibly fruitless.
Other than karma-trains that I just follow the zergs in, I have no use for WvW.
It is pretty much follow the person -> auto attack stuff -> get Karma.
I recall ANet getting feedback on that during the beta, guess the 'we listen' is another cliche for ANet.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Dont ever compare MMO pvp to the likes of TF2 and BF3. Those are real PVP games that take skill, therefore its fun to win at. MMO PvP is a joke always has been. MMO anythings always a joke therefore rewards are required.
i stick on that, also w8 for February upgrades on WvW they (Anet) promised : )
but yes there is a problem with the rewards at WvW ... : /