Just FYI: Every "failed" mmo of late has done better than DAOC did...
I loved DAOC like many of you did, but it did not have nearly the subs that games these days are getting.
Even if they made DAOC 2 perfectly, it likely wouldn't get 10 million active subs and would be considered a failure just like all other games are. WoW pretty much set the bar way too high and no one will likely ever reach it again.
Dude, a game isn't considered a failure for not getting 10 million subs. Even 500k subs can bring in a decent profit on many MMO's if they can sustain it. 1 million subscribers and you're sitting pretty. It may be a failure as a "WoW Killer", or a disappointment in terms of projected subs, but that doesn't mean it failed outright.
If it gets shut down entirely, that means they were losing money and then it can be a failure, except to the few who loved it while it was up.
You do realize that the IP is now owned by EA, right? Meaning whatever hopes you might have about that game is pretty much dead. First and foremost they probably don't even realize the game would have any potential and secondly they would fuck it up anyways. Same goes for anyone hoping for a new Ultima game.
Just FYI: Every "failed" mmo of late has done better than DAOC did...
I loved DAOC like many of you did, but it did not have nearly the subs that games these days are getting.
Even if they made DAOC 2 perfectly, it likely wouldn't get 10 million active subs and would be considered a failure just like all other games are. WoW pretty much set the bar way too high and no one will likely ever reach it again.
Dude, a game isn't considered a failure for not getting 10 million subs. Even 500k subs can bring in a decent profit on many MMO's if they can sustain it. 1 million subscribers and you're sitting pretty. It may be a failure as a "WoW Killer", or a disappointment in terms of projected subs, but that doesn't mean it failed outright.
If it gets shut down entirely, that means they were losing money and then it can be a failure, except to the few who loved it while it was up.
A game isn't necessarily a failure for not getting millions of subs... but it is if you're EA. They aim big. An independent developer would gladly take a few hundred thousand subs for an appropriately budgeted game. But EA would sooner dedicate resources to "the next big thing." And I don't say that to hate on EA, it's just the way large corporations are designed to work.
Just FYI: Every "failed" mmo of late has done better than DAOC did...
I loved DAOC like many of you did, but it did not have nearly the subs that games these days are getting.
Even if they made DAOC 2 perfectly, it likely wouldn't get 10 million active subs and would be considered a failure just like all other games are. WoW pretty much set the bar way too high and no one will likely ever reach it again.
Dude, a game isn't considered a failure for not getting 10 million subs. Even 500k subs can bring in a decent profit on many MMO's if they can sustain it. 1 million subscribers and you're sitting pretty. It may be a failure as a "WoW Killer", or a disappointment in terms of projected subs, but that doesn't mean it failed outright.
If it gets shut down entirely, that means they were losing money and then it can be a failure, except to the few who loved it while it was up.
A game isn't necessarily a failure for not getting millions of subs... but it is if you're EA. They aim big. An independent developer would gladly take a few hundred thousand subs for an appropriately budgeted game. But EA would sooner dedicate resources to "the next big thing." And I don't say that to hate on EA, it's just the way large corporations are designed to work.
Okay, yeah, true, in EA's case it would be considered a failure. Oh well.
You do realize that the IP is now owned by EA, right? Meaning whatever hopes you might have about that game is pretty much dead. First and foremost they probably don't even realize the game would have any potential and secondly they would fuck it up anyways. Same goes for anyone hoping for a new Ultima game.
100% true. Sigh.
EA can't figure out MMOs. Even when they hire/buy experienced developers, their games are invariably stillborn. I have to assume that there's something in their corporate culture that's incompatable with the genre.
They also like to crap on their classic IPs. If you loved DAoC, hope that EA forgets about it.
By way of illustration, please induldge me in a little gaming-related anecdote: The Ultima series was my first (CRPG) love. I couldn't tell you how many hours of my childhood I spent on my IBM PC Jr. searching for mantras and runes. I played through all nine games and most of the spinoffs. My first MMO was UO, which I played for over four years -- longer than most people spend in college. I even met my wife there. The series is important to me.
A new single-player Ultima, with the right care and attention, could be the next Skyrim. Instead, we got "Lords of Ultima," the bastard offspring of Farmville and Evony. If the stars align, fans of the series might also get a flash-based, microtransaction-driven Diablo clone someday. Whenever I stop to think about what EA has done to this series, I feel like I just ran into my high school sweetheart working as a lot lizard.
I have fond memories of DAOC Pre-TOA.. I just don't think with the devs we have today with game companies, that we could get a good quality DAOC 2. Devs today are just too lazy and not innovative, they'd rather copy and paste WoW and put a new skin on it, instead.
Years ago, with mmorpgs, it was all about making a good quality game your fans will love to play. Today, it's about how to make money fast, put up microtransactions shops, and let the game coast, milk it til it's dead, rinse and repeat.
I have fond memories of DAOC Pre-TOA.. I just don't think with the devs we have today with game companies, that we could get a good quality DAOC 2. ...
I have fond memories of DAOC Pre-ToA as well. However, I just don't think that with the players we have today, that we could get a good quality DAoC 2.
You see what I did there.
Really, I believe the DAoC mechanics would make it a niche game today. Nothing wrong with that, I would play it - I play niche games anyway. But the millions of people that buy WoW expansions, SWToR and GW2 don't - they would scream about game mechanics like in the original Pre-ToA DAoC.
I can already see how they would complain about not being able to solo even the mid-level content, about that they went into a dungeon and found another group there that had just killed the boss or that they went into the frontier and were steamrolled by an army on their way to a keep. And then even raiding a keep just because it's ours, you know, so with no rewards at all. I can already see the forum threads: "I took part raiding keep XYZ today, it tooks us 3 hours and I got killed twice and had to run back for half an hour and what did I get for all that? Nothing! That is lame, that game sucks!"
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I was just wandering around Facebook in boredom and I happened upon someone I used to hang out with a few years back. I saw that he had a picture of his character on DAoC to one side and my character was front and center. WOW, that brought back some memories!
I remember 3-faction RVR, everyone trying to get control of Darkness Falls so they could exterminate the other two factions and then farm the place, and epic seige-style battles when we knew we were losing the keep but we would take as many as we could with us before we died. And what other game has so many reactive and complex combat combos anymore? God, those were some fun times.
Unfortunately, the game isn't the same as it was back in the day. There is just no way to go back and relive those great memories.... unless they finally made DAoC 2. Who's balls do we have to twist to get updated graphics, a new UI, and some player-suggested tweaks to bring the game up to date? (Casters that can still cast in combat for one thing.)
LONG LIVE HIBERNIA! Hell, long live Albion and Midgard as well. I loved to hate them.
Edit: I also think DAoC was one of the few MMOs that got the PVP right. You quested in your home zones and went to the frontier to PVP or quest with high danger and high reward. No getting ganked while you quest unless you chose to risk it.
Might want to give The Elder Scrolls Online a glance. It is being headed by Matt Firor (the genius behind DAoC's RvR) and is set in Elder Scrolls Universe. It features 3 faction RvR.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Elder Scrolls Online is likely the closest you are going to get any time soon.
But, like you said, "There is just no way to go back and relive those great memories...."
Indeed as many of the DAOC dev crew are involved with Zenimax and the three realm PVP is DAOC inspired without a doubt.
I loved DAOC back in the day and I am a Scrolls fan too so I have high hopes and a few concerns. Fingers crossed that my Khajiit can take down an Argonian.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
Originally posted by Greyface Originally posted by SiderasYou do realize that the IP is now owned by EA, right? Meaning whatever hopes you might have about that game is pretty much dead. First and foremost they probably don't even realize the game would have any potential and secondly they would fuck it up anyways. Same goes for anyone hoping for a new Ultima game.
100% true. Sigh.
EA can't figure out MMOs. Even when they hire/buy experienced developers, their games are invariably stillborn. I have to assume that there's something in their corporate culture that's incompatable with the genre.
They also like to crap on their classic IPs. If you loved DAoC, hope that EA forgets about it.
By way of illustration, please induldge me in a little gaming-related anecdote: The Ultima series was my first (CRPG) love. I couldn't tell you how many hours of my childhood I spent on my IBM PC Jr. searching for mantras and runes. I played through all nine games and most of the spinoffs. My first MMO was UO, which I played for over four years -- longer than most people spend in college. I even met my wife there. The series is important to me.
A new single-player Ultima, with the right care and attention, could be the next Skyrim. Instead, we got "Lords of Ultima," the bastard offspring of Farmville and Evony. If the stars align, fans of the series might also get a flash-based, microtransaction-driven Diablo clone someday. Whenever I stop to think about what EA has done to this series, I feel like I just ran into my high school sweetheart working as a lot lizard.
I'm not sure it is 100% true. Sure if MJ and company make a game called 'dark age of camelot 2' they could probably be sued, but I don't think EA in any way owns the rights to the historical/mythological/fictional places and names.
Seems it would be pretty easy to make a game in a very similar world, with the same realm names etc, without any legal problems. Hibernia wasn't a name invented for a game, it's a classical Latin name for Ireland. Albion, the oldest known name of Great Britian. The places in the game are real places for the most part, or at the very least prt of very old mythology. EA doesn't own that.
The Secret World doesn't own the 'IP of the world' just because they use real world places.
No, you can't go home again. I mean listen to the limitations being put in place in this thread. I loved x pre y! Do you ever stop to think why those changes were made?
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Something is brewing. Is it MJ's attempt at DAOC 2? I'm really hoping. Been some great discussion in that post ^ and Mark Jacobs himself has answered a bunch of questions.
Comments
Dude, a game isn't considered a failure for not getting 10 million subs. Even 500k subs can bring in a decent profit on many MMO's if they can sustain it. 1 million subscribers and you're sitting pretty. It may be a failure as a "WoW Killer", or a disappointment in terms of projected subs, but that doesn't mean it failed outright.
If it gets shut down entirely, that means they were losing money and then it can be a failure, except to the few who loved it while it was up.
You do realize that the IP is now owned by EA, right? Meaning whatever hopes you might have about that game is pretty much dead. First and foremost they probably don't even realize the game would have any potential and secondly they would fuck it up anyways. Same goes for anyone hoping for a new Ultima game.
A game isn't necessarily a failure for not getting millions of subs... but it is if you're EA. They aim big. An independent developer would gladly take a few hundred thousand subs for an appropriately budgeted game. But EA would sooner dedicate resources to "the next big thing." And I don't say that to hate on EA, it's just the way large corporations are designed to work.
Okay, yeah, true, in EA's case it would be considered a failure. Oh well.
100% true. Sigh.
EA can't figure out MMOs. Even when they hire/buy experienced developers, their games are invariably stillborn. I have to assume that there's something in their corporate culture that's incompatable with the genre.
They also like to crap on their classic IPs. If you loved DAoC, hope that EA forgets about it.
By way of illustration, please induldge me in a little gaming-related anecdote: The Ultima series was my first (CRPG) love. I couldn't tell you how many hours of my childhood I spent on my IBM PC Jr. searching for mantras and runes. I played through all nine games and most of the spinoffs. My first MMO was UO, which I played for over four years -- longer than most people spend in college. I even met my wife there. The series is important to me.
A new single-player Ultima, with the right care and attention, could be the next Skyrim. Instead, we got "Lords of Ultima," the bastard offspring of Farmville and Evony. If the stars align, fans of the series might also get a flash-based, microtransaction-driven Diablo clone someday. Whenever I stop to think about what EA has done to this series, I feel like I just ran into my high school sweetheart working as a lot lizard.
I have fond memories of DAOC Pre-TOA.. I just don't think with the devs we have today with game companies, that we could get a good quality DAOC 2. Devs today are just too lazy and not innovative, they'd rather copy and paste WoW and put a new skin on it, instead.
Years ago, with mmorpgs, it was all about making a good quality game your fans will love to play. Today, it's about how to make money fast, put up microtransactions shops, and let the game coast, milk it til it's dead, rinse and repeat.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I have fond memories of DAOC Pre-ToA as well. However, I just don't think that with the players we have today, that we could get a good quality DAoC 2.
You see what I did there.
Really, I believe the DAoC mechanics would make it a niche game today. Nothing wrong with that, I would play it - I play niche games anyway. But the millions of people that buy WoW expansions, SWToR and GW2 don't - they would scream about game mechanics like in the original Pre-ToA DAoC.
I can already see how they would complain about not being able to solo even the mid-level content, about that they went into a dungeon and found another group there that had just killed the boss or that they went into the frontier and were steamrolled by an army on their way to a keep. And then even raiding a keep just because it's ours, you know, so with no rewards at all. I can already see the forum threads: "I took part raiding keep XYZ today, it tooks us 3 hours and I got killed twice and had to run back for half an hour and what did I get for all that? Nothing! That is lame, that game sucks!"
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Might want to give The Elder Scrolls Online a glance. It is being headed by Matt Firor (the genius behind DAoC's RvR) and is set in Elder Scrolls Universe. It features 3 faction RvR.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I'd happily pay £30/month if it were made right.
Hibernia
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
Indeed as many of the DAOC dev crew are involved with Zenimax and the three realm PVP is DAOC inspired without a doubt.
I loved DAOC back in the day and I am a Scrolls fan too so I have high hopes and a few concerns. Fingers crossed that my Khajiit can take down an Argonian.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
EA can't figure out MMOs. Even when they hire/buy experienced developers, their games are invariably stillborn. I have to assume that there's something in their corporate culture that's incompatable with the genre.
They also like to crap on their classic IPs. If you loved DAoC, hope that EA forgets about it.
By way of illustration, please induldge me in a little gaming-related anecdote: The Ultima series was my first (CRPG) love. I couldn't tell you how many hours of my childhood I spent on my IBM PC Jr. searching for mantras and runes. I played through all nine games and most of the spinoffs. My first MMO was UO, which I played for over four years -- longer than most people spend in college. I even met my wife there. The series is important to me.
A new single-player Ultima, with the right care and attention, could be the next Skyrim. Instead, we got "Lords of Ultima," the bastard offspring of Farmville and Evony. If the stars align, fans of the series might also get a flash-based, microtransaction-driven Diablo clone someday. Whenever I stop to think about what EA has done to this series, I feel like I just ran into my high school sweetheart working as a lot lizard.
I'm not sure it is 100% true. Sure if MJ and company make a game called 'dark age of camelot 2' they could probably be sued, but I don't think EA in any way owns the rights to the historical/mythological/fictional places and names.
Seems it would be pretty easy to make a game in a very similar world, with the same realm names etc, without any legal problems. Hibernia wasn't a name invented for a game, it's a classical Latin name for Ireland. Albion, the oldest known name of Great Britian. The places in the game are real places for the most part, or at the very least prt of very old mythology. EA doesn't own that.
The Secret World doesn't own the 'IP of the world' just because they use real world places.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
For those that aren't aware, Mark Jacobs (creator of DAOC) new game studio recently released a teaser:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/23/mark-jacobs-city-state-entertainment-releases-some-sort-of-teas
Something is brewing. Is it MJ's attempt at DAOC 2? I'm really hoping. Been some great discussion in that post ^ and Mark Jacobs himself has answered a bunch of questions.