Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
For every action/inaction there is a consequence. People that do not exercise good judgement, aren't being responsible for their actions.
That doesn't justify the actions of the scam artist in the least.
But it also doesn't excuse the lack of good judgement on the part of the scammed.
That may be difficult for some in the modern world to understand, and accept, but its the way the world works.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
Originally posted by lathaan naive people make me sick. i mean it. the world isnt a bad place because of bad people, but because of naive people that fall for bad people. its far easier to handle bad people than naive people.
Doesn't matter who said it, really. If one is the type of person that needs to wear a helmet everywhere he goes, life's going to be a bit of a challenge. Maybe in this case, the quote from the poet Thomas Tusser is more appropriate: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
And if you quickly check his wikipedia profile, I wouldn't really call him a person fit to give life advice.
What a coincidence. I wouldn't really call Wikipedia fit to give reference information.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
The mail system doesn't exist to conduct trade - it exists to send stuff to friends/guildies/secondary accounts.
Reading the ticket/report, checking the chat log and the transaction report, then banning the person and having it approved will probably take a couple of man hours, so $20-50 spent to solve a problem that originated in the fact someone wanted to save a tax over in game money with no value (you can't legally turn the in game money into real world currency).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
[mod edit]
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
Doesn't matter who said it, really. If one is the type of person that needs to wear a helmet everywhere he goes, life's going to be a bit of a challenge. Maybe in this case, the quote from the poet Thomas Tusser is more appropriate: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
And here we have another case of blaming the victim insted of the criminal. Thanks for proving my point once again.
Doesn't matter who said it, really. If one is the type of person that needs to wear a helmet everywhere he goes, life's going to be a bit of a challenge. Maybe in this case, the quote from the poet Thomas Tusser is more appropriate: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
And here we have another case of blaming the victim insted of the criminal. Thanks for proving my point once again.
If that's proving your point, then I don't think anyone is arguing with your point. People are blaming the criminal and the victim as well. You believe there is something wrong with that. Others do not.
Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.
"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."
"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"
"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"
Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.
The problem is you are not understanding a thing.
In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.
It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.
However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?
In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.
But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?
Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.
If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.
Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.
LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.
And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?
I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?
That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.
.... Nobody here thinks the person who did the scamming shouldn't be punished. In fact, we don't even know if the other person WAS punished. It could very well be that Anet banned them or suspended them without advertising it to the world. The only thing Anet told the OP was that they basically couldn't force the other party to hand over what they owe the OP.
We all agree that the scammer should be punished. We are also saying that the OP is also somewhat at fault for negligence on his/her part. The OP knew s/he was playing in a video game that lacks player-to-player interaction AND that lacks COD in mail. OP should have been more cautious about trading with another player s/he had never met before. And the OP knew that the TP was the only actual safe way of trading with other players.
The OP should have never sent the full amount right away for the item, especially to some stranger. I thought the general rule of thumb for such trades is you send a fraction of the amount, and then deliver the rest when the other person delivers the item.
No where did i say that the victim shouldnt encur some responsibility in the part they may or may not have played in said inncident, im saying that we as a whole seem to WANT to blame the victim more so then the crimial. And its evident through out this thread.
That can't be because the OP is trying to make the scammer seem like he is entirely at fault, and he is not partially responsible. Not to mention, I think it's given that the scammer should be punished. I don't think that's something that needs to be discussed. As I said before, none of us know if the scammer was punished. It's not like Anet advertises the names of the people they ban.
Instead, we are trying to tell the OP that he should not have done that. The OP shares some of the blame for failing to exercises caution when trading with a complete stranger, let alone replying to something in his/her mail that doesn't even have correct grammar. Not to mention the OP not comparing the price of the items to the TP to make sure they are reasonable.
Most of us are of the attitude "Life sucks. Move on and learn from your mistakes." No where in there does It imply that we think the scammer shouldn't be punished. We are trying to tell the OP where he went wrong so this doesn't happen again, though we all have varying levels of sympathy. I think the phrase"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me," is valid in this situation. If the OP fails to learn from his mistake, I, personally, will have zero sympathy for him/her.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
*Reads post and looks out window.... Hmm. No wonder the world is the way it is. Noted*
Well i think im about done with this thread. Its obvious how most of you feel about the situation. Good luck to you and yours in furture endevors and god willing, you will be treated with dignity and respect.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
What a stupid response.
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
You are arguing we should focus on the individual people. And here I agree with you.
But then you go and additionally punish the victim and let the perpetrator go "free".
Well that's some twisted logic in my opinion.
Why focus and berate the victim when there is already a well established villain in this situation.
I really get baffled at this kind of thinking.
Like wise I would hope you see, but I do realize you most probably don't, that you are perpetuating and supporting the problems that exist in the world, by the stance you take.
And finally you did excuse the actions of the scammer. You diminished the importance of their action and excused their behavior, by focusing on what the victim did and by giving most emphasis on what "the victim did wrong".
Essentially you downplayed what the scammer did and as such excused his actions.
And that in it self should be enough to make you ashamed of your stance.
Beat down the victim, let the perp go. Best choice ever, right?
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
*Reads post and looks out window.... Hmm. No wonder the world is the way it is. Noted*
And they don't even realize it.
Then againg I luckily knew about the MMORPG forums reputation before hand and amazingly got pleasantly surprised with some of the posts.
Slowly slowly maybe things will get better with the gaming comunity.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
What a stupid response.
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
You are arguing we should focus on the individual people. And here I agree with you.
But then you go and additionally punish the victim and let the perpetrator go "free".
Well that's some twisted logic in my opinion.
Why focus and berate the victim when there is already a well established villain in this situation.
I really get baffled at this kind of thinking.
Like wise I would hope you see, but I do realize you most probably don't, that you are perpetuating and supporting the problems that exist in the world, by the stance you take.
And finally you did excuse the actions of the scammer. You diminished the importance of their action and excused their behavior, by focusing on what the victim did and by giving most emphasis on what "the victim did wrong".
Essentially you downplayed what the scammer did and as such excused his actions.
And that in it self should be enough to make you ashamed of your stance.
Beat down the victim, let the perp go. Best choice ever, right?
Sounds like the start of a Spiderman movie.
...I've read his post many times. No where in there did he say that the scammer shouldn't be punished. He even said straight up that the scammer should be punished.
Rather than nit-picking phrases from the post, READ the ENTIRE post. He is saying that both the scammer and the victim in this case share part of the blame. The scammer because s/he committed fraud. The OP because s/he was negligent with his/her actions.
And of course it sounds like the other person is blaming the victim. We are arguing about that afterall. That is the subject at hand. So I would expect his post to be about the OP's negligence and sharing some of the blame. No one in here thinks the scammer should be excused for fraud. Everyone thinks the scammer should be punished. However, most of us here also realizes that the OP made a bad judgement call, and hopefully s/he will learn from this mistake.
Here would be a proper analogy:
The classic timeshare on some Island analogy.
Someone contacts you online and offers you a timeshare on some Island. They don't give any details about it, other than the price. If you take up the offer, well that's just plain negligence on your part. Cooperate with the police and try to bring this scammer to justice, but also realize the mistake you made and learn from it. If it happened a second time, I would say most of the blame could be placed on the victim and I would have zero sympathy for the victim.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I will state this again, in bold this time. Nobody here thinks the scammer shouldn't be punished. Everyone here is trying to help the OP realize his/her mistake so the OP won't get into this situation again.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
What a stupid response.
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
You are arguing we should focus on the individual people. And here I agree with you.
But then you go and additionally punish the victim and let the perpetrator go "free".
Well that's some twisted logic in my opinion.
Why focus and berate the victim when there is already a well established villain in this situation.
I really get baffled at this kind of thinking.
Like wise I would hope you see, but I do realize you most probably don't, that you are perpetuating and supporting the problems that exist in the world, by the stance you take.
And finally you did excuse the actions of the scammer. You diminished the importance of their action and excused their behavior, by focusing on what the victim did and by giving most emphasis on what "the victim did wrong".
Essentially you downplayed what the scammer did and as such excused his actions.
And that in it self should be enough to make you ashamed of your stance.
Beat down the victim, let the perp go. Best choice ever, right?
Sounds like the start of a Spiderman movie.
Not even close. The players bad judgement, and *their actions* that flowed from that bad judgement punished them. The question is if they learned from that experience. Some do, some don't. Thats entirely up to the individual. As the old saying goes; "Fool me once,shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".
As for the scammer, we will never know if Anet did anything about them. From my experience, people like that usually end up getting what they deserve, or they end up becoming politicians... ^^ But I stated that they comitted fraud, thus I do not approve of their actions. Beyond that I see no point in going.
I have no doubt that you are confused. Many people today never give any thought to the consequences of their actions. Thats as true on the national, as on the individual level. But reality doesn't really care what ones ideology is. With the results we've seen for many years now.
To recap, the victim beat themselves down (by their own bad judgement), we have no idea what happened to the scammer. I'm not aware of anyone approving of their fraud, and at least some people realize that bad judgement can lead to bad ends. That pretty much sums it up.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
What a stupid response.
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
You are arguing we should focus on the individual people. And here I agree with you.
But then you go and additionally punish the victim and let the perpetrator go "free".
Well that's some twisted logic in my opinion.
Why focus and berate the victim when there is already a well established villain in this situation.
I really get baffled at this kind of thinking.
Like wise I would hope you see, but I do realize you most probably don't, that you are perpetuating and supporting the problems that exist in the world, by the stance you take.
And finally you did excuse the actions of the scammer. You diminished the importance of their action and excused their behavior, by focusing on what the victim did and by giving most emphasis on what "the victim did wrong".
Essentially you downplayed what the scammer did and as such excused his actions.
And that in it self should be enough to make you ashamed of your stance.
Beat down the victim, let the perp go. Best choice ever, right?
Sounds like the start of a Spiderman movie.
Not even close. The players bad judgement, and *their actions* that flowed from that bad judgement punished them. The question is if they learned from that experience. Some do, some don't. Thats entirely up to the individual. As the old saying goes; "Fool me once,shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".
As for the scammer, we will never know if Anet did anything about them. From my experience, people like that usually end up getting what they deserve, or they end up becoming politicians... ^^ But I stated that they comitted fraud, thus I do not approve of their actions. Beyond that I see no point in going.
I have no doubt that you are confused. Many people today never give any thought to the consequences of their actions. Thats as true on the national, as on the individual level. But reality doesn't really care what ones ideology is. With the results we've seen for many years now.
To recap, the victim beat themselves down (by their own bad judgement), we have no idea what happened to the scammer. I'm not aware of anyone approving of their fraud, and at least some people realize that bad judgement can lead to bad ends. That pretty much sums it up.
[mod edit]
If that's not the case then I have to assume you don't mind the current state and condone the abuse of other poeple, but I don't believe that's the case.
Also by giving more emphasis on a honest mistake of the victim than the dishonest choices of th e perpetrator. You are abusing the victim yourself instead of giving her support.
You are not aware of anyone approving of their fraud, yet everyone that says the victim shouldn't blame others for her mistake is doing just that, or is saying that Anet shouldn't do anything about the scammer is doing just that.
And yes there are a few post like that before some sensible people started to protest about it.
And yeah reality doesn't care about ones ideology. As long as there are people that condone abuse, blame the victims and so one things as slavery, child labor and such will keep happening.
But maybe you just like how things work now and maybe you find you have more options to do whatever you want. Who knows.
Or maybe you still don't realize how your actions actually help such scammer continue to do whatever they want.
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
*Reads post and looks out window.... Hmm. No wonder the world is the way it is. Noted*
And they don't even realize it.
Then againg I luckily knew about the MMORPG forums reputation before hand and amazingly got pleasantly surprised with some of the posts.
Slowly slowly maybe things will get better with the gaming comunity.
Maybe another 15 or 20 years.
We didn't create this world, but we're smart enough to recoginize what it is and understand we are responsible for minimizing the risks we take. (or be willing to accept the consequences for our choices, especially the more risky ones)
Should the world be better? Yes? Should the scammer the OP ran into to be punished? Yes. Does the OP share part of the responsibilty for the entire situation? Yes. Is Anet to blame for creating this situation in the first place with no direct player trading? Yes.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
*Reads post and looks out window.... Hmm. No wonder the world is the way it is. Noted*
And they don't even realize it.
Then againg I luckily knew about the MMORPG forums reputation before hand and amazingly got pleasantly surprised with some of the posts.
Slowly slowly maybe things will get better with the gaming comunity.
Maybe another 15 or 20 years.
We didn't create this world, but we're smart enough to recoginize what it is and understand we are responsible for minimizing the risks we take. (or be willing to accept the consequences for our choices, especially the more risky ones)
Should the world be better? Yes? Should the scammer the OP ran into to be punished? Yes. Does the OP share part of the responsibilty for the entire situation? Yes. Is Anet to blame for creating this situation in the first place with no direct player trading? Yes.
So what exactly are we disagreeing over?
On how to deal with the problem and how to talk with the victims.
Although if you go to the start you will notice that not everyone agrees with those points.
Anyway I have said what I wanted others have also made the same point.
If people understand it or not is up to them. As such I am leaving the thread as I don't find it productive posting about it any more.
It's kinda weird how people here still don't realize what they are doing when trying to offer friendly advice. I'll try to make it a little clearer how some of us see it:
OP: Man, this dude just scammed me and Anet told me they can't do anything about it.
Post1: Aww that sucks bro, that scammer was a tool, but bro you should know better!
Post2: I hate scammers but duuuuude! You're so freakin naive, you should have used TP!
Post3: STBY, but you know how the saying goes: A fool and his money...
Post4: Anet cannot do anything for you, move on and learn from it.
Post5: You got scammed?! Well you shouldn't trade with people you don't know!
Post6: Sucks you got scammed, but duuuude, DUUUUDE! Why you hatin on Anet!
Post7: Hey man Anet cannot be babysitting you and holding your hand. Don't be so trusting.
Post8: How long you've been playing mmos? No wonder you got scammed!
Post9: Hey spam his name in genchat. You may look like a fool, but hey at least the scammer can't scam again.
Post10: Why are you whining to us? It ani't like we can do anything about it.
And how some of us would like to see it:
Post1: Sorry for your lost man. What was this dude's name so I can blacklist him.
Post2: How can Anet think this is ok? I mean do they not want civility in this game?
Post3: Hey man post his name on the forums since Anet is not willing to.
Post4: Why can't people like this scammer understand this reflects bad on the whole community.
Post5: Bro you gotta be careful when playing a non-sub mmo. It attracts all kinds of scum.
Post6: Sorry to hear that man. Next time you're on look me up and I'll offer you a good deal to help you out.
Post7: We all understand that scammer will scam, but for Anet to not even bother taking your screenshots?
Post8: Hey I can't replace all your gold (of course) but I can donate a few coin your way. Hit me up.
Post9: Post his info here man. I want to make sure I don't associate with this idiot.
Post10: Hey things like this happen to all of us sometime or another, you just have to carry on.
I know I'm in my sparkly rainbow pony mode with that last bit. But in both examples advice is offered. Just in the first example posters have a very condensating focus on the victim. In the second example, the focus is placed more on the scammer and Anet's action of not taking any action. I mean it really just goes to show you the unconscious negative mentality that plays out in these forums and mmos nowadays.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I already got punished, no compassion my punishment
1. it damaged my holidays (my actions right?) 2. i wont get refund.
Now the scammer must be punished too.. but im smelling he wont even get a minimal 3 days ban, he still in game playing.
What i would had wished to happen:
My account rollback (yes we do have one time rollback card)
The player banned and punished so he learn you cannot rob or behave bad in this game.
(Now i know why he wasnt even afraid when im telling him ill report him)
To the people that support me, thank you very much sincerely. To the people who support the scammer, shame on you and i hope this dont happen to you.
If you want change, get on the official forums and suggest a system that works like SWTOR's where the individual sending merchandise checks COD, and the credits/gold automatically comes out of the recipients funds. If something like this were in place in GW2 this situation would never have happened because the assclown in question would never had sent you the merchandise in the first place & you would still have your cash. The only problem is you can't just send cash first, you have to wait on the stuff to come to you. To perfect but better than having some jack hole taking your cash.
besides you could always call the the twerp out in general chat so everyone knows what he did.
Comments
And thats a shame.
True True!
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Well as low as my opinion on John Wayn is, that doesn't help much.
And if you quickly check his wikipedia profile, I wouldn't really call him a person fit to give life advice.
Doesn't matter who said it, really. If one is the type of person that needs to wear a helmet everywhere he goes, life's going to be a bit of a challenge. Maybe in this case, the quote from the poet Thomas Tusser is more appropriate: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
What a coincidence. I wouldn't really call Wikipedia fit to give reference information.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Obviously the scammer should be punished.
Additionally the OP shouldn't get the 50g back.
The mail system doesn't exist to conduct trade - it exists to send stuff to friends/guildies/secondary accounts.
Reading the ticket/report, checking the chat log and the transaction report, then banning the person and having it approved will probably take a couple of man hours, so $20-50 spent to solve a problem that originated in the fact someone wanted to save a tax over in game money with no value (you can't legally turn the in game money into real world currency).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way. One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach. Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...
Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people? The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer. They committed fraud. Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.
Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^
And here we have another case of blaming the victim insted of the criminal. Thanks for proving my point once again.
If that's proving your point, then I don't think anyone is arguing with your point. People are blaming the criminal and the victim as well. You believe there is something wrong with that. Others do not.
That can't be because the OP is trying to make the scammer seem like he is entirely at fault, and he is not partially responsible. Not to mention, I think it's given that the scammer should be punished. I don't think that's something that needs to be discussed. As I said before, none of us know if the scammer was punished. It's not like Anet advertises the names of the people they ban.
Instead, we are trying to tell the OP that he should not have done that. The OP shares some of the blame for failing to exercises caution when trading with a complete stranger, let alone replying to something in his/her mail that doesn't even have correct grammar. Not to mention the OP not comparing the price of the items to the TP to make sure they are reasonable.
Most of us are of the attitude "Life sucks. Move on and learn from your mistakes." No where in there does It imply that we think the scammer shouldn't be punished. We are trying to tell the OP where he went wrong so this doesn't happen again, though we all have varying levels of sympathy. I think the phrase"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me," is valid in this situation. If the OP fails to learn from his mistake, I, personally, will have zero sympathy for him/her.
*Reads post and looks out window.... Hmm. No wonder the world is the way it is. Noted*
Well i think im about done with this thread. Its obvious how most of you feel about the situation. Good luck to you and yours in furture endevors and god willing, you will be treated with dignity and respect.
Namaste
You are arguing we should focus on the individual people. And here I agree with you.
But then you go and additionally punish the victim and let the perpetrator go "free".
Well that's some twisted logic in my opinion.
Why focus and berate the victim when there is already a well established villain in this situation.
I really get baffled at this kind of thinking.
Like wise I would hope you see, but I do realize you most probably don't, that you are perpetuating and supporting the problems that exist in the world, by the stance you take.
And finally you did excuse the actions of the scammer. You diminished the importance of their action and excused their behavior, by focusing on what the victim did and by giving most emphasis on what "the victim did wrong".
Essentially you downplayed what the scammer did and as such excused his actions.
And that in it self should be enough to make you ashamed of your stance.
Beat down the victim, let the perp go. Best choice ever, right?
Sounds like the start of a Spiderman movie.
And they don't even realize it.
Then againg I luckily knew about the MMORPG forums reputation before hand and amazingly got pleasantly surprised with some of the posts.
Slowly slowly maybe things will get better with the gaming comunity.
Maybe another 15 or 20 years.
...I've read his post many times. No where in there did he say that the scammer shouldn't be punished. He even said straight up that the scammer should be punished.
Rather than nit-picking phrases from the post, READ the ENTIRE post. He is saying that both the scammer and the victim in this case share part of the blame. The scammer because s/he committed fraud. The OP because s/he was negligent with his/her actions.
And of course it sounds like the other person is blaming the victim. We are arguing about that afterall. That is the subject at hand. So I would expect his post to be about the OP's negligence and sharing some of the blame. No one in here thinks the scammer should be excused for fraud. Everyone thinks the scammer should be punished. However, most of us here also realizes that the OP made a bad judgement call, and hopefully s/he will learn from this mistake.
Here would be a proper analogy:
The classic timeshare on some Island analogy.
Someone contacts you online and offers you a timeshare on some Island. They don't give any details about it, other than the price. If you take up the offer, well that's just plain negligence on your part. Cooperate with the police and try to bring this scammer to justice, but also realize the mistake you made and learn from it. If it happened a second time, I would say most of the blame could be placed on the victim and I would have zero sympathy for the victim.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I will state this again, in bold this time. Nobody here thinks the scammer shouldn't be punished. Everyone here is trying to help the OP realize his/her mistake so the OP won't get into this situation again.
Not even close. The players bad judgement, and *their actions* that flowed from that bad judgement punished them. The question is if they learned from that experience. Some do, some don't. Thats entirely up to the individual. As the old saying goes; "Fool me once,shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".
As for the scammer, we will never know if Anet did anything about them. From my experience, people like that usually end up getting what they deserve, or they end up becoming politicians... ^^ But I stated that they comitted fraud, thus I do not approve of their actions. Beyond that I see no point in going.
I have no doubt that you are confused. Many people today never give any thought to the consequences of their actions. Thats as true on the national, as on the individual level. But reality doesn't really care what ones ideology is. With the results we've seen for many years now.
To recap, the victim beat themselves down (by their own bad judgement), we have no idea what happened to the scammer. I'm not aware of anyone approving of their fraud, and at least some people realize that bad judgement can lead to bad ends. That pretty much sums it up.
[mod edit]
If that's not the case then I have to assume you don't mind the current state and condone the abuse of other poeple, but I don't believe that's the case.
Also by giving more emphasis on a honest mistake of the victim than the dishonest choices of th e perpetrator. You are abusing the victim yourself instead of giving her support.
You are not aware of anyone approving of their fraud, yet everyone that says the victim shouldn't blame others for her mistake is doing just that, or is saying that Anet shouldn't do anything about the scammer is doing just that.
And yes there are a few post like that before some sensible people started to protest about it.
And yeah reality doesn't care about ones ideology. As long as there are people that condone abuse, blame the victims and so one things as slavery, child labor and such will keep happening.
But maybe you just like how things work now and maybe you find you have more options to do whatever you want. Who knows.
Or maybe you still don't realize how your actions actually help such scammer continue to do whatever they want.
We didn't create this world, but we're smart enough to recoginize what it is and understand we are responsible for minimizing the risks we take. (or be willing to accept the consequences for our choices, especially the more risky ones)
Should the world be better? Yes? Should the scammer the OP ran into to be punished? Yes. Does the OP share part of the responsibilty for the entire situation? Yes. Is Anet to blame for creating this situation in the first place with no direct player trading? Yes.
So what exactly are we disagreeing over?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Reality:
I already got punished, no compassion my punishment
1. it damaged my holidays (my actions right?) 2. i wont get refund.
Now the scammer must be punished too.. but im smelling he wont even get a minimal 3 days ban, he still in game playing.
What i would had wished to happen:
My account rollback (yes we do have one time rollback card)
The player banned and punished so he learn you cannot rob or behave bad in this game.
(Now i know why he wasnt even afraid when im telling him ill report him)
To the people that support me, thank you very much sincerely. To the people who support the scammer, shame on you and i hope this dont happen to you.
<a href="http://s526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/zori4/Guild Wars 2 Beta/?action=view&current=zoyita.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc344/zori4/Guild Wars 2 Beta/zoyita.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
On how to deal with the problem and how to talk with the victims.
Although if you go to the start you will notice that not everyone agrees with those points.
Anyway I have said what I wanted others have also made the same point.
If people understand it or not is up to them. As such I am leaving the thread as I don't find it productive posting about it any more.
Enjoy the community.
It's kinda weird how people here still don't realize what they are doing when trying to offer friendly advice. I'll try to make it a little clearer how some of us see it:
OP: Man, this dude just scammed me and Anet told me they can't do anything about it.
And how some of us would like to see it:
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
If you want change, get on the official forums and suggest a system that works like SWTOR's where the individual sending merchandise checks COD, and the credits/gold automatically comes out of the recipients funds. If something like this were in place in GW2 this situation would never have happened because the assclown in question would never had sent you the merchandise in the first place & you would still have your cash. The only problem is you can't just send cash first, you have to wait on the stuff to come to you. To perfect but better than having some jack hole taking your cash.
besides you could always call the the twerp out in general chat so everyone knows what he did.