There was never a Golden Age of MMOs, the reason there wasn't was partially due to the things you listed. Bring in the casuals, you will get the true golden age, no the illusion of one the old hardcore population thinks they experienced.
The golden age of mmos everything was never been done before. That type of innovation has big risks. Something game companies try never to do anymore.
Um, that's because the genre was new and it had literally never been done before. That's just not the case today. It wasn't anything magical in the past, just the way reality works.
Quite possibly the single most depressing thread Ive ever read on mmorpg.com, for a few reasons.
One, I miss a lot of the stuff mentioned here, and when I look at (and experience) just how shallow new mmos are (GW2 anyone?) it makes me a little sad.
Two, that a lot of the people responding never got to experience what others are talking about firsthand, all they know are the stories they hear about, how horrible things were and that what theyve got now is so much better.
Yeah, logging into (insert current MMO here) for an hour, running around doing daily repeatables and looking at a chatbox sure puts the MM into MMORPG.
1. Grouping with a reason. You didnt have to, if you wanted to solo there were plenty of things to do, but grouping was more fun, allowed you to advance quicker and gave access to places soloing just couldnt get you. Plus, if gave the chance to meet new people and develop friendships.
2. Crafting with meaning. usually only found in sandbox games, but nowadays eveything below crafting level cap is garbage and no-one will ever use it. Take UO, or SWG, even starting out you could make things people wanted.
3. Non-instanced player housing. If youve never experienced it, youve missed out.
4. Player owned NPC vendors. Sure, they had their issues, but owning and running a shop (see 3) and stocking vendors was such great fun, playing a merchant in MMOs is a great experience.
Community. I remember in EQ i was a jerk for 2 weeks in a dungeon in EQ ksing mobs at lvl 20-25. For years the reputation followed my character. I was REALLY good at ksing:)
Furball Hairball Dwarf Cleric Owner of the dungeon Unrest:)
Well, miss it too. Instead most games are multi-million business deals now made for the masses that look for some quick entertainment fix.
Always funny to read posts from people that complain about having to spam the chat for hours to get a group. Personal reputation mattered a lot in those older games and when people couldn't get a group it was because nobody wanted them in their group.
Those games were much more about social skill than about the skill involved in hitting a mouse button.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".
Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
Considering grouping and playing with other people (as opposed to playing a soloRPG in a multiplayer world) was originally the entire POINT of the genre if you're complaining then you probably should never have picked an MMO up in the first place.
It's like going to a swimming pool and asking them to drain the water because you don't like swimming.
If WoW had never happened we'd probably still have group-centric MMOs but instead WoW brought in a new solo audience who now believe the rest of the genre should cater to them exclusively... There are a LOT of burnt MMO vets looking for a solid game with oldschool values regarding grouping and community, if only a dev would willingly forgo trying to target WoW's solo fanbase for once (seeing as it leads to nothing but failures anyway).
I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but here it goes:
The "entire point of MMOs" is not grouping. Its about sharing a game space with other people.
There is no "solo-audience" - just a large segment of players who sometimes like to play alone.
The oldschool vets are a relatively small audience. Likely a high profile game catering to this crowd would be very risky business. For the moment, you have to settle for indies.
Many of the aforementioned vets wouldn't return to an oldschool game specifically because of those values and the many inconveniences they bring.
Much of the glow of the so called golden age MMOs was just novelty. They were new and exciting then, but if you'd return to them now, they'd be anything but. Try it.
Using impossible stereotypes doesn't give you any credibility or help your point.
Failure, it seems, is largely subjective. One thing is for sure: to my knowledge, every themepark marked as a "failure" by the bittervets has made profit - every single one of them. Yes, even SWTOR.
Meanwhile, these bittervets have only one, just one, example to show the viability of oldschool values.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I don't often post on here but.. What i miss about the old days is...
1) being that Speciltiy Character (Healer), after running a few groups with others and some random poeple who asked you to group with them, would have you on stalker status!!! no sooner you logged in you get a spam from 20+ diffrent people to group with them (nothing better than the feeling of being needed in thoes days, now a day its not even necessary to have a healer around atleast for leveling with the expcetion of dungeons because almost everyone has some sort of self heal or a mass amount of health potions to spam every minute or two to keep themselfs going)
2) The Death Penatly!!! Oh no I just lost 10 - 30% of everything i just gained because I died, Armor beaten to hell I need to repair!! or Find the Healer or hybrid who can Rezz you!!!!!
3) The hard End Game content where you spent hours fighting the boss, not this run in , spend 10 - 15 minutes top clearing your way to the boss then killing the boss in 3 - 5 minutes (longer with cutsceens and phases).
4) Being the healer and in a really crabby mood, grouping up with people and you have that one asshat who just hit an ability and destroyed his/her health with an attack, thinking that your gonna drop all your mana on him/her to heal him up so your party now has massive down time because you spent a good chunk of your mana healling the asshat. Then telling him/her you only get a regen spell, if you can't manage your health with that your dead and don't think i'm wasting my mana to rezz you because you just put us in major down time, you better warp back to your save point and run your ass back here!!
5) The Traveling & learning the areas you're going into or having to go through to get to where you needed to go with the chance of death!!! The Excitement was so nice!
6) Crafting!! having to actually figure out what combination of ingrediants will make items. Hmm lets try a piece of glue, feather, and a tooth... Holy Crap i just made a fishing lure!!! lol...
7) actually having the ability to have your character set to a native language and spend the time to actually learn other character languages so you could commnunicate with them!!! (SWG back in the day had a great system on this) now a day poeple get so mad any pissy if you have your character set to their native language (provided the game your playing allows it).
Golden Age of MMOs? You can't be serious. That's like telling a infant the best years of his life are from the ripe old age of day 1 to 3 days old. More like the Stone Age of MMOs... Or are you seriously trying to tell me that MMOs were at their peak 10 years ago? And what criteria would you based that off of?
Creativity
Popularity
Variety
Technical advances
Saturation
Or are you basing this off some desire to return to the days when connections were slow, variety was counted on 1 hand and populations were making headlines with 100k players (see UO). I mean if you really do miss those things then I can tell you that UO, EQ, AC and DAoC are still alive and kickin. Enjoy!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".
Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
Considering grouping and playing with other people (as opposed to playing a soloRPG in a multiplayer world) was originally the entire POINT of the genre if you're complaining then you probably should never have picked an MMO up in the first place.
It's like going to a swimming pool and asking them to drain the water because you don't like swimming.
If WoW had never happened we'd probably still have group-centric MMOs but instead WoW brought in a new solo audience who now believe the rest of the genre should cater to them exclusively... There are a LOT of burnt MMO vets looking for a solid game with oldschool values regarding grouping and community, if only a dev would willingly forgo trying to target WoW's solo fanbase for once (seeing as it leads to nothing but failures anyway).
I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but here it goes:
The "entire point of MMOs" is not grouping. Its about sharing a game space with other people.
There is no "solo-audience" - just a large segment of players who sometimes like to play alone.
The oldschool vets are a relatively small audience. Likely a high profile game catering to this crowd would be very risky business. For the moment, you have to settle for indies.
Many of the aforementioned vets wouldn't return to an oldschool game specifically because of those values and the many inconveniences they bring.
Much of the glow of the so called golden age MMOs was just novelty. They were new and exciting then, but if you'd return to them now, they'd be anything but. Try it.
Using impossible stereotypes doesn't give you any credibility or help your point.
Failure, it seems, is largely subjective. One thing is for sure: to my knowledge, every themepark marked as a "failure" by the bittervets has made profit - every single one of them. Yes, even SWTOR.
Meanwhile, these bittervets have only one, just one, example to show the viability of oldschool values.
Clearly you have either, 1: never experience a golden age mmo , or 2: are more bitter then the aformentioned "bittervet". You are missing the point entierly. If we the vets have to explain it you won't ever get. But clearly you my friend, are in the minority here.
Golden Age of MMOs? You can't be serious. That's like telling a infant the best years of his life are from the ripe old age of day 1 to 3 days old. More like the Stone Age of MMOs... Or are you seriously trying to tell me that MMOs were at their peak 10 years ago? And what criteria would you based that off of?
Creativity
Popularity
Variety
Technical advances
Saturation
Or are you basing this off some desire to return to the days when connections were slow, variety was counted on 1 hand and populations were making headlines with 100k players (see UO). I mean if you really do miss those things then I can tell you that UO, EQ, AC and DAoC are still alive and kickin. Enjoy!
I think your last sentence pretty much summed it , THEY are are still kicking. Show me a "modern" mmo besides WoW that is kicking?
Certain things are just not possible in giant games that were possible in old games that were populated by a small group of dedicated nerds.
The up side to the huge influx of new gamers and turning the genre into a cool thing to do for most people is the sheer volume of games lately. There are so many poeple buying and playing games we are seeing like 8 major title releases a year these days and yes none of them have aspects from old games but they each have some fun to be found in them just play it suck out the fun and move on to the next
I miss feeling apart of the world and it's community. It felt like I was a part of something meaningful. I miss some of my friends and our city, my pets, and the crazy times we had.
Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".
Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
Considering grouping and playing with other people (as opposed to playing a soloRPG in a multiplayer world) was originally the entire POINT of the genre if you're complaining then you probably should never have picked an MMO up in the first place.
It's like going to a swimming pool and asking them to drain the water because you don't like swimming.
If WoW had never happened we'd probably still have group-centric MMOs but instead WoW brought in a new solo audience who now believe the rest of the genre should cater to them exclusively... There are a LOT of burnt MMO vets looking for a solid game with oldschool values regarding grouping and community, if only a dev would willingly forgo trying to target WoW's solo fanbase for once (seeing as it leads to nothing but failures anyway).
I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but here it goes:
The "entire point of MMOs" is not grouping. Its about sharing a game space with other people.
There is no "solo-audience" - just a large segment of players who sometimes like to play alone.
The oldschool vets are a relatively small audience. Likely a high profile game catering to this crowd would be very risky business. For the moment, you have to settle for indies.
Many of the aforementioned vets wouldn't return to an oldschool game specifically because of those values and the many inconveniences they bring.
Much of the glow of the so called golden age MMOs was just novelty. They were new and exciting then, but if you'd return to them now, they'd be anything but. Try it.
Using impossible stereotypes doesn't give you any credibility or help your point.
Failure, it seems, is largely subjective. One thing is for sure: to my knowledge, every themepark marked as a "failure" by the bittervets has made profit - every single one of them. Yes, even SWTOR.
Meanwhile, these bittervets have only one, just one, example to show the viability of oldschool values.
Clearly you have either, 1: never experience a golden age mmo , or 2: are more bitter then the aformentioned "bittervet". You are missing the point entierly. If we the vets have to explain it you won't ever get. But clearly you my friend, are in the minority here.
Speak for yourself please. I never experienced this "Golden Age of MMOs" either. Although I may be considered a vet I'm not trying to fool myself into believing the best days are behind me. Also, I cut my teeth on UO and never once was I forced, coherced, told, funneled nor hered to group with anyone. I grouped with people because I enjoyed doing it. I never needed a incentive to do so.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
See number 1.
Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.
I miss the community. But then again I can just call my family/neighbours/etc and we can all play nintendoland or some board game thats a lot more fun than most mmos where anything and everything is srs biznis.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I have been playing since EQ and in my opinion almost everything has improved since the "good ol' days," with a few exceptions.
I totally miss keep seige like DAoC had, I miss PVP actually accomplishing something, such as control of a very high benefit dungeon, and I miss seeing the names of the people getting killed on the frontier flashing up for everyone to see. Deeznuts was just killed by Raventree. In your FACE, Deeznuts!! HA! He's mad now, so I know he is going to be looking for me... better keep an eye out.
What I don't miss is standing around waiting for some action, casters that can't cast in combat, and CC that takes out entire groups without them being able to return fire. Ugh, that was the worst.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".
Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
See number 1.
Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.
And here he is as usual on queue.
Go play console games...really, because everything you talk about are console game qualities. MMORPG's and console games are a different genre for a reason. Every damn thread that dares say something about games that take time, thinking, or interaction you are sure to jump on. If you don't like the topic...move on and don't reply with your usual garbble of anti-MMORPG whine.
I sure don't enjoy being able to get to level cap in a month or less (Without really trying), being able to solo almost everything and not have to talk to another person, have quest NPC's marked with ridiculously large "!" and the accompanying quest being 10 feet away and able to complete in a few minutes for some reward you've already out leveld the use of, etc, etc, etc.....
But I don't find EVERY thread someone is talking about those kinds, or talking about things they enjoy in them, or miss from a particular one that is closed down because everyone got bored of it and the population fell off after 6 months or less and do what you do. Just stop already.
Why do you come to this site or play MMORPG's if you don't like them as they were intended. Again...there is a reason they are a seperate genre. I have a full time job and responsibilities, but I still play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which isn't instant gratification, etc. I find or make the time. I take it at the pace I can enjoy it and progress at my own pace. If you can't find the time, then maybe it's time to stop playing MMORPG's or it isn't the genre for you.
And I know this will probably get me a warning or ban, but cripes...enough is enough.
I miss the players being able to accept the small problems because the developers were actually able to join thousands of players all across the world within one game! I remember being enthralled by the aspect that I was playing a game with a guy from farfarawayville. I remember being just one of the people that respected the efforts involved in trying to make something new.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by eyelolled I miss the players being able to accept the small problems because the developers were actually able to join thousands of players all across the world within one game! I remember being enthralled by the aspect that I was playing a game with a guy from farfarawayville. I remember being just one of the people that respected the efforts involved in trying to make something new.
There was never a time when players accepted the small problems. There has been constant bitching about everything since EQ.
I miss groups and social circles that make a huge difference in your play experience.
I miss interplayer dependance in the worst way. Whether its buffs, or leveling content the majority of MMOS cater to the solo player.
While I don't mind soloing, I really dislike that grouping is so undervalued and that large quest chains/phasing are a HUGE DETERENT to grouping for leveling content.
I like specific tasks that are highly desireable to be done to only be done by a group.
Don't get me wrong, I like that there is solo content added to a game. But basically everything besides endgame raid content (and even that is getting solo queueable group finders added in some games) is solo friendly. Which makes groups less and less and less meaningful.
I also miss corpse runs and significance to player death and downtime for healing/mana because the 20 second waits being removed further reduces socialization time. Nowdays a person will quest next to you and never say a word. Its sad. I play my MMOs AROUND other people but not WITH people.
Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".
Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
See number 1.
Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.
And here he is as usual on queue.
Go play console games...really, because everything you talk about are console game qualities. MMORPG's and console games are a different genre for a reason. Every damn thread that dares say something about games that take time, thinking, or interaction you are sure to jump on. If you don't like the topic...move on and don't reply with your usual garbble of anti-MMORPG whine.
I sure don't enjoy being able to get to level cap in a month or less (Without really trying), being able to solo almost everything and not have to talk to another person, have quest NPC's marked with ridiculously large "!" and the accompanying quest being 10 feet away and able to complete in a few minutes for some reward you've already out leveld the use of, etc, etc, etc.....
But I don't find EVERY thread someone is talking about those kinds, or talking about things they enjoy in them, or miss from a particular one that is closed down because everyone got bored of it and the population fell off after 6 months or less and do what you do. Just stop already.
Why do you come to this site or play MMORPG's if you don't like them as they were intended. Again...there is a reason they are a seperate genre. I have a full time job and responsibilities, but I still play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which isn't instant gratification, etc. I find or make the time. I take it at the pace I can enjoy it and progress. If you can't find the time, then maybe it's time to stop playing MMORPG's.
And I know this will probably get me a warning or ban, but cripes...enough is enough.
Like I told the other poster and the OP. None of the things Quirhid are rallying against on his list responding to the OP existed in UO, so maybe he's not looking for another version of EQ? All I see are mechanics listed that led us to this point in the first place. Only difference is that those games that feature those tired concepts are still alive and kickin. It's time for a new direction.
It's like asking someone to make something different after serving you cake for the last 20 years. So they reach into the cupboard and take out all the ingredients they are use to working with and in the end add strawberries. Then they serve it to you and upon first bite you exclaim. Hey this is cake again, only with strawberries! They look at you perplexed because they technically did make something different this time and you facepalm stating that maybe they should work with different core ingredients next time around. And politely tell them for instance if they have an idea in their head to make pie don't start with ingredients used to make a freakin cake.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Death Meant Something: As annoying as it was, doing corpse runs in the original Everquest, oh man, it added a whole new element to gaming to where you were actually cautious and paranoid about the things you were doing because you know if you died... oh man it was a huge issues...
Todays games... death is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.. a small repair bill or whatnot blah.. original EQ death made you not only cautious about what you were doing but it actually made you scared in many a situation and fear is something no mmo today offers at all.
Comments
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Um, that's because the genre was new and it had literally never been done before. That's just not the case today. It wasn't anything magical in the past, just the way reality works.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Quite possibly the single most depressing thread Ive ever read on mmorpg.com, for a few reasons.
One, I miss a lot of the stuff mentioned here, and when I look at (and experience) just how shallow new mmos are (GW2 anyone?) it makes me a little sad.
Two, that a lot of the people responding never got to experience what others are talking about firsthand, all they know are the stories they hear about, how horrible things were and that what theyve got now is so much better.
Yeah, logging into (insert current MMO here) for an hour, running around doing daily repeatables and looking at a chatbox sure puts the MM into MMORPG.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
I'll add a couple extras things...
1. Grouping with a reason. You didnt have to, if you wanted to solo there were plenty of things to do, but grouping was more fun, allowed you to advance quicker and gave access to places soloing just couldnt get you. Plus, if gave the chance to meet new people and develop friendships.
2. Crafting with meaning. usually only found in sandbox games, but nowadays eveything below crafting level cap is garbage and no-one will ever use it. Take UO, or SWG, even starting out you could make things people wanted.
3. Non-instanced player housing. If youve never experienced it, youve missed out.
4. Player owned NPC vendors. Sure, they had their issues, but owning and running a shop (see 3) and stocking vendors was such great fun, playing a merchant in MMOs is a great experience.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
Community. I remember in EQ i was a jerk for 2 weeks in a dungeon in EQ ksing mobs at lvl 20-25. For years the reputation followed my character. I was REALLY good at ksing:)
Furball Hairball
Dwarf Cleric
Owner of the dungeon Unrest:)
Well, miss it too. Instead most games are multi-million business deals now made for the masses that look for some quick entertainment fix.
Always funny to read posts from people that complain about having to spam the chat for hours to get a group. Personal reputation mattered a lot in those older games and when people couldn't get a group it was because nobody wanted them in their group.
Those games were much more about social skill than about the skill involved in hitting a mouse button.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
I know this is going to fall on deaf ears but here it goes:
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I don't often post on here but.. What i miss about the old days is...
1) being that Speciltiy Character (Healer), after running a few groups with others and some random poeple who asked you to group with them, would have you on stalker status!!! no sooner you logged in you get a spam from 20+ diffrent people to group with them
(nothing better than the feeling of being needed in thoes days, now a day its not even necessary to have a healer around atleast for leveling with the expcetion of dungeons because almost everyone has some sort of self heal or a mass amount of health potions to spam every minute or two to keep themselfs going)
2) The Death Penatly!!! Oh no I just lost 10 - 30% of everything i just gained because I died, Armor beaten to hell I need to repair!! or Find the Healer or hybrid who can Rezz you!!!!!
3) The hard End Game content where you spent hours fighting the boss, not this run in , spend 10 - 15 minutes top clearing your way to the boss then killing the boss in 3 - 5 minutes (longer with cutsceens and phases).
4) Being the healer and in a really crabby mood, grouping up with people and you have that one asshat who just hit an ability and destroyed his/her health with an attack, thinking that your gonna drop all your mana on him/her to heal him up so your party now has massive down time because you spent a good chunk of your mana healling the asshat. Then telling him/her you only get a regen spell, if you can't manage your health with that your dead and don't think i'm wasting my mana to rezz you because you just put us in major down time, you better warp back to your save point and run your ass back here!!
5) The Traveling & learning the areas you're going into or having to go through to get to where you needed to go with the chance of death!!! The Excitement was so nice!
6) Crafting!! having to actually figure out what combination of ingrediants will make items. Hmm lets try a piece of glue, feather, and a tooth... Holy Crap i just made a fishing lure!!! lol...
7) actually having the ability to have your character set to a native language and spend the time to actually learn other character languages so you could commnunicate with them!!! (SWG back in the day had a great system on this) now a day poeple get so mad any pissy if you have your character set to their native language (provided the game your playing allows it).
Golden Age of MMOs? You can't be serious. That's like telling a infant the best years of his life are from the ripe old age of day 1 to 3 days old. More like the Stone Age of MMOs... Or are you seriously trying to tell me that MMOs were at their peak 10 years ago? And what criteria would you based that off of?
Or are you basing this off some desire to return to the days when connections were slow, variety was counted on 1 hand and populations were making headlines with 100k players (see UO). I mean if you really do miss those things then I can tell you that UO, EQ, AC and DAoC are still alive and kickin. Enjoy!
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Clearly you have either, 1: never experience a golden age mmo , or 2: are more bitter then the aformentioned "bittervet". You are missing the point entierly. If we the vets have to explain it you won't ever get. But clearly you my friend, are in the minority here.
I think your last sentence pretty much summed it , THEY are are still kicking. Show me a "modern" mmo besides WoW that is kicking?
what you miss is 20 million less mmo players.
Certain things are just not possible in giant games that were possible in old games that were populated by a small group of dedicated nerds.
The up side to the huge influx of new gamers and turning the genre into a cool thing to do for most people is the sheer volume of games lately. There are so many poeple buying and playing games we are seeing like 8 major title releases a year these days and yes none of them have aspects from old games but they each have some fun to be found in them just play it suck out the fun and move on to the next
Speak for yourself please. I never experienced this "Golden Age of MMOs" either. Although I may be considered a vet I'm not trying to fool myself into believing the best days are behind me. Also, I cut my teeth on UO and never once was I forced, coherced, told, funneled nor hered to group with anyone. I grouped with people because I enjoyed doing it. I never needed a incentive to do so.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I have been playing since EQ and in my opinion almost everything has improved since the "good ol' days," with a few exceptions.
I totally miss keep seige like DAoC had, I miss PVP actually accomplishing something, such as control of a very high benefit dungeon, and I miss seeing the names of the people getting killed on the frontier flashing up for everyone to see. Deeznuts was just killed by Raventree. In your FACE, Deeznuts!! HA! He's mad now, so I know he is going to be looking for me... better keep an eye out.
What I don't miss is standing around waiting for some action, casters that can't cast in combat, and CC that takes out entire groups without them being able to return fire. Ugh, that was the worst.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
And here he is as usual on queue.
Go play console games...really, because everything you talk about are console game qualities. MMORPG's and console games are a different genre for a reason. Every damn thread that dares say something about games that take time, thinking, or interaction you are sure to jump on. If you don't like the topic...move on and don't reply with your usual garbble of anti-MMORPG whine.
I sure don't enjoy being able to get to level cap in a month or less (Without really trying), being able to solo almost everything and not have to talk to another person, have quest NPC's marked with ridiculously large "!" and the accompanying quest being 10 feet away and able to complete in a few minutes for some reward you've already out leveld the use of, etc, etc, etc.....
But I don't find EVERY thread someone is talking about those kinds, or talking about things they enjoy in them, or miss from a particular one that is closed down because everyone got bored of it and the population fell off after 6 months or less and do what you do. Just stop already.
Why do you come to this site or play MMORPG's if you don't like them as they were intended. Again...there is a reason they are a seperate genre. I have a full time job and responsibilities, but I still play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which isn't instant gratification, etc. I find or make the time. I take it at the pace I can enjoy it and progress at my own pace. If you can't find the time, then maybe it's time to stop playing MMORPG's or it isn't the genre for you.
And I know this will probably get me a warning or ban, but cripes...enough is enough.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
There was never a time when players accepted the small problems. There has been constant bitching about everything since EQ.
I miss groups and social circles that make a huge difference in your play experience.
I miss interplayer dependance in the worst way. Whether its buffs, or leveling content the majority of MMOS cater to the solo player.
While I don't mind soloing, I really dislike that grouping is so undervalued and that large quest chains/phasing are a HUGE DETERENT to grouping for leveling content.
I like specific tasks that are highly desireable to be done to only be done by a group.
Don't get me wrong, I like that there is solo content added to a game. But basically everything besides endgame raid content (and even that is getting solo queueable group finders added in some games) is solo friendly. Which makes groups less and less and less meaningful.
I also miss corpse runs and significance to player death and downtime for healing/mana because the 20 second waits being removed further reduces socialization time. Nowdays a person will quest next to you and never say a word. Its sad. I play my MMOs AROUND other people but not WITH people.
Like I told the other poster and the OP. None of the things Quirhid are rallying against on his list responding to the OP existed in UO, so maybe he's not looking for another version of EQ? All I see are mechanics listed that led us to this point in the first place. Only difference is that those games that feature those tired concepts are still alive and kickin. It's time for a new direction.
It's like asking someone to make something different after serving you cake for the last 20 years. So they reach into the cupboard and take out all the ingredients they are use to working with and in the end add strawberries. Then they serve it to you and upon first bite you exclaim. Hey this is cake again, only with strawberries! They look at you perplexed because they technically did make something different this time and you facepalm stating that maybe they should work with different core ingredients next time around. And politely tell them for instance if they have an idea in their head to make pie don't start with ingredients used to make a freakin cake.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Death Meant Something: As annoying as it was, doing corpse runs in the original Everquest, oh man, it added a whole new element to gaming to where you were actually cautious and paranoid about the things you were doing because you know if you died... oh man it was a huge issues...
Todays games... death is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.. a small repair bill or whatnot blah.. original EQ death made you not only cautious about what you were doing but it actually made you scared in many a situation and fear is something no mmo today offers at all.