I will never deal with Aventurine,. they are the scum of the MMO world. Tons of sandbox games coming in 2013 to blow DF out of the water.
These guys missed out they started their games 7-8-9 years ago and they still don['t have a working game lol. Only thing now is a game that looks that old and plays like crap.
I will never deal with Aventurine,. they are the scum of the MMO world. Tons of sandbox games coming in 2013 to blow DF out of the water.
These guys missed out they started their games 7-8-9 years ago and they still don['t have a working game lol. Only thing now is a game that looks that old and plays like crap.
None of what you said holds any merits in reality.
This is what "Buy to Beta" is bad. I don't mind pre-ordering by putting 5$ down and getting into beta, but outright buying the game to get into Beta is a waste. Of course you're bound to hate a game. Also, since it is BETA, it isn't necessarily a complete product.
Honestly if a Beta account came with the pre-purchase of a game AND and you filed a claim to get your money back; I'd ban the account too.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
ArticleA charge-back or dispute is a payment that has gone through all the correct channels and has been paid to Avenurine S.A..
In turn, Aventurine has awarded your account, the agreed length of play-time for the paid subscription or completed the requested service. If you have made a charge-back with your credit card company or initiated a Paypal dispute (on purpose or by mistake) for any product or service you have received from Aventurine, your account will be permanently banned and will remain so until the charge-back or dispute has been cancelled. Aventurine considers credit card charge-backs and Paypal disputes to be fraud, if you have made no reasonable effort to work with us to resolve any problems with your purchase.
Comes directly from their site. Next time read before you take action.
/thread
Yep, that shows Aventurine to be fraudsters then.
I agree completely that credit card chargebacks in cases like this as well as Paypal disputes are fraud. It's too easy to win if you're a customer with chargebacks and Paypal disputes; and this is coming from someone that believes there needs to be more consumer protections against businesses.
Want to know why I feel that way? I've had people use those methods to fraudalently get money back from me when I delivered on both commission work for them; and they were completely satisfied. It happened a few times a few months after everything was completed on both sides. People run into various binds or need money, and then they abuse stuff like this since there's no repercussions on them.
After all in what you quoted it clearly says you'd have to receive the product. The product in this case is not only not out, but does not even have a release date.
Well, sure, the entire product isn't out yet. However, what was promised (access to beta) was delivered. So, your argument is nitpicking more so than anything.
He also did not receive subscription time (obviously), and the requested service is CLEARLY nowhere near complete
Obviously. And, unless they fail to deliver that by cancelling they haven't failed on their end of the agreement.
It also says at the end about reasonable effort to work with them, which the OP attempted but they denied and then ignored him.
Just because he 'wanted a refund' doesn't mean he should get one, even if he feels he worked reasonably with them. Their part of the agreement has been fulfilled to the point where they promise it would be (he has access), and part of the agreement states no refunds. Therefore, just because he worked 'reasonably' with them in your opinion still doesn't mean he shouldn't have to uphold his end of the agreement.
Yeah, though the OP did try their customer service
---------------
For contrast, when the MMO Glitch closed down, it could have just shut the server off and been done with it. Instead they not only automatically issued refunds for purchases in the previous 50 days, but also offered customers a choice. They could have their purchases from the past YEAR refunded in full to the customer, they could donate the same amount to charity, or they could choose to let the developer keep the proceeds. This goes far beyond "doing the right thing".
At the other end of the spectrum there is Aventurine which won't allow you to cancel a pre-order to get any of your money back, and gives you only one choice - permaban.
I just feel that Aventurine could do with a little positive customer relations. Places like Best Buy offer refunds for purchased, opened, used products and return the money. They do this at a loss, but know that keeping customers happy and returning is good business sense.
Doesn't Aventurine want future customers? Doesn't Aventurine want a future?
You do realise ofc that there is a fucking huge difference between a game which closes down and offers refunds to players who are long time paying customers and someone who pays money explictly to take advantage of a pre launch access, only to have a boo about being banned when he has asked for his money back which is required for that pre launch access?
If and only if the guy never gets his money back, then he may have a point to grumble. But as it stands he is looking to recoup all of his money and essentially have gained a load of free game time which should by rights, require you to pay for. It is more than fair and more than right, that his account is banned whilst his refund is resolved. He has declared that he is not interested in the paid for beta and wants all of his money back. As such he should not be given any additional free access whilst his claim is resolved.
Perhaps AV are crap/slow at getting him his refund back ASAP, but they are completely right to instantly ban the account as soon as he put the request in, whether he did so via AV directly, or via a third party.
Should the refund process have been faster/made easier... perhaps.
Should he be banned from accessing the game after putting in a refund request... yes ofc, it is amazing that anyone would think otherwise. "Hurr give him more free time!!!", er no.
So why wouldn't AV make it so he couldn't play on his account, but was able to play again later provided he paid them? Especially if they were the ones processing the refund? I
Who the hell want's to deal with customers who can't uphold a contract they agreed too?
He's simply not worth the trouble.
I'm not sure how things are in Germany, but in the USA many very large corporations and retailers, and even the small businesses, accept returns and provide refunds in a quick and easy manner. Even on TV ads they offer money back guarantees if you aren't completely satisfied.
Businesses that are successful find it worth the trouble to provide refunds.
If a department store didn't accept refunds for clothes that didn't fit once the person they were gifted to tried them on, and instead told the customer they could never shop with their company again, how well do you think that would go?
But yeah, Aventurine is indie and making a ffa pvp game so of course they're way above any accountability with players.
Good! People pay to "try" a game with these pre-orders, then cancel, that's the problem with the pay to beta nowadays, can't get real testers, just people like the OP.
The rules were CLEARLY set out and was obviously accepted, the rules stated MORE THA ONCE that what you are paying for is the first months use AFTER RELEASE, the BETA is FREE.
You cancelled prematurally, not knowing i.e. reading the rules, that you did accept...
Goes with much in life, know what you are buying BEFORE COMMITMENT.
Who the hell want's to deal with customers who can't uphold a contract they agreed too?
He's simply not worth the trouble.
I'm not sure how things are in Germany, but in the USA many very large corporations and retailers, and even the small businesses, accept returns and provide refunds in a quick and easy manner. Even on TV ads they offer money back guarantees if you aren't completely satisfied.
Businesses that are successful find it worth the trouble to provide refunds.
If a department store didn't accept refunds for clothes that didn't fit once the person they were gifted to tried them on, and instead told the customer they could never shop with their company again, how well do you think that would go?
But yeah, Aventurine is indie and making a ffa pvp game so of course they're way above any accountability with players.
It's in most countrys roughly the same, problem is your examples are not digital games and therefore in no way relevant to this as the laws are different for different goods.
Your last line is funny, you speak of accountability of the company and completly forget accountability of the guy who agreed to the terms. Seriously who thinks that agreeing to contracts and then ignoring them is valid bussiness practice?
Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.
Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.
Jed
Many try to do the no refund even for pre-orders if you use the key. It's simply standered practice. If you don't use the key it's usually a non issue and your account isn't banned. In any case this has never stopped me If I want a refund, I will get a refund. Whether I have to go through paypal, my bank, or other means.
Also if you haven't received your refund yet you need to contact Paypal and see whats going on because it's on their end now.
Lastly, believe what you will but your last statement comes off as someone simply attempting to try and troll a game he/she doesn't like so it might be wise to avoid statements like that if you want others to believe your post is more than trolling.
OP got banned not for wanting a refund, but for getting one the wrong way.
Noone is going to ban you just for wanting a refund. Disregarding the company's refund policies and forcing a chargeback is a bannable offense however,
To reiterate what I said earlier, while refunds can generally be done quickly, when we are talking about Paypal and credit cards, a dispute process can take thirty days, sometimes more. It seems he is due a refund assuming there are no other mitigating facts hiding in the bushes, so if he doesn't get it, then I will join in the boos at the devs. But as far as being banned, nope. A company has to do that because otherwise people would just enjoy services rent-free by abusing the dispute process.
Im a little confused. What would be a more acceptable outcome OP? Other than getting your money back?
That they would allow you to keep playing? Of course they're going to ban you from beta. But since you didn't like the game anyways, why even post about it? Why do you care?
Is this to let the community know that if you try and get a refund from Darkfall you won't be able to play it anymore? I mean if that's the case then thanks for letting everyone know I guess. Although its about the most common sense thing I could possibly think off.
Well, it's the same thing as going to wal-mart and asking to return your Video Game. They deny your refund but they take away the game. You lose, they win.
Not really, because if you return a game to wal-mart, they are taking the game in exchange for money. You can't do this for a program. He would be getting money back, but still have the ability to play the game.
Im a little confused. What would be a more acceptable outcome OP? Other than getting your money back?
That they would allow you to keep playing? Of course they're going to ban you from beta. But since you didn't like the game anyways, why even post about it? Why do you care?
Is this to let the community know that if you try and get a refund from Darkfall you won't be able to play it anymore? I mean if that's the case then thanks for letting everyone know I guess. Although its about the most common sense thing I could possibly think off.
Well, it's the same thing as going to wal-mart and asking to return your Video Game. They deny your refund but they take away the game. You lose, they win.
No wal-mart just doesn't take your game and can't after you buy it.
If you people would read the OP is saying he didn't get a refund when asked for it but got banned instead without the product he paid for nor the refund.
Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.
Jed
I hope you have better luck than I:
Status
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.
What's interesting is that I initiated the PayPal dispute because AV was not responding to my inquiries. I simply used PayPal as a way to communicate with them that they couldn't just ignore. AV were the ones who escalated it to an actual claim, not me:
12/29/2012 00:59 PST - PayPal: Seller escalated this dispute to a Claim.
12/29/2012 00:59 PST - Seller: Dear Paypal Resolution Center,Darkfall is a Massive Multiplayer Online game (currently in beta), which is distributed through our online store. By per-ordering Darkfall Unholy Wars, our customer gets the game client together with 30 days of subscription for the price of Euro/USD 29.95 instead of EUR/USD 39.95, they also can reserve their character name and finally they are allowed to participate in Beta Testing. Their subscription will be activated only after the launch of DF Unholy Wars, (January 2013) and therefore there is no charge while our customers are beta testing DF Unholy Wars. In our website http://www.darkfallonline.com/ we are clearly informing our community that the game is currently in beta, while the terms of the preorder ,which can be found at https://ams.darkfallonline.com/AMS/Terms.html, and which our customers have to accept before they place their pre- order, are describing in detail all the terms and conditions of the service. Since the game is not officially launched, we cannot accept any breach of our no refund policy. Our policy is clearly stated at http://www.darkfallonline.com/legal in the Terms of Sales, as well as on the EULA and Terms of Service, in which the customer has to accept in order to pre-order Darkfall: Unholy Wars. We are obliged to follow our No Refund policy and therefore we will not be able to issue any refund.We are attaching the customers transaction history file, directly from Vindicia's Platform, as a proof of shipment and immediate activation of the service: .Darkfall Support
12/28/2012 16:52 PST - Buyer: I would like to cancel my pre-order for 'Darkfall: Unholy Wars' and receive a full refund.
I fully acknowledge that I didn't read all the fine print when I pre-ordered as you would have to read all of it to find the "no refunds" language buried in there. Had they simply replied to my inquiry showing me the "no refund" policy I would have stopped the dispute process right there. Instead they replied and escalated the dispute to a Claim at the same time, leaving no way to settle it amicably.
Honestly I knew I was taking a risk when I opened started the dispute process, but IMO the game is so terrible I really felt like I had nothing to lose.
Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.
Jed
I hope you have better luck than I:
Status
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.
Comments
I will never deal with Aventurine,. they are the scum of the MMO world. Tons of sandbox games coming in 2013 to blow DF out of the water.
These guys missed out they started their games 7-8-9 years ago and they still don['t have a working game lol. Only thing now is a game that looks that old and plays like crap.
GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!
None of what you said holds any merits in reality.
This is what "Buy to Beta" is bad. I don't mind pre-ordering by putting 5$ down and getting into beta, but outright buying the game to get into Beta is a waste. Of course you're bound to hate a game. Also, since it is BETA, it isn't necessarily a complete product.
Honestly if a Beta account came with the pre-purchase of a game AND and you filed a claim to get your money back; I'd ban the account too.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Umm...He could just make and buy a new account?
/thread, seriously, just make a new account?
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Make a new forum account then purchase the game again. Since you your account is currenlty linked to you forum account.
I was agreeing with you that is what he should do heh.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
LOL
the question mark threw me off 
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
I'm not sure how things are in Germany, but in the USA many very large corporations and retailers, and even the small businesses, accept returns and provide refunds in a quick and easy manner. Even on TV ads they offer money back guarantees if you aren't completely satisfied.
Businesses that are successful find it worth the trouble to provide refunds.
If a department store didn't accept refunds for clothes that didn't fit once the person they were gifted to tried them on, and instead told the customer they could never shop with their company again, how well do you think that would go?
But yeah, Aventurine is indie and making a ffa pvp game so of course they're way above any accountability with players.
I'm sorry, I must defend AV on this one.
The rules were CLEARLY set out and was obviously accepted, the rules stated MORE THA ONCE that what you are paying for is the first months use AFTER RELEASE, the BETA is FREE.
You cancelled prematurally, not knowing i.e. reading the rules, that you did accept...
Goes with much in life, know what you are buying BEFORE COMMITMENT.
enough said.
It's in most countrys roughly the same, problem is your examples are not digital games and therefore in no way relevant to this as the laws are different for different goods.
Your last line is funny, you speak of accountability of the company and completly forget accountability of the guy who agreed to the terms. Seriously who thinks that agreeing to contracts and then ignoring them is valid bussiness practice?
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Just another update for everyone...still no funds have been returned..still perma-banned. I will say one thing about this...you know, I the only reason a company would adhere to this "no refunds" policy for a pre-order is because they know their product is so bad that everyone would cancel as soon as they saw it in beta. This is to protect them from all the money they have stolen from loyal customers. It disgusts me to see a company treat it's customers this way, and anyone who defends that kind of behaviour are the same type who would sell piss to someone on the street dressed as little girls and call it lemonade...you make the world an uglier place.
Jed
Many try to do the no refund even for pre-orders if you use the key. It's simply standered practice. If you don't use the key it's usually a non issue and your account isn't banned. In any case this has never stopped me
If I want a refund, I will get a refund. Whether I have to go through paypal, my bank, or other means.
Also if you haven't received your refund yet you need to contact Paypal and see whats going on because it's on their end now.
Lastly, believe what you will but your last statement comes off as someone simply attempting to try and troll a game he/she doesn't like so it might be wise to avoid statements like that if you want others to believe your post is more than trolling.
OP got banned not for wanting a refund, but for getting one the wrong way.
Noone is going to ban you just for wanting a refund. Disregarding the company's refund policies and forcing a chargeback is a bannable offense however,
Pretty much this why give you access still if you are taking your money back ?
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Not really, because if you return a game to wal-mart, they are taking the game in exchange for money. You can't do this for a program. He would be getting money back, but still have the ability to play the game.
No wal-mart just doesn't take your game and can't after you buy it.
If you people would read the OP is saying he didn't get a refund when asked for it but got banned instead without the product he paid for nor the refund.
I hope you have better luck than I:
Status
After careful consideration, we're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time.
The item is ineligible for PayPal Buyer Protection because it is intangible.
What's interesting is that I initiated the PayPal dispute because AV was not responding to my inquiries. I simply used PayPal as a way to communicate with them that they couldn't just ignore. AV were the ones who escalated it to an actual claim, not me:
Well done Paypal
Thanks for your support, good day !