I started WoW with MoP. I like it. I agree its not dumbed down but is more streamlined. You cant use auto attack and kill all mobs. Thats a generalization. As you level which is presented in a linear fashion but you can run and quest anywhere (within that line) the combat gets more invovled (just never gets overly-challenging). But no MMO does for me (which is part of the attraction). I'm not playing an MMO to be challenged. Im playing to explore, run content, and progress... forever (if it was up to me).
Combat is reduced to proper rotation but so are all MMOs when you look at it. You are managing a limited resource (be it cooldown/time, rage, etc). It becomes a game of who can manage it better. If I want it harder I just dont upgrade my gear.
What keeps me logging in are the plethora of achievements. They are just fun. I also appreciate the LFG (and probably LFR) since it allows me to play through all the content without waiting. I have limited gaming time at night.
I tried Rift with the 20 day free trial and it just didn't work for me. I judge games based on how well I like the theme they are based on and Rift was not engaging for me.
All games evolve and to believe that what you enjoyed about a 'living' game at launch would present the same experience nearly a decade later is naive. But because you disagree with some of the changes doesnt make it a bad game, just a bad choice (for the person who dislikes it).
Good post and some good points, although you started wow with MoP so your points are very interesting because most of us played before then or when the game was released. I guess if I was in your shoes I wouldn't understand all the psycho babble either.
But I think you misinterpided my post as knocking WoW saying it's a bad game. I don't think it's a bad game, as i stated I had always loved WoW since the beginning of time, I just don't like MoP for obvious reasons, and knocking people that like other games is not something I do, because I'm 32 years old and a little bit beyond that, and only child-like Bigots do that. Which I see a lot of on this website from new users or people just looking to argue because they are miserable and feel the need to bash people.
I just think it's dumbed down (From what I'm used to play 4 years ago) and I didn't like it. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are knocking you, or the game you like. When i stated it seemed the game was made for people who "are incapable of wiping their own bums" I meant it seemed as if everything was already done for you and their was no effort needed to do something in the game.
My apologies. I did not mean for my response to come off offensive (or you knocking the game). Im 40 so we are on the same page there. Agreed I cant speak to what it was like at launch, but can say there is complexity (perhaps maybe less of it?). I play EQ so I'm used to hardcore MMOs. I almost quit WoW in the first 15 levels because I thought it was a childrens game. It wasnt until I started to hit mid 30s early 40s that I had to stop and start thinking. I couldnt randomly press skills as I started out to do. That was when the fun started for me and I started seeing all that it has to offer. I was impressed and overwhelmed.
I agree it is dated, it could use a graphical makeover and agree the skills or traits (whatever you get every 15 levels) is basic, especially coming from have 2,000 Alternate Advancement points each uniquely placed. But I also see there are a lot of theorycrafters in WoW devoting web sites to developing the best build (which I dont use). So can see and understand the reduction. Like others mentioned how useful is the skill point system if everyone reads a site that tells them exactly where to put the point. It negates the original idea behind them which is unique builds.
I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.
The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.
IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.
This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.
R.I.P WoW
I was in a large guild when WoW first started. No matter how organised the guild was, 40 man raids was never a pleasant adventure in my opinion.
Though I prefer a lot from vanilla WoW, one thing I totally despised was having to get 40 people together, then get to where we needed to be, then wait for buffs, listen to directions. Wipe, wipe, wipe, etc. loot boss, everyone bitch and moan that they should have gotten loot, even though there raid rules and a point system in the guild. Someone has to go afk, wait, wait, wait, ok rinse repeat.......Hours and hours of torture, I hated the waste of time we went through raiding in 40 man raids just for scraps of loot, months on end to finally get your set. Wow has ruined me for raiding, I will never do it again in a game, never.
i too agree with the OP. I played wow for 6 years and quit towards the end of Cata...came back last week to play with my hardcore WoW playing GF. She is abosolutly branwashed by this game...i tryed intoroducing her to other mmos but she keeps saying there crap and going back to WoW.
Any ways, since i have came back all i have to say is just wow...i can see how this game is appealing to modern day, new players...its so dumb and hello kitty simple...the BIGGESt problem i have with the game is even on NEW servers there are always ppl decked out in herlooms, i coudnt run a single lvl 15 dungeon without having sumone else run ahead of the tank pulling shiit cuz of his epic heirlooms, and dont even get me started on cross realm BS...whast the point on playing on a new server when ppl can simply cross realm...
Annother thing is the economy...MY GOD has it become inflated BAD! liek stupid bad...when i left i was paying 2-5g for 20 linen cloth, now 20-80G for 1 stack...WTF! or 200G for a freaking lvl 20 blue! WTF is going on!!!
i for one am not going to be subbing back when my 2 months end...its just a horrible game now...hell my 5yr old son can probly play this game its been dummed down so much...
Only thing that would.MIGHT, MAYBE! get me back into this game is if they male a 100% NEW server that dosnt allow transfers to it or have cross realm access and isnt linked to other servers from LFG finder...
I donno about you ppl but i like to remember wow when it actualyl took skill and felt like a game..back when it was just Vanilla and BC...the new "features" as they call them have made the game a terrible POS
Sorry the game didn't work out for you OP. I'd suggest you try another game, such as GW2, but GW2 allows you to deposit your crafting mats into your bank without even visiting your bank! TEH HORROR!! I'm sure you would be outraged at this slap in the face attrosity. I don't know what else to suggest. Too many games are made to be fun and not full of timesinks that you seem to enjoy so much. I'm sure there are some out there. Just avoid games that are popular and you will be fine.
I remember back when Wow first came out and they compared it to other games. This was always the complaint that was given, and it was always stated, simple to understand, hard to master.
There is complexity there if you know what your looking for. What they did was get rid of a talent system that just had people going to the internet and looking at a build that every used if you were a fury warrior. Was shadowform really needed on the talent tree for shadow priest? Who didn't take it?
They replaced it with things that are much more a personal choice, and not a required utility.
I am not heralding this game as the second coming, but I always hear this "make it harder, its too easy now" rhetoric, but truth is less is more. Ask any guy standing outside victoria's secret.
Not sure what game you played back then, but Borecraft was never hard to begin with. (Well, I speak for myself at least). Like others have said, gathering people for raids was the toughest thing to do. And knowing where to look for complexity in the easiest MMO of all time is quite humorous. Thanks for the laugh though
I remember back when Wow first came out and they compared it to other games. This was always the complaint that was given, and it was always stated, simple to understand, hard to master.
There is complexity there if you know what your looking for. What they did was get rid of a talent system that just had people going to the internet and looking at a build that every used if you were a fury warrior. Was shadowform really needed on the talent tree for shadow priest? Who didn't take it?
They replaced it with things that are much more a personal choice, and not a required utility.
I am not heralding this game as the second coming, but I always hear this "make it harder, its too easy now" rhetoric, but truth is less is more. Ask any guy standing outside victoria's secret.
Not sure what game you played back then, but Borecraft was never hard to begin with. (Well, I speak for myself at least). Like others have said, gathering people for raids was the toughest thing to do. And knowing where to look for complexity in the easiest MMO of all time is quite humorous. Thanks for the laugh though
I remember back when Wow first came out and they compared it to other games. This was always the complaint that was given, and it was always stated, simple to understand, hard to master.
There is complexity there if you know what your looking for. What they did was get rid of a talent system that just had people going to the internet and looking at a build that every used if you were a fury warrior. Was shadowform really needed on the talent tree for shadow priest? Who didn't take it?
They replaced it with things that are much more a personal choice, and not a required utility.
I am not heralding this game as the second coming, but I always hear this "make it harder, its too easy now" rhetoric, but truth is less is more. Ask any guy standing outside victoria's secret.
Not sure what game you played back then, but Borecraft was never hard to begin with. (Well, I speak for myself at least). Like others have said, gathering people for raids was the toughest thing to do. And knowing where to look for complexity in the easiest MMO of all time is quite humorous. Thanks for the laugh though
As part of my BA I am conducting research on gaming language, especially how it is used in MMORPGs such as WoW. If you like, you could help me with my research by filling out this quick survey:
Originally posted by trash656 Originally posted by darkhalf357x I started WoW with MoP. I like it. I agree its not dumbed down but is more streamlined. You cant use auto attack and kill all mobs. Thats a generalization. As you level which is presented in a linear fashion but you can run and quest anywhere (within that line) the combat gets more invovled (just never gets overly-challenging). But no MMO does for me (which is part of the attraction). I'm not playing an MMO to be challenged. Im playing to explore, run content, and progress... forever (if it was up to me).Combat is reduced to proper rotation but so are all MMOs when you look at it. You are managing a limited resource (be it cooldown/time, rage, etc). It becomes a game of who can manage it better. If I want it harder I just dont upgrade my gear.What keeps me logging in are the plethora of achievements. They are just fun. I also appreciate the LFG (and probably LFR) since it allows me to play through all the content without waiting. I have limited gaming time at night.I tried Rift with the 20 day free trial and it just didn't work for me. I judge games based on how well I like the theme they are based on and Rift was not engaging for me.All games evolve and to believe that what you enjoyed about a 'living' game at launch would present the same experience nearly a decade later is naive. But because you disagree with some of the changes doesnt make it a bad game, just a bad choice (for the person who dislikes it).
Good post and some good points, although you started wow with MoP so your points are very interesting because most of us played before then or when the game was released. I guess if I was in your shoes I wouldn't understand all the psycho babble either.
But I think you misinterpided my post as knocking WoW saying it's a bad game. I don't think it's a bad game, as i stated I had always loved WoW since the beginning of time, I just don't like MoP for obvious reasons, and knocking people that like other games is not something I do, because I'm 32 years old and a little bit beyond that, and only child-like Bigots do that. Which I see a lot of on this website from new users or people just looking to argue because they are miserable and feel the need to bash people.
I just think it's dumbed down (From what I'm used to play 4 years ago) and I didn't like it. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are knocking you, or the game you like. When i stated it seemed the game was made for people who "are incapable of wiping their own bums" I meant it seemed as if everything was already done for you and their was no effort needed to do something in the game.
My apologies. I did not mean for my response to come off offensive (or you knocking the game). Im 40 so we are on the same page there. Agreed I cant speak to what it was like at launch, but can say there is complexity (perhaps maybe less of it?). I play EQ so I'm used to hardcore MMOs. I almost quit WoW in the first 15 levels because I thought it was a childrens game. It wasnt until I started to hit mid 30s early 40s that I had to stop and start thinking. I couldnt randomly press skills as I started out to do. That was when the fun started for me and I started seeing all that it has to offer. I was impressed and overwhelmed.
I agree it is dated, it could use a graphical makeover and agree the skills or traits (whatever you get every 15 levels) is basic, especially coming from have 2,000 Alternate Advancement points each uniquely placed. But I also see there are a lot of theorycrafters in WoW devoting web sites to developing the best build (which I dont use). So can see and understand the reduction. Like others mentioned how useful is the skill point system if everyone reads a site that tells them exactly where to put the point. It negates the original idea behind them which is unique builds.
We'll see how long I make it.
hehe yes great post, and no need to apologize at all my friend I wasn't offended at all. It's easy to take things out of context on the internet because people dont talk face to face to know what each of us means or is talking about. That's why I perfer to speak to people in real life over the internet, thats why you will see I don't post that much here, only occasionally. I know I've taken things out of context on many occasions here.
How far have you gotten through MoP so far? I really like the new landscapes they added they are beautiful. Especially the new raid area's
Sorry the game didn't work out for you OP. I'd suggest you try another game, such as GW2, but GW2 allows you to deposit your crafting mats into your bank without even visiting your bank! TEH HORROR!! I'm sure you would be outraged at this slap in the face attrosity. I don't know what else to suggest. Too many games are made to be fun and not full of timesinks that you seem to enjoy so much. I'm sure there are some out there. Just avoid games that are popular and you will be fine.
haha yes i agree with the bank and crafting mats!! TEH HORRORZ! GW2 is an awesome game though for a free to play game it offers a hell of a lot. And yes I think I'm going tot ake your advice on popular MMORPG's That will be duly noted *nods
I retried WOW as well following the release of MoP, but I couldn't get my character past level 15. Everything that was fun about vanilla had been removed and I was just walked through a chain of tedious story quests. I was aware this had happened, but I had not anticipated the extent to which they had destroyed everything that was good in vanilla.
Originally posted by trash656 I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.R.I.P WoW
I was in a large guild when WoW first started. No matter how organised the guild was, 40 man raids was never a pleasant adventure in my opinion.
Though I prefer a lot from vanilla WoW, one thing I totally despised was having to get 40 people together, then get to where we needed to be, then wait for buffs, listen to directions. Wipe, wipe, wipe, etc. loot boss, everyone bitch and moan that they should have gotten loot, even though there raid rules and a point system in the guild. Someone has to go afk, wait, wait, wait, ok rinse repeat.......Hours and hours of torture, I hated the waste of time we went through raiding in 40 man raids just for scraps of loot, months on end to finally get your set. Wow has ruined me for raiding, I will never do it again in a game, never.
But that was the beauty of it! You see you could also really piss people off in Vanilla WoW. I remember me and my Buddy were Undead rogues My name was "Trash" which was my female Forsaken Rogue, and my Buddy played a Male Forsaken Rogue name Suicide and we used to gank alliance all the time near the molten core entrance. Then there was another time when we had a Shadow Priest with us, he Mind Controlled a paladin off that Chain bridge you had to run down to get to BRD, and made him jump into the Lava 3 times, then we made him mad because he started yelling at us in red text. Then he called his buddys down and we ended up having a scrap with 7 paladins and 9 rogues LOL! Good times!!
I completely stopped playing wow when they added quest tracks. Back then, we used website to complete our quests. For every quest, i tried to complete them without seeking help. If its too hard, i use a website to complete it instead. Now, with the track system, it does not feel like an RPG anymore and thats why i hate wow so much right now.
Originally posted by dcrose001 Awesome, so blizz actually made a game that ppl with little to no skill play EVEN easier. This is good game? Combat in WoW in a nutshell: " Oh i see a mob, click auto attack, get up ,go get a latte, come back, mob is dead" wooot i feel leet. This explains why when wow babies come to AoC we have to spoon feed them , " what i have to actually DO something to kill a mob"
Spoon feed them... as in chopping their heads off the moment they step into white sands then tell them whats is best in life?
I completely stopped playing wow when they added quest tracks. Back then, we used website to complete our quests. For every quest, i tried to complete them without seeking help. If its too hard, i use a website to complete it instead. Now, with the track system, it does not feel like an RPG anymore and thats why i hate wow so much right now.
Sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever?!?
So you are annoyed that they added a system in game to help you along with quests (which can be turned off) but if you ever got stuck you would look at external sources anyway?
Going back to the original point of this thread, why are returning players from many moons ago so surprised that the game has changed so much and it isn't the game they remember? The reason for this is that the game has not evolved with the players that left in mind, it has evolved for the players that stayed and that did tend to be the casual crowd which makes sense as they are the people that stayed, paid and played.
I am a vanilla player and have seen the game change so much over the years but as i have never been into raiding so much since vanilla/BC the changes have not caused me too much pain.
It was what it was and it is what it is now, if it isn't the game for you any more then just remember the old days fondly and move on, for the rest of us there is still an enjoyable game to be played.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Removing class trainers? How does being forced to run back to capital city every lvl make the game better?
What they have been doing is removing elements that make the game feel like a world. I understand trying to make the game more accessable but at some point it stops being an RPG and starts turning into a lobby game.
I remember before BC getting a key for a gate from a quest. It meant that you could travel much faster. There was a feeling of accomplishment by getting that key. Then they just added a flight path over it (yet kept the quest in for some reason).
Dungeon Finder was another step. These things killed world PvP. No one traveled across the land and no one had to meet up anywhere. You used to fly somewhere and then mount up and head out with a group. You could run into things on the way. Unless all you like to do is dungeons / raids they might as well make the game have offline play and I wouldn't doubt if that was next.
I get that travel time sucks and was used as a time sink but they have gone to far the other way. I get from your post that you could care less about that stuff. Some of us did. Even as a casual player now I miss those things. They have made leveling so quick that each world area is more like a drive by.
I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.
The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.
IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.
This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.
R.I.P WoW
We've had this discussion a few times but what the hell...
Clearly you haven't actually spent anytime really playing MOP, how do I know this? Because you rolled out the usual, 'it's a dumbed down version of the talent system, games were better in the good old days', lazy argument that all the internet badasses on here do to show how, 'hip', they are.
What's actually better, dumping five talent points into a hit rating talent that you only notice in gearing terms or actually choosing an ability that affects your playstyle? Are you also suggesting that visiitng a class trainer was a, 'feature'? Honestly it's laughable. Please do list all the other, 'features', that have been cut from the game and if you say, 'attunement quests', then you really are looking out of rose tinted specs.
The problem with the talent system is that many of the choices you make towards the end of the trees are just very clunky and only situation utility wise for many classes or just completely change how you play which is jarring at lv90, (Mages for instance). They made these changes so you'd actually change talents around for certain fights. A good idea but it doesn't quite work yet IMO.
The other big problem is dailies, this made me not bother anymore, (there at lv90 so just take my word on this). Sticking valor rewards behind factions you have to daily grind was just an idiotic decision decided to cockblock anyone who enjoys alts or just likes the raiding/dungeon scene. They'll be more dailies as well in 5.2 and although there won't be gear upgrades from the faction and with the removal of the item upgrader, (new feature) nor any new dungeons,, many are wondering how there suppose to gear up for the new raid.
Oh yes, the LFR, that's the solution. Don't get me started on that.....
Did you like in Vanilla the fact that if you wanted to train Enchanting at high level, you had to go to Uldaman, cause the only master enchanter trainer was there? I didn't. It was a pointless waste of time. Now there are profession trainers everywhere.
Did you like the fact that ALL epic mounts were just recoloring of the normal mounts (beside the Forsaken ones which were kickass?) I didn't. Now epic mounts look epic.
Did you like the fact that a mage played exactly the same, no matter the "spec", to about around level 40-45? I hated it. Now your spec start at level 10 and it makes the game RADICALLY different even inside the same class (ie: warlock demonologist plays completely different from any other warlocks for example).
Did you liked the fact that you needed 40 people for a raid, needed goddamn flasks for all? food? Took hours? then the logistic of it all bein a nightmare so that most people did not bother? (FACT, only 1% of people ever saw Naxxramas, often considered the best Raid of the Vanilla era) I did not. I much like smaller things with less logistic to consider and more fun in my sessions, thank you very much (FACT: much more than 1% of the players have seen Dragon Soul thanks to the LFR, you might not like it but it is making so that Blizzard devs are not working for the top 1% anymore, which is a win in my book). You say you are 32. I'm 35, my time is limited and precious, I do not want to spend hours in minutiae, I do that at work already.
Did you really like going back to town to train? I did not care one way or the other. You still have to go back to town to craft, so there is still a push to congregate in cities.
Did you really like the fact that you HAD to be Resto as a druid (and you were just an innervate on a stick), HAD to be Holy as paladin, Warrior TANKS were the only one really worthy of the name etc etc? I didn't. I loved my druid, nobody wanted him cause he was a bear. Now Class balance is much better with all specs, more or less, useful and played. Class Balance will never be done, btw, but you can be any class, any spec and you will be useful to a raid.
I could go on. What is the purpose of this post? To show that Vanilla is often seen through nostalgia glasses. The flaws are just forgotten. Hey, so you do not like MoP and you prefer Vanilla, ok, it is your right to have an opinion, but when the basis of that opinion is "class trainers", "40 men raids" and "dumbed down talents" then I will react to it.
On the talents, many have already spoken. My 2 cents is that you cannot just look at the talents, you must look at the spec system and the glyphs as well, cause it was divided between those (and yes, I DO agree that 6 choices + glyphs + 1 spec are a bit little, could be more, could be done better, I am not trying to tell you MoP is perfect..).
Many of the obvious choices (someone mentioned shadow form for shadow priests) is now a spec ability that you get at XX level. Glyphs are also used to diverify your character and honestly.... they made away with mixing trees back in Cataclysm (or was it Northrend?) to make things clearer and simpler, yes. So that people would not auto-gimp themselves with not optimal talent choices. Complexity != Depth. Depth is about the meaningful choices you have in the game, Complexity is how hard is the game to play. Poor talent choices is complexity. 34 different classes, all with different play styles, is Depth.
Same thing for end game choices. Used to be Raid or open world PvP. Now it is Raid (3 difficulty levels), PvP, (Pet Battles, they do not really give you gear, they are their own separate thing), Dailies until you die, Challenge Dungeons, Scenarios, Battlegrounds, Arena.. prolly forgot one or two. Nothing stop you from mixing and marching ofc.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Did you like in Vanilla the fact that if you wanted to train Enchanting at high level, you had to go to Uldaman, cause the only master enchanter trainer was there? I didn't. It was a pointless waste of time. Now there are profession trainers everywhere.
Yes I did
Did you like the fact that ALL epic mounts were just recoloring of the normal mounts (beside the Forsaken ones which were kickass?) I didn't. Now epic mounts look epic.
Yes I did, though to be fair i played 700 hours as an undead priest
Did you like the fact that a mage played exactly the same, no matter the "spec", to about around level 40-45? I hated it. Now your spec start at level 10 and it makes the game RADICALLY different even inside the same class (ie: warlock demonologist plays completely different from any other warlocks for example).
Was priest, brother was mage, he disagrees with you saying "that guy was bad"
Did you liked the fact that you needed 40 people for a raid, needed goddamn flasks for all? food? Took hours? then the logistic of it all bein a nightmare so that most people did not bother? (FACT, only 1% of people ever saw Naxxramas, often considered the best Raid of the Vanilla era) I did not. I much like smaller things with less logistic to consider and more fun in my sessions, thank you very much (FACT: much more than 1% of the players have seen Dragon Soul thanks to the LFR, you might not like it but it is making so that Blizzard devs are not working for the top 1% anymore, which is a win in my book). You say you are 32. I'm 35, my time is limited and precious, I do not want to spend hours in minutiae, I do that at work already.
I managed to kill 1 boss in Naxx before we got to close to expac for our guild to care. Then they destroyed 40 man raiding. Our server had 3 guilds just starting Naxx, 1 alliance, and 2 horde.
Did you really like going back to town to train? I did not care one way or the other. You still have to go back to town to craft, so there is still a push to congregate in cities.
Yes I liked having to go to town to do town things.
Did you really like the fact that you HAD to be Resto as a druid (and you were just an innervate on a stick), HAD to be Holy as paladin, Warrior TANKS were the only one really worthy of the name etc etc? I didn't. I loved my druid, nobody wanted him cause he was a bear. Now Class balance is much better with all specs, more or less, useful and played. Class Balance will never be done, btw, but you can be any class, any spec and you will be useful to a raid.
Certain classes were broken at times (poor poor paladins), but in the 40 man system there was always room for some unique flowers. My guild had me tank Ony as a shadow priest just to say we had done it. (Vanilla days) They also had me spec shadow and group with the warlocks for PEW PEW PEW awesomesauce. (i liked being MT healer and was class leader. Each week we switched which priest was shadow)
I could go on. What is the purpose of this post? To show that Vanilla is often seen through nostalgia glasses. The flaws are just forgotten. Hey, so you do not like MoP and you prefer Vanilla, ok, it is your right to have an opinion, but when the basis of that opinion is "class trainers", "40 men raids" and "dumbed down talents" then I will react to it.
Vanilla was better.
On the talents, many have already spoken. My 2 cents is that you cannot just look at the talents, you must look at the spec system and the glyphs as well, cause it was divided between those (and yes, I DO agree that 6 choices + glyphs + 1 spec are a bit little, could be more, could be done better, I am not trying to tell you MoP is perfect..).
Many of the obvious choices (someone mentioned shadow form for shadow priests) is now a spec ability that you get at XX level. Glyphs are also used to diverify your character and honestly.... they made away with mixing trees back in Cataclysm (or was it Northrend?) to make things clearer and simpler, yes. So that people would not auto-gimp themselves with not optimal talent choices. Complexity != Depth. Depth is about the meaningful choices you have in the game, Complexity is how hard is the game to play. Poor talent choices is complexity. 34 different classes, all with different play styles, is Depth.
Same thing for end game choices. Used to be Raid or open world PvP. Now it is Raid (3 difficulty levels), PvP, (Pet Battles, they do not really give you gear, they are their own separate thing), Dailies until you die, Challenge Dungeons, Scenarios, Battlegrounds, Arena.. prolly forgot one or two. Nothing stop you from mixing and marching ofc.
For anyone out there itching to taste MoP.... get the damn free trial and roll a Pandaren whatever. You will see all the stuff you will need to see right in the starter zone. Level it up to 20... will take a day at most. Repeat it once with another Pandaren character. If, after having done this twice, you feel MoP is exciting and new... buy the damn game, but only after doing the Pandaren starter zone atleast twice. This will prepapre you for life at level 90. You can even try out the bet battles. So basically all that is new in MoP is playable in the free starter edition.
Warning: Don't bother trying PVP unless you are a rogue or a hunter... you're stuck in the 20-24 twink bracket. They outlevel you, they outgear you, and most importantly, PVP in the lower levels is woefully unbalanced. LOL, if you think PVP is unbalanced at 90, try it at level 20... as something other than a rogue or a hunter.
The original WoW, and Burning Crusade Raids were much more difficult then they are now.
I had to jump in just to reply to this. First, I don't see how you can claim this after only just returning to the game, especially with the current tier already on farm. Secondly, I can assure you that the heroic content is still very much a challenge on average. Some of the hardest tiers ever have been released after TBC.
I also don't mind the class trainer issue. I justify it by just assuming that since my characters get stronger then they're probably talented enough to come up with the spells on their own through their own testing and research.
Some further points that you've made I can agree with, and some others I also disagree with. Ultimately you seem to want WoW to go in a more sandboxy direction and I can support that idea.
I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.
The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.
IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.
This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.
R.I.P WoW
so, you played wow so you can use ineffective weird talent speccs and run to your class trainer?
seriously, do i need to comment on that???
what they did was:
* advance the talent system to a lvl where you can actually CHOSE between a few skills instead of not being able to chose between many skills because you actually needed to take a specific one to be valuable for your raid.
* remove the "return to xy" requirement on lvl up. it's way faster now, most people dont play for the experience to run to a specific place every hour during lvling
and yes, the pet system is exactly what you think it is, pokemon wow style. but. people like it. you dont. fine
from my point of view this game is STILL fun. raids need to be organized propperly (unless you wanna do the dumbed down version, aka LFR, which is basically preparing you for the main raid, that's all).
uh, and what sony did with SWG was making it a wow clone(from an open skill based game). so realy, how could wow be a wow clone? wow is wow ^^
you dont like it?
that's okai, no reasons are needed for you not to like it i guess. and since you named none that actually make sense we should all be fine here :>
but on the other hand, i am playing in the same guild, on the same server, and the same faction since classic (and actually with the same char till MoP). that seems to be unusual too - seeing all the allies comming to horde, all the players guildhopping every 3rd day and so on.
maybe what wow needs to be fun is a working community, which i have in my guild :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
For anyone out there itching to taste MoP.... get the damn free trial and roll a Pandaren whatever. You will see all the stuff you will need to see right in the starter zone. Level it up to 20... will take a day at most. Repeat it once with another Pandaren character. If, after having done this twice, you feel MoP is exciting and new... buy the damn game, but only after doing the Pandaren starter zone atleast twice. This will prepapre you for life at level 90. You can even try out the bet battles. So basically all that is new in MoP is playable in the free starter edition.
Warning: Don't bother trying PVP unless you are a rogue or a hunter... you're stuck in the 20-24 twink bracket. They outlevel you, they outgear you, and most importantly, PVP in the lower levels is woefully unbalanced. LOL, if you think PVP is unbalanced at 90, try it at level 20... as something other than a rogue or a hunter.
Interesting so doing the Pandaran starting area twice somehow is the same thing as exploring an entirely new continent? All the new content? What about the 2 new BG's? What about the new dungeons and the new raids? What about the hundreds of quests that deliver the story?
What the trial shows you is the panda starting area..the panda race..and perhaps the monk class at low lvls. And it's really not good rep of the class, meeting them at lvl 90 pvp is much better rep. A week after hitting lvl 90 im geared for LFR, I just did Heroics and I started doing dailys as well but only when Im waiting for ques. I don't grind them out like so mad man, i just do em whenever. The people who have issue with dailys are obssessed with WOW and can't fathom taking it easy...they MUST CONSUME ALL CONTENT!!!
Comments
My apologies. I did not mean for my response to come off offensive (or you knocking the game). Im 40 so we are on the same page there. Agreed I cant speak to what it was like at launch, but can say there is complexity (perhaps maybe less of it?). I play EQ so I'm used to hardcore MMOs. I almost quit WoW in the first 15 levels because I thought it was a childrens game. It wasnt until I started to hit mid 30s early 40s that I had to stop and start thinking. I couldnt randomly press skills as I started out to do. That was when the fun started for me and I started seeing all that it has to offer. I was impressed and overwhelmed.
I agree it is dated, it could use a graphical makeover and agree the skills or traits (whatever you get every 15 levels) is basic, especially coming from have 2,000 Alternate Advancement points each uniquely placed. But I also see there are a lot of theorycrafters in WoW devoting web sites to developing the best build (which I dont use). So can see and understand the reduction. Like others mentioned how useful is the skill point system if everyone reads a site that tells them exactly where to put the point. It negates the original idea behind them which is unique builds.
We'll see how long I make it.
I was in a large guild when WoW first started. No matter how organised the guild was, 40 man raids was never a pleasant adventure in my opinion.
Though I prefer a lot from vanilla WoW, one thing I totally despised was having to get 40 people together, then get to where we needed to be, then wait for buffs, listen to directions. Wipe, wipe, wipe, etc. loot boss, everyone bitch and moan that they should have gotten loot, even though there raid rules and a point system in the guild. Someone has to go afk, wait, wait, wait, ok rinse repeat.......Hours and hours of torture, I hated the waste of time we went through raiding in 40 man raids just for scraps of loot, months on end to finally get your set. Wow has ruined me for raiding, I will never do it again in a game, never.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
i too agree with the OP. I played wow for 6 years and quit towards the end of Cata...came back last week to play with my hardcore WoW playing GF. She is abosolutly branwashed by this game...i tryed intoroducing her to other mmos but she keeps saying there crap and going back to WoW.
Any ways, since i have came back all i have to say is just wow...i can see how this game is appealing to modern day, new players...its so dumb and hello kitty simple...the BIGGESt problem i have with the game is even on NEW servers there are always ppl decked out in herlooms, i coudnt run a single lvl 15 dungeon without having sumone else run ahead of the tank pulling shiit cuz of his epic heirlooms, and dont even get me started on cross realm BS...whast the point on playing on a new server when ppl can simply cross realm...
Annother thing is the economy...MY GOD has it become inflated BAD! liek stupid bad...when i left i was paying 2-5g for 20 linen cloth, now 20-80G for 1 stack...WTF! or 200G for a freaking lvl 20 blue! WTF is going on!!!
i for one am not going to be subbing back when my 2 months end...its just a horrible game now...hell my 5yr old son can probly play this game its been dummed down so much...
Only thing that would.MIGHT, MAYBE! get me back into this game is if they male a 100% NEW server that dosnt allow transfers to it or have cross realm access and isnt linked to other servers from LFG finder...
I donno about you ppl but i like to remember wow when it actualyl took skill and felt like a game..back when it was just Vanilla and BC...the new "features" as they call them have made the game a terrible POS
Sorry the game didn't work out for you OP. I'd suggest you try another game, such as GW2, but GW2 allows you to deposit your crafting mats into your bank without even visiting your bank! TEH HORROR!! I'm sure you would be outraged at this slap in the face attrosity. I don't know what else to suggest. Too many games are made to be fun and not full of timesinks that you seem to enjoy so much. I'm sure there are some out there. Just avoid games that are popular and you will be fine.
Not sure what game you played back then, but Borecraft was never hard to begin with. (Well, I speak for myself at least). Like others have said, gathering people for raids was the toughest thing to do. And knowing where to look for complexity in the easiest MMO of all time is quite humorous. Thanks for the laugh though
Whats a hard MMO? And what makes it so?
Apparently talking to class trainers?
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Desdemonic
Good post and some good points, although you started wow with MoP so your points are very interesting because most of us played before then or when the game was released. I guess if I was in your shoes I wouldn't understand all the psycho babble either.
But I think you misinterpided my post as knocking WoW saying it's a bad game. I don't think it's a bad game, as i stated I had always loved WoW since the beginning of time, I just don't like MoP for obvious reasons, and knocking people that like other games is not something I do, because I'm 32 years old and a little bit beyond that, and only child-like Bigots do that. Which I see a lot of on this website from new users or people just looking to argue because they are miserable and feel the need to bash people.
I just think it's dumbed down (From what I'm used to play 4 years ago) and I didn't like it. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they are knocking you, or the game you like. When i stated it seemed the game was made for people who "are incapable of wiping their own bums" I meant it seemed as if everything was already done for you and their was no effort needed to do something in the game.
My apologies. I did not mean for my response to come off offensive (or you knocking the game). Im 40 so we are on the same page there. Agreed I cant speak to what it was like at launch, but can say there is complexity (perhaps maybe less of it?). I play EQ so I'm used to hardcore MMOs. I almost quit WoW in the first 15 levels because I thought it was a childrens game. It wasnt until I started to hit mid 30s early 40s that I had to stop and start thinking. I couldnt randomly press skills as I started out to do. That was when the fun started for me and I started seeing all that it has to offer. I was impressed and overwhelmed.
I agree it is dated, it could use a graphical makeover and agree the skills or traits (whatever you get every 15 levels) is basic, especially coming from have 2,000 Alternate Advancement points each uniquely placed. But I also see there are a lot of theorycrafters in WoW devoting web sites to developing the best build (which I dont use). So can see and understand the reduction. Like others mentioned how useful is the skill point system if everyone reads a site that tells them exactly where to put the point. It negates the original idea behind them which is unique builds.
We'll see how long I make it.
hehe yes great post, and no need to apologize at all my friend I wasn't offended at all. It's easy to take things out of context on the internet because people dont talk face to face to know what each of us means or is talking about. That's why I perfer to speak to people in real life over the internet, thats why you will see I don't post that much here, only occasionally. I know I've taken things out of context on many occasions here.How far have you gotten through MoP so far? I really like the new landscapes they added they are beautiful. Especially the new raid area's
Cheers
ugh didnt know that - agree that's a mistakeEQ2 fan sites
haha yes i agree with the bank and crafting mats!! TEH HORRORZ! GW2 is an awesome game though for a free to play game it offers a hell of a lot. And yes I think I'm going tot ake your advice on popular MMORPG's That will be duly noted *nodscheers,
-trash
Anyway, as the OP said R.I.P WOW.
I was in a large guild when WoW first started. No matter how organised the guild was, 40 man raids was never a pleasant adventure in my opinion.
Though I prefer a lot from vanilla WoW, one thing I totally despised was having to get 40 people together, then get to where we needed to be, then wait for buffs, listen to directions. Wipe, wipe, wipe, etc. loot boss, everyone bitch and moan that they should have gotten loot, even though there raid rules and a point system in the guild. Someone has to go afk, wait, wait, wait, ok rinse repeat.......Hours and hours of torture, I hated the waste of time we went through raiding in 40 man raids just for scraps of loot, months on end to finally get your set. Wow has ruined me for raiding, I will never do it again in a game, never.
But that was the beauty of it! You see you could also really piss people off in Vanilla WoW. I remember me and my Buddy were Undead rogues My name was "Trash" which was my female Forsaken Rogue, and my Buddy played a Male Forsaken Rogue name Suicide and we used to gank alliance all the time near the molten core entrance. Then there was another time when we had a Shadow Priest with us, he Mind Controlled a paladin off that Chain bridge you had to run down to get to BRD, and made him jump into the Lava 3 times, then we made him mad because he started yelling at us in red text. Then he called his buddys down and we ended up having a scrap with 7 paladins and 9 rogues LOL! Good times!!I completely stopped playing wow when they added quest tracks. Back then, we used website to complete our quests. For every quest, i tried to complete them without seeking help. If its too hard, i use a website to complete it instead. Now, with the track system, it does not feel like an RPG anymore and thats why i hate wow so much right now.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Spoon feed them... as in chopping their heads off the moment they step into white sands then tell them whats is best in life?
Sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever?!?
So you are annoyed that they added a system in game to help you along with quests (which can be turned off) but if you ever got stuck you would look at external sources anyway?
Going back to the original point of this thread, why are returning players from many moons ago so surprised that the game has changed so much and it isn't the game they remember? The reason for this is that the game has not evolved with the players that left in mind, it has evolved for the players that stayed and that did tend to be the casual crowd which makes sense as they are the people that stayed, paid and played.
I am a vanilla player and have seen the game change so much over the years but as i have never been into raiding so much since vanilla/BC the changes have not caused me too much pain.
It was what it was and it is what it is now, if it isn't the game for you any more then just remember the old days fondly and move on, for the rest of us there is still an enjoyable game to be played.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
What they have been doing is removing elements that make the game feel like a world. I understand trying to make the game more accessable but at some point it stops being an RPG and starts turning into a lobby game.
I remember before BC getting a key for a gate from a quest. It meant that you could travel much faster. There was a feeling of accomplishment by getting that key. Then they just added a flight path over it (yet kept the quest in for some reason).
Dungeon Finder was another step. These things killed world PvP. No one traveled across the land and no one had to meet up anywhere. You used to fly somewhere and then mount up and head out with a group. You could run into things on the way. Unless all you like to do is dungeons / raids they might as well make the game have offline play and I wouldn't doubt if that was next.
I get that travel time sucks and was used as a time sink but they have gone to far the other way. I get from your post that you could care less about that stuff. Some of us did. Even as a casual player now I miss those things. They have made leveling so quick that each world area is more like a drive by.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
We've had this discussion a few times but what the hell...
Clearly you haven't actually spent anytime really playing MOP, how do I know this? Because you rolled out the usual, 'it's a dumbed down version of the talent system, games were better in the good old days', lazy argument that all the internet badasses on here do to show how, 'hip', they are.
What's actually better, dumping five talent points into a hit rating talent that you only notice in gearing terms or actually choosing an ability that affects your playstyle? Are you also suggesting that visiitng a class trainer was a, 'feature'? Honestly it's laughable. Please do list all the other, 'features', that have been cut from the game and if you say, 'attunement quests', then you really are looking out of rose tinted specs.
The problem with the talent system is that many of the choices you make towards the end of the trees are just very clunky and only situation utility wise for many classes or just completely change how you play which is jarring at lv90, (Mages for instance). They made these changes so you'd actually change talents around for certain fights. A good idea but it doesn't quite work yet IMO.
The other big problem is dailies, this made me not bother anymore, (there at lv90 so just take my word on this). Sticking valor rewards behind factions you have to daily grind was just an idiotic decision decided to cockblock anyone who enjoys alts or just likes the raiding/dungeon scene. They'll be more dailies as well in 5.2 and although there won't be gear upgrades from the faction and with the removal of the item upgrader, (new feature) nor any new dungeons,, many are wondering how there suppose to gear up for the new raid.
Oh yes, the LFR, that's the solution. Don't get me started on that.....
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
So, OP.
Did you like in Vanilla the fact that if you wanted to train Enchanting at high level, you had to go to Uldaman, cause the only master enchanter trainer was there? I didn't. It was a pointless waste of time. Now there are profession trainers everywhere.
Did you like the fact that ALL epic mounts were just recoloring of the normal mounts (beside the Forsaken ones which were kickass?) I didn't. Now epic mounts look epic.
Did you like the fact that a mage played exactly the same, no matter the "spec", to about around level 40-45? I hated it. Now your spec start at level 10 and it makes the game RADICALLY different even inside the same class (ie: warlock demonologist plays completely different from any other warlocks for example).
Did you liked the fact that you needed 40 people for a raid, needed goddamn flasks for all? food? Took hours? then the logistic of it all bein a nightmare so that most people did not bother? (FACT, only 1% of people ever saw Naxxramas, often considered the best Raid of the Vanilla era) I did not. I much like smaller things with less logistic to consider and more fun in my sessions, thank you very much (FACT: much more than 1% of the players have seen Dragon Soul thanks to the LFR, you might not like it but it is making so that Blizzard devs are not working for the top 1% anymore, which is a win in my book). You say you are 32. I'm 35, my time is limited and precious, I do not want to spend hours in minutiae, I do that at work already.
Did you really like going back to town to train? I did not care one way or the other. You still have to go back to town to craft, so there is still a push to congregate in cities.
Did you really like the fact that you HAD to be Resto as a druid (and you were just an innervate on a stick), HAD to be Holy as paladin, Warrior TANKS were the only one really worthy of the name etc etc? I didn't. I loved my druid, nobody wanted him cause he was a bear. Now Class balance is much better with all specs, more or less, useful and played. Class Balance will never be done, btw, but you can be any class, any spec and you will be useful to a raid.
I could go on. What is the purpose of this post? To show that Vanilla is often seen through nostalgia glasses. The flaws are just forgotten. Hey, so you do not like MoP and you prefer Vanilla, ok, it is your right to have an opinion, but when the basis of that opinion is "class trainers", "40 men raids" and "dumbed down talents" then I will react to it.
On the talents, many have already spoken. My 2 cents is that you cannot just look at the talents, you must look at the spec system and the glyphs as well, cause it was divided between those (and yes, I DO agree that 6 choices + glyphs + 1 spec are a bit little, could be more, could be done better, I am not trying to tell you MoP is perfect..).
Many of the obvious choices (someone mentioned shadow form for shadow priests) is now a spec ability that you get at XX level. Glyphs are also used to diverify your character and honestly.... they made away with mixing trees back in Cataclysm (or was it Northrend?) to make things clearer and simpler, yes. So that people would not auto-gimp themselves with not optimal talent choices. Complexity != Depth. Depth is about the meaningful choices you have in the game, Complexity is how hard is the game to play. Poor talent choices is complexity. 34 different classes, all with different play styles, is Depth.
Same thing for end game choices. Used to be Raid or open world PvP. Now it is Raid (3 difficulty levels), PvP, (Pet Battles, they do not really give you gear, they are their own separate thing), Dailies until you die, Challenge Dungeons, Scenarios, Battlegrounds, Arena.. prolly forgot one or two. Nothing stop you from mixing and marching ofc.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Yes I did
Yes I did, though to be fair i played 700 hours as an undead priest
Was priest, brother was mage, he disagrees with you saying "that guy was bad"
I managed to kill 1 boss in Naxx before we got to close to expac for our guild to care. Then they destroyed 40 man raiding. Our server had 3 guilds just starting Naxx, 1 alliance, and 2 horde.
Yes I liked having to go to town to do town things.
Certain classes were broken at times (poor poor paladins), but in the 40 man system there was always room for some unique flowers. My guild had me tank Ony as a shadow priest just to say we had done it. (Vanilla days) They also had me spec shadow and group with the warlocks for PEW PEW PEW awesomesauce. (i liked being MT healer and was class leader. Each week we switched which priest was shadow)
Vanilla was better.
For anyone out there itching to taste MoP.... get the damn free trial and roll a Pandaren whatever. You will see all the stuff you will need to see right in the starter zone. Level it up to 20... will take a day at most. Repeat it once with another Pandaren character. If, after having done this twice, you feel MoP is exciting and new... buy the damn game, but only after doing the Pandaren starter zone atleast twice. This will prepapre you for life at level 90. You can even try out the bet battles. So basically all that is new in MoP is playable in the free starter edition.
Warning: Don't bother trying PVP unless you are a rogue or a hunter... you're stuck in the 20-24 twink bracket. They outlevel you, they outgear you, and most importantly, PVP in the lower levels is woefully unbalanced. LOL, if you think PVP is unbalanced at 90, try it at level 20... as something other than a rogue or a hunter.
I had to jump in just to reply to this. First, I don't see how you can claim this after only just returning to the game, especially with the current tier already on farm. Secondly, I can assure you that the heroic content is still very much a challenge on average. Some of the hardest tiers ever have been released after TBC.
I also don't mind the class trainer issue. I justify it by just assuming that since my characters get stronger then they're probably talented enough to come up with the spells on their own through their own testing and research.
Some further points that you've made I can agree with, and some others I also disagree with. Ultimately you seem to want WoW to go in a more sandboxy direction and I can support that idea.
so, you played wow so you can use ineffective weird talent speccs and run to your class trainer?
seriously, do i need to comment on that???
what they did was:
* advance the talent system to a lvl where you can actually CHOSE between a few skills instead of not being able to chose between many skills because you actually needed to take a specific one to be valuable for your raid.
* remove the "return to xy" requirement on lvl up. it's way faster now, most people dont play for the experience to run to a specific place every hour during lvling
and yes, the pet system is exactly what you think it is, pokemon wow style. but. people like it. you dont. fine
from my point of view this game is STILL fun. raids need to be organized propperly (unless you wanna do the dumbed down version, aka LFR, which is basically preparing you for the main raid, that's all).
uh, and what sony did with SWG was making it a wow clone(from an open skill based game). so realy, how could wow be a wow clone? wow is wow ^^
you dont like it?
that's okai, no reasons are needed for you not to like it i guess. and since you named none that actually make sense we should all be fine here :>
but on the other hand, i am playing in the same guild, on the same server, and the same faction since classic (and actually with the same char till MoP). that seems to be unusual too - seeing all the allies comming to horde, all the players guildhopping every 3rd day and so on.
maybe what wow needs to be fun is a working community, which i have in my guild :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Interesting so doing the Pandaran starting area twice somehow is the same thing as exploring an entirely new continent? All the new content? What about the 2 new BG's? What about the new dungeons and the new raids? What about the hundreds of quests that deliver the story?
What the trial shows you is the panda starting area..the panda race..and perhaps the monk class at low lvls. And it's really not good rep of the class, meeting them at lvl 90 pvp is much better rep. A week after hitting lvl 90 im geared for LFR, I just did Heroics and I started doing dailys as well but only when Im waiting for ques. I don't grind them out like so mad man, i just do em whenever. The people who have issue with dailys are obssessed with WOW and can't fathom taking it easy...they MUST CONSUME ALL CONTENT!!!