Hating the Haters

deakon

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Its the core because its there? What the...how... I meen ... honestly...speechless

Freedom to explore is the core.  Blocking off areas because they want to focus on a racial war is NOT freedom.  Have you even played an Elder Scrolls game?

Its not complete freedom no, its still more freedom than the ip has ever had before tho and its not like you cant see all the land it just gives a reason to roll an alt (much like the faction choices in previouse titles have)

It is in NO WAY more freedom than the IP has ever had before.. again, have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?  In no other TES game have they prevented you from exploring content they've created.  It is crazy to limit players in this unneeded way.

So only being allowed in skyrim or morrowind is more freedom then being able to go to both skyrim and morrowind? Its more freedom because the limits are further away. Theres still limits regardless of wether its because the content isnt there or because they want it to add realm pride for pvp purposes, limits are limits and here limits are further away

tiefighter25

I'm not even sure why everyone is getting so upset. ESO is different then WoW and SWTOR is several ways.

For those of you who want ESO to be more like Skyrim, (or previous titles) guess what? Good news. Regardless of ESO's performance, Bethesda is already planning on releasing another TES SRPG title following another few rounds of Skyrim DLC.

(This differs from WoW and SWTOR, WoW meant no more Warcraft RTS, SWTOR meant no more KOTOR.)

For all of you saying that ESO should have been more sandbox, guess what? If it fails, it is most likely to be the last of the AAA, big budget themeparks.

If it turns out to be good? Guess what? You have a decent game ot play.

If you want to argue about B2P, P2P, FTP, guess what? They haven't even decied what payment model they will implement.

It just seems so dman early to be arguing about something which s still so vague.

If there is at least one thing to take heart from, ESO appears to be building their own engine, and doesn't have a drop dead deadline of Christmas like SWTOR.

azzamasin

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Its the core because its there? What the...how... I meen ... honestly...speechless

Freedom to explore is the core.  Blocking off areas because they want to focus on a racial war is NOT freedom.  Have you even played an Elder Scrolls game?

Its not complete freedom no, its still more freedom than the ip has ever had before tho and its not like you cant see all the land it just gives a reason to roll an alt (much like the faction choices in previouse titles have)

It is in NO WAY more freedom than the IP has ever had before.. again, have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?  In no other TES game have they prevented you from exploring content they've created.  It is crazy to limit players in this unneeded way.

If you had any ounce of optimism about a game you could think of the reverse, no other TES game allowed you to explore multiple areas.  You were relegated to only Skyrim while playing Skyrim etc etc etc.  In ESO you get to explore 3 to 4 areas (depending on faction) which is a 300& increase in explorable content over the single player RPG.  I dont know its so hard to think of it like that.

jtcgs

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by azzamasin

And Warcraft started off as a Real-Time-Strategy game and transitioned into an MMO.  One that is arguably the most successful ever. 

 

So what if ESO is transitioning from a single player open world RPG to a Open World MMO with 3 player factional warfare that fits within the lore of the setting.  I can buy ESO's transition far more easily then I could of Warcrafts.

 And KOTOR was a successful SRPG IP made into MMO SWOTR which failed bigtime because? Oh yeah. Taking one example, which is not the same, to try to make your argument work can easiliy be turned against you with actual examples that FIT.

Much like the LAUGHABLE comment highlighted above.

OPEN WORLD MEANS THE WORLD IS OPEN, no loading zones. It is NOT OPEN WORLD. They can call it whatever they want, it doesnt change the definition at all...just like their calling instances, campaigns...doesnt mean it is NOT instanced.

First off no game does seemless world any more, almost all triple-A MMO use some sort of zoning.

 Outside of the obvious which is underlined above I really love how most of these so called "triple-A" MMOs cant last a year or two without having to go F2P to survive.

You cant even seem to go without defeating your own refutes even when using crazy standards that dont even apply...and you did all that while still arguing against your own original comment that TESO was open world! Dont argue with your own points man!

PyrateLV

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Saphen

Have you never played redguard or battlespire then?

They're still tes games. They are off shoots into different genres, e.g. redguard is a tomb raider style game.

Thats what TESO is an off shoot into another genre. Otherwise they would have called it TES6.

Interesting that you used Redguard as an example since it is widely held by the Elder Scrolls community as the absolute WORST ES game ever made. Followed closely by.....yes Battlespire. Another offshoot of the series.

 

So much for the success of offshoots huh?

 

desiriel

Originally posted by tiefighter25

---

For all of you saying that ESO should have been more sandbox, guess what? If it fails, it is most likely to be the last of the AAA, big budget themeparks.

---

Too bad for Zenimax/Bethesda that invested so much money and time in the secret development of a game along the lines of a classic themepark with minor variations and the 3-factions mantra in an instanced huge BG. That was the Fashion of the Time back then but it's too late to reverse the engines now, I presume. And I suppose that, seeing the massive skepticism and anti-hyping surrounding every aspect of their game, someone out there is realizing that they made a huge 'oops'. Their interviews show a distinct damage control mode on.

Then again, they already had the model already at hand with years of experience and lore at their disposal for the final win and they threw everything down the tube. With the maker of Tide of Atlantis at the helm.

apocoluster

 Don't hate haters.  Give them cookies , maybe you can bring them to the dark side

moguy2

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by moguy2

Originally posted by Istavaan
The hate train has well and truly moved from gw2 to TESO, you guys are getting way too predictable. Some people like being miserable, i hope the mods crack down on it because it's making this place a depressing place to visit.

This place has always been a miserable depressing place to visit. You have seasoned posters who say the same thing over and over , just changing a couple words,  to up their count. I mean seriously I have never NOT bought a game cause of this website or its posters. I would rather lead my life than have it lead by people who make a habit of living on these forums.

And seriously OP if you are posting this you too are a follower of others and not a leader of yourself. Go figure.

 

What made me chuckle about your post are the words under your avatar... 'I just wish I had something positive to say'...

Pot calling kettle maybe?

The most depressing posts on these forums, in my opinion, are those continously criticising the community here. You say this is a miserable place to visit? I ask you what are *you* doing to make it better? How does having 'nothing positive to say' create a better environment? At least the guys that complain about the games are here talking about *games* and not other posters.

Like I say, you are not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic. No one is better or made superior (except in their own head) by talking as if it the other guys fault all the time. Folks need to look at their own content and tone and their contribution to the forums before attacking others IMO.

As in most things in life I feel you will find here what *you* want to find here. Depressing people will find it depressing, fun people will find it fun, debaters will find a debate. You will get offended if you want to be offended.

Improve things by being a objectively critical constructive poster with a sense of humour and a resiliant skin, not whinging about others. Lead by example. That's my advice anyhow.

I agree fully. But you got me wrong. I didn't whine at all. Actually I put it out there the way it is. Whining is in a category all of it's own. And for it to be pot / kettle I would need to be posting something negative. Once again, I just put it out there like it is. This site is one of 3 sites I come to when I am bored of whatever I am doing atm. It is the same old same old and you being a seasoned poster know exactly what I am talking about.

 

Any how, thanks for the input.

Nitth

---

Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by sapphen Originally posted by deakon Originally posted by sapphen Originally posted by deakon Its the core because its there? What the...how... I meen ... honestly...speechless

Freedom to explore is the core.  Blocking off areas because they want to focus on a racial war is NOT freedom.  Have you even played an Elder Scrolls game?

---

Its not complete freedom no, its still more freedom than the ip has ever had before tho and its not like you cant see all the land it just gives a reason to roll an alt (much like the faction choices in previouse titles have)

---

It is in NO WAY more freedom than the IP has ever had before.. again, have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?  In no other TES game have they prevented you from exploring content they've created.  It is crazy to limit players in this unneeded way.

---

If you had any ounce of optimism about a game you could think of the reverse, no other TES game allowed you to explore multiple areas.  You were relegated to only Skyrim while playing Skyrim etc etc etc.  In ESO you get to explore 3 to 4 areas (depending on faction) which is a 300& increase in explorable content over the single player RPG.  I dont know its so hard to think of it like that.

---

So your saying that if you divided skyrim (The game) up into 3 regions which required a new a game then you would get 3x to content?

sapphen

Originally posted by desiriel

Too bad for Zenimax/Bethesda that invested so much money and time in the secret development of a game along the lines of a classic themepark with minor variations and the 3-factions mantra in an instanced huge BG. That was the Fashion of the Time back then but it's too late to reverse the engines now, I presume. And I suppose that, seeing the massive skepticism and anti-hyping surrounding every aspect of their game, someone out there is realizing that they made a huge 'oops'. Their interviews show a distinct damage control mode on.

Then again, they already had the model already at hand with years of experience and lore at their disposal for the final win and they threw everything down the tube. With the maker of Tide of Atlantis at the helm.

I agree with you, I thought the same thing.  When they started development some of these ideas might've seemed good at the time.  Nonetheless it's their fault for leading the game down this dark path with no insight to the future.  They should've known better and tried to repersent the Elder Scrolls franchise rather than shoving it in a generic MMO box.

They'll play damage control, push it out the door to make as much money as possible - then they'll move on.  It's a shame because it's the fans who will suffer.  TES is a great series and didn't need other games to make it a MMO.

evilastro

Yeah the Themepark Hate Club are getting pretty annoying as of late.

If you don't like themeparks, don't come and have a whinge about a themepark being a themepark. Noone cares.

It's not constructive criticism and theres no need for debate, its just personal preference.

As for the single player ES games being more sandboxey, sure, maybe they are, but they aren't making this game at the expense of new single player ES games. Its a different development team using the same IP and world. If that bothers you, dont play, and just wait for the next single player ES game.

ShakyMo

Those opposed to 3 factions, how would YOU do pvp in TESO then?

None at all? It wouldn't sell. Name one successful pure pve mmo.

Instanced pointless minigames? That would put the game in wow clone territory.

Ffa pvp anywhere? Would sell less there are only 3 successful Ffa games eve, lineage2 and uo. Some Ffa servers would probably be a good idea though.

azzamasin

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Its the core because its there? What the...how... I meen ... honestly...speechless

Freedom to explore is the core.  Blocking off areas because they want to focus on a racial war is NOT freedom.  Have you even played an Elder Scrolls game?

Its not complete freedom no, its still more freedom than the ip has ever had before tho and its not like you cant see all the land it just gives a reason to roll an alt (much like the faction choices in previouse titles have)

It is in NO WAY more freedom than the IP has ever had before.. again, have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?  In no other TES game have they prevented you from exploring content they've created.  It is crazy to limit players in this unneeded way.

Way to word your argument to fit your narrow viewpoint.  The 3 main TES games only featured 1 area to explore and ESO is featuring 3 to 4 areas to explore.  Again you're wrong and narrowly defining your view is nothing but a strawman argument.

azzamasin

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Jts
Glad you used kotor / swtor example.

Many of the problems with swtor are that it is too much like a sprpg. It's not mmo enough, that's what's wrong with swtor.

You make a mmo exactly like a corresponding sprpg you make a game that's both a bad mmo and a bad rpg.

Let's take another example uo, its nothing Like the single player ultima games, and most people would agree it was a good mmo.

Glad you bring this up.

 

Make an MMO based entirely on the single player game is surefire way to enhance the chances the MMO fails.  SWTOR is a perfect example, its basically KOTOR with some MMO elements and it failed hardcore.

 

Not to mention that running complaint is that most modern MMO's are to easy or to focused on single player acheievements and the crowd here wants to make a direct port of the single player elder scrolls game?  *boggles my mind*

azzamasin

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Those opposed to 3 factions, how would YOU do pvp in TESO then?

None at all? It wouldn't sell. Name one successful pure pve mmo.

Instanced pointless minigames? That would put the game in wow clone territory.

Ffa pvp anywhere? Would sell less there are only 3 successful Ffa games eve, lineage2 and uo. Some Ffa servers would probably be a good idea though.

EXACTLY!

TheHavok

You 'themepark' haters are hilarious.  Crying over something that hasn't even been released yet.  I think the best part is how you assume YOUR anger (Blind anger I should add) is shared by all other Elder Scroll fans - which it isn't.

I'm very excited about this game.  Zenimax has proven time and time again that they can put out a quality product.

You guys crying so much about 'this is a sandbox' or 'this is a themepark' have kind of lost sight of what it is to play and enjoy games.  JUST PLAY THE GAME AND THEN DECIDE IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.  Are you so ruined that you can no longer play a game if it has a set path for you to follow?  Heaven forbid the developers take the time to set up a route for people!

You pretentious asshats put so many damn labels and restrictions on everything.  THIS DOESN'T HAVE FEATURE X THEREFORE IT IS SUCKS QQ.  And you know what - if ESO does launch and you think it sucks, then so be it.  The developers, the guys who create and imagine this stuff, who OWN this stuff, did it THEIR way.  They don't have to listen to some disgruntled MMO player who blogs about video games sucking and how the golden age has passed.

Honestly, I think a lot of people that hate on every mmo now and cry about 'themeparks' ruining everything are probably just not satisfied with a game being just a game.  They feel like they need have a deeper connection with it, they want to leave their mark, to be known and to know.  They want a second life that they can be immersed in.  Its probably some kind of underlying mental condition.

Most of us who are perfectly fine playing a game and keeping it just a game are happy for ESO coming out.

sapphen

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Those opposed to 3 factions, how would YOU do pvp in TESO then?

None at all? It wouldn't sell. Name one successful pure pve mmo.

Instanced pointless minigames? That would put the game in wow clone territory.

Ffa pvp anywhere? Would sell less there are only 3 successful Ffa games eve, lineage2 and uo. Some Ffa servers would probably be a good idea though.

Glad you asked.  I seen this suggested in another thread and I thought it was a great start.  Basically they would need to change the setting to account for it:

I have revised some of the lore on their website to help fix these problems that they are having;

It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom. In the midst of this chaos, three armies; the Daggerfall Covenant, the Aldmeri Dominion and the Ebonheart Pact will take up arms against the Empire, and against each other, to wrest control of the Imperial City and White-Gold Tower from the dark forces of Oblivion itself.

** The setting I am imagined is unorderly. There is strife within and between all the races of Tamriel. The nations are beginnig to come together but many are still resisting complete conformity. Three leaders rise in hopes to unite their people and rally others to their cause.


Daggerfall Covenant

High King Emeric is a Brenton merchant lord whose shrewd policies and masterful diplomacy earned him the trust of most of the Kings of High Rock. He has a vast fortune and purchased a large army of Redguard soldiers. The Orcs pose some threat but they are unorganized. This leaves them vulnerable, many are captured as slaves and forced to serve in the war for their freedom.

* Brentons, Redguards and Orcs receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in currency gain and reduction in vendor prices.


Ebonheart Pact

Jorun, of Eastern Skyrim, is acting High King of the Great Moot, but he does not rule absolutely. Many disagree with his Dark Elf councilor and challenge his right to the throne. Argonians still defend their borders against intruders and each other but some have aligned themselves with the High King in hopes to gain his favor.

* Nords, Dunmers and Argonians receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in health.


Aldmeri Dominion

Queen Ayrenn is intelligent and honorable, with a genuine humility rarely seen among her people but she is also a decisive leader with a stubborn streak. She spent much of the first part of her life roaming the lands and seas of Tamriel, seeking adventure. She has befriended many Bosmer and Khajiit in her travels, even against the wishes of her people.

* Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in xp and pvp points gain.


With these revisions they could alter what they already have to account for no faction locks. The bonus would help encourage people to join the planned factions but would also allow people to choose which faction they would like to join.

EDIT IN: I feel that race/area faction locks should be removed. We can travel to all PvE areas freely without fear of being attacked. Player can choose to manually flag themselves for faction PvP or FFA PvP.

With this change there would be no reason for race/area faction locks.  Then players can freely travel anywhere they want.  I say in order to keep PvP out of PvE, players would have to manually flag themselves for PvP.  There would be two different choices to flag for 'open world faction PvP' or 'open world free for all PvP'.

Players would have to choose a faction to earn the full amount of rewards from PvP.  They can go in as mercenaries, joining other groups but without declairing a faction they wouldn't reap the full rewards.  They would also only be able to flag themselves for 'open world free for all PvP'.

 

sapphen

Most of you fanatics can fantasize all you want but I have never said anything about sandbox versus themepark - rarely have I seen it mentioned here.  What I find so funny is how you can come up with paragraphs of retorts to the wind.

sapphen

Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Its the core because its there? What the...how... I meen ... honestly...speechless

Freedom to explore is the core.  Blocking off areas because they want to focus on a racial war is NOT freedom.  Have you even played an Elder Scrolls game?

Its not complete freedom no, its still more freedom than the ip has ever had before tho and its not like you cant see all the land it just gives a reason to roll an alt (much like the faction choices in previouse titles have)

It is in NO WAY more freedom than the IP has ever had before.. again, have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?  In no other TES game have they prevented you from exploring content they've created.  It is crazy to limit players in this unneeded way.

Way to word your argument to fit your narrow viewpoint.  The 3 main TES games only featured 1 area to explore and ESO is featuring 3 to 4 areas to explore.  Again you're wrong and narrowly defining your view is nothing but a strawman argument.

I have no idea what to tell you.  If you're asking me to be happy because other Elder Scrolls games only took place in one area then I'd have to say you're crazy.  There are plenty of others who feel the same way.  It reminds me of a story my sociology professor told in class one day (slightly altered to fit the subject at hand).

A minority walked into a donut shop and asks the owner for a boston creme donut.  The owner says "I'm sorry sir but I can not sell you that donut because of your race".  The guy was shocked, "That's absurd!".  The owner told him "Many years ago you wasn't even allowed in my donut shop, you should be thankful that I will sell you a regular donut!".

Outraged and sadden by the bigotry the man steps outside and calls his lawyer.  After telling the story the lawyer replied "But have you tried putting on a disguise and painting your face.  If you do this then you'll be able to buy any donut you want".

Should the minority be grateful that the owner would sell him a regular donut?  Should he be satisfied with changing his outward appearance in order to get the donut he wants?

Distopia

I don't agree with Sapphen but if he/she wants to limit his/her gaming options based on whatever criteria, that's his/her choice not sure what objective a person could have in mind by arguing with it.

ShakyMo

Lol that's one desparate straw man you put up there.

Really equating faction locked areas in a game with racism in real life. Really?

Ambros123

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by deakon

Its the core because its there? What the...how... I meen ... honestly...speechless

Freedom to explore is the core.  Blocking off areas because they want to focus on a racial war is NOT freedom.  Have you even played an Elder Scrolls game?

Its not complete freedom no, its still more freedom than the ip has ever had before tho and its not like you cant see all the land it just gives a reason to roll an alt (much like the faction choices in previouse titles have)

It is in NO WAY more freedom than the IP has ever had before.. again, have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?  In no other TES game have they prevented you from exploring content they've created.  It is crazy to limit players in this unneeded way.

All the TES games you were boxed in like it or not.  In Skyrim you cannot travel to Morrowind and vice versa.  In Oblivion you could not travel to either of those places.  There is a lot more freedom than in TESO games.

As for faction locks, well it's a time of trouble and the races are banding together.  If there is a threat to your race you are not going to oppose your own race or say "Fuuuuu** YOU!!".  It's like the North vs South in the Civil War, you did not have New Yorkers traveling south to join the Confed.  Factions are set up just like any modern MMO.

Ambros123

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Those opposed to 3 factions, how would YOU do pvp in TESO then?

None at all? It wouldn't sell. Name one successful pure pve mmo.

Instanced pointless minigames? That would put the game in wow clone territory.

Ffa pvp anywhere? Would sell less there are only 3 successful Ffa games eve, lineage2 and uo. Some Ffa servers would probably be a good idea though.

Glad you asked.  I seen this suggested in another thread and I thought it was a great start.  Basically they would need to change the setting to account for it:

I have revised some of the lore on their website to help fix these problems that they are having;

It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom. In the midst of this chaos, three armies; the Daggerfall Covenant, the Aldmeri Dominion and the Ebonheart Pact will take up arms against the Empire, and against each other, to wrest control of the Imperial City and White-Gold Tower from the dark forces of Oblivion itself.

** The setting I am imagined is unorderly. There is strife within and between all the races of Tamriel. The nations are beginnig to come together but many are still resisting complete conformity. Three leaders rise in hopes to unite their people and rally others to their cause.


Daggerfall Covenant

High King Emeric is a Brenton merchant lord whose shrewd policies and masterful diplomacy earned him the trust of most of the Kings of High Rock. He has a vast fortune and purchased a large army of Redguard soldiers. The Orcs pose some threat but they are unorganized. This leaves them vulnerable, many are captured as slaves and forced to serve in the war for their freedom.

* Brentons, Redguards and Orcs receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in currency gain and reduction in vendor prices.


Ebonheart Pact

Jorun, of Eastern Skyrim, is acting High King of the Great Moot, but he does not rule absolutely. Many disagree with his Dark Elf councilor and challenge his right to the throne. Argonians still defend their borders against intruders and each other but some have aligned themselves with the High King in hopes to gain his favor.

* Nords, Dunmers and Argonians receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in health.


Aldmeri Dominion

Queen Ayrenn is intelligent and honorable, with a genuine humility rarely seen among her people but she is also a decisive leader with a stubborn streak. She spent much of the first part of her life roaming the lands and seas of Tamriel, seeking adventure. She has befriended many Bosmer and Khajiit in her travels, even against the wishes of her people.

* Altmer, Bosmer and Khajiit receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in xp and pvp points gain.


With these revisions they could alter what they already have to account for no faction locks. The bonus would help encourage people to join the planned factions but would also allow people to choose which faction they would like to join.

EDIT IN: I feel that race/area faction locks should be removed. We can travel to all PvE areas freely without fear of being attacked. Player can choose to manually flag themselves for faction PvP or FFA PvP.

With this change there would be no reason for race/area faction locks.  Then players can freely travel anywhere they want.  I say in order to keep PvP out of PvE, players would have to manually flag themselves for PvP.  There would be two different choices to flag for 'open world faction PvP' or 'open world free for all PvP'.

Players would have to choose a faction to earn the full amount of rewards from PvP.  They can go in as mercenaries, joining other groups but without declairing a faction they wouldn't reap the full rewards.  They would also only be able to flag themselves for 'open world free for all PvP'.

 

That... is an utterly faulty reasoning.  All this will cause is one overly dominate faction and all others so minor that it would render factions insignificant.

And...."Brentons, Redguards and Orcs receive a bonus for joining this faction - suggested 5% increase in currency gain and reduction in vendor prices" talk about a completely pointless and useless faction bonus compared to a 5% health.  Ohhh I wonder oh wonder what faction bonus will be be the least favorable.

Ambros123

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by desiriel

Too bad for Zenimax/Bethesda that invested so much money and time in the secret development of a game along the lines of a classic themepark with minor variations and the 3-factions mantra in an instanced huge BG. That was the Fashion of the Time back then but it's too late to reverse the engines now, I presume. And I suppose that, seeing the massive skepticism and anti-hyping surrounding every aspect of their game, someone out there is realizing that they made a huge 'oops'. Their interviews show a distinct damage control mode on.

Then again, they already had the model already at hand with years of experience and lore at their disposal for the final win and they threw everything down the tube. With the maker of Tide of Atlantis at the helm.

I agree with you, I thought the same thing.  When they started development some of these ideas might've seemed good at the time.  Nonetheless it's their fault for leading the game down this dark path with no insight to the future.  They should've known better and tried to repersent the Elder Scrolls franchise rather than shoving it in a generic MMO box.

They'll play damage control, push it out the door to make as much money as possible - then they'll move on.  It's a shame because it's the fans who will suffer.  TES is a great series and didn't need other games to make it a MMO.

I'm actually seeing a lot of things that deviates from the "generic MMO box" like public dungeons, combat combos, any weapon any armor, PvP potentially  being what GW2 should have been, actual exploration.  All of these aren't "generic" in MMOs.

And really how arrogant for fans to think that they have the right to say what the game should be directed towards.  This is made by Zenimax NOT Bethesda.  This isn't TES series but an MMO version.  This is done by a seperate company which is taking nothing away from the series.  There will be more TES games but Bethesada has other projects to work on, like they just finished Dishonored.  Likely they'll go back to the Fallout series then back to an TES title.  Fans need to quite going ape shit because their panties are in a bundle. 

Latronus

Wow.  I can see both sides of this argument and both are technically correct.

Now before heads start to explode let me explain.  Those that say the game as it stands is limiting exploration are technically correct.  Why?  Because you have always been able to explore every inch of the map for that game.  Those that say we we've never been able to cross realms are also correct.  I can't go into Oblivion from Skyrim.

Now what I would like to see is a throwback to EQ where I could go into the opposing factions areas but I was KOS or Kill On Site for the NPC guards.  Why couldn't that be implemented here?  Make level 10 then be able to go where I want, but if I go into an opposing factions area, I'm now KOS to all the guards and such.  Then, to make matters interesting, throw in a mechanic from SWTOR where as I enter this opposing area a big red warning comes on my screen alerting me that I will be flagged for PVP in 10 seconds.  If i stay I'm now PVP flagged and if I dont want that i can turn around and leave.  Now we can go wherever we want but there are ramifications for our decisions.

As far as splitting the races goes, I'm still on the fence.  I understand why they are doing it but just not sure I like the grouping or the idea yet.