I found both systems having their own problems and i can't really say that this one is much better than that one. With GW2 open tagging i found people socialise even less than in WoW or any other game. Standing next to me and attacking the same mob isn't something social at all. And i really heard a lot of times in chat that GW2 looks like the most anti-social MMO ever. Why you need to be in a party, to talk to others when everything you need is a zerg since you don't need healers, tanks and even party itself. Just jump on bandwagon and have a ride. But on other hand that eliminates mob stealing problem and spot camping.
I totally agree with you there. It is a double edged sword. On the one side you don't need to group anymore, so you aren't really meeting new people cause they run by, do their thing and are gone again. Where in WoW i met many of my friends trough asking for help and having a little chat long after Hogger was dead.
On the otherside, the thing i hated a lot in WoW, especially on crowded hours was the mob stealing. Some area's where imposible to do even with a group at peak hours (especially the first weeks after a expansion). Not enough mobs and to many people camping the area. Now i quit shortly after Cata and read something about them having changd it with certain mobs so that is a good thing i guess, can't really judge since i don't play it.
Open tagging is a curse and blessing the same time. It removes many irritations, but also some good things. Should WoW have open tagging? No...WoW needs other things more then open tagging but that isn't the subject. People who say Blizzard should have done so...why? WoW is WoW. Why would they have to reprogram a big part of the game so that GW2 and Rift players will get their open tagging in WoW..but then never play WoW. I play SWToR, i would love to see voiced NPC's giving quests. Should Blizzard implant that now in WoW? No offcourse not. Project Titan? Yeah that one needs to have things other mmo's are doing well already.
Not sure why people dislike open tapping. At best it means you can help someone in a tough spot without compromising their loot, and you get rewarded as well. At worst someone gets credit for helping you kill something you could already kill. For the record I probably got more invites in GW2 from people I helped, to go do map clears or big DEs, than I ever had while soloing up to max level in WoW. In WoW you just grab the mobs before other people do, there is no incentive to do solo quests with a group, or even to help out a struggling player. How can anyone think that is more social? There is more to socializing than chatting, it also pertains to companionship and communal activities, both of which GW2 promotes.
Also to all these people complaining about no chat, did you ever try to start one? Chances are that the problem is with yourself.
how does open tagging promote actually working together with people around you? open tagging by definition means you don't need to be in a group with someone to get credit for your quests/experience or what have you. You both get credit for the kill regardless if you choose to work together or if you just happened to both be attacking the same mob due to low respawn times.
GW2 since its such a popular example, i've had no more people ask me to group up or just flat out invite me to a group in GW2 or even just start talking even if we happened to be killing the same stuff than i did in WoW. Some of you guys are over exaggerrating just a bit to much.
It does not promote people to work with you; that is not the point of open tagging. The point of open tagging is to not create a competitive environment for tagging mobs. This leads to nothing but frustration. Both games have issues with people not grouping up with you to kill stuff, but it is worse in WoW because of there not being open tagging.
[Open Tagging]
Person A is fighting a mob
Person B rolls up and helps kill the mob and gets credit as well as Person A
Person A and B communicate or they don't.
[No Open Tagging]
Person A is fighting a mob
Person B ignores person A and runs off.
Person A and B communicate or they don't
Person A is dying to a mob
Person B ignores person A and waits until the mob is back to full, then kills the mob.
Person A is running towards a mob to tag it
Person B swipes in and gets the tag
Commence the debauchery
I think the choice is pretty obvious for which is better for the average player. In both situations the same problem exists. The same guy who ignores you and helps you fight in GW2 is the same guy who ignores you and doesn't help you fight in WoW. I mean really, what is so bad about that? In GW2 you have to do enough damage to a creature to get the loot, so thats not an issue there. Yeah the tag and scoot thing is bad, but thats just because the design is poor in other games that introduced open tagging. They will get better. Blizzard likes to go back on what they say alot though, so I would not be too suprised if they did change it eventually.
You could argue that this creates more of a purpose for groups (something GW2 most certainly lacks in the open world) but the reality is that is grouping to protect you from getting your tag stolen really a great way to group? I have been in plenty of "tagging" groups in WoW that did not say a world and after the quest just disbanded. If you group up in GW2 you are obviously looking for the social element so it creates a much better grouping environment.
Tagging system in GW2 simplifies the game too much. Bascially you don't even need to put effort in killing, just follow someone and tag his mobs.
It's even worse in Rift because the XP/loot is divided by those tagging. So if you get trolled by few players you are basically getting zero rewards for your efforts.
Tagging system in GW2 simplifies the game too much. Bascially you don't even need to put effort in killing, just follow someone and tag his mobs.
It's even worse in Rift because the XP/loot is divided by those tagging. So if you get trolled by few players you are basically getting zero rewards for your efforts.
The loot is only given to the player that first tagged the mob. Where as quest credit can be given to both. The only exceptions to this are rifts, where anyone in the rift area has a chance to have a mob drop rift loot(planarite, etc) . Not sure how many XP is split, if at all. I know in LOTRO, as soon as someone did even 1 damage to a mob you tagged, your XP automatically was dropped by a set percent, and kept decreasing based on how many other players hit it.
I have never done damage to mobs already tagged in the open world and got any sort of drop. The most I get is to skin them if the other guy does not.
I don't realy get the point of the discussion. It looks like a bad system design to me.
In the ideal game, mobs only drop loot that is tagged to the player doing the most damage. Anybody else can take the loot (steal) but then they are open to attack from the owner and get a penalty of some kind (EVE online can stealing mechanic). Any kind of exp should only come from things that the player earning the exp can do by himself (turning in a quest after accepting it, goup accept/completion should exist).
Alternatively, skill advance is based either on time or practical skill use, this eliminates any significance of tagging except loot.
I can't help it but Ultima Online had the most effective and fair skilling system available. Similar to time based skilling (EVE, Perpetuum, AoW etc).
These mechanics eliminate interference from other players thus promote cooperation for other motives (obtaining items, influence etc.).
Comments
I totally agree with you there. It is a double edged sword. On the one side you don't need to group anymore, so you aren't really meeting new people cause they run by, do their thing and are gone again. Where in WoW i met many of my friends trough asking for help and having a little chat long after Hogger was dead.
On the otherside, the thing i hated a lot in WoW, especially on crowded hours was the mob stealing. Some area's where imposible to do even with a group at peak hours (especially the first weeks after a expansion). Not enough mobs and to many people camping the area. Now i quit shortly after Cata and read something about them having changd it with certain mobs so that is a good thing i guess, can't really judge since i don't play it.
Open tagging is a curse and blessing the same time. It removes many irritations, but also some good things. Should WoW have open tagging? No...WoW needs other things more then open tagging but that isn't the subject. People who say Blizzard should have done so...why? WoW is WoW. Why would they have to reprogram a big part of the game so that GW2 and Rift players will get their open tagging in WoW..but then never play WoW. I play SWToR, i would love to see voiced NPC's giving quests. Should Blizzard implant that now in WoW? No offcourse not. Project Titan? Yeah that one needs to have things other mmo's are doing well already.
Also to all these people complaining about no chat, did you ever try to start one? Chances are that the problem is with yourself.
It does not promote people to work with you; that is not the point of open tagging. The point of open tagging is to not create a competitive environment for tagging mobs. This leads to nothing but frustration. Both games have issues with people not grouping up with you to kill stuff, but it is worse in WoW because of there not being open tagging.
[Open Tagging]
Person A is fighting a mob
Person B rolls up and helps kill the mob and gets credit as well as Person A
Person A and B communicate or they don't.
[No Open Tagging]
Person A is fighting a mob
Person B ignores person A and runs off.
Person A and B communicate or they don't
Person A is dying to a mob
Person B ignores person A and waits until the mob is back to full, then kills the mob.
Person A is running towards a mob to tag it
Person B swipes in and gets the tag
Commence the debauchery
I think the choice is pretty obvious for which is better for the average player. In both situations the same problem exists. The same guy who ignores you and helps you fight in GW2 is the same guy who ignores you and doesn't help you fight in WoW. I mean really, what is so bad about that? In GW2 you have to do enough damage to a creature to get the loot, so thats not an issue there. Yeah the tag and scoot thing is bad, but thats just because the design is poor in other games that introduced open tagging. They will get better. Blizzard likes to go back on what they say alot though, so I would not be too suprised if they did change it eventually.
You could argue that this creates more of a purpose for groups (something GW2 most certainly lacks in the open world) but the reality is that is grouping to protect you from getting your tag stolen really a great way to group? I have been in plenty of "tagging" groups in WoW that did not say a world and after the quest just disbanded. If you group up in GW2 you are obviously looking for the social element so it creates a much better grouping environment.
Tagging system in GW2 simplifies the game too much. Bascially you don't even need to put effort in killing, just follow someone and tag his mobs.
It's even worse in Rift because the XP/loot is divided by those tagging. So if you get trolled by few players you are basically getting zero rewards for your efforts.
The loot is only given to the player that first tagged the mob. Where as quest credit can be given to both. The only exceptions to this are rifts, where anyone in the rift area has a chance to have a mob drop rift loot(planarite, etc) . Not sure how many XP is split, if at all. I know in LOTRO, as soon as someone did even 1 damage to a mob you tagged, your XP automatically was dropped by a set percent, and kept decreasing based on how many other players hit it.
I have never done damage to mobs already tagged in the open world and got any sort of drop. The most I get is to skin them if the other guy does not.
I don't realy get the point of the discussion. It looks like a bad system design to me.
In the ideal game, mobs only drop loot that is tagged to the player doing the most damage. Anybody else can take the loot (steal) but then they are open to attack from the owner and get a penalty of some kind (EVE online can stealing mechanic). Any kind of exp should only come from things that the player earning the exp can do by himself (turning in a quest after accepting it, goup accept/completion should exist).
Alternatively, skill advance is based either on time or practical skill use, this eliminates any significance of tagging except loot.
I can't help it but Ultima Online had the most effective and fair skilling system available. Similar to time based skilling (EVE, Perpetuum, AoW etc).
These mechanics eliminate interference from other players thus promote cooperation for other motives (obtaining items, influence etc.).