While I understand that being limited in terms of exploration to the zones of the chosen realm, I think that such a limitation is the right design decision. The player is forced to decide on which side to play meaning that it generates what is called realm pride. It is a very strong mechanic in order to create a lasting identification to the realm (alliance) you chose to fight for and supports the creation of an avid community.
Being forced to make a decision always makes oneself feel uncomfortable, but to me this is of major importance. because. Community and the interaction between players actually is what makes you feel comfortable and "at home" in a MMORPG. It uses the bond between players of a realm and strong feelings aligned to that bond to fight for your and your realms interests.
Everyone that is complaining never played DAoC. Otherwise they would not be complaining. Faction Locks work not because they are trying to "stop you from seeing the world"... they are trying to get PVP correctly done. That hasn't been accomplished in any game since DAoC.
ESO will be a PVP game with PVE.
Or you can make people create their own factions and fight with each other ... like say EVE Online ??? PvP there works great without faction lock.
Originally posted by Alucardlb Yea more or less has killed it for me, i Play in a large guild so trying to get 30ish people to agree on what races to play is never going to happen
Same here.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Originally posted by Iceman8235 I don't mind not having the entire map to roam for pve, if anything I'd rather have it that way. DAoC was the best gaming experience I've ever had and part of the draw was seeing enemies as real invaders from unknown lands. A lot of the mystery would be lost if enemies could freely mingle outside of the open world pvp areas.
Different strokes for different folks. I too enjoyed DAOC, and the blue servers were fun as my introduction to DAOC, but the limitation of not being able to freely visit all parts of the realm was a big reason for me to re-roll and spend far more time on Mordred, the FFA PVP server.
In fact, DAOC had two alterate rules servers, one for those who favored PVP and a cooperative server with no PVP at all where again, players would visit all areas of the realm and cooperate between the factions.
Some folks want to be able to visit the entire world on a single character. Unfortunately for them doesn't look like ESO will be that game but hey, you never know.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While I understand that being limited in terms of exploration to the zones of the chosen realm, I think that such a limitation is the right design decision. The player is forced to decide on which side to play meaning that it generates what is called realm pride. It is a very strong mechanic in order to create a lasting identification to the realm (alliance) you chose to fight for and supports the creation of an avid community.
Being forced to make a decision always makes oneself feel uncomfortable, but to me this is of major importance. because. Community and the interaction between players actually is what makes you feel comfortable and "at home" in a MMORPG. It uses the bond between players of a realm and strong feelings aligned to that bond to fight for your and your realms interests.
Realm pride...
What if you have no interest in the PvP side of the game and just want to play a TES game with friends? If you have no interest in the conflict then this design choice is BAD. Seeing as how TES series are 100% PvE games choosing to make the onlive version Dictate to these PvE fans that they have to engage in the PvP design, no choice, no escape...and to top if off lock 2/3rds of the world off unless you make an alt....
Completely the opposite for me. 3 factions is the way to go for PvP-centric MMOs. Nothing more boring than fighting enemies that look and play exactly the same as you. Also not being able to visit the enemies' area adds to the mystique / rivalry.
Locking factions have its advantages and disadvantages.
I dont see it as one of the turnoffs from the game though, there are far more annoying steps away from the elder scroll games like their use of classes in a game that should really be classless.
Hopefully will the game be a more modern version of DaoC and I might play it but as I see it is the misstake they made to make it an elder scroll MMO. Zenimax should either have bought the rights for DaoC or made a new IP instead. An elder scroll MMO should be more like Daggerfall with better graphics, combat mechanics and AI.
Free for all PvP demands its own game and having it with ESOs mechanics would not work that well. Look on AoC, if ESO had FFA PvP the result would be very similar.
Not being able to physically walk into the other teritories is just stupid, period. Especially in the context of the game´s world (it being one, big continent). And i can guaranty you, that however they will actually implement this ingame, (be it terrain design, impassable mountains, gates, walls, etc) it will feel stupid, unrealistic and artificial.
Further does it, imo, NOT foster realm pride, nor does it have any other game play benefit.
Apparently, character leveling to max level happens in the "home zones". This is where most of the PvE aspects of the game seem to take place. So far we do not know, if there will be enough PvE content for max level players to keep PvE oriented players satisfied. And to be honest, I doubt it. Within 12 years of playing MMOs I have not seen even one theme park MMO that managed to satisfy content-rushing players.
I've got the feeling you await the developers to create your perfect version of a TES MMORPG. This will most likely not happen. The TESO concept clearly is about 3 factions. As far as we know, it will be some sort of a theme park and the fight between the 3 factions seems to be what to expect as endgame content. Keeping these facts in mind, to force players to make a decision on what realm to play supports the concept and the generation of realm pride and identity.
Nah. I mean, it will maybe a letdown in several aspects. But it will certainly be fun for a time. I hardly lose interest in a MMO, teh. I mean SWTOR, DCU, other MMOs I critizised and still had also fun elements for a time. No need to be radical love/hate person.
Partially it's also just us. We aren't as inexperienced and see all as wonder as we used to. But you can't rewind the clock.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Great posting, Ellikal! Especially experienced MMO players are very hard to be satisfied. We have seen tons of MMO concepts and many of us know how a MMO works in general. The magic has gone and it is hard for us to recreate the enthusiasm we once had as "Noobs"
this will be the whole ES world up to now we have gotten one pice in each game the space covered will be the size of both north and south america it is in short the biggest world of any game ever almost dbl the size of WoW each faction will have a space larger than skyrim plus Cyrodill witch anyone can go to it's not a problem not by far
I don't understand the fuss really. DAoC was designed like this. Each Realm had its own isolated PvE area and then there were shared PvP areas (which did feature PvE dungeons and what not).
Once again, the "gaming community" is all up in arms about something. I can understand concern but this has been done before (in WAR as well to some degree and even WoW) it worked out fine.
Every one breath.... put your big/girl pants back on and understand that all will be okay
Originally posted by cura Nope. Lack of open world pvp, housing and sand box features did.
Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release. Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.
As to answer the OP's question.........HELL YES. I get the following:
Spiritual Successor to DAoC. The best PvP game of all time
Open world exploration across vast swathes of Tamriel
open ended class bas system that lets me wear any armor and wiled any weapon I want plus I get to customize my skills and pick and choose which skills suit me more.
A return to non-Instanced dungeons
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Locking factions have its advantages and disadvantages.
I dont see it as one of the turnoffs from the game though, there are far more annoying steps away from the elder scroll games like their use of classes in a game that should really be classless.
Hopefully will the game be a more modern version of DaoC and I might play it but as I see it is the misstake they made to make it an elder scroll MMO. Zenimax should either have bought the rights for DaoC or made a new IP instead. An elder scroll MMO should be more like Daggerfall with better graphics, combat mechanics and AI.
Free for all PvP demands its own game and having it with ESOs mechanics would not work that well. Look on AoC, if ESO had FFA PvP the result would be very similar.
Locking the factions has all the advantages and no disadvantages from a gaming point of view. They deviated from Elder Scrolls only when it didnt make sense in an online persistent world like an MMO. As for classes, they are basically allowing all the customization and open-endedness of the RPG's while keeping some sembalnce of a class based system to attract a different type of audience. Again all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.
The game is the spiritual successor to DAoC in all ways right down to the realm pride that faction locked PvE areas provide. IMO what better way to attract 2 different types of players (and to potentially have greater profits) then to appeal to TES players and MMO players. Again Zenimax gets the best of both worlds.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
People need to realize this game is going to be more of a DAoC 2 then Elder Scrolls. To me this is very good because DAoC was awesome and I can't wait for ESO to release.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Originally posted by cura Nope. Lack of open world pvp, housing and sand box features did.
Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release. Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.
As to answer the OP's question.........HELL YES. I get the following:
Spiritual Successor to DAoC. The best PvP game of all time
Open world exploration across vast swathes of Tamriel
open ended class bas system that lets me wear any armor and wiled any weapon I want plus I get to customize my skills and pick and choose which skills suit me more.
A return to non-Instanced dungeons
Cyrodill is closed area, there are no details on how they want to implement housing and themeparks are for low intelligence masses. See what i did here?
Cyodill is a zone jsut as much as Skyrim is a zone. Hence it is an open area. You're thinking of seemless versus zoning and it has no bearing on whether or not its open or instanced.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Locked factions, locked classes, locked progression, phasing. Yeah the usual stuff that made me tired of theme park games pretty much made me lose interest. I know there's a hype machine out there trying to paint a different picture for this game, but they're the same ones who try to say RIFT is different or Secret World is different. They're a lil' different, but not different enough.
And I mean the locked factions excites the DAoC crowd? DAoC is still around. Mechanics from 2001 excites people? No innovation, just straight up cloning is what people want?
It's not what they want. Zeni's going to have to launch B2P and swell on about box sales, because if they go hunting for subs they won't be there after 6 months.
Originally posted by cura Nope. Lack of open world pvp, housing and sand box features did.
Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release. Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.
As to answer the OP's question.........HELL YES. I get the following:
Spiritual Successor to DAoC. The best PvP game of all time
Open world exploration across vast swathes of Tamriel
open ended class bas system that lets me wear any armor and wiled any weapon I want plus I get to customize my skills and pick and choose which skills suit me more.
A return to non-Instanced dungeons
YOu dont help your cause when you say "Sandboxes suck ass" Makes you look like a wow kiddie.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
this will be the whole ES world up to now we have gotten one pice in each game the space covered will be the size of both north and south america it is in short the biggest world of any game ever almost dbl the size of WoW each faction will have a space larger than skyrim plus Cyrodill witch anyone can go to it's not a problem not by far
I've got the feeling you await the developers to create your perfect version of a TES MMORPG. This will most likely not happen. The TESO concept clearly is about 3 factions. As far as we know, it will be some sort of a theme park and the fight between the 3 factions seems to be what to expect as endgame content. Keeping these facts in mind, to force players to make a decision on what realm to play supports the concept and the generation of realm pride and identity.
I am happy with a lot of what I hear except this faction lock as it is, as the OP suggested, totally removed any excitement in hte game. I am still interested and hope that their design concept, through play testing and listenning to genuine concerns, is adjusted.
There is no need to faction lock races to maintain a 3 faction PvP game. This isn't a single nation invading or defending their homeland. This is a fight for the crown. Sure the heads of each faction have many allies but is it really believeable or even neccessary to lock every single player and NPC into these factions?
You see the reason I think they are locking races to factions has a great deal to do with the fear that, due to the IP being used, a large prtion of the population would not have joined a PvP faction if given the choice. They have to show faction numbers are high because without that then the focus of the game, Cryodil, would really be a failure.
But even if that were not the case and lots of people with the freedom of choice did join a faction how would taht change the game?
What is the differnence between faction locking race and each character choosing their faction?
Faction locking races make the PvP better.
Not having faction locked races would promote diversity in each faction, allow friends to play together, add an element of suprise to PvP fights as you wouldn't know just by looking which faction they belong to, it would alow people to roam around the entire world, it would allow for any quest in any region to be done by any character, it would allow dungeons in each region to be done by any character not just characters from that particular faction....the list goes on.
Originally posted by Grunch People need to realize this game is going to be more of a DAoC 2 then Elder Scrolls. To me this is very good because DAoC was awesome and I can't wait for ESO to release.
Exactly.
Hate on, haters. There will always be Archeage for you. But dont worry, i for one wont miss you in TESO
Originally posted by cura Nope. Lack of open world pvp, housing and sand box features did.
Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release. Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.
As to answer the OP's question.........HELL YES. I get the following:
Spiritual Successor to DAoC. The best PvP game of all time
Open world exploration across vast swathes of Tamriel
open ended class bas system that lets me wear any armor and wiled any weapon I want plus I get to customize my skills and pick and choose which skills suit me more.
A return to non-Instanced dungeons
YOu dont help your cause when you say "Sandboxes suck ass" Makes you look like a wow kiddie.
So the umpteen million threads on these forums dissing & bad mouthing themeparks are ok but one person who hates sandboxs say soemthing and you call them out on it. Novel approach.......and its the reason I included it in my post, showing the hypocrocy of people is a a goal of mine every day.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Comments
While I understand that being limited in terms of exploration to the zones of the chosen realm, I think that such a limitation is the right design decision. The player is forced to decide on which side to play meaning that it generates what is called realm pride. It is a very strong mechanic in order to create a lasting identification to the realm (alliance) you chose to fight for and supports the creation of an avid community.
Being forced to make a decision always makes oneself feel uncomfortable, but to me this is of major importance. because. Community and the interaction between players actually is what makes you feel comfortable and "at home" in a MMORPG. It uses the bond between players of a realm and strong feelings aligned to that bond to fight for your and your realms interests.
Or you can make people create their own factions and fight with each other ... like say EVE Online ??? PvP there works great without faction lock.
Same here.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Different strokes for different folks. I too enjoyed DAOC, and the blue servers were fun as my introduction to DAOC, but the limitation of not being able to freely visit all parts of the realm was a big reason for me to re-roll and spend far more time on Mordred, the FFA PVP server.
In fact, DAOC had two alterate rules servers, one for those who favored PVP and a cooperative server with no PVP at all where again, players would visit all areas of the realm and cooperate between the factions.
Some folks want to be able to visit the entire world on a single character. Unfortunately for them doesn't look like ESO will be that game but hey, you never know.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Realm pride...
What if you have no interest in the PvP side of the game and just want to play a TES game with friends? If you have no interest in the conflict then this design choice is BAD. Seeing as how TES series are 100% PvE games choosing to make the onlive version Dictate to these PvE fans that they have to engage in the PvP design, no choice, no escape...and to top if off lock 2/3rds of the world off unless you make an alt....
Seriously?
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
Locking factions have its advantages and disadvantages.
I dont see it as one of the turnoffs from the game though, there are far more annoying steps away from the elder scroll games like their use of classes in a game that should really be classless.
Hopefully will the game be a more modern version of DaoC and I might play it but as I see it is the misstake they made to make it an elder scroll MMO. Zenimax should either have bought the rights for DaoC or made a new IP instead. An elder scroll MMO should be more like Daggerfall with better graphics, combat mechanics and AI.
Free for all PvP demands its own game and having it with ESOs mechanics would not work that well. Look on AoC, if ESO had FFA PvP the result would be very similar.
Not being able to physically walk into the other teritories is just stupid, period. Especially in the context of the game´s world (it being one, big continent). And i can guaranty you, that however they will actually implement this ingame, (be it terrain design, impassable mountains, gates, walls, etc) it will feel stupid, unrealistic and artificial.
Further does it, imo, NOT foster realm pride, nor does it have any other game play benefit.
@Maelwydd:
Apparently, character leveling to max level happens in the "home zones". This is where most of the PvE aspects of the game seem to take place. So far we do not know, if there will be enough PvE content for max level players to keep PvE oriented players satisfied. And to be honest, I doubt it. Within 12 years of playing MMOs I have not seen even one theme park MMO that managed to satisfy content-rushing players.
I've got the feeling you await the developers to create your perfect version of a TES MMORPG. This will most likely not happen. The TESO concept clearly is about 3 factions. As far as we know, it will be some sort of a theme park and the fight between the 3 factions seems to be what to expect as endgame content. Keeping these facts in mind, to force players to make a decision on what realm to play supports the concept and the generation of realm pride and identity.
Nah. I mean, it will maybe a letdown in several aspects. But it will certainly be fun for a time. I hardly lose interest in a MMO, teh. I mean SWTOR, DCU, other MMOs I critizised and still had also fun elements for a time. No need to be radical love/hate person.
Partially it's also just us. We aren't as inexperienced and see all as wonder as we used to. But you can't rewind the clock.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I don't understand the fuss really. DAoC was designed like this. Each Realm had its own isolated PvE area and then there were shared PvP areas (which did feature PvE dungeons and what not).
Once again, the "gaming community" is all up in arms about something. I can understand concern but this has been done before (in WAR as well to some degree and even WoW) it worked out fine.
Every one breath.... put your big/girl pants back on and understand that all will be okay
Cyrodill is open and housing is first priority on the list after release. Sandboxes suck ass and are a niche sub-genre.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Locking the factions has all the advantages and no disadvantages from a gaming point of view. They deviated from Elder Scrolls only when it didnt make sense in an online persistent world like an MMO. As for classes, they are basically allowing all the customization and open-endedness of the RPG's while keeping some sembalnce of a class based system to attract a different type of audience. Again all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.
The game is the spiritual successor to DAoC in all ways right down to the realm pride that faction locked PvE areas provide. IMO what better way to attract 2 different types of players (and to potentially have greater profits) then to appeal to TES players and MMO players. Again Zenimax gets the best of both worlds.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Cyodill is a zone jsut as much as Skyrim is a zone. Hence it is an open area. You're thinking of seemless versus zoning and it has no bearing on whether or not its open or instanced.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Locked factions, locked classes, locked progression, phasing. Yeah the usual stuff that made me tired of theme park games pretty much made me lose interest. I know there's a hype machine out there trying to paint a different picture for this game, but they're the same ones who try to say RIFT is different or Secret World is different. They're a lil' different, but not different enough.
And I mean the locked factions excites the DAoC crowd? DAoC is still around. Mechanics from 2001 excites people? No innovation, just straight up cloning is what people want?
It's not what they want. Zeni's going to have to launch B2P and swell on about box sales, because if they go hunting for subs they won't be there after 6 months.
a yo ho ho
YOu dont help your cause when you say "Sandboxes suck ass" Makes you look like a wow kiddie.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
this will be the whole ES world up to now we have gotten one pice in each game the space covered will be the size of both north and south america it is in short the biggest world of any game ever almost dbl the size of WoW each faction will have a space larger than skyrim plus Cyrodill witch anyone can go to it's not a problem not by far
Still interested but it sure is a big minus!
And too many minus..........
I am happy with a lot of what I hear except this faction lock as it is, as the OP suggested, totally removed any excitement in hte game. I am still interested and hope that their design concept, through play testing and listenning to genuine concerns, is adjusted.
There is no need to faction lock races to maintain a 3 faction PvP game. This isn't a single nation invading or defending their homeland. This is a fight for the crown. Sure the heads of each faction have many allies but is it really believeable or even neccessary to lock every single player and NPC into these factions?
You see the reason I think they are locking races to factions has a great deal to do with the fear that, due to the IP being used, a large prtion of the population would not have joined a PvP faction if given the choice. They have to show faction numbers are high because without that then the focus of the game, Cryodil, would really be a failure.
But even if that were not the case and lots of people with the freedom of choice did join a faction how would taht change the game?
What is the differnence between faction locking race and each character choosing their faction?
Faction locking races make the PvP better.
Not having faction locked races would promote diversity in each faction, allow friends to play together, add an element of suprise to PvP fights as you wouldn't know just by looking which faction they belong to, it would alow people to roam around the entire world, it would allow for any quest in any region to be done by any character, it would allow dungeons in each region to be done by any character not just characters from that particular faction....the list goes on.
And either way you still have 3 faction PvP....
Exactly.
Hate on, haters. There will always be Archeage for you. But dont worry, i for one wont miss you in TESO
So the umpteen million threads on these forums dissing & bad mouthing themeparks are ok but one person who hates sandboxs say soemthing and you call them out on it. Novel approach.......and its the reason I included it in my post, showing the hypocrocy of people is a a goal of mine every day.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!