A good AI challenges you. It makes you think. This was the role of the GM in P&P games. Holy trinity just makes you go on autopilot. I'm at a point where I am willing to try anything other than that horrible, horrible system.
I think it''s less about a trinity of roles (keep in mind that I'm for a "soft" trinity or just about anything where one can have a focus on some sort of role) and what you said in that it's more about AI and how these encounters play out. You can have definite roles and still have complex fights but as you put it, the AI needs to be adaptive, intelligent, and more than rinse and repeat encounters.
Part of this is that mmo devs have completely gone down the simplification rabbit hole. I agree that just having a Tank shouting and keeping aggro and then the Damage dealers burning down the enemy (and for "some" reason they don't mind this) and then a healer to fill up a Tank is horrible. And it does contribute to Auto Pilot. But that has nothing to do with the stalwart warrior protectingg those who are not tough but who wield arcane powers or who skirt the fight waitting for moments of opportunity.
I play a tank in Tera, a game that does have roles, and it was quite refreshing for the 30 foot tall Baddie go for the healer, I couldn't get aggro so I charged across the room, putting myself between it and the healer, shield slammed it and then turned to throw out a chain and lpull a mob to me that was charging for another player in the group. It wasn't about being the tank and soaking damage as opposed to being an active participant in the fight. Which is mor e to my taste.
Part of this is also a group of players who are more interested in "leveling fast" and getting good loot. Therefore the entire experience has come down to a simplified skinner box.
take quest, run to glowy area on map, kill 10 things, run back to other glowy area on map, turn in quest, get reward, rinse and repeat.
As opposed to allowing players to explore, search, scout, find their objectives, fight if need be and during that fight they excercise their specializations that, because they work together, they are greater than their own individual contributions.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I also enjoy my lancer in TERA for the same reasons. Vanguard also brought. A lot of new things to combat with rescues for tanks. Counter spells for casts. The reactive abilities re nice.
how sophisicated do you think AI in an mmo is going to get? are mobs going to completely ignore heavily armored characters and concentrate solely on unarmored casters? are they going to retreat while relentlessly firing projectiles until everyone is dead?
pen and paper games aren't restricted by video game dynamics so you can't really compare them in that regard.
I like gw2 system, however for most it a zerg. Because 2 reasons,
First with their system it is possible to work together, hell you can do really awesome things if done right. With 2 Mesmers you can keep all buff perma up, if done right. However, because their no YOU MUST DO THIS,,,, people get confuse and so it turn into a zerg. Since it take's a lot more communication to do team work in gw2. Which only people who have teamspeak and know each other well can do it right.
Second they made dgns and such way to freaking easy, and so it not needed and when something not needed people dont use it. Dgn are to the point that a fullly dps team, with no support are tanking abilities can beat them.
Hell I can solo multy dgns and I know a dps warrior that can solo dgns.
So this is a major problems, now the higher lvl fract can make it where a team gotta use some teamwork to beat it. However, those are the only things. This needs to be fix, make it where dgns are extrmely hard. At first people will cry and some will elave the game. However, team work among the players will start to apper.
I like gw2 system, however for most it a zerg. Because 2 reasons,
First with their system it is possible to work together, hell you can do really awesome things if done right. With 2 Mesmers you can keep all buff perma up, if done right. However, because their no YOU MUST DO THIS,,,, people get confuse and so it turn into a zerg. Since it take's a lot more communication to do team work in gw2. Which only people who have teamspeak and know each other well can do it right.
Second they made dgns and such way to freaking easy, and so it not needed and when something not needed people dont use it. Dgn are to the point that a fullly dps team, with no support are tanking abilities can beat them.
Hell I can solo multy dgns and I know a dps warrior that can solo dgns.
So this is a major problems, now the higher lvl fract can make it where a team gotta use some teamwork to beat it. However, those are the only things. This needs to be fix, make it where dgns are extrmely hard. At first people will cry and some will elave the game. However, team work among the players will start to apper.
i agree with your first point and two mesmers working together is really amazing.. took down a champion with just one other mesmer.. took us about 30 min but we did it without a single down was epic stuff:)
for dungeons i find it funny how polar opposite people are on dungeon diffculty.. one half says they are brain dead easy the other half quit because they are too hard.. dungeons being too hard especially now you can't rez zerg the encounters is one of the most common complaints i see... yes you can beat them with 5 warriors but those 5 warriors would have to all really know their class which is how the dungeons were intended to be in the first place.. any combo of classes should be able to complete a dungeon as long as the group is skilled enough.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Lik the 2 Mesmer any class combination can go brilliantly if played right. Last week I grouped up with a hunter in Orr and done some wandering about when we found a maze. After battling through the maze we found a champion with some adds. As an ele I went kite and cc while the hunter blasted him- was a great fight . Re dungeons it's not the class that matters its the build of the classes, e.g condition removal and boon play.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Bringing the Trio back / making those builds necessary would serve to make people experiment with builds that work well together. On the other hand it will bring us back to predjudices like "Necros and eles can't tank" or "Guardian and ele you heal" and parties will be far more picky.
It's nice but I think it would just serve them better to introduce boss mechanics beyond "have more hitpoints" and "spawn more dudes". Fights aren't hard enough in GW2, they are just long.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
So as the title asks. We have seen a game launch now that tried to break the mold and offer us a game that didn't rely on the holy trinity. Some like it some don't.. So how does everyone here feel that has tried a non holy trinity game? Do yu think games are better with the trinity or witha massive hybrid system like GW2 offered or something close to it..Vote and discuss below.
For me it all depends on the game. However; I also feel like we should have a choice and not just be subjected to one option. I like the hybrid some days and some days I want the trinity... That's just me though
I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.
I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.
The old trinity of tank, healer and dps is gone, it was boring and it's outdated.
There are still class roles however, both in MMORPGSs like GW2 and in MOBA: things like support, damage, CC, etc
These new roles show that gameplay has become more complex and more skill-based.
Let's face it, tank aggro mechanics, healing being just pressing frames and making the green bar go up, damage being just a matter of playing simon-says with a few buttons (or more usually a naga macro) - all this stuff is old, and it's crap gameplay.
Games like WoW are dinosaurs now, played by kids and the immature adults who can't move on.
The real games that gamers play are things like LoL, DOTA, GW2, etc - games that have done away with outdated RPG mechanics and are more skill-based, more flexible and ultimately much deeper. And without 36 hotkeys either.
I like gw2 system, however for most it a zerg. Because 2 reasons,
First with their system it is possible to work together, hell you can do really awesome things if done right. With 2 Mesmers you can keep all buff perma up, if done right. However, because their no YOU MUST DO THIS,,,, people get confuse and so it turn into a zerg. Since it take's a lot more communication to do team work in gw2. Which only people who have teamspeak and know each other well can do it right.
Second they made dgns and such way to freaking easy, and so it not needed and when something not needed people dont use it. Dgn are to the point that a fullly dps team, with no support are tanking abilities can beat them.
Hell I can solo multy dgns and I know a dps warrior that can solo dgns.
So this is a major problems, now the higher lvl fract can make it where a team gotta use some teamwork to beat it. However, those are the only things. This needs to be fix, make it where dgns are extrmely hard. At first people will cry and some will elave the game. However, team work among the players will start to apper.
i have to agree with this guy !
getting out of the gameplay the holy trinity its like moving the limits from the sky to the stars ..! just the trinity it was good back 10 years but now i cant accept a designer who sticks on that formula ...
about GW2 they have done nice work and i appreciate their expirement, of course it has its flaws and some dungeons are really scrapped but theior core mechanic its awesome, and here you just mentioned 2 mesmers cooperate, have you get an engineer who plays with bombs which heals ??? or i play in Aurora Glade, and sometimes i WvW with a guild called Furious cookies and we have gone many times 15-20 guys against double enemies ... and i am not any pro player
with the trinity system the whole game would be boring, i cant play games based on the trinity system and on the forced roles ..
The real games that gamers play are things like LoL, DOTA, GW2, etc - games that have done away with outdated RPG mechanics and are more skill-based, more flexible and ultimately much deeper. And without 36 hotkeys either.
Don't forget D3. D3 has very much varying mechanics. Wizard that freeze-stun mobs. Witch doctors that summon zombie dogs and constantly blowing them up (no i am not kidding .. this is the zero dog build .. you just keep summoning and destorying them). Barb that wizz around in a whirlwind.
What I don't like about the trinity is that you get stuck in your role. The GW2 system seemed to try and free people from playing a certain part only, and that is something that seems to go against the collective MMORPG DNA these days.
I hate playing a one trick pony though, it makes the battles too predictable. The chaos of GW2 is certainly hard to get used to, but at least they tried something different.
Strickly talking aboue PvE, my problem with GW2 is it's not balance.
And since there is no "holy trinity" everyone should be the same efficient wise. Everyclass should "be able" to tank the same, dps the same, defense the same, support the same. Else there will always be class that are favored for certain dungeon.
I think everyone know by now, dps warrior is by far the best class to have in speed farm. And guardian is by far the best class for harder dungeon because of their defensive ability.
Even though other class may potentially having high dps or very surival, they just don't have warrior's ability to buff their teamates, and guardians' ability to help their teamates defensively at the same time.
The trinity system is better than what GW2 has. Actually, having played MMORPG's since 2002, I have no idea why people call it the trinity system, since there's actually several roles. Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Magic DPS, Buffer, Healer, Controller. Those roles were typically filled in every group in MMO's pre-WoW. When WoW came out, it combined many of those roles to narrow down the amount of people needed and for 1v1 balance sake.
That's my roundabout way of saying that GW2 didn't eliminate the need for the "trinity." The game still requires players to fill certain roles in each group. People act like what they're doing wasn't being done with the trinity. People are more self aware of controlling and supporting now, but you always had those jobs in other MMORPG's, it's just games like WoW made it pointless to try since you could just aoe dps everything down in mere seconds.
Would rather see a hybrid system over the over played and abused trinity. I played a healer for over 6 years in WoW and found myself doing PvP healing mostly in the end because the other was toooo boring and predictable.
The trinity system is better than what GW2 has. Actually, having played MMORPG's since 2002, I have no idea why people call it the trinity system, since there's actually several roles. Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Magic DPS, Buffer, Healer, Controller. Those roles were typically filled in every group in MMO's pre-WoW. When WoW came out, it combined many of those roles to narrow down the amount of people needed and for 1v1 balance sake.
That's my roundabout way of saying that GW2 didn't eliminate the need for the "trinity." The game still requires players to fill certain roles in each group. People act like what they're doing wasn't being done with the trinity. People are more self aware of controlling and supporting now, but you always had those jobs in other MMORPG's, it's just games like WoW made it pointless to try since you could just aoe dps everything down in mere seconds.
Unfortunately WoW killed any CC need during WotLK and shortly before. Buffs became standard and most classes had similar buffs for support, so it pretty much became a trinity.
I never had any issues with the trinity. I don't know why it was ever under siege. It still allowed for 'in between' classes for those who didn't want to be one of the three. GW2 seems to work fine without it, but it makes for melee battles that don't have much strategy as far as I'm concerned. It's just a zerg IMO. The trinity allowed groups to play together as a team, and provided a bit more strategy as far as I'm concerned, since you had to keep people alive, or keep away the monsters from the squishies.
To each his own, but my vote goes to the trinity. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.
I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.
You should realize that without trinity your role in combat can be much greater than just healing. In gw2 you can finish the boss without help if you play perfect. I did so myself and was quite proud of saving the party from a wipe. In a healer/tank setup you are powerless if your companion dies to his mistake.
I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.
I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.
You should realize that without trinity your role in combat can be much greater than just healing. In gw2 you can finish the boss without help if you play perfect. I did so myself and was quite proud of saving the party from a wipe. In a healer/tank setup you are powerless if your companion dies to his mistake.
this is one thing i really enjoy about gw2 system.. when i played my healer in Rift if I get hosed the group was toast.. but like you said in GW2 any good player can make a rally and bring the team back.. makes combat much more exciting to me and way less predicatable.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
hmm how to put it, while i dont hate on people who want to not have the holy trinity i prefer it.
why for me is simple i like to know what role im to fullfill, in real life its the same way i like a class to be able to fullfill multiple roles but i like everyone to know what their job is withen the group. this makes play easyier and more fluid, where everyone being able to do everything make it more chotic.
also it give people more reason to group, where as the ability to do everything incorages people to solo. i understand the concept of i wanna group because i want to not because i have to, but in reality this dousnt work in MMOs because we would never meet new people and make new friends if we didnt have a reason to group togther with people we dont aleady know
this is a bit of a ramble and in the end the holy trinity will always be liked or disliked as a matter of opion but this is mine, and i wont fault others for theirs.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Personally didn't enjoy the healing in GW2, mainly in PvP. Though it was nice for solo PvE.
1v1 PvP was like a 2 round boxing match, often seeing who would hit their heal first.
I think the personal heals/escapes for every class also ruined some aspects of RvR base strategy. Was much harder for defenders to kill someone on the ground since even an alpha-strike could be quickly countered by a self-heal and roll away (much faster than a healer could have targeted and healed that player imo.) Likewise, defenders could be pretty idiotic and if they got into trouble just heal and roll away. I spent most of my time just pulling guys off walls. Just my view of it, I've played healers in WoW, Rift, so I enjoy it, but I wouldnt' be opposed to a new system if it was done right.
Another reason i didn't enjoy the GW2 system completely was that I thought it softened specialization a bit. Even a glass cannon thief/Hardcore DPS had a heal. Made them more of a bronze cannon.
I prefer the trinity system, i personally wanna just focas on one role. Everyone being able to do everything is way to much. Should be magic casters in the back line, while melee fighters up front next to the mob. Didn't like playing a guardian in GW2, couldn't tank and all the healing spells was just shot out in front of my guy in a strait line, only healing who was directly in front of me. Hated that. Really need to beable to target allies to heal or AE heals. Plus with no hate system battles just turn into a mess, no orgenization at all. In GW2 only time we ever planed ahead of time was certain parts of a dungeon. PVE was nothing but a zerg fest, sadly. Even with the dragons.... no stratagy their.
Comments
I think it''s less about a trinity of roles (keep in mind that I'm for a "soft" trinity or just about anything where one can have a focus on some sort of role) and what you said in that it's more about AI and how these encounters play out. You can have definite roles and still have complex fights but as you put it, the AI needs to be adaptive, intelligent, and more than rinse and repeat encounters.
Part of this is that mmo devs have completely gone down the simplification rabbit hole. I agree that just having a Tank shouting and keeping aggro and then the Damage dealers burning down the enemy (and for "some" reason they don't mind this) and then a healer to fill up a Tank is horrible. And it does contribute to Auto Pilot. But that has nothing to do with the stalwart warrior protectingg those who are not tough but who wield arcane powers or who skirt the fight waitting for moments of opportunity.
I play a tank in Tera, a game that does have roles, and it was quite refreshing for the 30 foot tall Baddie go for the healer, I couldn't get aggro so I charged across the room, putting myself between it and the healer, shield slammed it and then turned to throw out a chain and lpull a mob to me that was charging for another player in the group. It wasn't about being the tank and soaking damage as opposed to being an active participant in the fight. Which is mor e to my taste.
Part of this is also a group of players who are more interested in "leveling fast" and getting good loot. Therefore the entire experience has come down to a simplified skinner box.
take quest, run to glowy area on map, kill 10 things, run back to other glowy area on map, turn in quest, get reward, rinse and repeat.
As opposed to allowing players to explore, search, scout, find their objectives, fight if need be and during that fight they excercise their specializations that, because they work together, they are greater than their own individual contributions.
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how sophisicated do you think AI in an mmo is going to get? are mobs going to completely ignore heavily armored characters and concentrate solely on unarmored casters? are they going to retreat while relentlessly firing projectiles until everyone is dead?
pen and paper games aren't restricted by video game dynamics so you can't really compare them in that regard.
I like gw2 system, however for most it a zerg. Because 2 reasons,
First with their system it is possible to work together, hell you can do really awesome things if done right. With 2 Mesmers you can keep all buff perma up, if done right. However, because their no YOU MUST DO THIS,,,, people get confuse and so it turn into a zerg. Since it take's a lot more communication to do team work in gw2. Which only people who have teamspeak and know each other well can do it right.
Second they made dgns and such way to freaking easy, and so it not needed and when something not needed people dont use it. Dgn are to the point that a fullly dps team, with no support are tanking abilities can beat them.
Hell I can solo multy dgns and I know a dps warrior that can solo dgns.
So this is a major problems, now the higher lvl fract can make it where a team gotta use some teamwork to beat it. However, those are the only things. This needs to be fix, make it where dgns are extrmely hard. At first people will cry and some will elave the game. However, team work among the players will start to apper.
i agree with your first point and two mesmers working together is really amazing.. took down a champion with just one other mesmer.. took us about 30 min but we did it without a single down was epic stuff:)
for dungeons i find it funny how polar opposite people are on dungeon diffculty.. one half says they are brain dead easy the other half quit because they are too hard.. dungeons being too hard especially now you can't rez zerg the encounters is one of the most common complaints i see... yes you can beat them with 5 warriors but those 5 warriors would have to all really know their class which is how the dungeons were intended to be in the first place.. any combo of classes should be able to complete a dungeon as long as the group is skilled enough.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Yes and No.
Bringing the Trio back / making those builds necessary would serve to make people experiment with builds that work well together. On the other hand it will bring us back to predjudices like "Necros and eles can't tank" or "Guardian and ele you heal" and parties will be far more picky.
It's nice but I think it would just serve them better to introduce boss mechanics beyond "have more hitpoints" and "spawn more dudes". Fights aren't hard enough in GW2, they are just long.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Most games also roll up controller, AoE, buffer, debuffer, etc into the trinity. It hasn't been a pure trinity for awhile.
But yes, I do support the trinity, it works, and I haven't seen an alternative option so far that I cared for.
For me it all depends on the game. However; I also feel like we should have a choice and not just be subjected to one option. I like the hybrid some days and some days I want the trinity... That's just me though
I like to be a healer. Sometimes its fairly rewarding to be the only reason a group was able to take down some very hard to kill boss because you placed the right heals at the right time. I like GW2, but there is something about the trinity that just makes MMOs fun for me.
I say keep the trinity and let GW do their own thing, and have a little bit of both. People seem to think its impossible, but not all games have to be exactly the same.
"cinnamon buns"
- Pickles
Thank god it's gone.
The old trinity of tank, healer and dps is gone, it was boring and it's outdated.
There are still class roles however, both in MMORPGSs like GW2 and in MOBA: things like support, damage, CC, etc
These new roles show that gameplay has become more complex and more skill-based.
Let's face it, tank aggro mechanics, healing being just pressing frames and making the green bar go up, damage being just a matter of playing simon-says with a few buttons (or more usually a naga macro) - all this stuff is old, and it's crap gameplay.
Games like WoW are dinosaurs now, played by kids and the immature adults who can't move on.
The real games that gamers play are things like LoL, DOTA, GW2, etc - games that have done away with outdated RPG mechanics and are more skill-based, more flexible and ultimately much deeper. And without 36 hotkeys either.
i have to agree with this guy !
getting out of the gameplay the holy trinity its like moving the limits from the sky to the stars ..! just the trinity it was good back 10 years but now i cant accept a designer who sticks on that formula ...
about GW2 they have done nice work and i appreciate their expirement, of course it has its flaws and some dungeons are really scrapped but theior core mechanic its awesome, and here you just mentioned 2 mesmers cooperate, have you get an engineer who plays with bombs which heals ??? or i play in Aurora Glade, and sometimes i WvW with a guild called Furious cookies and we have gone many times 15-20 guys against double enemies ... and i am not any pro player
with the trinity system the whole game would be boring, i cant play games based on the trinity system and on the forced roles ..
Don't forget D3. D3 has very much varying mechanics. Wizard that freeze-stun mobs. Witch doctors that summon zombie dogs and constantly blowing them up (no i am not kidding .. this is the zero dog build .. you just keep summoning and destorying them). Barb that wizz around in a whirlwind.
What I don't like about the trinity is that you get stuck in your role. The GW2 system seemed to try and free people from playing a certain part only, and that is something that seems to go against the collective MMORPG DNA these days.
I hate playing a one trick pony though, it makes the battles too predictable. The chaos of GW2 is certainly hard to get used to, but at least they tried something different.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Strickly talking aboue PvE, my problem with GW2 is it's not balance.
And since there is no "holy trinity" everyone should be the same efficient wise. Everyclass should "be able" to tank the same, dps the same, defense the same, support the same. Else there will always be class that are favored for certain dungeon.
I think everyone know by now, dps warrior is by far the best class to have in speed farm. And guardian is by far the best class for harder dungeon because of their defensive ability.
Even though other class may potentially having high dps or very surival, they just don't have warrior's ability to buff their teamates, and guardians' ability to help their teamates defensively at the same time.
The trinity system is better than what GW2 has. Actually, having played MMORPG's since 2002, I have no idea why people call it the trinity system, since there's actually several roles. Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Magic DPS, Buffer, Healer, Controller. Those roles were typically filled in every group in MMO's pre-WoW. When WoW came out, it combined many of those roles to narrow down the amount of people needed and for 1v1 balance sake.
That's my roundabout way of saying that GW2 didn't eliminate the need for the "trinity." The game still requires players to fill certain roles in each group. People act like what they're doing wasn't being done with the trinity. People are more self aware of controlling and supporting now, but you always had those jobs in other MMORPG's, it's just games like WoW made it pointless to try since you could just aoe dps everything down in mere seconds.
Unfortunately WoW killed any CC need during WotLK and shortly before. Buffs became standard and most classes had similar buffs for support, so it pretty much became a trinity.
I never had any issues with the trinity. I don't know why it was ever under siege. It still allowed for 'in between' classes for those who didn't want to be one of the three. GW2 seems to work fine without it, but it makes for melee battles that don't have much strategy as far as I'm concerned. It's just a zerg IMO. The trinity allowed groups to play together as a team, and provided a bit more strategy as far as I'm concerned, since you had to keep people alive, or keep away the monsters from the squishies.
To each his own, but my vote goes to the trinity. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
I self identify as a monkey.
You should realize that without trinity your role in combat can be much greater than just healing. In gw2 you can finish the boss without help if you play perfect. I did so myself and was quite proud of saving the party from a wipe. In a healer/tank setup you are powerless if your companion dies to his mistake.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
this is one thing i really enjoy about gw2 system.. when i played my healer in Rift if I get hosed the group was toast.. but like you said in GW2 any good player can make a rally and bring the team back.. makes combat much more exciting to me and way less predicatable.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
hmm how to put it, while i dont hate on people who want to not have the holy trinity i prefer it.
why for me is simple i like to know what role im to fullfill, in real life its the same way i like a class to be able to fullfill multiple roles but i like everyone to know what their job is withen the group. this makes play easyier and more fluid, where everyone being able to do everything make it more chotic.
also it give people more reason to group, where as the ability to do everything incorages people to solo. i understand the concept of i wanna group because i want to not because i have to, but in reality this dousnt work in MMOs because we would never meet new people and make new friends if we didnt have a reason to group togther with people we dont aleady know
this is a bit of a ramble and in the end the holy trinity will always be liked or disliked as a matter of opion but this is mine, and i wont fault others for theirs.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Personally didn't enjoy the healing in GW2, mainly in PvP. Though it was nice for solo PvE.
1v1 PvP was like a 2 round boxing match, often seeing who would hit their heal first.
I think the personal heals/escapes for every class also ruined some aspects of RvR base strategy. Was much harder for defenders to kill someone on the ground since even an alpha-strike could be quickly countered by a self-heal and roll away (much faster than a healer could have targeted and healed that player imo.) Likewise, defenders could be pretty idiotic and if they got into trouble just heal and roll away. I spent most of my time just pulling guys off walls. Just my view of it, I've played healers in WoW, Rift, so I enjoy it, but I wouldnt' be opposed to a new system if it was done right.
Another reason i didn't enjoy the GW2 system completely was that I thought it softened specialization a bit. Even a glass cannon thief/Hardcore DPS had a heal. Made them more of a bronze cannon.