i dont want single player in my mmo. The way GW2 did the personal story its acceptable (it could have been better too) because its not required to experience the lore of the game. If TESO has a strong focus on solo play instead of grouping just because its a TES game.... hey, after 250 hours in skyrim i havent beat it.... and also got Morrowind and Oblivion, i dont need a solo game with subscription (pretty sure theyll pick that model)
Originally posted by rojo6934 i dont want single player in my mmo. The way GW2 did the personal story its acceptable (it could have been better too) because its not required to experience the lore of the game. If TESO has a strong focus on solo play instead of grouping just because its a TES game.... hey, after 250 hours in skyrim i havent beat it.... and also got Morrowind and Oblivion, i dont need a solo game with subscription (pretty sure theyll pick that model)
Don't play then. There are plenty of other games with forced grouping for you to choose from.
The all gear is equal here wont last at all guys. The WoW nerds will invade or someone will cry and they will cave and people will want end game gear to be better, ect. I've seen this before.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Wait crafted gear is equal? That can't be right, we have "facts" from several "mmo experts" on these very forums that this is a wow style raid gear beats all game
Wish there was a +1 button on this site...
I've always liked the thought that a themepark MMO should do away with bonus rewards for quests.
No chunk of XP, no sword of +1 troll smiting.
Leave all the reward for DOING the task - the XP and treasures you get while exploring and fighting etc. to complete the quests objectives.
You know, like how Skyrim does quests for the most part.
That way, questing becomes a guide and/or a possible path, not the only viable way to play the game.
Questing and quest givers become sign posts - directing you towards (hopefully) fun content.
Rather than loot dispensers handing out arbitrary tasks.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Wait crafted gear is equal? That can't be right, we have "facts" from several "mmo experts" on these very forums that this is a wow style raid gear beats all game
Wish there was a +1 button on this site...
I've always liked the thought that a themepark MMO should do away with bonus rewards for quests.
No chunk of XP, no sword of +1 troll smiting.
Leave all the reward for DOING the task - the XP and treasures you get while exploring and fighting etc. to complete the quests objectives.
You know, like how Skyrim does quests for the most part.
That way, questing becomes a guide and/or a possible path, not the only viable way to play the game.
Questing and quest givers become sign posts - directing you towards (hopefully) fun content.
Rather than loot dispensers handing out arbitrary tasks.
I agree XP rewards should be done away with. But I fully understand why they do it. Its purpose serves as easy timed controlled leveling. Which MMO's have become easy mode. If you were to bump the xp gained from killing mobs you would have people grinding to cap in a few days, instead of the already super easy leveling process of a couple weeks. You cut the xp from mobs all the sudden everyone complaining about to big of a grind. I do not mind getting a physical reward like gold or an item for completing a task.
As for raid gear and crafted gear, an MMO needs gear that is hard to obtain period. Otherwise everyone gets it and becomes bored with the game and moves on. For the majority this has been proven over and over. Where as if there is a goal that people strive to reach, then more people will stay longer. If raid gear is not better, there is no point to have raids. Thus finishing off the last shred of multiplayer in this sad state genre we have now, It really would be signle player online rpg. Then you are left with a glorified LoL or DOTA type mmo. There is a market for both of these these type of games, but dammit there is also a market for real old school type MMORPG's.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by Doogiehowser After playing ES games for so many years it would be odd to not have heavy focus on solo gameplay in TESO. I want to play TESO like i play Skyrim...just me and my sword against the world
Actually I don't want to play that way.....I'd jsut as soon play Skyrim or Morrowind if that is what they are going to do......This needs to be players working together in Elder Scrolls environment.....Just making another single player game with other people around is worthless.
Faction locked zones is stupid. Totally removes the essence of what makes elder scrolls, elder scrolls. I want to be a breton and still travel to see Skyrim. Not be forced to make a Nord in order to go into that area.
Originally posted by rnkis I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!
Doesn't matter if you get it or not. It exists and is a strong and healthy segment of the gaming population. Any developer that ignroes this fact will do so at their peril or are happy with a niche game with its subsequent niche income.
Originally posted by julienkage The all gear is equal here wont last at all guys. The WoW nerds will invade or someone will cry and they will cave and people will want end game gear to be better, ect. I've seen this before.
This is sadly true for any game that intends to offer raiding content. Raiders cannot stand the idea of loot equality. You cannot compare and flaunt the epeen if other playstyles have access to the same rewards. Most developers are just as bad as the raiding crowd when it comes to creating artificial caste systems in their games.
Originally posted by rnkis I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!
Doesn't matter if you get it or not. It exists and is a strong and healthy segment of the gaming population. Any developer that ignroes this fact will do so at their peril or are happy with a niche game with its subsequent niche income.
When I think of an Elder Scrolls Online game in my head, I actually think about just having multiplayer/co-op content I can run with my friends, and PvP matches to pit our characters against each other would be a cool gimmick.
They should have made ESO a co-op online RPG and not even tried to MMO it.
The MMO genre is too restrictive. Too many things you CAN'T do in the MMO space. TOR and Bioware found that out the hard way. I have a feeling Zenimax is going to as well.
Not because ESO is going to be a bad game, but because it's not really prime for a MMO and it's not the game people really want.
What makes ES games such good sandbox RPGs? Because it's MY sandbox. I and ONLY I get to control how the world is shaped and how MY character shapes it.
It'd be cool to be able to invite friends into MY world and to see THEIR world - would be extra cool to also have group-only hard mode dungeons and such to play through together.
No amount of wishful thinking will change the Devs minds at this point. You have to move on or accept it. I have noticed that matt and his team have been avoiding the locked zone question, so it's safe to assume it will launch with it.
If they intend to make crafted gear equal to end game gear, I see that as a good thing. this game's primary focus is Cryrodil PVP. The gear for PVP will not be the same as the raid/crafted so it won't matter much. it just means that the focus on PVE is going to be an optional route of progression, But the games primary focus will be on three faction PVP.
No amount of anger or complaining would have or will change it. Developers don't like changing the design even if it means utter failure at launch. think of them as jackasses with better jobs then you.
"Not even a cray super computer can make this game run well. Thats what happens when you code an MMO in pascal. " - miglor
Originally posted by rnkis I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!
Simply stated, when I do group, I like it to be because I choose to, not because I need to. If none of my friends are on, I want to still be able to log on and achieve things solo. Maybe I'll see someone asking for a hand and group with them and make a new friend, maybe not. I do not like having to get into a PuG if no friends or guildies are around and I don't feel like just mindlessly grinding. A solo-friendly game means I can group on my own terms.
I dont care about solo play. What I care about is for an Elder Scrolls game be in the spirit of its predecessors. Which mean an open world where you can roam as you like (if you can handle the risks).
ESO will be faction locked so we know the above statement wont be possible unless you consider being locked in your faction's zone as being an open world.
Originally posted by rnkis I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!
Doesn't matter if you get it or not. It exists and is a strong and healthy segment of the gaming population. Any developer that ignroes this fact will do so at their peril or are happy with a niche game with its subsequent niche income.
When I think of an Elder Scrolls Online game in my head, I actually think about just having multiplayer/co-op content I can run with my friends, and PvP matches to pit our characters against each other would be a cool gimmick.
They should have made ESO a co-op online RPG and not even tried to MMO it.
The MMO genre is too restrictive. Too many things you CAN'T do in the MMO space. TOR and Bioware found that out the hard way. I have a feeling Zenimax is going to as well.
Not because ESO is going to be a bad game, but because it's not really prime for a MMO and it's not the game people really want.
What makes ES games such good sandbox RPGs? Because it's MY sandbox. I and ONLY I get to control how the world is shaped and how MY character shapes it.
It'd be cool to be able to invite friends into MY world and to see THEIR world - would be extra cool to also have group-only hard mode dungeons and such to play through together.
The ThemePark MMO genre is restrictive, sandbox MMO's are not neccessarily so. Problem is that there are so few sandbox MMO's of decent quality, that people think that just because ThemePark MMOs are restrictive then all MMOs must be.
The only restriction a sandbox MMO's have is that not everyone can be the hero who saves the world. Other than that, there are very few mandatory restrictions.
I dont care about solo play. What I care about is for an Elder Scrolls game be in the spirit of its predecessors. Which mean an open world where you can roam as you like (if you can handle the risks).
ESO will be faction locked so we know the above statement wont be possible unless you consider being locked in your faction's zone as being an open world.
Zoned (at least to me) implies small areas closed in by load screens, AOC,DDO, GW1, etc,..
If I can travel from the region surrounding Seyda Neen to the region surrounding Ebonheart, on to Vivec, then to Ald Sotha and beyond it would feel like I'm playing an open world game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by rnkis I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!
Doesn't matter if you get it or not. It exists and is a strong and healthy segment of the gaming population. Any developer that ignroes this fact will do so at their peril or are happy with a niche game with its subsequent niche income.
Exactly. There are quite a lot of people who are happy with this trend. I happen to be one of them. I *REALLY* do not want to be *forced* to group with strangers (who get stranger as time goes by... ^^). I can tolerate it for dungeons and such (if necessary), but beyond that I simply will not play a game that forces it. I suspect many others are of like mind, given the trend lines.
Originally posted by julienkage The all gear is equal here wont last at all guys. The WoW nerds will invade or someone will cry and they will cave and people will want end game gear to be better, ect. I've seen this before.
This is sadly true for any game that intends to offer raiding content. Raiders cannot stand the idea of loot equality. You cannot compare and flaunt the epeen if other playstyles have access to the same rewards. Most developers are just as bad as the raiding crowd when it comes to creating artificial caste systems in their games.
I suspect thats because many are raiders themselves... ^^ I have no problem with top tier crafted gear being as good as raid gear. It would be just another possible path for upgrading (which is what motivates many).
Solo play is important to me as I sometimes work unsociable hours and therefore grab an hour or two of play at what would be around 4am local time. Not much chance for a good group at that time.
The article makes a fine point about choosing a path and going for an explore. This to me is perfect solo game play. Check out an area, expand your map, try and get access to a hard to reach spot.
If TESO does not support this kind of exploration well I will not be spending much money on subbing
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
Originally posted by rnkis I still... just don't get... why people want a MMOrpg to be a single player RPG experience. I. Do. Not. Get. It. It's an MMO! NOT a single player RPG!
Doesn't matter if you get it or not. It exists and is a strong and healthy segment of the gaming population. Any developer that ignroes this fact will do so at their peril or are happy with a niche game with its subsequent niche income.
When I think of an Elder Scrolls Online game in my head, I actually think about just having multiplayer/co-op content I can run with my friends, and PvP matches to pit our characters against each other would be a cool gimmick.
They should have made ESO a co-op online RPG and not even tried to MMO it.
The MMO genre is too restrictive. Too many things you CAN'T do in the MMO space. TOR and Bioware found that out the hard way. I have a feeling Zenimax is going to as well.
Not because ESO is going to be a bad game, but because it's not really prime for a MMO and it's not the game people really want.
What makes ES games such good sandbox RPGs? Because it's MY sandbox. I and ONLY I get to control how the world is shaped and how MY character shapes it.
It'd be cool to be able to invite friends into MY world and to see THEIR world - would be extra cool to also have group-only hard mode dungeons and such to play through together.
The ThemePark MMO genre is restrictive, sandbox MMO's are not neccessarily so. Problem is that there are so few sandbox MMO's of decent quality, that people think that just because ThemePark MMOs are restrictive then all MMOs must be.
The only restriction a sandbox MMO's have is that not everyone can be the hero who saves the world. Other than that, there are very few mandatory restrictions.
That depends on the game. WAY too many people think that "sand box" HAS to be a Free For All, Full Loot gank fest. That perspective auto niches any game that uses it. We've seen how well MO and DF did with that approach...
What concerns me is the extent to which being PvP centric, will impact TES. These games cost countless millions (of other peoples money) to create. The western market has been moving in the PvE/theme park direction for years now. Attempting to buck that trend, imposes inherent limitations on the amount of ROI that can be expected. Even the sainted Three Faction Combat (tm) will not change those demographics.
no no way player made iteams dont mix in with a randome drop sequence what if a player just wants to explore without crafting look at it this way a player finally gets a weapon from the random drop the best weapon thats in the game finally working hard to get it and then bam some player makes a weapon that bests the top made weapon then everyone has to buy it instead of getting in through a random drop that would ruine this game majorly me im not a crafter but i love to explore in the elder scroll games sure in skyrim i had no choice but to craft weapons and armor but thats because the iteams in the game couldnt beat the ones that where made by the player you could make an iteam so powerful it was insanely not fair to the enemy/monsters. the whole solo play and multiplay are fine by me butthis one subject concerns me as a player and a fan of the games
so my question is will the player made iteams be in the random drops as well or will they be seprate?
Honestly, I really hope they get away from the one-button crafting that every MMO besides EQ2 and Vanguard have. I really love the minigames. It's like I'm really making something, even if it's only psychologically.
Also, I really love the idea that you're not out hunting for quest hubs to take you by the hand and steer you in one storyline direction. Or at least I hope that's what they're putting in.
Forced grouping is so 1999. A modern game should allow all playstyles.
Did anyone else take a look at that screen shot of the three guys and notice how poor the graphics engine is? Im not saying the art style is poor im talking about the incredibly low polygon rate in the leaves grass buszhes and trees. I get that most MMO's dont put alot of that detail in but do you really want that detail if this is how it will look? Hopefuly this is not really a screen shot and its just art that ESO threw together.
Comments
Don't play then. There are plenty of other games with forced grouping for you to choose from.
Randddom items should have been in all mmos.
Imagine diablo item style in a mmo.It would be simply amazing
Open world....with 3 locked explorable area's....
I don't think it means what you think it means!
Wish there was a +1 button on this site...
I've always liked the thought that a themepark MMO should do away with bonus rewards for quests.
No chunk of XP, no sword of +1 troll smiting.
Leave all the reward for DOING the task - the XP and treasures you get while exploring and fighting etc. to complete the quests objectives.
You know, like how Skyrim does quests for the most part.
That way, questing becomes a guide and/or a possible path, not the only viable way to play the game.
Questing and quest givers become sign posts - directing you towards (hopefully) fun content.
Rather than loot dispensers handing out arbitrary tasks.
I agree XP rewards should be done away with. But I fully understand why they do it. Its purpose serves as easy timed controlled leveling. Which MMO's have become easy mode. If you were to bump the xp gained from killing mobs you would have people grinding to cap in a few days, instead of the already super easy leveling process of a couple weeks. You cut the xp from mobs all the sudden everyone complaining about to big of a grind. I do not mind getting a physical reward like gold or an item for completing a task.
As for raid gear and crafted gear, an MMO needs gear that is hard to obtain period. Otherwise everyone gets it and becomes bored with the game and moves on. For the majority this has been proven over and over. Where as if there is a goal that people strive to reach, then more people will stay longer. If raid gear is not better, there is no point to have raids. Thus finishing off the last shred of multiplayer in this sad state genre we have now, It really would be signle player online rpg. Then you are left with a glorified LoL or DOTA type mmo. There is a market for both of these these type of games, but dammit there is also a market for real old school type MMORPG's.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Actually I don't want to play that way.....I'd jsut as soon play Skyrim or Morrowind if that is what they are going to do......This needs to be players working together in Elder Scrolls environment.....Just making another single player game with other people around is worthless.
Faction locked zones is stupid. Totally removes the essence of what makes elder scrolls, elder scrolls. I want to be a breton and still travel to see Skyrim. Not be forced to make a Nord in order to go into that area.Doesn't matter if you get it or not. It exists and is a strong and healthy segment of the gaming population. Any developer that ignroes this fact will do so at their peril or are happy with a niche game with its subsequent niche income.
This is sadly true for any game that intends to offer raiding content. Raiders cannot stand the idea of loot equality. You cannot compare and flaunt the epeen if other playstyles have access to the same rewards. Most developers are just as bad as the raiding crowd when it comes to creating artificial caste systems in their games.
When I think of an Elder Scrolls Online game in my head, I actually think about just having multiplayer/co-op content I can run with my friends, and PvP matches to pit our characters against each other would be a cool gimmick.
They should have made ESO a co-op online RPG and not even tried to MMO it.
The MMO genre is too restrictive. Too many things you CAN'T do in the MMO space. TOR and Bioware found that out the hard way. I have a feeling Zenimax is going to as well.
Not because ESO is going to be a bad game, but because it's not really prime for a MMO and it's not the game people really want.
What makes ES games such good sandbox RPGs? Because it's MY sandbox. I and ONLY I get to control how the world is shaped and how MY character shapes it.
It'd be cool to be able to invite friends into MY world and to see THEIR world - would be extra cool to also have group-only hard mode dungeons and such to play through together.
No amount of wishful thinking will change the Devs minds at this point. You have to move on or accept it. I have noticed that matt and his team have been avoiding the locked zone question, so it's safe to assume it will launch with it.
If they intend to make crafted gear equal to end game gear, I see that as a good thing. this game's primary focus is Cryrodil PVP. The gear for PVP will not be the same as the raid/crafted so it won't matter much. it just means that the focus on PVE is going to be an optional route of progression, But the games primary focus will be on three faction PVP.
No amount of anger or complaining would have or will change it. Developers don't like changing the design even if it means utter failure at launch. think of them as jackasses with better jobs then you.
"Not even a cray super computer can make this game run well. Thats what happens when you code an MMO in pascal. " - miglor
Simply stated, when I do group, I like it to be because I choose to, not because I need to. If none of my friends are on, I want to still be able to log on and achieve things solo. Maybe I'll see someone asking for a hand and group with them and make a new friend, maybe not. I do not like having to get into a PuG if no friends or guildies are around and I don't feel like just mindlessly grinding. A solo-friendly game means I can group on my own terms.
I dont care about solo play. What I care about is for an Elder Scrolls game be in the spirit of its predecessors. Which mean an open world where you can roam as you like (if you can handle the risks).
ESO will be faction locked so we know the above statement wont be possible unless you consider being locked in your faction's zone as being an open world.
My gaming blog
The ThemePark MMO genre is restrictive, sandbox MMO's are not neccessarily so. Problem is that there are so few sandbox MMO's of decent quality, that people think that just because ThemePark MMOs are restrictive then all MMOs must be.
The only restriction a sandbox MMO's have is that not everyone can be the hero who saves the world. Other than that, there are very few mandatory restrictions.
My gaming blog
Zoned (at least to me) implies small areas closed in by load screens, AOC,DDO, GW1, etc,..
If I can travel from the region surrounding Seyda Neen to the region surrounding Ebonheart, on to Vivec, then to Ald Sotha and beyond it would feel like I'm playing an open world game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Exactly. There are quite a lot of people who are happy with this trend. I happen to be one of them. I *REALLY* do not want to be *forced* to group with strangers (who get stranger as time goes by... ^^). I can tolerate it for dungeons and such (if necessary), but beyond that I simply will not play a game that forces it. I suspect many others are of like mind, given the trend lines.
I suspect thats because many are raiders themselves... ^^ I have no problem with top tier crafted gear being as good as raid gear. It would be just another possible path for upgrading (which is what motivates many).
The article makes a fine point about choosing a path and going for an explore. This to me is perfect solo game play. Check out an area, expand your map, try and get access to a hard to reach spot.
If TESO does not support this kind of exploration well I will not be spending much money on subbing
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
That depends on the game. WAY too many people think that "sand box" HAS to be a Free For All, Full Loot gank fest. That perspective auto niches any game that uses it. We've seen how well MO and DF did with that approach...
What concerns me is the extent to which being PvP centric, will impact TES. These games cost countless millions (of other peoples money) to create. The western market has been moving in the PvE/theme park direction for years now. Attempting to buck that trend, imposes inherent limitations on the amount of ROI that can be expected. Even the sainted Three Faction Combat (tm) will not change those demographics.
Honestly, I really hope they get away from the one-button crafting that every MMO besides EQ2 and Vanguard have. I really love the minigames. It's like I'm really making something, even if it's only psychologically.
Also, I really love the idea that you're not out hunting for quest hubs to take you by the hand and steer you in one storyline direction. Or at least I hope that's what they're putting in.