Foundation Principle #4 Choice Matters!

MightyPit

Foundation Principle #4 - Choice Matters!

 

I love the Ideas covered with this one. 

Fearum

Yeah I agree, I've liked them all, but this one is the best so far. I like to have choices that have good and bad consequences.

Zinzan

Im still not sure how MJ justifies the "RPG" aspect of the game, it seems to be all based on player generated role-playing....which is rarely a popular thing as most people feel a little silly doing it and most (particularly pvp players) generally don't seem interrested in that kind of thing.

Can character development in an insular environment really be considered role-playing in an mmo? Im not sure it can.

OgreRaper

Banes and Boons

Coldren

I am liking the sound of this game more and more, from the theoretical standpoint. These essays have been pretty much in line with my interests.

I will have to follow it and see how the theory is applied.

Good luck to Mark and CSE!

MightyPit

In my opinion, role playing is not solely based on talking in old-fashioned ways or interact with NPC to do a specific task for them.

Role playing is at first hand filling out a role and interacting with your teammates (and enemies) in a way which is unique to you. When you are choose to be a mage, you are seen as a mage at first by all of those who do not know you personally. And  you act like a mage. In other mmos the image of a mage is quite static. The class has a defined set of spells and that's it.

Here, at least I think I have read this between the lines of this principle letter, you can fill the role as a mage even more unique. You can play as a (small) sword wielding mage when all of you mage fellows wielding wands, for example. You can fill out the role more unique then we are used to from other  mmos. Whether you do this because it is a good working build or because you like just to be different is your thing.

Another example: Imagine you are a guild or alliance leader, negotiating a strategy with other leaders. Is this role playing or is this simply playing the game in a good way?

In my opinion, if you don't have to think whether you are playing your role or just playing the game, it is a good RPG. And I have the feeling that CU will be the one of the best.

Xarnthal

Unfortunately for Jacobs some of us don't forget easily. He's saying all the right things which is good, but it only matters once the game details truly come out. Many developers, especially indie developers, say all these things and then when the game comes out it is completely different. The biggest worry I have right now is that he is really attempting to draw in the niche crowd, to the point that he's repeating himself, but he needs to also understand that the same niche crowd is not one to be fooled by the words of a developer and only cares about the game they produce. As much as I want to believe he intends to target the minority of gamers, I think he's still trying to make a game that the masses want. The new hotness right now is PvP games, and Sandbox PvP-oriented games. It just seems to me that he is capitalizing on the genre that is currently FotM and trying to hand us a Savage rather than giving us our Champion.

Until this game is in beta with working systems, I'm not going to allow myself to be too excited. Of all the MMORPG developers out there I trust Mark Jacobs the least given that every single expansion of DAoC and WAR were intended to make those games 'easier to get into' for the masses and less niche in the process.

 

MightyPit

I do not agree with you.

Sure, the expansions evolves both games, and there was some stuff which makes playing them easier. But first of all the expansions bring content to the games. And I can't see how spellcrafting for example makes things easier to new or old players.

Both games were not released for a niche crowd. They aim for the big market. Late daoc and warhammer has to compete with games like eq2 and wow. And the market evolves quickly. How can you critize making the games more open for a wider audience? Selling games is still a business to make money with.

If people have fun playing the game and spending money for it, good. If people don't have fun with it, they should move on to a game which suites better for them.

In the case of CU they have a different starting position. 

1. They aim on a niche crowd. Believe it or not, that's up to you. But as long as the oposite is not evidenced, I believe this.

2.  No publisher who also wants a piece of this cake.

3. Small(er)  scenario: Focus on RvR.

4. Foundation Principles are set in stone. They are at a prominent place, not hidden in a forum post on page 1xxx. The community can nail City State Entertainment down on that. As Mark stated elsewhere, he is willing to lose player due to staying to these principles.

 

But, and this is something you can fear of, or hope for: This game will evolve also over the years. It will not the same as at the beginning. At one point or another, some players will decide to stop playing it. That's how life is. The wheel turns and ages come and go..

 

Ice-Queen

Sounds good. Can't wait til they can get started on it.

MumboJumbo

Originally posted by Zinzan

Im still not sure how MJ justifies the "RPG" aspect of the game, it seems to be all based on player generated role-playing....which is rarely a popular thing as most people feel a little silly doing it and most (particularly pvp players) generally don't seem interrested in that kind of thing.

Can character development in an insular environment really be considered role-playing in an mmo? Im not sure it can.

It's a good question: This article I found interesting on "RPG" genres: Focusing Creativity: RPG Genres

It definitely sounds like "a call to war" / "in a time of war" sort of RPG?!

skyexile

somebody on my forums pointed out this:

"Dwarves that have beards that grow as the character levels up"

I do wonder how much of this stuff we will really see ingame.

CluckingChicken

Originally posted by skyexile

somebody on my forums pointed out this:

"Dwarves that have beards that grow as the character levels up"

I do wonder how much of this stuff we will really see ingame.

 

Where did you read that?

skyexile

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Originally posted by CluckingChicken
Originally posted by skyexile somebody on my forums pointed out this: "Dwarves that have beards that grow as the character levels up" I do wonder how much of this stuff we will really see ingame.

 

Where did you read that?

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that was one of many features that was said to be in WAR, but never seen.

tom_gore

Hopefully we will still have enough character customization options too. No need for boob sliders, but there is no reason to only have 4 hair colours either.

Other than that, still sounds good. If MJ can pull all this off, CU will be quite a complex game, which bodes well for a game focused solely on RvR and player conflict. If you don't have any PvE gear treadmill you need to have lots of other toys to keep you occupied (and bashing the enemy realms into a bloody pulp).

 

krietos1

Little wary of genders having stat differences, coming from the perspective of a male min/maxer I don't really want to ever be put in the position of having to deal with playing a female character and dealing with the difference in the way people will treat you because of it.

skyexile

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Originally posted by krietos1
Little wary of genders having stat differences, coming from the perspective of a male min/maxer I don't really want to ever be put in the position of having to deal with playing a female character and dealing with the difference in the way people will treat you because of it.

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And i dont want to have to look at a males butt allday!

meddyck

My concern is you'll have a situation like in DAOC at release where players didn't really understand all the nuances of the game yet and the character creator led them to make poor stat choices like allocating points to strength on a highlander cleric (cough, cough). But as long as the choices are explained well and accurately in game and there is good external documentation and character planning tools (it would be nice if the developer provided those for once instead of requiring fan websites to do them), then I'm fine with it.

tom_gore

Originally posted by skyexile

 

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Originally posted by krietos1
Little wary of genders having stat differences, coming from the perspective of a male min/maxer I don't really want to ever be put in the position of having to deal with playing a female character and dealing with the difference in the way people will treat you because of it.

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And i dont want to have to look at a males butt allday!

Yeah I understand it might get you worked out. One day you'll be ok with that side of your sexuality.

Honestly, the worst possible reason for not playing a male char.

 

skyexile

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Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by skyexile   Originally posted by krietos1 Little wary of genders having stat differences, coming from the perspective of a male min/maxer I don't really want to ever be put in the position of having to deal with playing a female character and dealing with the difference in the way people will treat you because of it.

  And i dont want to have to look at a males butt allday!

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Yeah I understand it might get you worked out. One day you'll be ok with that side of your sexuality.

Honestly, the worst possible reason for not playing a male char.

 

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Well, its not that exact reason...but yes, I would rather look at a female character...surprisingly i like they way the look better than male ones!...Most of the time.

Be sure to checkout the Future Crew site skin in my sig though!

gregoryvg

Originally posted by krietos1
Little wary of genders having stat differences, coming from the perspective of a male min/maxer I don't really want to ever be put in the position of having to deal with playing a female character and dealing with the difference in the way people will treat you because of it.

And probably there were only be cases where the female characters will be better.  I doubt you will see a case where a male avatar would be better; whether melee or magic.