DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.
It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.
it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!
Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm. In the beginning, you very much needed to scout and roam your frontiers because that was the only way to find out what the enemy was doing. Later they added systems like guard death spam or symbols and flames on the realm map that made scouting less necessary. If your zerg wasn't well organized and led, it would die and accomplish nothing and your keeps and relics would be taken. I'm not sure how you call that PvP for ADD kids. I guess you prefer FFA PvP that requires the very thoughtful tactic of killing somebody 50 levels lower than you while he is PvEing.
DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.
It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.
it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!
Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm. In the beginning, you very much needed to scout and roam your frontiers because that was the only way to find out what the enemy was doing. Later they added systems like guard death spam or symbols and flames on the realm map that made scouting less necessary. If your zerg wasn't well organized and led, it would die and accomplish nothing and your keeps and relics would be taken. I'm not sure how you call that PvP for ADD kids. I guess you prefer FFA PvP that requires the very thoughtful tactic of killing somebody 50 levels lower than you while he is PvEing.
Exactly.
I personally do like the spam/minimap notifications though. It's super important that people know where the action is - but not to the level of planetside's "instant action" type of system.
Now just so you know, this isn't from me, but from the PodCast comments section over at Massively. I just kind of agree with some of his stuff, but feel a forum would be a better place to discuss...so here it is:::
The majority of online gamers that I know today were met through DAoC. I'm sure you have read the countless posts ranking DAoC as the number one all time PVP game. I congratulate on such a stunning and awesome project well done. So many players complained about TOA changing the game for the worse. But in reality, those players missed the whole point. The game needed to expand and evolve. Without TOA, there was no /use2 macro. You couldn't bait a zerg through a gauntlet of speed warps. DAoC was built on RVR as well as PVE. TOA proved that you could improve RVR with time spent in PVE. But now you're telling us that PVE is pointless.
As much as you have been trying to say that you aren't making a game to satisfy the many, CU looks exactly like it. FPS's, arena battles, WAR and Rift's scenarios were forms of PVP to appeal to the masses of ADD kids that couldn't sit long enough to plan, prepare, roam, scout, siege, and defend. I understand that you won't (can't) make DAoC 2, but "Camelot" Unchained. If I'm George Lucas, I don't make a new movie called Star Fights because I just sold Star Wars to Disney.
If you're going to make a new game make it new. Most fans are interested in you, not the name of the title. We believe that you part of the creative force that gave us our love for DAoC. That doesn't mean we want a leaner version of it. RPS has been around forever, although there are very few games that use it. But someone came up with a new version called Dynamite RPS. Innovation makes the industry progress.
I hope they don't listen to whoever wrote this. Who cares what the name is? People like this is who I hope DON'T play the game. This is not going to be a game for PvE people, it has already been said, and I hope they don't backtrack for numbskulls like whoever wrote this.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
The majority of online gamers that I know today were met through DAoC. I'm sure you have read the countless posts ranking DAoC as the number one all time PVP game. I congratulate on such a stunning and awesome project well done.
As much as you have been trying to say that you aren't making a game to satisfy the many, CU looks exactly like it. FPS's, arena battles, WAR and Rift's scenarios were forms of PVP to appeal to the masses of ADD kids that couldn't sit long enough to plan, prepare, roam, scout, siege, and defend.
Snip cause im only replying to the quoted part.
ROSE COLORED GLASSES.
DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.
It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.
it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!
Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com
If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.
And the "Well, it's they're just really old games with outdated graphics, so it's no wonder they died off." News flash: WoW is an old game with outdated graphics, and 9 million people still actively sub to it. A game's age is no excuse.
So, why is it, when a developer comes along and creates a game that promises to be nothing more than a stripped down version of DOAC, that everyone and their mother thinks it will change the face of PvP MMORPGs forever? Has everyone gone mental?! It's not like Dark Age of Camelot isn't still around.
To copy a certian youtube series: "I liked Camelot Unchained better when they called it 'Elder Scrolls Online," and I liked that game better when it was called 'Dark Age of Camelot!' "
Tl;Dr If the thousands of WoW clones released over the years all crashed and burned, what makes you think a game that is trying to clone DAoC or UO will fare any better?
Because people have been screaming for a DAOC clone for the past 4 years? And I have yet to see someone beg for a WoW clone?
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com
If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.
And the "Well, it's they're just really old games with outdated graphics, so it's no wonder they died off." News flash: WoW is an old game with outdated graphics, and 9 million people still actively sub to it. A game's age is no excuse.
So, why is it, when a developer comes along and creates a game that promises to be nothing more than a stripped down version of DOAC, that everyone and their mother thinks it will change the face of PvP MMORPGs forever? Has everyone gone mental?! It's not like Dark Age of Camelot isn't still around.
To copy a certian youtube series: "I liked Camelot Unchained better when they called it 'Elder Scrolls Online," and I liked that game better when it was called 'Dark Age of Camelot!' "
Tl;Dr If the thousands of WoW clones released over the years all crashed and burned, what makes you think a game that is trying to clone DAoC or UO will fare any better?
Because people have been screaming for a DAOC clone for the past 4 years? And I have yet to see someone beg for a WoW clone?
Because people have been screaming for a (UO, AC1, SWG, AO) clone for the past __ years?
People is a funny term because it only takes 2 people doing it to be true. BTW, there is a DaoC clone already, its called Warhammer Online.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.
It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.
it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!
Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm.
Clearly you had nothing real to refute so fell back on trying to discredit me...only to actually discredit yourself.
That is what happens when you cant actually think of a way to refute the points being made...which is that DaoC was the FIRST MMO to funnel players into a controlled PvP envoirment by the game makers who felt the need to force reasons to PvP on you. Something games that came after built on.
DaoC was the cause of what the person I replied to was complaining about.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Canan Jtcgs, seriously just stop. You are sounding pretty outlandish and the weak points you are trying to construct just don't work. Promise.
Originally posted by Fly666monkey
Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com
If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.
Guess thats why you cant seem to actually refute anything being said Canan...because you have no points to even BE weak. Some people like the one quoted above...could actually formulate a thought, put it into words and add to the conversation...all you can do is whine and cry about someone being "wrong" and provide no evidence to back it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com
If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.
And the "Well, it's they're just really old games with outdated graphics, so it's no wonder they died off." News flash: WoW is an old game with outdated graphics, and 9 million people still actively sub to it. A game's age is no excuse.
So, why is it, when a developer comes along and creates a game that promises to be nothing more than a stripped down version of DOAC, that everyone and their mother thinks it will change the face of PvP MMORPGs forever? Has everyone gone mental?! It's not like Dark Age of Camelot isn't still around.
To copy a certian youtube series: "I liked Camelot Unchained better when they called it 'Elder Scrolls Online," and I liked that game better when it was called 'Dark Age of Camelot!' "
Tl;Dr If the thousands of WoW clones released over the years all crashed and burned, what makes you think a game that is trying to clone DAoC or UO will fare any better?
Because people have been screaming for a DAOC clone for the past 4 years? And I have yet to see someone beg for a WoW clone?
Because people have been screaming for a (UO, AC1, SWG, AO) clone for the past __ years?
People is a funny term because it only takes 2 people doing it to be true. BTW, there is a DaoC clone already, its called Warhammer Online.
The only thing WAR has in common with DAoC is some of the same developers and keep sieges. Every other aspect of the game is different from combat to gear dependency to progression.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.
It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.
it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!
Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm.
Clearly you had nothing real to refute so fell back on trying to discredit me...only to actually discredit yourself.
That is what happens when you cant actually think of a way to refute the points being made...which is that DaoC was the FIRST MMO to funnel players into a controlled PvP envoirment by the game makers who felt the need to force reasons to PvP on you. Something games that came after built on.
DaoC was the cause of what the person I replied to was complaining about.
Huh? You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong. And you clearly were wrong here. Did you play DAoC?
So many players complained about TOA changing the game for the worse. But in reality, those players missed the whole point. The game needed to expand and evolve. Without TOA, there was no /use2 macro. You couldn't bait a zerg through a gauntlet of speed warps. DAoC was built on RVR as well as PVE. TOA proved that you could improve RVR with time spent in PVE.
I quit DAoC shortly after ToA along with most of my friends. ToA introduced a massive mandatory (if you wanted to remain competetive) PvE grind. Completely ruined the game for me overnight. An epic fail of SWG NGE proportions.
So many players complained about TOA changing the game for the worse. But in reality, those players missed the whole point. The game needed to expand and evolve. Without TOA, there was no /use2 macro. You couldn't bait a zerg through a gauntlet of speed warps. DAoC was built on RVR as well as PVE. TOA proved that you could improve RVR with time spent in PVE.
I quit DAoC shortly after ToA along with most of my friends. ToA introduced a massive mandatory (if you wanted to remain competetive) PvE grind. Completely ruined the game for me overnight. An epic fail of SWG NGE proportions.
ToA was just unbalanced and a huge time sink. If you could invest that time, then it was (after PvE) fun again.... but no ToA would have been better, for sure. And i am sure, the macro function, also would have worked without ToA.
About the game mechanics... somebody wrote something on "10 year old mechanics", sorry but that does not make sense. Mechanics, in the meaning of rules, can not be "old" they just ARE. Nobody can talk about the technical mechanics already, because they dont exist till now.
Originally posted by Canan Jtcgs, seriously just stop. You are sounding pretty outlandish and the weak points you are trying to construct just don't work. Promise.
Originally posted by Fly666monkey
Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com
If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.
Guess thats why you cant seem to actually refute anything being said Canan...because you have no points to even BE weak. Some people like the one quoted above...could actually formulate a thought, put it into words and add to the conversation...all you can do is whine and cry about someone being "wrong" and provide no evidence to back it.
This isn't even a good argument. UO and DAoC have low subcription numbers now largely because they are 14-16 years old, and at some point players do get tired of old graphics and the same game. Also factor in that a lot of older games have had disasterous expansions or changes done to them after release that cut subscriptions overnight (NGE for SWG or ToA for DAoC are often sited as such.) At it's peak DAoC had a very strong subscription number relative to that period of MMOs. And how many games are still alive past 10 years?
WoW is 9 years old and at 9.6 million subs, an amazing accomplishment. You can easily say WoW has been the greatest success by subscription numbers, and I guess by the logic you quoted above, it is the best game of MMO history? Something that, from looking at your previous posts, i doubt you would agree with.
It's good to see that the only pepole capable of formulating thoughtful responses are those who agree with your side of an argument.
DaoC started the PvP for ADD kids. It placed all PvP into one area, funnelled you into it(yeah I know boarderlands). It took away any actual need to plan, prepare, roam, scout...cause YOUR lands were safe, your focus was set for you, onto one small controlled area.
It was the beginning, other games listed merely built on the limitations created by DaoC. And now after actually having a short back and forth with the man, then listening to yesterdays podcast, he has shown he hasnt actually learned much over the last 13 years. In fact, I cannot think of ANY OTHER game designer that has made 3 MMOs that are built on the exact same structure like he wants to do! Closed faction areas, funneled PvP...its mindboggling, no evolution at all. Worse yet, it would seem that DaoC had a great many designers that have the same issue when looking at TESO, a whole lot of people that havent learned knew game design structures.
it doesnt boad well for this games future. Oh wait, he is targetting a small amount of players...so maybe there is a chance that he will succeed in making a game a few people will like. Hey, best way to do something good is to aim low!
Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm.
Clearly you had nothing real to refute so fell back on trying to discredit me...only to actually discredit yourself.
That is what happens when you cant actually think of a way to refute the points being made...which is that DaoC was the FIRST MMO to funnel players into a controlled PvP envoirment by the game makers who felt the need to force reasons to PvP on you. Something games that came after built on.
DaoC was the cause of what the person I replied to was complaining about.
Huh? You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong. And you clearly were wrong here. Did you play DAoC?
Huh? You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong. And you clearly were wrong here as I will highlight the above and MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER FOR YOU.
Clearly I mentioned the borderlands, the frontier maps.
See, even when you try so hard to take one tiny thing being spoken about out of the whole, you still cannot defend the game properly...speaks volumns about how bad for gaming fanboys are...I mean,you cant even prove a point when taking a person out of context!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Canan Jtcgs, seriously just stop. You are sounding pretty outlandish and the weak points you are trying to construct just don't work. Promise.
Originally posted by Fly666monkey
Absolutely, and you are very much correct about the Rose Colored Galsses bit, and sadly that statement seems to apply to a very large chunk of the people who frequent MMORPG.com
If Dark Age of Camelot was such a good PvP game, why is it all but abandoned these days? If UO was the perfect sandbox, why is it on life support now? Etc, Etc.
Guess thats why you cant seem to actually refute anything being said Canan...because you have no points to even BE weak. Some people like the one quoted above...could actually formulate a thought, put it into words and add to the conversation...all you can do is whine and cry about someone being "wrong" and provide no evidence to back it.
This isn't even a good argument. UO and DAoC have low subcription numbers now largely because they are 14-16 years old, and at some point players do get tired of old graphics and the same game. Also factor in that a lot of older games have had disasterous expansions or changes done to them after release that cut subscriptions overnight (NGE for SWG or ToA for DAoC are often sited as such.) At it's peak DAoC had a very strong subscription number relative to that period of MMOs. And how many games are still alive past 10 years?
WoW is 9 years old and at 9.6 million subs, an amazing accomplishment. You can easily say WoW has been the greatest success by subscription numbers, and I guess by the logic you quoted above, it is the best game of MMO history? Something that, from looking at your previous posts, i doubt you would agree with.
It's good to see that the only pepole capable of formulating thoughtful responses are those who agree with your side of an argument.
Odd, because LIneage is older than DAoC and just a little bit younger than UO and has more than a million Asian subscribers. It's more popular than UO and DAoC put together for their entire lifetimes. It has 2.5D isometric sprite based graphics and actually *is* considered the best pvp mmo ever. daoc not only isn't considered the best pvp game, but isn't even close to being the best pvp mmo.
I always see this same sort of excuse from people who want their clones - the old game did change X and ruined it for me - the old game's graphics are too ugly. Yet, they think this new clone will solve all those problems.
There is a lot of optimisim about this game and it doesn't even have a foundation yet, except for some brainstorming blog posts. The big question that Jacobs hasn't answered yet (that I can find) is the business plan. How much is the game going to cost to make and how is does he plan on paying for it and generating revenue to fund continued development. Don't bring out the daoc cost $2M to make because this isn't 10+ years ago. Does he really think he can make a game for $2M? Then he needs to show the business plan to make that happen.
Lineage shut down all their NA servers in 2011, and DAoC and UO are still around. Doesn't seem like that relates to the North American Market?
I think the story is always the same because it happens a lot. The NGE for SWG was a totally different game, and I went and played emu pre-nge servers for a bit a few years ago.
You're right though to some degree. there is definetely a "golden era" issue that goes on with games. The games were certainly not perfect, SWG lacked any real PvP besides open world when i played it. I don't want a clone, but rather some kind of biologically related MMO.
I've read that if the KS hits 2 million then 3 million of additional funding gets thrown in and the warchest is at 5 million. One argument put forward is that the exclusion of PvE will free a substantial amount of funds. Still your have a valid point that 5 million is not a lot for an MMO of today.
Lineage shut down all their NA servers in 2011, and DAoC and UO are still around. Doesn't seem like that relates to the North American Market?
I think the story is always the same because it happens a lot.
Yeah but Lineage had a DIRECT SEQUAL, DaoC and UO has not. Nexus, an Asian game that was released BEFORE Lineage is still up and running today. Also, DaoC and UO have how many people playing in Asia? oh wait, I really should not use Asia as that includes Russia which is a totally different market...as well as PACIFIC which is western. We should be saying ORIENTAL...Japan, Korea, China...
An Asian server can be kept up because of AUSTRAILIAN players.
As for this logical fallcy being used, apply it to your side...how many Western games shut down in Asia? yep...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I think what is being lost in the last several posts was the idea of the OP: that removing PVE is not an innovation.
"Friends" lasted 10 years and is still in syndication on multiple channels to this day. What happend to "Joey"?
The Jedi's lose in "The Empire Strikes Back." There were massive seige battles in "The Two Towers."
You don't make good sequels by removing core items from the original i.e. WAR had only 2 factions but 6 realms. WTF were they thinking?!
If the only progression is through RVR, then all skill levels and experience values will have to coexist on one team. After 7 days, you will have first time players, day 2-3 players, and day 7 players. Let's say this game is a /level 50 version of DAoC. The experience factor of knowing your character is going to be huge.
"Oh, everyone that plays will figure it out enventually," is what one reply will be. Well, the lack of respec'ing, lack of practice, and lack of experience in a PVP only game will lead to some bad builds.
"That's ok. It will create more replayability." The only reason for alts in DAoC was to give the player something to do instead of play their "main" in RVR. Why would that be necessary? Because RVR can go dead. Groups can become full and no one is making more. After you spent an hour filling your pug, you got stomped twice and everyone left.
If the game is: log on, find a group, go fight another realm, gain some xp, build my skills, log off. Then it's too late, that game is League of Legends.
"Oh but its not 5v5. Its 100v150v1000 or more. And its not a sandbox. You can go anywhere." You're correct, the teams are unpredictable but the concept is not. And only very rarely did a 3 realm fight happen at once on DAoC. Sometimes you got backdoored during a seige, but typically, it was good strategy for realm A zerg to avoid realm B zerg while attacking realm C. And "you can go anywhere?" Really?! The sandbox may be much larger than your typical MOBA. But the RVR area is still contained with boundaries; it is still an arena. Just because you don't see the walls from where you standing, doesn't mean you aren't in a room.
Do I like PVE? Nope. I hate it. But did I look boot camp either? Hell no. But I know it was necessary in my progression in order to become a Marine.
If you eliminate PVE, you're putting rifles in the hands of children. The last Americans that did that lost the Civil War.
Very suprised I got the last word on this topic. I'm going to guess that most are too concerned about how they will become a career crafter in a game that revolves around PVP. I personally love the idea about some farmville in the middle of the game.
The whole notion of removing PVE and making CRAFTING more intense is poppycock.
Comments
Clearly you never played DAOC. Your "small controlled area" was actually 4 very large zones per realm. In the beginning, you very much needed to scout and roam your frontiers because that was the only way to find out what the enemy was doing. Later they added systems like guard death spam or symbols and flames on the realm map that made scouting less necessary. If your zerg wasn't well organized and led, it would die and accomplish nothing and your keeps and relics would be taken. I'm not sure how you call that PvP for ADD kids. I guess you prefer FFA PvP that requires the very thoughtful tactic of killing somebody 50 levels lower than you while he is PvEing.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Exactly.
I personally do like the spam/minimap notifications though. It's super important that people know where the action is - but not to the level of planetside's "instant action" type of system.
I hope they don't listen to whoever wrote this. Who cares what the name is? People like this is who I hope DON'T play the game. This is not going to be a game for PvE people, it has already been said, and I hope they don't backtrack for numbskulls like whoever wrote this.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Because people have been screaming for a DAOC clone for the past 4 years? And I have yet to see someone beg for a WoW clone?
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Because people have been screaming for a (UO, AC1, SWG, AO) clone for the past __ years?
People is a funny term because it only takes 2 people doing it to be true. BTW, there is a DaoC clone already, its called Warhammer Online.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Clearly you had nothing real to refute so fell back on trying to discredit me...only to actually discredit yourself.
That is what happens when you cant actually think of a way to refute the points being made...which is that DaoC was the FIRST MMO to funnel players into a controlled PvP envoirment by the game makers who felt the need to force reasons to PvP on you. Something games that came after built on.
DaoC was the cause of what the person I replied to was complaining about.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Guess thats why you cant seem to actually refute anything being said Canan...because you have no points to even BE weak. Some people like the one quoted above...could actually formulate a thought, put it into words and add to the conversation...all you can do is whine and cry about someone being "wrong" and provide no evidence to back it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The only thing WAR has in common with DAoC is some of the same developers and keep sieges. Every other aspect of the game is different from combat to gear dependency to progression.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Huh? You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong. And you clearly were wrong here. Did you play DAoC?
I quit DAoC shortly after ToA along with most of my friends. ToA introduced a massive mandatory (if you wanted to remain competetive) PvE grind. Completely ruined the game for me overnight. An epic fail of SWG NGE proportions.
ToA was just unbalanced and a huge time sink. If you could invest that time, then it was (after PvE) fun again.... but no ToA would have been better, for sure. And i am sure, the macro function, also would have worked without ToA.
About the game mechanics... somebody wrote something on "10 year old mechanics", sorry but that does not make sense. Mechanics, in the meaning of rules, can not be "old" they just ARE. Nobody can talk about the technical mechanics already, because they dont exist till now.
This isn't even a good argument. UO and DAoC have low subcription numbers now largely because they are 14-16 years old, and at some point players do get tired of old graphics and the same game. Also factor in that a lot of older games have had disasterous expansions or changes done to them after release that cut subscriptions overnight (NGE for SWG or ToA for DAoC are often sited as such.) At it's peak DAoC had a very strong subscription number relative to that period of MMOs. And how many games are still alive past 10 years?
WoW is 9 years old and at 9.6 million subs, an amazing accomplishment. You can easily say WoW has been the greatest success by subscription numbers, and I guess by the logic you quoted above, it is the best game of MMO history? Something that, from looking at your previous posts, i doubt you would agree with.
It's good to see that the only pepole capable of formulating thoughtful responses are those who agree with your side of an argument.
Huh? You sometimes need to admit when you are wrong. And you clearly were wrong here as I will highlight the above and MAKE IT EVEN BIGGER FOR YOU.
Clearly I mentioned the borderlands, the frontier maps.
See, even when you try so hard to take one tiny thing being spoken about out of the whole, you still cannot defend the game properly...speaks volumns about how bad for gaming fanboys are...I mean,you cant even prove a point when taking a person out of context!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Could you spout any more bullshit.
No need to scout - lolity frikin lol, no wonder your imaginary 400 man guild all quit on the same day you must have got owned hard.
Lineage shut down all their NA servers in 2011, and DAoC and UO are still around. Doesn't seem like that relates to the North American Market?
I think the story is always the same because it happens a lot. The NGE for SWG was a totally different game, and I went and played emu pre-nge servers for a bit a few years ago.
You're right though to some degree. there is definetely a "golden era" issue that goes on with games. The games were certainly not perfect, SWG lacked any real PvP besides open world when i played it. I don't want a clone, but rather some kind of biologically related MMO.
I've read that if the KS hits 2 million then 3 million of additional funding gets thrown in and the warchest is at 5 million. One argument put forward is that the exclusion of PvE will free a substantial amount of funds. Still your have a valid point that 5 million is not a lot for an MMO of today.
Yeah but Lineage had a DIRECT SEQUAL, DaoC and UO has not. Nexus, an Asian game that was released BEFORE Lineage is still up and running today. Also, DaoC and UO have how many people playing in Asia? oh wait, I really should not use Asia as that includes Russia which is a totally different market...as well as PACIFIC which is western. We should be saying ORIENTAL...Japan, Korea, China...
An Asian server can be kept up because of AUSTRAILIAN players.
As for this logical fallcy being used, apply it to your side...how many Western games shut down in Asia? yep...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I think what is being lost in the last several posts was the idea of the OP: that removing PVE is not an innovation.
"Friends" lasted 10 years and is still in syndication on multiple channels to this day. What happend to "Joey"?
The Jedi's lose in "The Empire Strikes Back." There were massive seige battles in "The Two Towers."
You don't make good sequels by removing core items from the original i.e. WAR had only 2 factions but 6 realms. WTF were they thinking?!
If the only progression is through RVR, then all skill levels and experience values will have to coexist on one team. After 7 days, you will have first time players, day 2-3 players, and day 7 players. Let's say this game is a /level 50 version of DAoC. The experience factor of knowing your character is going to be huge.
"Oh, everyone that plays will figure it out enventually," is what one reply will be. Well, the lack of respec'ing, lack of practice, and lack of experience in a PVP only game will lead to some bad builds.
"That's ok. It will create more replayability." The only reason for alts in DAoC was to give the player something to do instead of play their "main" in RVR. Why would that be necessary? Because RVR can go dead. Groups can become full and no one is making more. After you spent an hour filling your pug, you got stomped twice and everyone left.
If the game is: log on, find a group, go fight another realm, gain some xp, build my skills, log off. Then it's too late, that game is League of Legends.
"Oh but its not 5v5. Its 100v150v1000 or more. And its not a sandbox. You can go anywhere." You're correct, the teams are unpredictable but the concept is not. And only very rarely did a 3 realm fight happen at once on DAoC. Sometimes you got backdoored during a seige, but typically, it was good strategy for realm A zerg to avoid realm B zerg while attacking realm C. And "you can go anywhere?" Really?! The sandbox may be much larger than your typical MOBA. But the RVR area is still contained with boundaries; it is still an arena. Just because you don't see the walls from where you standing, doesn't mean you aren't in a room.
Do I like PVE? Nope. I hate it. But did I look boot camp either? Hell no. But I know it was necessary in my progression in order to become a Marine.
If you eliminate PVE, you're putting rifles in the hands of children. The last Americans that did that lost the Civil War.
Very suprised I got the last word on this topic. I'm going to guess that most are too concerned about how they will become a career crafter in a game that revolves around PVP. I personally love the idea about some farmville in the middle of the game.
The whole notion of removing PVE and making CRAFTING more intense is poppycock.
And they won't get one here either. How is CU anything like DAoC other than it uses the word Camelot?
It sounds more like a scheme to gather interest based on the rose-colored memories of old DAoC fans.
^^^^^^^^
Ding Ding Ding!
We have a winner!