@Caliburn101 Thanks for the advice regarding certain commentators here. I think I can handle it though, been through a lot worse stuff on that infamous thread on the SWTOR forums. I like discussing and exchanging views, so sometimes I will engage with very agressive people just to see if it is an issue of miscommunication or willful ignorance.
Back on topic now: I heard someone mention AvA is their big and probably only selling point. Well, imo they can have it and made it fit nicely within TES lore and also work to the strengths of this particular IP. I am still baffled why they didn't do it from the start. It would have been so simple.
As it is right now, from what I understand at least, is that PvE happens outside of Cyrodill and PvP or AvA is focused on Cyrodill only. If that is the case, why did they not make it open borders right from the start with co-op play between all races? Because, you know, co-op questing comes a lot easier to my mind when thinking of TES than war all over the place.
They even have a great setup for a good alliance/faction war in Cyrodill that could have fit very nicely with the Elder Scrolls theme. I was thinking of:
Molag Bal tries to pull Tamriel into Oblivion. There are 3 factions that all think they have the right approach to this threat and regard any approach other than their own as treachery or outright blasphemous, comparable to collaborating with Molag Bal himself.
The Aldmeri Dominion: The ancient and powerful Altmer and their allies, led by the young Queen Ayrenn, possess the knowledge and wisdom of centuries to challenge the daedric forces head on. They know the land, they listen to the voices in the wind and from beneath the earth, and they can hear the land scream in agony by the corrupted chains that pull at its flesh. Removing the Imperials from power and claiming the throne would allow them to coordinate the efforts against Molag Bal even better and ensure the salvation of all Tamriel.
The Daggerfall Covenant: High King Emeric, the charismatic Breton Merchant Lord uses his strong diplomatic ties and the vast trading empire he has established to send out experienced and hardened mercenary bands to obtain ancient relics of power buried in forgotten places or directly wrested from the claws of Molag Bal's servants. Having himself surrounded by Masters of the Arcane Arts he will then use these artifacts to drive the daedric forces out of Tamriel. By claiming the Ruby Throne he could command even more loyal soldiers to do his bidding and help save everyone from Oblivion.
The Ebonheart Pact: From the jagged peaks of Skyrim, land of ice and eternal winter, Jorunn the Skald King calls to arms all who choose to fight instead of hiding in the hope that the daedric threat will pass. This Nord is a man of few words, but he does not need them, for his purpose is clear: he will point his sword towards Cyrodill and his loyal companions will not rest until they have claimed the Ruby Throne and from there, with the united strength of all Tamriel, they will drive the sword even further until it rests deep in the heart of Oblivion.
See, wasn't that hard. Now you have no silly and illogical race lock and people can pick their preferred flavour when it comes to an agenda/philosophy/approach they like.
Yes - another imaginative solution on these forums that didn't take 5 days to think of - never mind 5 years.
You do wonder about the quality of the pot they were smoking - I mean it made the Beatles more creative, not less...
Aldmeri Dominion: If we are in charge then we can sort it out better than the inferior races.
Daggerfall Covenent: Let's throw magic at it till it's solved - like we do everything else.
Ebonheart Pact: Let's hit it till it goes away - like we do everything else.
Talk about 'true to lore'...
I tried to capture this little something some claim does not exist. The "soul" of TES. The core essence and themes of TES. Then I took it and applied it to their PvP mechanisms. This is why I don't understand people who say you can't have both. Yes, you do have to make certain compromises because it is an MMO, but you need to preserve what essentially makes the game what it is and makes it stand out among all the other games.
What were the devs/writers at Zenimax thinking? I would really like to know, because if you give me a bit more time I can write a dozen more settings that use their chosen mechanics but are still true to TES. And I am sure, a lot of other fans of TES can too.
I am really disappointed because this could have been great, even within the restrictions of an MMO. There is a lot I really do like about their game, but their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES. I don't know how much I can still enjoy the game then. We will see, I guess. But right now "Identity Crisis" is indeed the most appropriate term for the issue.
Aldmeri Dominion: If we are in charge then we can sort it out better than the inferior races.
Daggerfall Covenent: Let's throw magic at it till it's solved - like we do everything else.
Ebonheart Pact: Let's hit it till it goes away - like we do everything else.
Talk about 'true to lore'...
I tried to capture this little something some claim does not exist. The "soul" of TES. The core essence and themes of TES. Then I took it and applied it to their PvP mechanisms. This is why I don't understand people who say you can't have both. Yes, you do have to make certain compromises because it is an MMO, but you need to preserve what essentially makes the game what it is and makes it stand out among all the other games.
What were the devs/writers at Zenimax thinking? I would really like to know, because if you give me a bit more time I can write a dozen more settings that use their chosen mechanics but are still true to TES. And I am sure, a lot of other fans of TES can too.
I am really disappointed because this could have been great, even within the restrictions of an MMO. There is a lot I really do like about their game, but their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES. I don't know how much I can still enjoy the game then. We will see, I guess. But right now "Identity Crisis" is indeed the most appropriate term for the issue.
It's as if you think the game's lore doesn't come directly from Bethesda, or that they don't have a direct veto on anything they don't feel fits their IP. This game is falling under a branded IP, and Bethesda has every desire to keep the good name of that brand intact.
Statements like, "their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES", are ridiculous. We haven't seen more than a fraction of a percent of the lore of this game, but already it's beyond saving in your eyes. I just don't get it.
P.S. Your ideas are fine, I'm not dissing on those, just the hubris with which they're presented. Although, a Skald King who is a man of few words is an oxymoron.
Aldmeri Dominion: If we are in charge then we can sort it out better than the inferior races.
Daggerfall Covenent: Let's throw magic at it till it's solved - like we do everything else.
Ebonheart Pact: Let's hit it till it goes away - like we do everything else.
Talk about 'true to lore'...
I tried to capture this little something some claim does not exist. The "soul" of TES. The core essence and themes of TES. Then I took it and applied it to their PvP mechanisms. This is why I don't understand people who say you can't have both. Yes, you do have to make certain compromises because it is an MMO, but you need to preserve what essentially makes the game what it is and makes it stand out among all the other games.
What were the devs/writers at Zenimax thinking? I would really like to know, because if you give me a bit more time I can write a dozen more settings that use their chosen mechanics but are still true to TES. And I am sure, a lot of other fans of TES can too.
I am really disappointed because this could have been great, even within the restrictions of an MMO. There is a lot I really do like about their game, but their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES. I don't know how much I can still enjoy the game then. We will see, I guess. But right now "Identity Crisis" is indeed the most appropriate term for the issue.
It's as if you think the game's lore doesn't come directly from Bethesda, or that they don't have a direct veto on anything they don't feel fits their IP. This game is falling under a branded IP, and Bethesda has every desire to keep the good name of that brand intact.
Statements like, "their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES", are ridiculous. We haven't seen more than a fraction of a percent of the lore of this game, but already it's beyond saving in your eyes. I just don't get it.
P.S. Your ideas are fine, I'm not dissing on those, just the hubris with which they're presented. Although, a Skald King who is a man of few words is an oxymoron.
Would be a funny oxymoron though
Now about the lore part...I did not doubt one moment that it is approved by Bethesda. I just said that I did not understand why they did it. Of course, my vision and what I have come to associate with TES could differ a lot from what the creator's had in mind. Also, I did not make any statements nor claimed that what I said is true for anyone else but me. It was my opinion, my very own personal impression.
"The game has Khajiit and I always play one in the ES games." That is a statement.
Now I don't want to appear as someone who only dislikes the game they made. That is not true at all. I find their artwork and how they made the world look quite beautiful. In fact, I really respect and admire them for crafting such a nice world so people can play and have fun in it.
I don't think their game sucks or anything silly like that. I just don't like their decision about how they set up the PvE and PvP from a lore perspective, or, to be more specific, from a writer's point of view.
It's as if you think the game's lore doesn't come directly from Bethesda, or that they don't have a direct veto on anything they don't feel fits their IP. This game is falling under a branded IP, and Bethesda has every desire to keep the good name of that brand intact.
Statements like, "their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES", are ridiculous. We haven't seen more than a fraction of a percent of the lore of this game, but already it's beyond saving in your eyes. I just don't get it.
P.S. Your ideas are fine, I'm not dissing on those, just the hubris with which they're presented. Although, a Skald King who is a man of few words is an oxymoron.
Would be a funny oxymoron though
Now about the lore part...I did not doubt one moment that it is approved by Bethesda. I just said that I did not understand why they did it. Of course, my vision and what I have come to associate with TES could differ a lot from what the creator's had in mind. Also, I did not make any statements nor claimed that what I said is true for anyone else but me. It was my opinion, my very own personal impression.
"The game has Khajiit and I always play one in the ES games." That is a statement.
Now I don't want to appear as someone who only dislikes the game they made. That is not true at all. I find their artwork and how they made the world look quite beautiful. In fact, I really respect and admire them for crafting such a nice world so people can play and have fun in it.
I don't think their game sucks or anything silly like that. I just don't like their decision about how they set up the PvE and PvP from a lore perspective, or, to be more specific, from a writer's point of view.
I get where you're coming from. If you're a writer then you have a naturally critical eye for discrepencies and failures in storytelling. But, as a writer, wouldn't it bug you if your work was reviewed and found lacking when only a brief summary had been released? I would think that a writer, out of all others, would recognize the value of seeing the finished work before attempting to be critical (even in a constructive fashion).
Maybe I'm wrong, though. I don't write professionally, so this could be normal to the process. If it is, I'll shut up .
It's as if you think the game's lore doesn't come directly from Bethesda, or that they don't have a direct veto on anything they don't feel fits their IP. This game is falling under a branded IP, and Bethesda has every desire to keep the good name of that brand intact.
Statements like, "their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES", are ridiculous. We haven't seen more than a fraction of a percent of the lore of this game, but already it's beyond saving in your eyes. I just don't get it.
P.S. Your ideas are fine, I'm not dissing on those, just the hubris with which they're presented. Although, a Skald King who is a man of few words is an oxymoron.
Would be a funny oxymoron though
Now about the lore part...I did not doubt one moment that it is approved by Bethesda. I just said that I did not understand why they did it. Of course, my vision and what I have come to associate with TES could differ a lot from what the creator's had in mind. Also, I did not make any statements nor claimed that what I said is true for anyone else but me. It was my opinion, my very own personal impression.
"The game has Khajiit and I always play one in the ES games." That is a statement.
Now I don't want to appear as someone who only dislikes the game they made. That is not true at all. I find their artwork and how they made the world look quite beautiful. In fact, I really respect and admire them for crafting such a nice world so people can play and have fun in it.
I don't think their game sucks or anything silly like that. I just don't like their decision about how they set up the PvE and PvP from a lore perspective, or, to be more specific, from a writer's point of view.
I get where you're coming from. If you're a writer then you have a naturally critical eye for discrepencies and failures in storytelling. But, as a writer, wouldn't it bug you if your work was reviewed and found lacking when only a brief summary had been released? I would think that a writer, out of all others, would recognize the value of seeing the finished work before attempting to be critical (even in a constructive fashion).
Maybe I'm wrong, though. I don't write professionally, so this could be normal to the process. If it is, I'll shut up .
You're right, of course. But very few writers would ever reveal anything about a work in progress until it is done.
Obviously MMos are not the work of one individual but rather joint ventures. There are always competing interests between the desire to keep it all under wraps until done, and the PR hype machine trying to generate ever increasing interest.
Incomplete dribs and drabs get revealed and the critics go wild. I've always liked this quote. Demonstrated in these forums on a daily basis:
Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting. Emmet Fox
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So far my criticism was indeed solely based on what I could find on their website. I haven't seen any of the ingame lore yet, so I have to stick to what is revealed to us. You could argue though that their official website should feature some of the strongest writing because on that website is where you try to generate interest. So far the only thing I am seeing are lots of buzz words focusing a lot on the war and pvp aspect, and that is where I wonder why they haven't given any more detail on why the alliances have grouped up like they did, even despite very obvious hostility between certain races.
I am not criticising the quality of their writing btw, just the lack of information or explanation regarding their Alliance background lore. And I still wonder why they chose to come up with something like this when I and others have already shown that it indeed is possible to employ their AvA setting and still making it feel like TES.
Of course, I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt. I will beta test if I can, and I will trial play the game before I buy it to see if my concerns are maybe invalid. If it turns out that their writers can really explain the changes they introduced to the lore in a satisfying way I will be very very happy, because, like all of you too, I have been waiting a long time for a TES MMO.
If it can't convince me I ll just wait my time for the next SP TES game and watch this one develop.
PS: About that criticism about criticism part... I agree, some are doing it to boost their ego, and you have lots of ego tripping people on an internet forum. I am here because I like exchanging views with other people. Also, on the slim chance that a developer from the game may read this forum, I think it can't hurt to voice my concerns and let them know if I am disappointed or happy with the decisions they made for the game.
And how many people participating in this close-ended poll have actually played the unreleased MMO ESO?
So someone has to actually play a game to form an opinion of it? Then whats the point of Devs releasing info about a game if no one is allowed to form an opinion unless they actually play it?
What? Someone cant form an opinion of the upcoming Star Trek movie unless they see the whole thing beyond trailers?
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
And how many people participating in this close-ended poll have actually played the unreleased MMO ESO?
So someone has to actually play a game to form an opinion of it? Then whats the point of Devs releasing info about a game if no one is allowed to form an opinion unless they actually play it?
What? Someone cant form an opinion of the upcoming Star Trek movie unless they see the whole thing beyond trailers?
Uh...yeah. I would like people to play the game and watch the movie before they form an opinion on them. Remember that old saying, don't judge a book by its cover?
Let me break it down for you:
Back in the day, we use to get excited about MMOs being released. Not TOO excited, but excited nonethless. Then WoW came out and from there on, every next triple A MMO was either going to be the WoW killer (excitement level over 9000 and overhyped to holy hell) or regarded as a failure even before it came out the door (like people are doing with TESO).
When an MMO comes out, it should be played and enjoyed on its own merits alone. If you are having fun, then have fun! Don't worry about what other game also had that system in place and blah blah blah.
And how many people participating in this close-ended poll have actually played the unreleased MMO ESO?
So someone has to actually play a game to form an opinion of it? Then whats the point of Devs releasing info about a game if no one is allowed to form an opinion unless they actually play it?
What? Someone cant form an opinion of the upcoming Star Trek movie unless they see the whole thing beyond trailers?
Uh...yeah. I would like people to play the game and watch the movie before they form an opinion on them. Remember that old saying, don't judge a book by its cover?
Let me break it down for you:
Back in the day, we use to get excited about MMOs being released. Not TOO excited, but excited nonethless. Then WoW came out and from there on, every next triple A MMO was either going to be the WoW killer (excitement level over 9000 and overhyped to holy hell) or regarded as a failure even before it came out the door (like people are doing with TESO).
When an MMO comes out, it should be played and enjoyed on its own merits alone. If you are having fun, then have fun! Don't worry about what other game also had that system in place and blah blah blah.
Yeah I miss the old days. Hard to get surprised anymore the hype train being how it is.
I still remmeber picking up Dune, the first RTS game. I had no idea what it was going to be like...what a great surprise. That would be impossible today, we'd know everything about it a year ahead of time.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
After reading and watching new videos and interviews about TESO I have found a lot of things I like. I also think that they really want to make this feel like ES. This is why I don't understand why they decided to go against one of the best features of the franchise: freedom of choice. I think I have identified my greatest issue with their game, and that is their decision to race lock you to factions. All the other issues kind of arise from that core design, so let's talk about race locks.
They try to recreate the ES experience as best as they can. Once again you start as a prisoner, this time in Coldharbour where at the end of the intro/tutorial you will have barely escaped with your life, in good ES tradition. Now you all remember that during the tutorial phase the SP games always presented you with lots of choices concerning your physical appearance, race, skills, etc. While most of this is gone because you have a char creation before that (at least that's what I assume), this is probably one of the compromises of this being an MMO, and I can live with that.
So at the end of the tutorial you were dropped into the world and would then forge your own destiny. You were free to travel wherever you wanted, side with whoever you wanted and be whoever you wanted to be. I know they have starter islands and small zones with a somewhat guided experience through the levels, but again, this is due to MMO mechanics and I am realist enough to see why it can't be a 1:1 translation from SP to MMO.
What I fail to see though is why they have to force you to make the choice of race a choice of faction at the same time. Just because I play an Argonian I have to be allied with the Dunmer and Nords, and also like it? Even if I don't like it, I still have no choice when it comes to my options of what I can do in the world of Tamriel. I could comletely ignore the war/pvp part and play as a traveling merchant/mercenary, but that would not change the fact that six other races would be my enemy. So I will be stuck with 2 races I dont care about or maybe even outright loathe, while the rest of the world hates me anyway by default? How is that Elder Scrolls?
Again, it would have been so easy to remake this in the spirit of the IP which was -among other things- always about choice. Make the factions not a racial thing but rather a political one, a conflict of interests or visions. While in Coldharbour you could then decide in which of the 3 currently available starting zones you would like your adventure to start.
For those not wanting to wait for the PvP action they could place a quest NPC near the point where you start off who then transports you to either Cyrodill or a special instance where you make the choice who you want to ally with. This would have a lot of advantages, because you would have time to learn more about the faction of your choice by questing/playing the pve zones. A well informed choice made by YOU, not by the game.
What we have right now is like picking Nord at the start of Skyrim and then during the escape sequence having Ralof butcher Hadvar, smiling at you and saying: "Welcome to the Stormcloaks!"
Or picking Imperial, having the same scene reversed and Ralof saying: "Welcome my Imperial brother, I am sure you didnt mind all the torturing and the fact the Imperials wanted to kill you despite you being innocent. You just love us Imps, don't you, because, well, you are an Imperial!! Welcome to the choir."
Ahem...yeah. Maybe it is just me, but locking the races to a faction goes against what I have come to love about TES. I know it is just one point, one issue, but for me it is so very essential to the ES setting that I cannot call it ES.
Ahem...yeah. Maybe it is just me, but locking the races to a faction goes against what I have come to love about TES. I know it is just one point, one issue, but for me it is so very essential to the ES setting that I cannot call it ES.
I could've sworn I read that the devs said NPCs do not react to your race (as much as in Skyrim to be true to context). If this is true with factioned quests verbage and VOs, then they can unlock factions at a later date. I'm hoping that they already have everything in place, they are just waiting for the DAoC folks to buy the game and then change it after release.
Ahem...yeah. Maybe it is just me, but locking the races to a faction goes against what I have come to love about TES. I know it is just one point, one issue, but for me it is so very essential to the ES setting that I cannot call it ES.
I could've sworn I read that the devs said NPCs do not react to your race (as much as in Skyrim to be true to context). If this is true with factioned quests verbage and VOs, then they can unlock factions at a later date. I'm hoping that they already have everything in place, they are just waiting for the DAoC folks to buy the game and then change it after release.
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
The DAoC haters need to get over it (((eye roll))) Its the model they picked and it fits just fine. The compromise to go anywhere was done in a way to not compromise the AvA wars so it keeps the DAoC model intact. Items are very much like DAoC where gear did not rule the game. Crafting matters is also very much DAoC. This really is the devs goals in making this game. Its what they know. At the same time people at PAX said it felt very much like TES. You dont like the model, Ooo well its what we got.
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game. More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit. This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.
If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself. What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated? How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game. More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit. This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.
If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself. What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated? How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?
As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game. More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit. This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.
If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself. What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated? How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?
As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.
I wouldn't mind a system that made it rare but possible.
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game. More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit. This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.
If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself. What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated? How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?
As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story.Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.
That's the funny thing though. For you it is immersion breaking if you see someone of a certainr ace kill other members of that race. For me it is immersion breaking if I can't see that or do it myself. Because, last time I checked, Elder Scrolls was about choice and freedom to do exactly those things you just mentioned.
if I am a dark elf, who says I have to like my own kin and never draw a weapon against them? That's like saying in Skyrim, when you pick a Nord, you should never ever kill any other Nord. Again, this might work in any other setting that has a good explanation for this, but it really is not Elder Scrolls.
Now it seems that NPCs won't care for your choice of race anyway and just give out quests to whoever walks by. Great, I say, then there should not be any issue with having the PvE world open fromt he start and featuring 3 starting zones to choose from. Let the 3 Alliances/Factions be a political thing that players can choose who they would like to follow. Won't change anything about their AvA concept.
With the way they set up their mega server and balance campaigns it does not matter if one race is hugely more popular than another one. The same would be true if you could freely choose one of the 3 alliances. Nothing would change about their PvP mechanics. The only thing that changes is that the game would feel a lot more like ES if they get rid of the silly race lock and have the PvE world open to everyone.
You were free to travel wherever you wanted, side with whoever you wanted and be whoever you wanted to be. I know they have starter islands and small zones with a somewhat guided experience through the levels, but again, this is due to MMO mechanics and I am realist enough to see why it can't be a 1:1 translation from SP to MMO.
What I fail to see though is why they have to force you to make the choice of race a choice of faction at the same time. Just because I play an Argonian I have to be allied with the Dunmer and Nords, and also like it? Even if I don't like it, I still have no choice when it comes to my options of what I can do in the world of Tamriel. I could comletely ignore the war/pvp part and play as a traveling merchant/mercenary, but that would not change the fact that six other races would be my enemy. So I will be stuck with 2 races I dont care about or maybe even outright loathe, while the rest of the world hates me anyway by default? How is that Elder Scrolls?
Again, it would have been so easy to remake this in the spirit of the IP which was -among other things- always about choice. Make the factions not a racial thing but rather a political one, a conflict of interests or visions. While in Coldharbour you could then decide in which of the 3 currently available starting zones you would like your adventure to start.
What we have right now is like picking Nord at the start of Skyrim and then during the escape sequence having Ralof butcher Hadvar, smiling at you and saying: "Welcome to the Stormcloaks!"
Or picking Imperial, having the same scene reversed and Ralof saying: "Welcome my Imperial brother, I am sure you didnt mind all the torturing and the fact the Imperials wanted to kill you despite you being innocent. You just love us Imps, don't you, because, well, you are an Imperial!! Welcome to the choir."
Ahem...yeah. Maybe it is just me, but locking the races to a faction goes against what I have come to love about TES. I know it is just one point, one issue, but for me it is so very essential to the ES setting that I cannot call it ES.
Really i wonder if any of you have ever played an elder scrolls because you simply seem not, you take the things the way you want, in any elder scrolls you are allways putted in a faction you cant change where you can simply deny of that part of the game but you can never interact in other way with the opposite faction.
In skyrim you cant join the thalmor, you cant join alduin, in oblivion you cant join daedra... but ooh in this game you can join the opposite faction by changing your character, what this game has is a little of coherency you cant join the stormcloak and the empire at the same time, you cant even change your choice, and of course you cant join alduin or thalmor. So the point here is the race/faction restrictions, there the devs have 2 options they can just allow 9 races or even 10 in the same faction and have 10 vs 10 vs 10 races in pvp, there you'll have an aldmeri dominion army composed by 2 nords, 2 orcs, 2 dunmer, 2 bosmer, 1 aldmer, 1 khajit (thats is elder scrolls?) How many thalmor you see werent aldmer in skyrim? of course a lot cause the aldmer are miles away from being racists XD. Even in skyrim being nord they treat you as a foreign (a asshole bug i guess, even bethesda great devs). And you pretend to transport that to an strict racial war where being attack by other races and dont have racism? XDDD man your points are very funny. Just study history.
So i guess the point everyone can join everyone is clearly a stupid issue not even present in other tes simply a mitification you transport here to criticize a reality, everyone cant join visit everyplace. But thats not true in fact you can, they have already said that, just in your faction pov, so the point can be you cant relate with other races beside with a sword between you, there i challenge you to give devs a solution to without mixing the armies and the races, allowing pvp, races cant fight eachother, the only solution is to place semigod guards killing you each time, before you with your daedra armor hit that little mage lvl1 with his apprentice ropes. Or simply forbide mechanically the option to attack at that zones, that can be. But maybe would even bother you in a greater way. Anyway what to do then? Trade with alduin and then return to the greybeards? Fight alongside with empire and then return with stormcloack, not possible in any tes game but you want to do it in this, then i wonder who is the one wanting an mmo themepark and who wanting a real tes with good and evil main story faction you cant change.
What is your problem guys, this game have the same but improved combat system, but omg it has a hotkey bar, in other tes you only have... a hot key whell or a hot key favourite list with shouts, spells, potions weapons... what a daring from devs to use a bar in this to approach mmo... or simply a non-pause gameplay style... they have improved the combat with finesse, better ia, sinergies... (is not in other ES or made by bethesda so i am not interested) XDD
They have made a crafting system worthy of an elder scrolls
They have made a quest style with the same choices and objectives in any ES, oh but i have read all in elder scrolls was epic in a hero perspective just as to decide the love of a girl in mara quest or collect plants for an alchemist in riften. But now all ES is epic, you have event read more than 2 quests over the internet but TESO quest sucks XDDD you are so funny.
They have made a progression system very similar to any ES but OMG they have classes restrictions.... Cough oblivion cough... It dont have destruction or conjuration trees it only has sorcerer skills trees called storm calling or daedra summoning XDDDDD, of course there werent class restrictions in the past...... Cough oblivion cough...
They have made a world inspired in other games, they have a lore master but the story of a game you havent even play is not worthy of an elder scrolls, of course any quest of skyrim transports you to an ancient knowledge of past ages, and any structure has is own legend... XDDD
They have made a open world where you can go anywhere, but wait a moment you are supposed to go to a specific zone, because of course in any ES you can go kill alduin in first and then return to salute a bandit in pelt armor.
"Different locations in Skyrim have different inherent difficulties. In other words, some dungeons are designed to be too difficult for low-level characters to enter. More challenging dungeons are generally located at higher elevations, meaning that early in the game, players may want to avoid mountainous regions. However, more difficult dungeons contain better rewards. In addition, some high-quality items can be randomly found even early in the game."
So your only problem here is if in a TES VI bethesda decide made summerset isles and let you choice between some races for thalmor and others for the empire with diferents game you will clap, and say is the best game ever, if zenimax make an mmo where the thalmor and empire are both roled by players and you cant join other faction you have this thread.... Purists, your purity is so funny, (even some people can call it fanboyism), purist who criticize this game playing in 3, 2, 1...
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game. More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit. This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.
If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself. What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated? How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?
As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story.Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.
That's the funny thing though. For you it is immersion breaking if you see someone of a certainr ace kill other members of that race. For me it is immersion breaking if I can't see that or do it myself. Because, last time I checked, Elder Scrolls was about choice and freedom to do exactly those things you just mentioned.
if I am a dark elf, who says I have to like my own kin and never draw a weapon against them? That's like saying in Skyrim, when you pick a Nord, you should never ever kill any other Nord. Again, this might work in any other setting that has a good explanation for this, but it really is not Elder Scrolls.
Now it seems that NPCs won't care for your choice of race anyway and just give out quests to whoever walks by. Great, I say, then there should not be any issue with having the PvE world open fromt he start and featuring 3 starting zones to choose from. Let the 3 Alliances/Factions be a political thing that players can choose who they would like to follow. Won't change anything about their AvA concept.
With the way they set up their mega server and balance campaigns it does not matter if one race is hugely more popular than another one. The same would be true if you could freely choose one of the 3 alliances. Nothing would change about their PvP mechanics. The only thing that changes is that the game would feel a lot more like ES if they get rid of the silly race lock and have the PvE world open to everyone.
So in your paranoia you justify kill greybeards and then get help from them to kill alduin just because you were bored, and that not break your inmersion, pass me that weed is very good man.
Comments
Yes - another imaginative solution on these forums that didn't take 5 days to think of - never mind 5 years.
You do wonder about the quality of the pot they were smoking - I mean it made the Beatles more creative, not less...
Actually - I love this;
Aldmeri Dominion: If we are in charge then we can sort it out better than the inferior races - our usual approach.
Daggerfall Covenent: Let's throw magic at it till it's solved - like we do everything else.
Ebonheart Pact: Let's hit it till it goes away - like we do everything else.
Talk about 'true to lore'...
I tried to capture this little something some claim does not exist. The "soul" of TES. The core essence and themes of TES. Then I took it and applied it to their PvP mechanisms. This is why I don't understand people who say you can't have both. Yes, you do have to make certain compromises because it is an MMO, but you need to preserve what essentially makes the game what it is and makes it stand out among all the other games.
What were the devs/writers at Zenimax thinking? I would really like to know, because if you give me a bit more time I can write a dozen more settings that use their chosen mechanics but are still true to TES. And I am sure, a lot of other fans of TES can too.
I am really disappointed because this could have been great, even within the restrictions of an MMO. There is a lot I really do like about their game, but their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES. I don't know how much I can still enjoy the game then. We will see, I guess. But right now "Identity Crisis" is indeed the most appropriate term for the issue.
It's as if you think the game's lore doesn't come directly from Bethesda, or that they don't have a direct veto on anything they don't feel fits their IP. This game is falling under a branded IP, and Bethesda has every desire to keep the good name of that brand intact.
Statements like, "their "lore interpretation" really is too far removed from anything I associate with TES", are ridiculous. We haven't seen more than a fraction of a percent of the lore of this game, but already it's beyond saving in your eyes. I just don't get it.
P.S. Your ideas are fine, I'm not dissing on those, just the hubris with which they're presented. Although, a Skald King who is a man of few words is an oxymoron.
Would be a funny oxymoron though
Now about the lore part...I did not doubt one moment that it is approved by Bethesda. I just said that I did not understand why they did it. Of course, my vision and what I have come to associate with TES could differ a lot from what the creator's had in mind. Also, I did not make any statements nor claimed that what I said is true for anyone else but me. It was my opinion, my very own personal impression.
"The game has Khajiit and I always play one in the ES games." That is a statement.
Now I don't want to appear as someone who only dislikes the game they made. That is not true at all. I find their artwork and how they made the world look quite beautiful. In fact, I really respect and admire them for crafting such a nice world so people can play and have fun in it.
I don't think their game sucks or anything silly like that. I just don't like their decision about how they set up the PvE and PvP from a lore perspective, or, to be more specific, from a writer's point of view.
I get where you're coming from. If you're a writer then you have a naturally critical eye for discrepencies and failures in storytelling. But, as a writer, wouldn't it bug you if your work was reviewed and found lacking when only a brief summary had been released? I would think that a writer, out of all others, would recognize the value of seeing the finished work before attempting to be critical (even in a constructive fashion).
Maybe I'm wrong, though. I don't write professionally, so this could be normal to the process. If it is, I'll shut up
.
You're right, of course. But very few writers would ever reveal anything about a work in progress until it is done.
Obviously MMos are not the work of one individual but rather joint ventures. There are always competing interests between the desire to keep it all under wraps until done, and the PR hype machine trying to generate ever increasing interest.
Incomplete dribs and drabs get revealed and the critics go wild. I've always liked this quote. Demonstrated in these forums on a daily basis:
Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.
Emmet Fox
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So far my criticism was indeed solely based on what I could find on their website. I haven't seen any of the ingame lore yet, so I have to stick to what is revealed to us. You could argue though that their official website should feature some of the strongest writing because on that website is where you try to generate interest. So far the only thing I am seeing are lots of buzz words focusing a lot on the war and pvp aspect, and that is where I wonder why they haven't given any more detail on why the alliances have grouped up like they did, even despite very obvious hostility between certain races.
I am not criticising the quality of their writing btw, just the lack of information or explanation regarding their Alliance background lore. And I still wonder why they chose to come up with something like this when I and others have already shown that it indeed is possible to employ their AvA setting and still making it feel like TES.
Of course, I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt. I will beta test if I can, and I will trial play the game before I buy it to see if my concerns are maybe invalid. If it turns out that their writers can really explain the changes they introduced to the lore in a satisfying way I will be very very happy, because, like all of you too, I have been waiting a long time for a TES MMO.
If it can't convince me I ll just wait my time for the next SP TES game and watch this one develop.
PS: About that criticism about criticism part... I agree, some are doing it to boost their ego, and you have lots of ego tripping people on an internet forum. I am here because I like exchanging views with other people. Also, on the slim chance that a developer from the game may read this forum, I think it can't hurt to voice my concerns and let them know if I am disappointed or happy with the decisions they made for the game.
And how many people participating in this close-ended poll have actually played the unreleased MMO ESO?
So someone has to actually play a game to form an opinion of it? Then whats the point of Devs releasing info about a game if no one is allowed to form an opinion unless they actually play it?
What? Someone cant form an opinion of the upcoming Star Trek movie unless they see the whole thing beyond trailers?
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
Uh...yeah. I would like people to play the game and watch the movie before they form an opinion on them. Remember that old saying, don't judge a book by its cover?
Let me break it down for you:
Back in the day, we use to get excited about MMOs being released. Not TOO excited, but excited nonethless. Then WoW came out and from there on, every next triple A MMO was either going to be the WoW killer (excitement level over 9000 and overhyped to holy hell) or regarded as a failure even before it came out the door (like people are doing with TESO).
When an MMO comes out, it should be played and enjoyed on its own merits alone. If you are having fun, then have fun! Don't worry about what other game also had that system in place and blah blah blah.
Yeah I miss the old days. Hard to get surprised anymore the hype train being how it is.
I still remmeber picking up Dune, the first RTS game. I had no idea what it was going to be like...what a great surprise. That would be impossible today, we'd know everything about it a year ahead of time.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All the ones capable of reading what Zenimax have been saying about the game features...
After reading and watching new videos and interviews about TESO I have found a lot of things I like. I also think that they really want to make this feel like ES. This is why I don't understand why they decided to go against one of the best features of the franchise: freedom of choice. I think I have identified my greatest issue with their game, and that is their decision to race lock you to factions. All the other issues kind of arise from that core design, so let's talk about race locks.
They try to recreate the ES experience as best as they can. Once again you start as a prisoner, this time in Coldharbour where at the end of the intro/tutorial you will have barely escaped with your life, in good ES tradition. Now you all remember that during the tutorial phase the SP games always presented you with lots of choices concerning your physical appearance, race, skills, etc. While most of this is gone because you have a char creation before that (at least that's what I assume), this is probably one of the compromises of this being an MMO, and I can live with that.
So at the end of the tutorial you were dropped into the world and would then forge your own destiny. You were free to travel wherever you wanted, side with whoever you wanted and be whoever you wanted to be. I know they have starter islands and small zones with a somewhat guided experience through the levels, but again, this is due to MMO mechanics and I am realist enough to see why it can't be a 1:1 translation from SP to MMO.
What I fail to see though is why they have to force you to make the choice of race a choice of faction at the same time. Just because I play an Argonian I have to be allied with the Dunmer and Nords, and also like it? Even if I don't like it, I still have no choice when it comes to my options of what I can do in the world of Tamriel. I could comletely ignore the war/pvp part and play as a traveling merchant/mercenary, but that would not change the fact that six other races would be my enemy. So I will be stuck with 2 races I dont care about or maybe even outright loathe, while the rest of the world hates me anyway by default? How is that Elder Scrolls?
Again, it would have been so easy to remake this in the spirit of the IP which was -among other things- always about choice. Make the factions not a racial thing but rather a political one, a conflict of interests or visions. While in Coldharbour you could then decide in which of the 3 currently available starting zones you would like your adventure to start.
For those not wanting to wait for the PvP action they could place a quest NPC near the point where you start off who then transports you to either Cyrodill or a special instance where you make the choice who you want to ally with. This would have a lot of advantages, because you would have time to learn more about the faction of your choice by questing/playing the pve zones. A well informed choice made by YOU, not by the game.
What we have right now is like picking Nord at the start of Skyrim and then during the escape sequence having Ralof butcher Hadvar, smiling at you and saying: "Welcome to the Stormcloaks!"
Or picking Imperial, having the same scene reversed and Ralof saying: "Welcome my Imperial brother, I am sure you didnt mind all the torturing and the fact the Imperials wanted to kill you despite you being innocent. You just love us Imps, don't you, because, well, you are an Imperial!! Welcome to the choir."
Ahem...yeah. Maybe it is just me, but locking the races to a faction goes against what I have come to love about TES. I know it is just one point, one issue, but for me it is so very essential to the ES setting that I cannot call it ES.
I could've sworn I read that the devs said NPCs do not react to your race (as much as in Skyrim to be true to context). If this is true with factioned quests verbage and VOs, then they can unlock factions at a later date. I'm hoping that they already have everything in place, they are just waiting for the DAoC folks to buy the game and then change it after release.
You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?
I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game. More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit. This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.
If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself. What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated? How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?
As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.
I wouldn't mind a system that made it rare but possible.
That's the funny thing though. For you it is immersion breaking if you see someone of a certainr ace kill other members of that race. For me it is immersion breaking if I can't see that or do it myself. Because, last time I checked, Elder Scrolls was about choice and freedom to do exactly those things you just mentioned.
if I am a dark elf, who says I have to like my own kin and never draw a weapon against them? That's like saying in Skyrim, when you pick a Nord, you should never ever kill any other Nord. Again, this might work in any other setting that has a good explanation for this, but it really is not Elder Scrolls.
Now it seems that NPCs won't care for your choice of race anyway and just give out quests to whoever walks by. Great, I say, then there should not be any issue with having the PvE world open fromt he start and featuring 3 starting zones to choose from. Let the 3 Alliances/Factions be a political thing that players can choose who they would like to follow. Won't change anything about their AvA concept.
With the way they set up their mega server and balance campaigns it does not matter if one race is hugely more popular than another one. The same would be true if you could freely choose one of the 3 alliances. Nothing would change about their PvP mechanics. The only thing that changes is that the game would feel a lot more like ES if they get rid of the silly race lock and have the PvE world open to everyone.
Really i wonder if any of you have ever played an elder scrolls because you simply seem not, you take the things the way you want, in any elder scrolls you are allways putted in a faction you cant change where you can simply deny of that part of the game but you can never interact in other way with the opposite faction.
In skyrim you cant join the thalmor, you cant join alduin, in oblivion you cant join daedra... but ooh in this game you can join the opposite faction by changing your character, what this game has is a little of coherency you cant join the stormcloak and the empire at the same time, you cant even change your choice, and of course you cant join alduin or thalmor. So the point here is the race/faction restrictions, there the devs have 2 options they can just allow 9 races or even 10 in the same faction and have 10 vs 10 vs 10 races in pvp, there you'll have an aldmeri dominion army composed by 2 nords, 2 orcs, 2 dunmer, 2 bosmer, 1 aldmer, 1 khajit (thats is elder scrolls?) How many thalmor you see werent aldmer in skyrim? of course a lot cause the aldmer are miles away from being racists XD. Even in skyrim being nord they treat you as a foreign (a asshole bug i guess, even bethesda great devs). And you pretend to transport that to an strict racial war where being attack by other races and dont have racism? XDDD man your points are very funny. Just study history.
So i guess the point everyone can join everyone is clearly a stupid issue not even present in other tes simply a mitification you transport here to criticize a reality, everyone cant join visit everyplace. But thats not true in fact you can, they have already said that, just in your faction pov, so the point can be you cant relate with other races beside with a sword between you, there i challenge you to give devs a solution to without mixing the armies and the races, allowing pvp, races cant fight eachother, the only solution is to place semigod guards killing you each time, before you with your daedra armor hit that little mage lvl1 with his apprentice ropes. Or simply forbide mechanically the option to attack at that zones, that can be. But maybe would even bother you in a greater way. Anyway what to do then? Trade with alduin and then return to the greybeards? Fight alongside with empire and then return with stormcloack, not possible in any tes game but you want to do it in this, then i wonder who is the one wanting an mmo themepark and who wanting a real tes with good and evil main story faction you cant change.
What is your problem guys, this game have the same but improved combat system, but omg it has a hotkey bar, in other tes you only have... a hot key whell or a hot key favourite list with shouts, spells, potions weapons... what a daring from devs to use a bar in this to approach mmo... or simply a non-pause gameplay style... they have improved the combat with finesse, better ia, sinergies... (is not in other ES or made by bethesda so i am not interested) XDD
They have made a crafting system worthy of an elder scrolls
They have made a quest style with the same choices and objectives in any ES, oh but i have read all in elder scrolls was epic in a hero perspective just as to decide the love of a girl in mara quest or collect plants for an alchemist in riften. But now all ES is epic, you have event read more than 2 quests over the internet but TESO quest sucks XDDD you are so funny.
They have made a progression system very similar to any ES but OMG they have classes restrictions.... Cough oblivion cough... It dont have destruction or conjuration trees it only has sorcerer skills trees called storm calling or daedra summoning XDDDDD, of course there werent class restrictions in the past...... Cough oblivion cough...
They have made a world inspired in other games, they have a lore master but the story of a game you havent even play is not worthy of an elder scrolls, of course any quest of skyrim transports you to an ancient knowledge of past ages, and any structure has is own legend... XDDD
They have made a open world where you can go anywhere, but wait a moment you are supposed to go to a specific zone, because of course in any ES you can go kill alduin in first and then return to salute a bandit in pelt armor.
"Different locations in Skyrim have different inherent difficulties. In other words, some dungeons are designed to be too difficult for low-level characters to enter. More challenging dungeons are generally located at higher elevations, meaning that early in the game, players may want to avoid mountainous regions. However, more difficult dungeons contain better rewards. In addition, some high-quality items can be randomly found even early in the game."
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveling
So your only problem here is if in a TES VI bethesda decide made summerset isles and let you choice between some races for thalmor and others for the empire with diferents game you will clap, and say is the best game ever, if zenimax make an mmo where the thalmor and empire are both roled by players and you cant join other faction you have this thread.... Purists, your purity is so funny, (even some people can call it fanboyism), purist who criticize this game playing in 3, 2, 1...
Sorry for my english i am spanish
So in your paranoia you justify kill greybeards and then get help from them to kill alduin just because you were bored, and that not break your inmersion, pass me that weed is very good man.