Originally posted by Sho0terMcgavin I've traditionally played alot of Tab Target games. But, I feel like that time has passed and some good action mmos like Tera have come out, and some even better ones on the horizon (ESO, Wildstar, Blade & Soul etc). Just my opinion of course. To be honest, I didn't expect as many people choosing tab target over action. It will definitely give me a better perspective from now on.
.2%? That's not many more people. Besides, WoW is still the best selling MMO out there last time I checked and it's got tab targetting.
40.xx% of people picked it over action ( not just the difference between the two ) Considering how new and how few mmos out there use action combat I'm surprised the numbers are even close. People tend to not like change and often want just reskinned games because they're familliar and easy to learn that way.
If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.
Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.
100% agree with this statement. I enjoy tab targeting in my MMORPG. Any MMORPG without tab targeting, I don't consider playing it.
The best MMORPG would give the option for players to use either of these options. Just as a player can change graphics settings, a player should be able to select whether or not to use tab targeting or a targeting reticle. If that were in an MMORPG, how many players would go for tab targeting?
Also fps combat is no more susceptible to hacks than tab Target.
Wall / teleport / invulnerable / speed / radar hacks happen with both systems. Tab Target games still do a bunch of stuff client side.
The only difference is fps has aim bots. Tab Target has gcd hacks (either miss gcd or queue abilities to all fire on same gcd) the latter is rife in wow & war.
I voted tab targeting. Action combat should be left to non mmorpgs. Action combat is for immersion and mmorpgs are not immersive and shouldnt be made to be such. They are mmorpgs, its about community, socializing, teamwork and good fun. When you try to make it an immersive environment, the human perspective is going to break that often during gameplay. The tab targetting gives you to much feedback about your team and enemies to ignore in what is supposed to be a community driven and social gaming experience.
If I wanted action combat I would play a console game with a controller where I could mash buttons.
Tab targeting allows for tactics like crowd control and splitting techniques that simply aren't possible during action zergfests.
100% agree with this statement. I enjoy tab targeting in my MMORPG. Any MMORPG without tab targeting, I don't consider playing it.
The best MMORPG would give the option for players to use either of these options. Just as a player can change graphics settings, a player should be able to select whether or not to use tab targeting or a targeting reticle. If that were in an MMORPG, how many players would go for tab targeting?
The notion that TAB targetting somehow requires more tactics is not only blatantly false, but nothing more than an excuse.
Realistically the targetting method has absolutely nothing to do w/ how tactical a game is. For example some of the most tactical games are neither tab target or action combat (they're click & drag). Furthermore, you can look at certain classes in various action games that require you to constantly switch targets and be smart about skill uses (for example, Control Wizard in NWO).
People that tend to view action combat as a 'zerg fest' seem to both have trouble with the concept of what a zerg actualy means, as well as issues understanding how action combat actually works. It does seem a lot more chaotic at first, but as with any mechanic, once you actually understand it, you can bring order to the chaos. After all, even in the most dumbed down TAB target games (i.e. WoW) they can be chaotic as hell if you don't understand how threat works, or how to handle adds properly.
Fast paced tab-target games like WoW are identical to Action Combat games.
In fact, a lot of "action combat" games are slower than some of the faster "tab target" games.
It truly doesn't matter to me. I am extremely skilled in any type of gameplay or style, and I excel or am defeated the same way no matter how it is.
Obviously theres a big difference between FPS games and guns where you die from range in seconds, and any kind of RPG-like or action adventure game. But amongst themselves, MMO's are nearly identical to me no matter what fancy feature they claim to possess.
With the exception of automatic weapons like seen in modern FPS shooters, you can only do an action every [x] or so minutes anyway. Aiming is not hard, and they purposefully make it easy for even unskilled users to successfully hit the enemy character with their abilities in the majority of games. MMORPG's suffer from too much lag to be able to pull off extremely fast moving characters with RPG-like abilities. MMOFPS games barely pull off their fast moving characters and high RPM weapons, and that isn't without a ridiculous amount of cheaters.
I have played MMOs that have had one or the other and they both have their strengths. If an MMO included one or the other, it would depend on how well the implemented the system, not which system they implemented.
I voted "I don't mind". I think that was the right response.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Some mmos are sandbox, some are themepark, some are a little of both.
Some mmos are fantasy, some are scifi,some are a little of both. (steampunk, magitech)
Some mmos are level based, some are skill based, some are a little of both (TSW?)
Some mmos are crafting/economy heavy, some have almost no crafting, most balance these two.
Some mmos are heavy level grinder, some are heavy token grinders, some are heavy rep grinders.
Some mmos are completely open world, some are seamless but zoned and some are highly instanced.
Some mmos are more realistic graphically and some are more more cartoonish graphically.
Now we also have mmos that have action combat and others that have, for lack of a good term, more traditional combat. and there are all kinds of variation in between.
These are all choices, preferences, nothing more. Find a game that fits as many of your preferences as you can and then play it. And quicherbitchin.
If it's an MMO that I'm going to play for more than 2 hours a day tab-targetting for sure. Action combat is sort of annoying after a while (at least to me).
Originally posted by KingofHartz I voted tab targeting. Action combat should be left to non mmorpgs. Action combat is for immersion and mmorpgs are not immersive and shouldnt be made to be such. They are mmorpgs, its about community, socializing, teamwork and good fun. When you try to make it an immersive environment, the human perspective is going to break that often during gameplay. The tab targetting gives you to much feedback about your team and enemies to ignore in what is supposed to be a community driven and social gaming experience.
Very good comment, I like your thoughts.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I enjoy both but like action better. I mean nothing better then blocking in real time it just feels good. Leaving damage taken up to the math in your gear stats is just plain dumb in tab. You might dodge or roll in tab combat but it's actually just a defense buff. Where as in an action combat dodge you actually have to get the hell out of the way and it's straight up damage for being a slug. Nothing beats that feel imo.
Originally posted by Manolios in a mmo that has all the goodies, dungeons/raids/world events/bg's/arenas/owpvp etc, do you preffer a tab targeting or action combat system?
Good poll.
I actually prefer Tab Targeting and find this new "action combat" craze annoying. AC seems to exist to give players who wanted "more skill" something new.
I prefer action combat. Tab-target is extremely boring after playing it for so long whereas I never get bored of combat in action-oriented games such as Tera or Neverwinter. It gives me a lot more to pay attention to than tab-targeting and as a result keeps me more involved.
Originally posted by Razeekster If it's an MMO that I'm going to play for more than 2 hours a day tab-targetting for sure. Action combat is sort of annoying after a while (at least to me).
Depends on if its a grind game or not and how the same it is, I mean you could play a FPS for hours so why not a MMO as long as it is interesting?
Originally posted by Manolios in a mmo that has all the goodies, dungeons/raids/world events/bg's/arenas/owpvp etc, do you preffer a tab targeting or action combat system?
Good poll.
I actually prefer Tab Targeting and find this new "action combat" craze annoying. AC seems to exist to give players who wanted "more skill" something new.
It's more than just wanting combat to be more interesting. It's also about not having to look at your UI at all. You can focus entirely on the fight and that is a freedom that is hard to give back, which is why many players can't go back to tab target.
It's more than just wanting combat to be more interesting. It's also about not having to look at your UI at all. You can focus entirely on the fight and that is a freedom that is hard to give back, which is why many players can't go back to tab target.
Having to look at your UI is a bad thing? That's news to me.
You can focus entirely on the fight with both styles, AC just makes it easier for fresh MMO players.
Let's be honest...your pvpers...and I don't mean the care bears that like pvp on the side, I mean your full time pvpers will by far vote for action combat. Pve types enjoy other things outside of combat and are probably content with tab target.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Originally posted by SirBalin Let's be honest...your pvpers...and I don't mean the care bears that like pvp on the side, I mean your full time pvpers will by far vote for action combat. Pve types enjoy other things outside of combat and are probably content with tab target.
This is true for me. Combat is something I have to do to get almost anywhere in an MMO. I rarely seek it out. I rarely hop from opponent to opponent across a zone.
For me, there should be more to a game than combat.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by TheMaahes Originally posted by LeiloniIt's more than just wanting combat to be more interesting. It's also about not having to look at your UI at all. You can focus entirely on the fight and that is a freedom that is hard to give back, which is why many players can't go back to tab target.
Having to look at your UI is a bad thing? That's news to me.
You can focus entirely on the fight with both styles, AC just makes it easier for fresh MMO players.
Really? What about healing in tab target MMOs?
How can you effectively and efficiently heal in a tab target MMO with no interaction with the UI?
Originally posted by LeiloniIt's more than just wanting combat to be more interesting. It's also about not having to look at your UI at all. You can focus entirely on the fight and that is a freedom that is hard to give back, which is why many players can't go back to tab target.
Having to look at your UI is a bad thing? That's news to me.
You can focus entirely on the fight with both styles, AC just makes it easier for fresh MMO players.
Really? What about healing in tab target MMOs?
How can you effectively and efficiently heal in a tab target MMO with no interaction with the UI?
Same way they do it in TF2 competitive matches, situational awareness, voice chat, predictions based on experience, etc.
Originally posted by LeiloniIt's more than just wanting combat to be more interesting. It's also about not having to look at your UI at all. You can focus entirely on the fight and that is a freedom that is hard to give back, which is why many players can't go back to tab target.
Having to look at your UI is a bad thing? That's news to me.
You can focus entirely on the fight with both styles, AC just makes it easier for fresh MMO players.
Really? What about healing in tab target MMOs?
How can you effectively and efficiently heal in a tab target MMO with no interaction with the UI?
Same way they do it in TF2 competitive matches, situational awareness, voice chat, predictions based on experience, etc.
Key word there was "tab target". TF2 and tab target MMO's are entirely different experiences. LMAO.
The entire discussion here is surrounding targeting differences - so tab targeting forces you to click on a player portrait in the UI to heal - because in tab target games you can't actually use a skill unless you have a target first. In Action combat games, they are more similar to FPS games like TF2 because you don't need to have a target to use skills most of the time - you aim instead, or if you really wanted to you can just heal/shoot at nothing. You can't do that in tab target games - it is quite literally, impossible. You need to acquire a target first except when you heal, you can't tab so you either hit a shortcut key, mouse over the person (which is a bit more difficult in tab target games since they are not built for that), or you click the UI.
This is why some of us, myself included, are arguing that action combat MMO's are more fun. Because in action combat games you don't have to look at the UI, you can heal just by aiming at the person. That's what makes it so fun. Tab target games you can't do that.
Edit: Also I'm not sure if you've ever played a healer in tab target games but the classes and skills are more complicated to make up for the simpler combat. Action combat games, and FPS games, have skills and classes that are much more simple because aiming and moving are a much bigger part of combat. So in TERA I don't need to look at the UI to heal, but I can also heal a guy from 0 to 100% HP in one heal which is pretty insane. In tab target games, you can't do that. You usually have much smaller heals that need to be spammed, or heals that have CDs, or you need to use skills in a certain way to get a stacking buff or some other stupid mechanic in order to maximize your healing. That kind of micro management of your healing isn't really something you can do in aiming focused games (nor would I want to), but tab target games you can only because you are staring at a UI all day.
Comments
40.xx% of people picked it over action ( not just the difference between the two ) Considering how new and how few mmos out there use action combat I'm surprised the numbers are even close. People tend to not like change and often want just reskinned games because they're familliar and easy to learn that way.
100% agree with this statement. I enjoy tab targeting in my MMORPG. Any MMORPG without tab targeting, I don't consider playing it.
The best MMORPG would give the option for players to use either of these options. Just as a player can change graphics settings, a player should be able to select whether or not to use tab targeting or a targeting reticle. If that were in an MMORPG, how many players would go for tab targeting?
I'll mmos couldn't handle real time combat, modern pcs and internet connections can.
I'm on about full on real time like ps2 and darkfall, not half way systems like tsw, gw2, tera, Neverwinter etc..
What I would love is a game like planetside bit with mount and blade / chivalry / war of the roses type combat / setting.
Wall / teleport / invulnerable / speed / radar hacks happen with both systems. Tab Target games still do a bunch of stuff client side.
The only difference is fps has aim bots. Tab Target has gcd hacks (either miss gcd or queue abilities to all fire on same gcd) the latter is rife in wow & war.
I guess aim bot is harder to spot though.
The notion that TAB targetting somehow requires more tactics is not only blatantly false, but nothing more than an excuse.
Realistically the targetting method has absolutely nothing to do w/ how tactical a game is. For example some of the most tactical games are neither tab target or action combat (they're click & drag). Furthermore, you can look at certain classes in various action games that require you to constantly switch targets and be smart about skill uses (for example, Control Wizard in NWO).
People that tend to view action combat as a 'zerg fest' seem to both have trouble with the concept of what a zerg actualy means, as well as issues understanding how action combat actually works. It does seem a lot more chaotic at first, but as with any mechanic, once you actually understand it, you can bring order to the chaos. After all, even in the most dumbed down TAB target games (i.e. WoW) they can be chaotic as hell if you don't understand how threat works, or how to handle adds properly.
Honestly? There is next to no difference.
Fast paced tab-target games like WoW are identical to Action Combat games.
In fact, a lot of "action combat" games are slower than some of the faster "tab target" games.
It truly doesn't matter to me. I am extremely skilled in any type of gameplay or style, and I excel or am defeated the same way no matter how it is.
Obviously theres a big difference between FPS games and guns where you die from range in seconds, and any kind of RPG-like or action adventure game. But amongst themselves, MMO's are nearly identical to me no matter what fancy feature they claim to possess.
With the exception of automatic weapons like seen in modern FPS shooters, you can only do an action every [x] or so minutes anyway. Aiming is not hard, and they purposefully make it easy for even unskilled users to successfully hit the enemy character with their abilities in the majority of games. MMORPG's suffer from too much lag to be able to pull off extremely fast moving characters with RPG-like abilities. MMOFPS games barely pull off their fast moving characters and high RPM weapons, and that isn't without a ridiculous amount of cheaters.
I have played MMOs that have had one or the other and they both have their strengths. If an MMO included one or the other, it would depend on how well the implemented the system, not which system they implemented.
I voted "I don't mind". I think that was the right response.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Some mmos are sandbox, some are themepark, some are a little of both.
Some mmos are fantasy, some are scifi,some are a little of both. (steampunk, magitech)
Some mmos are level based, some are skill based, some are a little of both (TSW?)
Some mmos are crafting/economy heavy, some have almost no crafting, most balance these two.
Some mmos are heavy level grinder, some are heavy token grinders, some are heavy rep grinders.
Some mmos are completely open world, some are seamless but zoned and some are highly instanced.
Some mmos are more realistic graphically and some are more more cartoonish graphically.
Now we also have mmos that have action combat and others that have, for lack of a good term, more traditional combat. and there are all kinds of variation in between.
These are all choices, preferences, nothing more. Find a game that fits as many of your preferences as you can and then play it. And quicherbitchin.
All die, so die well.
Smile
Very good comment, I like your thoughts.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Good poll.
I actually prefer Tab Targeting and find this new "action combat" craze annoying. AC seems to exist to give players who wanted "more skill" something new.
Depends on if its a grind game or not and how the same it is, I mean you could play a FPS for hours so why not a MMO as long as it is interesting?
It's more than just wanting combat to be more interesting. It's also about not having to look at your UI at all. You can focus entirely on the fight and that is a freedom that is hard to give back, which is why many players can't go back to tab target.
Having to look at your UI is a bad thing? That's news to me.
You can focus entirely on the fight with both styles, AC just makes it easier for fresh MMO players.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
For me, there should be more to a game than combat.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You can focus entirely on the fight with both styles, AC just makes it easier for fresh MMO players.
Really? What about healing in tab target MMOs?
How can you effectively and efficiently heal in a tab target MMO with no interaction with the UI?
This is why I am staying away from Action Combat MMOs. The combat is great for a console game not so great for an MMO.
Same way they do it in TF2 competitive matches, situational awareness, voice chat, predictions based on experience, etc.
Key word there was "tab target". TF2 and tab target MMO's are entirely different experiences. LMAO.
The entire discussion here is surrounding targeting differences - so tab targeting forces you to click on a player portrait in the UI to heal - because in tab target games you can't actually use a skill unless you have a target first. In Action combat games, they are more similar to FPS games like TF2 because you don't need to have a target to use skills most of the time - you aim instead, or if you really wanted to you can just heal/shoot at nothing. You can't do that in tab target games - it is quite literally, impossible. You need to acquire a target first except when you heal, you can't tab so you either hit a shortcut key, mouse over the person (which is a bit more difficult in tab target games since they are not built for that), or you click the UI.
This is why some of us, myself included, are arguing that action combat MMO's are more fun. Because in action combat games you don't have to look at the UI, you can heal just by aiming at the person. That's what makes it so fun. Tab target games you can't do that.
Edit: Also I'm not sure if you've ever played a healer in tab target games but the classes and skills are more complicated to make up for the simpler combat. Action combat games, and FPS games, have skills and classes that are much more simple because aiming and moving are a much bigger part of combat. So in TERA I don't need to look at the UI to heal, but I can also heal a guy from 0 to 100% HP in one heal which is pretty insane. In tab target games, you can't do that. You usually have much smaller heals that need to be spammed, or heals that have CDs, or you need to use skills in a certain way to get a stacking buff or some other stupid mechanic in order to maximize your healing. That kind of micro management of your healing isn't really something you can do in aiming focused games (nor would I want to), but tab target games you can only because you are staring at a UI all day.