when you are out in the heat of battle! How much do you care about the sweet graphics?
I can tell you now, you will not care at all! You will care if it effects how smoothly the battles run and how it effect the amount of people you can smash into the ground like the peasants they are!
Graphics are nice when I have the time to admire them. However, when I am killing people, all I admire is the kill spam!
Originally posted by Father_Jack Personally I like stylized, stay far away from the uncanny valley. I love the look of TF2 and Pixar films like the Incredibles or UP. But not to cartoony, it's a fine line I suppose.
I would be very unhappy if CU looks like TF2. Cartoony graphics makes sense for Wildstar not for a serious fantasy RvR game like CU.
when you are out in the heat of battle! How much do you care about the sweet graphics?
I can tell you now, you will not care at all! You will care if it effects how smoothly the battles run and how it effect the amount of people you can smash into the ground like the peasants they are!
Graphics are nice when I have the time to admire them. However, when I am killing people, all I admire is the kill spam!
Agree^^
I would like to know what you mean by "stylized" and "realistic". I didn't play that many games, so i have a hard time picturing that in my head.
Some pictures to compare the different possibilities would be nice.
Just don't make it look like WoW. Make it more realistic than cartoony. no fancy enormous swords 3x times bigger than your character and no fancy shoulders. I really like daoc way. But right now daoc graphic is outdated. It should be something like daoc but with graphic at lvl of 2008-2009.
BTW we have new computers on way / DDR 4/ new processors / new card graphic. We have also console upgrades soon which means graphics will be in all games better. If camelot unchained will be realesed in 2015 we need realistic graphic from at least 2008-2009. Otherwise it will look bad and it won't compete at all. That all new machines will give so big damn boost soon that big fights won't be problem and won't be laggy with graphic from 2008-2009.
Graphic is not so important but cartoony style - bleh it's not for mature old style game.
when you are out in the heat of battle! How much do you care about the sweet graphics?
I can tell you now, you will not care at all! You will care if it effects how smoothly the battles run and how it effect the amount of people you can smash into the ground like the peasants they are!
Graphics are nice when I have the time to admire them. However, when I am killing people, all I admire is the kill spam!
Agree^^
I would like to know what you mean by "stylized" and "realistic". I didn't play that many games, so i have a hard time picturing that in my head.
Some pictures to compare the different possibilities would be nice.
Yeah, "realistic" in this context is actually a misnomer. It's perfectly possible to aim for realism without sacrificing performance. What a lot of games (WoW and StarWars in particular) have done lately is to aim for a cartoony look, because it's easier for people to accept a low level of detail when they look at something they didn't expect to look realistic in the first place.
For some easy examples, look at screenshots from WoW (stylized) and DAoC (realistic)
I can't say I find it easy to choose between realistic and stylized.
However I can say that I really dislike happy flowery colours and blooms in a fighting game.
Look at the difference between Diablo 2 and 3.... D2's graphics are way more immersive. Same for Path of Exile, which actually is attracting a lot D2 players.
I'll take whatever style they pick as long as when the 200 of my realmmates show up I don't start hopping all over the screen. Probably, prefer a realistic look if I had to pick though.
I really don't like the cartoon style of Wow, but I would begin with clarifying the difference between realistic, stylized and cartoon look.
Realistic look in terms of photo realisim is not achievable because the models should contain as less triangles as possible. and for a realistic model, a huge amount of triangles is required.
This leaves us with not so realistic graphics in CU. When thinking back to daoc pre-catacombs, the graphic was low-polygon and not realistic. However, the world does not feel "cartoonish".
The first time I recognize a real cartoon style was when I was playing warcraft III. This has not only to do with the graphic itself, but also with the movement. I remember how Uther Lightbringer was "bouncing" when he runs..
I think with CU we get a game with it's own style. It will not be too cartoonish, since CSE is listen to its community, but not photorealistic either. Maybe a kind of low polygon skyrim?
Personally I prefer a dark style, not too much colors. Beside the yellow and red of smoldering pixie-trees and burning viking-ships. ;-)
MMO's played so far: UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
Originally posted by meddyck I think performance in huge battles will be more of a function of the engine they select and the client-server architecture than how realistic or cartoony the player models are. I'd prefer a more realistic, DAOC-style art direction as long as it can be done and maintain the needed performance. Mark has already stated CU won't have the ridiculous shoulder pads you see in some games, so we already know the game won't be extremely stylized.
It would be nice if MJ could post an example of a basic toon for us to comment on. I am sure it will look fine, but it would answer people's questions on what we should be expecting in CU.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall. Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
Personally, I spent as much money as I could afford building ym gaming rig, therefore any games I choose to play MUST have graphics on par with Gw2 At The VERY least.
I agree, I absolutely cannot stand cell shaded graphics, I refuse to play games that use that form of graphics, they are so UGLY! I outgrew cartoons 30 years ago, im not going to play any games that look like cartoons to me.
I do not care about low end machines and making a game run on them. I understand why its done, obviously, but I have always been a believer that you can have MMO's with graphics on par with Crysis 3 and have low end machines playable, just make it so that you can scale down the graphics options far enough for low end machines. Then everyone egts what they want.
If a publisher truly wants the best possible game they can make, then this is the route they should take on the graphics issue. I work in the IT / video game industry and have some idea of what it takes to publish a game, so I wont hold my breath lol.
Originally posted by MasahikoKobe Anything NOT cel-shaded
I agree with this.
They have to look modern as well. I lean towards realistic but, as most here agree, as long as the game runs and, I will add, I can actually see my enemies on the screen I think that would be a step in the right direction.
when you are out in the heat of battle! How much do you care about the sweet graphics?
I can tell you now, you will not care at all! You will care if it effects how smoothly the battles run and how it effect the amount of people you can smash into the ground like the peasants they are!
Graphics are nice when I have the time to admire them. However, when I am killing people, all I admire is the kill spam!
In my case you are wrong. I like the pretty particle effects, I like the fancy shaders, etc. Not saying I like having graphics completely cloud my view during combat, but yes I do care. A great deal actually.
I hope for realistic, but not at the expense of performance. It should be possible to make the game look realistic without going nuts over details. DAoC graphics would work fine for me, but if it looks cartoonish ala WoW/WAR then I'll pass.
I have always been a fan of the tabletop Warhammer universe and so I am bias to that style. Warcraft (the first RTS game) was initally going to be a game set in the Warhammer world, but later the Warhammer people backed out. Blizzard decided to press, even with the Warhammer-styled graphics and well the rest is history. It always makes me sad whenever people say WAR looked like WoW, but in fact it was the exact opposite! I could do a similar comparsion with StarCraft, but you get the point.
Long story short, I enjoy the high-fantasy look that Warhammer has, but I also like the hybrid of the two, like in Skyrim. I never had the problem with DAoC's graphics, but I know some people, that's all they care about. IMHO, I am more interested in the gameplay, than pretty graphics.
Agree with you, but the nerd in me needs to make a correction: Dune 2 is generally regarded as the first RTS game. It was released in 1992, whereas Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was released in 1994.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
As long as the graphics look decent (doesn't need to be great), I don't care about the style. I favor performance over graphics, so my vote is for whatever allows the most players on screen at one time.
Originally posted by sweetdigs As long as the graphics look decent (doesn't need to be great), I don't care about the style. I favor performance over graphics, so my vote is for whatever allows the most players on screen at one time.
In that case everyone will just be wireframe models
Originally posted by sweetdigs As long as the graphics look decent (doesn't need to be great), I don't care about the style. I favor performance over graphics, so my vote is for whatever allows the most players on screen at one time.
In that case everyone will just be wireframe models
I would play an mmorpg with only wireframe graphics.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
when you are out in the heat of battle! How much do you care about the sweet graphics?
I can tell you now, you will not care at all! You will care if it effects how smoothly the battles run and how it effect the amount of people you can smash into the ground like the peasants they are!
Graphics are nice when I have the time to admire them. However, when I am killing people, all I admire is the kill spam!
In my case you are wrong. I like the pretty particle effects, I like the fancy shaders, etc. Not saying I like having graphics completely cloud my view during combat, but yes I do care. A great deal actually.
Well your in luck then for the engine will have particle effects and fancy shaders and all the other latest graphical bells and whistles you can squeeze out of a graphics card, just because the graphics have a style you or many others may not agree about it certainly does not mean it won't be without shaders/particles/lighgting effects etc etc.
Comments
I ask you all this question!
when you are out in the heat of battle! How much do you care about the sweet graphics?
I can tell you now, you will not care at all! You will care if it effects how smoothly the battles run and how it effect the amount of people you can smash into the ground like the peasants they are!
Graphics are nice when I have the time to admire them. However, when I am killing people, all I admire is the kill spam!
I would be very unhappy if CU looks like TF2. Cartoony graphics makes sense for Wildstar not for a serious fantasy RvR game like CU.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Agree^^
I would like to know what you mean by "stylized" and "realistic". I didn't play that many games, so i have a hard time picturing that in my head.
Some pictures to compare the different possibilities would be nice.
Just don't make it look like WoW. Make it more realistic than cartoony. no fancy enormous swords 3x times bigger than your character and no fancy shoulders. I really like daoc way. But right now daoc graphic is outdated. It should be something like daoc but with graphic at lvl of 2008-2009.
BTW we have new computers on way / DDR 4/ new processors / new card graphic. We have also console upgrades soon which means graphics will be in all games better. If camelot unchained will be realesed in 2015 we need realistic graphic from at least 2008-2009. Otherwise it will look bad and it won't compete at all. That all new machines will give so big damn boost soon that big fights won't be problem and won't be laggy with graphic from 2008-2009.
Graphic is not so important but cartoony style - bleh it's not for mature old style game.
Yeah, "realistic" in this context is actually a misnomer. It's perfectly possible to aim for realism without sacrificing performance. What a lot of games (WoW and StarWars in particular) have done lately is to aim for a cartoony look, because it's easier for people to accept a low level of detail when they look at something they didn't expect to look realistic in the first place.
For some easy examples, look at screenshots from WoW (stylized) and DAoC (realistic)
I can't say I find it easy to choose between realistic and stylized.
However I can say that I really dislike happy flowery colours and blooms in a fighting game.
Look at the difference between Diablo 2 and 3.... D2's graphics are way more immersive. Same for Path of Exile, which actually is attracting a lot D2 players.
I'll take whatever style they pick as long as when the 200 of my realmmates show up I don't start hopping all over the screen. Probably, prefer a realistic look if I had to pick though.
Vymm
I really don't like the cartoon style of Wow, but I would begin with clarifying the difference between realistic, stylized and cartoon look.
Realistic look in terms of photo realisim is not achievable because the models should contain as less triangles as possible. and for a realistic model, a huge amount of triangles is required.
This leaves us with not so realistic graphics in CU. When thinking back to daoc pre-catacombs, the graphic was low-polygon and not realistic. However, the world does not feel "cartoonish".
The first time I recognize a real cartoon style was when I was playing warcraft III. This has not only to do with the graphic itself, but also with the movement. I remember how Uther Lightbringer was "bouncing" when he runs..
I think with CU we get a game with it's own style. It will not be too cartoonish, since CSE is listen to its community, but not photorealistic either. Maybe a kind of low polygon skyrim?
Personally I prefer a dark style, not too much colors. Beside the yellow and red of smoldering pixie-trees and burning viking-ships. ;-)
MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
It would be nice if MJ could post an example of a basic toon for us to comment on. I am sure it will look fine, but it would answer people's questions on what we should be expecting in CU.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
Personally, I spent as much money as I could afford building ym gaming rig, therefore any games I choose to play MUST have graphics on par with Gw2 At The VERY least.
I agree, I absolutely cannot stand cell shaded graphics, I refuse to play games that use that form of graphics, they are so UGLY! I outgrew cartoons 30 years ago, im not going to play any games that look like cartoons to me.
I do not care about low end machines and making a game run on them. I understand why its done, obviously, but I have always been a believer that you can have MMO's with graphics on par with Crysis 3 and have low end machines playable, just make it so that you can scale down the graphics options far enough for low end machines. Then everyone egts what they want.
If a publisher truly wants the best possible game they can make, then this is the route they should take on the graphics issue. I work in the IT / video game industry and have some idea of what it takes to publish a game, so I wont hold my breath lol.
This is just one mans opinion.
I agree with this.
They have to look modern as well. I lean towards realistic but, as most here agree, as long as the game runs and, I will add, I can actually see my enemies on the screen I think that would be a step in the right direction.
In my case you are wrong. I like the pretty particle effects, I like the fancy shaders, etc. Not saying I like having graphics completely cloud my view during combat, but yes I do care. A great deal actually.
Agree with you, but the nerd in me needs to make a correction: Dune 2 is generally regarded as the first RTS game. It was released in 1992, whereas Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was released in 1994.
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Support old-school gaming!
Is that your way of saying realistic stylized?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
In that case everyone will just be wireframe models
I would play an mmorpg with only wireframe graphics.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
As long as stylized doesn't mean wildly oversized weapons, then I say do what works best for a balance between visuals and performance.
Don't make the game the ugliest thing on the planet, but I don't need to zoom in on your character's face and see each imperfection.
Well your in luck then for the engine will have particle effects and fancy shaders and all the other latest graphical bells and whistles you can squeeze out of a graphics card, just because the graphics have a style you or many others may not agree about it certainly does not mean it won't be without shaders/particles/lighgting effects etc etc.
What...what...what?!?
The CU team wrote another term paper? Color me shocked.
Great, gameplay will trump graphics. I'll believe it when they actually deliver something.
Confidence 0, Skepticism 1
lets be honest the game is probably gonna be a pretty ugly game... like most western games
it wont look anywhere as good as black desert or bless.. or even final fantasy