For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
Originally posted by Phry In the end, Zenimax will have to choose which demographic they want to appeal to, although catering to the DAoC crowd and the TES crowd shouldnt be mutually exclusive, there is no real reason why a racial faction lock should be in place, it doesnt fit in with the TES lore, except with some exceptionally obscure shoehorning that isnt really in keeping with TES anyway, thats not to say that a game can't be made in the TES vein with 3 factions, just that basing it on racial lock-ins was a bit of a weird move, basing the 3 factions on idealogical motives would have been far better, and more in keeping with TES, and moreover would have given players the option of choosing, which is also in keeping with the spirit of TES.
That's my personal view. Have 3 factions. Do NOT make them race locked. Let them be a choice, as is more like the TES way. I have zero interest in AvAvA. None. Nadda. Zilch. With a choice, I could ignore AvAvA and play on. Since I am forced into it, I have very little desire to even play the game.
I'm totally down with the AvAvA but I also agree. There's an RP group that I'm rather fond of, but it seems like they're bent on going for the pseudo-vikings. My husband and I are bent on playing in the Daggerfall covenant. Not only can we not join them, I'm worried that all those interesting rp interactions from a racial point of view might be totally impossible with this race faction tie.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
I'm not even bashing the design, looks like it could be a good game.
I think all we're seeing now is smoke and mirrors to hide this design, with intent on making the game look more favorable to TES fans.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
Having said that, I don't believe Zenimax went into this endeavor without knowing this info therefore they probably based some of their decision on other factors.
Looks like majority of the fans are on consoles also and they have to think about that too.
yeah, so when Bethesda says that the majority of their customers are console based, they ain't kidding.
hmmm I wonder if they are working on that? Well, they have not made that indicatioin as they have clearly stated windows and mac. still...
I would not be surprised if it comes out on consoles later on as someone stated that one of the devs said that the controls can be used with gamepad using other software such as xpadder and from seeing the gameplay video from pax i can see why the gamepad can be used. Hell I use gamepad on GW2 and neverwinter beta.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
Well, first off, Matt Firor (the only Mythic dev working on this title) didn't work on Warhammer. He was nowhere near that project. Second, Warhammer is so vastly different from what's been announced as being implemented for ESO that, literally, the only thing similar is that players kill other players.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
Well, first off, Matt Firor (the only Mythic dev working on this title) didn't work on Warhammer. He was nowhere near that project. Second, Warhammer is so vastly different from what's been announced as being implemented for ESO that, literally, the only thing similar is that players kill other players.
Still bethesda shouldnt have handed their IP to these devs that clearly is just using it as an excuse to make daoc 2 with ES skin. Bethesda just analy screwed their fanbase with this.
I'm not sure I completely understand the OP, so I apologize in advance. I am currently playing Skyrim and I guess after reading the OP I almost feel like Im somewhere in the middle between the two. I could care less about the deep lore, but I like the Skyrim Universe, races, style of Play, exploring most anywhere, NPCs that don't just stand around...but at the same time I realize its an MMO with thousands of others and it can't be exactly the same, so as long as it has a social aspect and the NPCs aren't completely static, and I can explore to my hearts content without being forced from one city to another (though I realize there are alliance restrictions)...I'll be happy. I just want something that isn't completely linear and I can play solo or group and they both feel satisfying....and if I want to dig deeper, like read lore, its there, but it doesn't have to be exactly to the Elder Scrolls Series.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
Well, first off, Matt Firor (the only Mythic dev working on this title) didn't work on Warhammer. He was nowhere near that project. Second, Warhammer is so vastly different from what's been announced as being implemented for ESO that, literally, the only thing similar is that players kill other players.
Still bethesda shouldnt have handed their IP to these devs that clearly is just using it as an excuse to make daoc 2 with ES skin. Bethesda just analy screwed their fanbase with this.
Oh. The flawless counter argument of "Yeah ,but still...". I tip my hat, and shall concede to you, good sir. But before I exit this debate, I'll share an anecdote with you. It's a tale of ice-cream, and a petulant boy who would only eat vanilla:
This poor, misguided youth wouldn't touch chocolate in any form; he detested the stuff. So imagine his utter horror when, one fine summer's day, his father took him to the ice-cream parlor and bought him a vanilla cone with (gasp) chocolate syrup. Oh, how the boy cried and lambasted his father for this unacceptable betrayal. Chocolate!? On vanilla!? Madness!!
The boy refused to eat. In protest, he held his cone and pointed out all of it's flaws to his father for most of the walk home. What would have been an amazing ice-cream cone had been ruined by his father's careless choices. Couldn't he see that he was ruining something special?
Then it happened. Mid-stride, the boys toe found a crack in the cement, and down he began to topple. His father reached for his hand to grab him, and, in so doing, unintentionally forced the chocolate covered vanilla ice-cream into the boys mouth. At first, terror gripped the child. He actually had the vile concoction in his mouth! He prepared to spit, but hesitated. Then something marvelous happened.
Working the flavors back and forth in his mouth, he realized that the chocolate actually enhanced the vanilla. Unbelievable!, thought the boy. This is actually... better than vanilla by itself! And the rest of the walk home he told his smiling father all about how much he enjoyed vanilla ice-cream, with chocolate syrup on top.
Originally posted by keithian I'm not sure I completely understand the OP, so I apologize in advance. I am currently playing Skyrim and I guess after reading the OP I almost feel like Im somewhere in the middle between the two. I could care less about the deep lore, but I like the Skyrim Universe, races, style of Play, exploring most anywhere, NPCs that don't just stand around...but at the same time I realize its an MMO with thousands of others and it can't be exactly the same, so as long as it has a social aspect and the NPCs aren't completely static, and I can explore to my hearts content without being forced from one city to another (though I realize there are alliance restrictions)...I'll be happy. I just want something that isn't completely linear and I can play solo or group and they both feel satisfying....and if I want to dig deeper, like read lore, its there, but it doesn't have to be exactly to the Elder Scrolls Series.
I think you will be pleased.
My original post is based on the short history of this forum and its wars...you had to be there
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
That's very good Rygard. That's how I feel.
I freely admit that they could have gone the other way and developed a mostly PvE MMO that would have been very close to Skyrim. I wouldn't have been as excited if they'd chosen that route, but I would have played it anyway...at least for a while.
But I have very little respect for developers who back away from their vision to maximize sales. They chose a way to do it. Now they should stick to their vision.
Someone else said something about smoke and mirrors to placate the TES fans... unfortunately it does look that way at the moment.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
Well, first off, Matt Firor (the only Mythic dev working on this title) didn't work on Warhammer. He was nowhere near that project. Second, Warhammer is so vastly different from what's been announced as being implemented for ESO that, literally, the only thing similar is that players kill other players.
Still bethesda shouldnt have handed their IP to these devs that clearly is just using it as an excuse to make daoc 2 with ES skin. Bethesda just analy screwed their fanbase with this.
Oh. The flawless counter argument of "Yeah ,but still...". I tip my hat, and shall concede to you, good sir. But before I exit this debate, I'll share an anecdote with you. It's a tale of ice-cream, and a petulant boy who would only eat vanilla:
This poor, misguided youth wouldn't touch chocolate in any form; he detested the stuff. So imagine his utter horror when, one fine summer's day, his father took him to the ice-cream parlor and bought him a vanilla cone with (gasp) chocolate syrup. Oh, how the boy cried and lambasted his father for this unacceptable betrayal. Chocolate!? On vanilla!? Madness!!
The boy refused to eat. In protest, he held his cone and pointed out all of it's flaws to his father for most of the walk home. What would have been an amazing ice-cream cone had been ruined by his father's careless choices. Couldn't he see that he was ruining something special?
Then it happened. Mid-stride, the boys toe found a crack in the cement, and down he began to topple. His father reached for his hand to grab him, and, in so doing, unintentionally forced the chocolate covered vanilla ice-cream into the boys mouth. At first, terror gripped the child. He actually had the vile concoction in his mouth! He prepared to spit, but hesitated. Then something marvelous happened.
Working the flavors back and forth in his mouth, he realized that the chocolate actually enhanced the vanilla. Unbelievable!, thought the boy. This is actually... better than vanilla by itself! And the rest of the walk home he told his smiling father all about how much he enjoyed vanilla ice-cream, with chocolate syrup on top.
Except in this case I have tasted that flavor in other mmos that did similar systems of gameplay and I didnt enjoy it. And I could also use the arguement of how people drink and eat snakes blood or dogs in other places in the world but I dont have to taste it to know I wont like it. I have tasted chocolate ice cream and I dont enjoy it, I can deal with it but in my mind im thinking I would enjoy vanilla a lot more. guess what not everyone is that boy because everyone has different taste buds and in this case opinions. Just because you like something doesnt mean others will like the same thing. I tried to get my friends into mmorpgs and they try it but they still dont enjoy it as much as single player games, some dont even want to play them at all after trying it.
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
Well, first off, Matt Firor (the only Mythic dev working on this title) didn't work on Warhammer. He was nowhere near that project. Second, Warhammer is so vastly different from what's been announced as being implemented for ESO that, literally, the only thing similar is that players kill other players.
Still bethesda shouldnt have handed their IP to these devs that clearly is just using it as an excuse to make daoc 2 with ES skin. Bethesda just analy screwed their fanbase with this.
Oh. The flawless counter argument of "Yeah ,but still...". I tip my hat, and shall concede to you, good sir. But before I exit this debate, I'll share an anecdote with you. It's a tale of ice-cream, and a petulant boy who would only eat vanilla:
This poor, misguided youth wouldn't touch chocolate in any form; he detested the stuff. So imagine his utter horror when, one fine summer's day, his father took him to the ice-cream parlor and bought him a vanilla cone with (gasp) chocolate syrup. Oh, how the boy cried and lambasted his father for this unacceptable betrayal. Chocolate!? On vanilla!? Madness!!
The boy refused to eat. In protest, he held his cone and pointed out all of it's flaws to his father for most of the walk home. What would have been an amazing ice-cream cone had been ruined by his father's careless choices. Couldn't he see that he was ruining something special?
Then it happened. Mid-stride, the boys toe found a crack in the cement, and down he began to topple. His father reached for his hand to grab him, and, in so doing, unintentionally forced the chocolate covered vanilla ice-cream into the boys mouth. At first, terror gripped the child. He actually had the vile concoction in his mouth! He prepared to spit, but hesitated. Then something marvelous happened.
Working the flavors back and forth in his mouth, he realized that the chocolate actually enhanced the vanilla. Unbelievable!, thought the boy. This is actually... better than vanilla by itself! And the rest of the walk home he told his smiling father all about how much he enjoyed vanilla ice-cream, with chocolate syrup on top.
And another thing, I will use your little story as an analogy to the game. In this case lets say the vanilla ice cream is ESO and the chocolate fudge or whatever topping u want is the element that allows us to interact with players of other factions. So pretty much they want to make a ES without the topping just plain vanilla which is boring because i would like toppings to make things more interesting.
While a full Skyrim-online, sandboxey PvE-focused game, MIGHT have worked, the fact of the matter is, that's not what they chose to do with Elder Scrolls Online, and so, they build it from the ground up to be something different... Trying to go back and mush it into being that now, is simply not going to work. It will hurt the game, and ultimately, hurt Zenimax Media, who also owns the company that makes our Elder Scrolls Games...
I don't know abou t you guys, but I don't want Elder Scrolls 6 to be a low-budget piece of trash, because some Elder Scrolls players decided to use their voice to try and turn Elder Scrolls Online into something it was not, and never intended to be, and then wreck the game completely... We have ourselves to blame for this current state of indecisiveness fogginess that ZOS currently finds themselves in... I say, we let them make the game they intneded to make in the first place, and leave them alone.
I will play it for pvp as many others and if they break it at some point they will loose half of their population...
Lets play the numbers game (unable to verify sales of TES games, just numbers found from a few sources, might be wrong but you get the point)...
DAOC subscribers/players roughly 250,000.
TES subscribers/players over 7 million (Oblivion 3mil and Skyrim 4mil).
If you were making a game to make a profit who would you want to piss off less?
Subscribers/Players... I lol'd. Cuz those are the same thing, right? Also, DAoC had 250k AT PEAK... Over the course of the last 11 yeaars, DAOC has had MLLIONS upon MILLIONS of players... I'm sick of the Single-player RPG crowd hearingt this one statistic and thinking that it's the total number of RvR fans in the world, rofl. Please. RvR has been in-demand for YEARS now, and by millions of players willing to pay $15/month. Good luck getting $15 a month from the SPRPG crowd once they've blown thru all your content...
Edit: ALSO to say TES has 7 million players because 3 million bought Oblivion, and 4 million bought Skyrim? Are you joking? 80% of that is overlap, AT LEAST... True Elder Scrolls fans would have BOUGHT Skyrim for sure (I myself played a good amount of Skyrim), so no, they don't have 7 million fans, they have 4. FOUR. And most of them probably wouldn't pay $15 amonth for an MMO, because the concept is foreign to them, and they're already spending $10 amonth, or whatever, for X-Box Live, so they can play Call of Duty. lol
Thing is they aren't trying anything different, they're copying a game that a handful of them helped make over 12 years ago. If they actually wanted to do something different why not actually take, not what made the IP a great single player game, but what made it a great RPG and integrate it into a MMO. With all of the posts about wanting something different and new, it's hard to understand why people still get excited when we see devs rehashing the same old mechanics from a decade ago.
I am a little in both camps, but what I really want is a game where I can play with my friends and we can all enjoy it together no matter which race we want to play. I even think we should be able to group even if we are in different factions (just not in faction pvp).
Love it or hate it, in GW2 I can play with any other race. I can play with people of different levels. I can even play with people on different servers (except in rvr).
In Skyrim I could be any race go, anywhere in the world and join any faction (assume I met the req.)
I guess its okay though, because ESo is planned to be a niche game (rvrvr focused). In order to make a profit with the smaller player base its a good thing they didn't spend a ton of money in development....
This is easy, It will happen exactly the same that did happen with SWTOR; TES fans will cry and scream all over the internet because ESO is not like a ES game, ¨They should have make TES VI and not this ******¨. After a month only the MMO players will be playing the game and a few TES fans, while everyone else gonna spend their internet life talking about why TESO is a huge fail, and one of the worst game of the TES series. Thats what gonna happen, im my case im happy that so far the game will be a PvP focused MMO.
Originally posted by Cochran1 Thing is they aren't trying anything different, they're copying a game that a handful of them helped make over 12 years ago. If they actually wanted to do something different why not actually take, not what made the IP a great single player game, but what made it a great RPG and integrate it into a MMO. With all of the posts about wanting something different and new, it's hard to understand why people still get excited when we see devs rehashing the same old mechanics from a decade ago.
How do you know? Have you actually AvA'd in this game already? It could be very, very different from all you know.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
That's very good Rygard. That's how I feel.
I freely admit that they could have gone the other way and developed a mostly PvE MMO that would have been very close to Skyrim. I wouldn't have been as excited if they'd chosen that route, but I would have played it anyway...at least for a while.
But I have very little respect for developers who back away from their vision to maximize sales. They chose a way to do it. Now they should stick to their vision.
Someone else said something about smoke and mirrors to placate the TES fans... unfortunately it does look that way at the moment.
That's the nature of our industry now. That's what happens when art becomes more a business than a form of creative expression.
Everyone says WoW caters to the lowest common denominator in order to maximize sales, and that's why it was successful. I disagree. WoW released into a market with relatively (compared to today) few consumers. It was their execution of their vision for the game that vaulted them to success. I wish a AAA title would stick to it's guns for once instead of forcing change through fear of losing sales.
I will play it for pvp as many others and if they break it at some point they will loose half of their population...
Lets play the numbers game (unable to verify sales of TES games, just numbers found from a few sources, might be wrong but you get the point)...
DAOC subscribers/players roughly 250,000.
TES subscribers/players over 7 million (Oblivion 3mil and Skyrim 4mil).
If you were making a game to make a profit who would you want to piss off less?
Subscribers/Players... I lol'd. Cuz those are the same thing, right? Also, DAoC had 250k AT PEAK... Over the course of the last 11 yeaars, DAOC has had MLLIONS upon MILLIONS of players... I'm sick of the Single-player RPG crowd hearingt this one statistic and thinking that it's the total number of RvR fans in the world, rofl. Please. RvR has been in-demand for YEARS now, and by millions of players willing to pay $15/month. Good luck getting $15 a month from the SPRPG crowd once they've blown thru all your content...
At least he brought up a link to show some proof where is your proof of claiming those millions because I dont realy hear much about daoc especially since its subs are in the millions, if it was in the millions people would be talking about it as much as they talk about WoW in almost every website that hs to do with video games. Also PvE mmorpgs have more subscribers than any of the RvR mmorpgs. And even if they are able to get 1/4 of the player fanbase of the elder scrolls series it would still be in the millions which is a lot more than 250k as that posters stats show. And what makes you think they will go the P2P with 15 a month after seeing mmos with IPs like Star Wars and GW2 and pretty much all mmos this generation going the B2P or F2P with in game shops and finding more success out of it considering most of the ES IP fans are on consoles that are more used to microtransactions in games and majority are against monthly subs. There are still more people demanding more PvE than there are people who demand RvR. All you seem to do is insult others and their post and make immature comments but I dont find that surprising from a PvPers. You guys have become so predictable with your whole carebear namecalling thing that doesnt realy hurt no ones feelings. People who loves using the term carebear is prolly a punk in real life.
I will play it for pvp as many others and if they break it at some point they will loose half of their population...
Lets play the numbers game (unable to verify sales of TES games, just numbers found from a few sources, might be wrong but you get the point)...
DAOC subscribers/players roughly 250,000.
TES subscribers/players over 7 million (Oblivion 3mil and Skyrim 4mil).
If you were making a game to make a profit who would you want to piss off less?
Subscribers/Players... I lol'd. Cuz those are the same thing, right? Also, DAoC had 250k AT PEAK... Over the course of the last 11 yeaars, DAOC has had MLLIONS upon MILLIONS of players... I'm sick of the Single-player RPG crowd hearingt this one statistic and thinking that it's the total number of RvR fans in the world, rofl. Please. RvR has been in-demand for YEARS now, and by millions of players willing to pay $15/month. Good luck getting $15 a month from the SPRPG crowd once they've blown thru all your content...
Edit: ALSO to say TES has 7 million players because 3 million bought Oblivion, and 4 million bought Skyrim? Are you joking? 80% of that is overlap, AT LEAST... True Elder Scrolls fans would have BOUGHT Skyrim for sure (I myself played a good amount of Skyrim), so no, they don't have 7 million fans, they have 4. FOUR. And most of them probably wouldn't pay $15 amonth for an MMO, because the concept is foreign to them, and they're already spending $10 amonth, or whatever, for X-Box Live, so they can play Call of Duty. lol
Your first point is of course correct. However to say that Elder Scrolls players (as was alluded to earlier) are a minority is also pretty wrong. As far as TES having 7 million players becasue x bought y and z, well, That wasn't quite right either. as was posted earlier, Skyrim had 10 million on all platforms at the time of that article.
As far as what this game is being developed as (as was posted earlier) I know full well what it is being developed as. A themepark mmo. That much was clear from when I played it. Others will see this as well. It's a shame but there it is.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I will play it for pvp as many others and if they break it at some point they will loose half of their population...
Lets play the numbers game (unable to verify sales of TES games, just numbers found from a few sources, might be wrong but you get the point)...
DAOC subscribers/players roughly 250,000.
TES subscribers/players over 7 million (Oblivion 3mil and Skyrim 4mil).
If you were making a game to make a profit who would you want to piss off less?
Subscribers/Players... I lol'd. Cuz those are the same thing, right? Also, DAoC had 250k AT PEAK... Over the course of the last 11 yeaars, DAOC has had MLLIONS upon MILLIONS of players... I'm sick of the Single-player RPG crowd hearingt this one statistic and thinking that it's the total number of RvR fans in the world, rofl. Please. RvR has been in-demand for YEARS now, and by millions of players willing to pay $15/month. Good luck getting $15 a month from the SPRPG crowd once they've blown thru all your content...
At least he brought up a link to show some proof where is your proof of claiming those millions because I dont realy hear much about daoc especially since its subs are in the millions, if it was in the millions people would be talking about it as much as they talk about WoW in almost every website that hs to do with video games. Also PvE mmorpgs have more subscribers than any of the RvR mmorpgs. And even if they are able to get 1/4 of the player fanbase of the elder scrolls series it would still be in the millions which is a lot more than 250k as that posters stats show. And what makes you think they will go the P2P with 15 a month after seeing mmos with IPs like Star Wars and GW2 and pretty much all mmos this generation going the B2P or F2P with in game shops and finding more success out of it considering most of the ES IP fans are on consoles that are more used to microtransactions in games and majority are against monthly subs. There are still more people demanding more PvE than there are people who demand RvR. All you seem to do is insult others and their post and make immature comments but I dont find that surprising from a PvPers. You guys have become so predictable with your whole carebear namecalling thing that doesnt realy hurt no ones feelings. People who loves using the term carebear is prolly a punk in real life.
We get it. Your crowd is bigger than our crowd and you're going to beat us over the head with your consoles.
Can you not come up with a better argument than game design by mob rule?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
For Group 1, ESO is a familiar dish being cooked with a different recipe. Though they desperately want to eat, they fear how it will taste, and therefore refuse it before they've even taken a bite. They're missing the chance to possibly expand the list of flavors that they enjoy, and their arguments on these forums are the equivalents of screaming at the dinner table until daddy fixes it.
I don't respect any argument that attempts to force a game designer to change their vision for how a game should be. Likewise, I don't respect a game designer that compromizes on their vision in order to appease the complaints of people who haven't experienced the finished work.
I'm totally down with the AvAvA but I also agree. There's an RP group that I'm rather fond of, but it seems like they're bent on going for the pseudo-vikings. My husband and I are bent on playing in the Daggerfall covenant. Not only can we not join them, I'm worried that all those interesting rp interactions from a racial point of view might be totally impossible with this race faction tie.
People in group 1 prolly already tasted it with other games like warhammer or daoc and didnt enjoy it.
DAOC + GW2 + TES lore = ESO
I'm not even bashing the design, looks like it could be a good game.
I think all we're seeing now is smoke and mirrors to hide this design, with intent on making the game look more favorable to TES fans.
Wait... Warhammer? Wtf? That's not even close to the system under scrutiny in this game. Get out of here if you're going to use that game as an example why ESO needs to change. You might as well say you hated STO, therefore ESO is going to suck.
Warhammer was also RvR focused and made by devs of daoc. And it seems like Cyrodil is the same thing as any of the RvR maps in warhammer. But it was understandable why warhammer was like that because its warhammer. ES is totaly different type of series.
I would not be surprised if it comes out on consoles later on as someone stated that one of the devs said that the controls can be used with gamepad using other software such as xpadder and from seeing the gameplay video from pax i can see why the gamepad can be used. Hell I use gamepad on GW2 and neverwinter beta.
Well, first off, Matt Firor (the only Mythic dev working on this title) didn't work on Warhammer. He was nowhere near that project. Second, Warhammer is so vastly different from what's been announced as being implemented for ESO that, literally, the only thing similar is that players kill other players.
Still bethesda shouldnt have handed their IP to these devs that clearly is just using it as an excuse to make daoc 2 with ES skin. Bethesda just analy screwed their fanbase with this.
There Is Always Hope!
Oh. The flawless counter argument of "Yeah ,but still...". I tip my hat, and shall concede to you, good sir. But before I exit this debate, I'll share an anecdote with you. It's a tale of ice-cream, and a petulant boy who would only eat vanilla:
This poor, misguided youth wouldn't touch chocolate in any form; he detested the stuff. So imagine his utter horror when, one fine summer's day, his father took him to the ice-cream parlor and bought him a vanilla cone with (gasp) chocolate syrup. Oh, how the boy cried and lambasted his father for this unacceptable betrayal. Chocolate!? On vanilla!? Madness!!
The boy refused to eat. In protest, he held his cone and pointed out all of it's flaws to his father for most of the walk home. What would have been an amazing ice-cream cone had been ruined by his father's careless choices. Couldn't he see that he was ruining something special?
Then it happened. Mid-stride, the boys toe found a crack in the cement, and down he began to topple. His father reached for his hand to grab him, and, in so doing, unintentionally forced the chocolate covered vanilla ice-cream into the boys mouth. At first, terror gripped the child. He actually had the vile concoction in his mouth! He prepared to spit, but hesitated. Then something marvelous happened.
Working the flavors back and forth in his mouth, he realized that the chocolate actually enhanced the vanilla. Unbelievable!, thought the boy. This is actually... better than vanilla by itself! And the rest of the walk home he told his smiling father all about how much he enjoyed vanilla ice-cream, with chocolate syrup on top.
I think you will be pleased.
My original post is based on the short history of this forum and its wars...you had to be there
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That's very good Rygard. That's how I feel.
I freely admit that they could have gone the other way and developed a mostly PvE MMO that would have been very close to Skyrim. I wouldn't have been as excited if they'd chosen that route, but I would have played it anyway...at least for a while.
But I have very little respect for developers who back away from their vision to maximize sales. They chose a way to do it. Now they should stick to their vision.
Someone else said something about smoke and mirrors to placate the TES fans... unfortunately it does look that way at the moment.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Except in this case I have tasted that flavor in other mmos that did similar systems of gameplay and I didnt enjoy it. And I could also use the arguement of how people drink and eat snakes blood or dogs in other places in the world but I dont have to taste it to know I wont like it. I have tasted chocolate ice cream and I dont enjoy it, I can deal with it but in my mind im thinking I would enjoy vanilla a lot more. guess what not everyone is that boy because everyone has different taste buds and in this case opinions. Just because you like something doesnt mean others will like the same thing. I tried to get my friends into mmorpgs and they try it but they still dont enjoy it as much as single player games, some dont even want to play them at all after trying it.
And another thing, I will use your little story as an analogy to the game. In this case lets say the vanilla ice cream is ESO and the chocolate fudge or whatever topping u want is the element that allows us to interact with players of other factions. So pretty much they want to make a ES without the topping just plain vanilla which is boring because i would like toppings to make things more interesting.
While a full Skyrim-online, sandboxey PvE-focused game, MIGHT have worked, the fact of the matter is, that's not what they chose to do with Elder Scrolls Online, and so, they build it from the ground up to be something different... Trying to go back and mush it into being that now, is simply not going to work. It will hurt the game, and ultimately, hurt Zenimax Media, who also owns the company that makes our Elder Scrolls Games...
I don't know abou t you guys, but I don't want Elder Scrolls 6 to be a low-budget piece of trash, because some Elder Scrolls players decided to use their voice to try and turn Elder Scrolls Online into something it was not, and never intended to be, and then wreck the game completely... We have ourselves to blame for this current state of indecisiveness fogginess that ZOS currently finds themselves in... I say, we let them make the game they intneded to make in the first place, and leave them alone.
Subscribers/Players... I lol'd. Cuz those are the same thing, right? Also, DAoC had 250k AT PEAK... Over the course of the last 11 yeaars, DAOC has had MLLIONS upon MILLIONS of players... I'm sick of the Single-player RPG crowd hearingt this one statistic and thinking that it's the total number of RvR fans in the world, rofl. Please. RvR has been in-demand for YEARS now, and by millions of players willing to pay $15/month. Good luck getting $15 a month from the SPRPG crowd once they've blown thru all your content...
Edit: ALSO to say TES has 7 million players because 3 million bought Oblivion, and 4 million bought Skyrim? Are you joking? 80% of that is overlap, AT LEAST... True Elder Scrolls fans would have BOUGHT Skyrim for sure (I myself played a good amount of Skyrim), so no, they don't have 7 million fans, they have 4. FOUR. And most of them probably wouldn't pay $15 amonth for an MMO, because the concept is foreign to them, and they're already spending $10 amonth, or whatever, for X-Box Live, so they can play Call of Duty. lol
I am a little in both camps, but what I really want is a game where I can play with my friends and we can all enjoy it together no matter which race we want to play. I even think we should be able to group even if we are in different factions (just not in faction pvp).
Love it or hate it, in GW2 I can play with any other race. I can play with people of different levels. I can even play with people on different servers (except in rvr).
In Skyrim I could be any race go, anywhere in the world and join any faction (assume I met the req.)
I guess its okay though, because ESo is planned to be a niche game (rvrvr focused). In order to make a profit with the smaller player base its a good thing they didn't spend a ton of money in development....
How do you know? Have you actually AvA'd in this game already? It could be very, very different from all you know.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That's the nature of our industry now. That's what happens when art becomes more a business than a form of creative expression.
Everyone says WoW caters to the lowest common denominator in order to maximize sales, and that's why it was successful. I disagree. WoW released into a market with relatively (compared to today) few consumers. It was their execution of their vision for the game that vaulted them to success. I wish a AAA title would stick to it's guns for once instead of forcing change through fear of losing sales.
At least he brought up a link to show some proof where is your proof of claiming those millions because I dont realy hear much about daoc especially since its subs are in the millions, if it was in the millions people would be talking about it as much as they talk about WoW in almost every website that hs to do with video games. Also PvE mmorpgs have more subscribers than any of the RvR mmorpgs. And even if they are able to get 1/4 of the player fanbase of the elder scrolls series it would still be in the millions which is a lot more than 250k as that posters stats show. And what makes you think they will go the P2P with 15 a month after seeing mmos with IPs like Star Wars and GW2 and pretty much all mmos this generation going the B2P or F2P with in game shops and finding more success out of it considering most of the ES IP fans are on consoles that are more used to microtransactions in games and majority are against monthly subs. There are still more people demanding more PvE than there are people who demand RvR. All you seem to do is insult others and their post and make immature comments but I dont find that surprising from a PvPers. You guys have become so predictable with your whole carebear namecalling thing that doesnt realy hurt no ones feelings. People who loves using the term carebear is prolly a punk in real life.
Your first point is of course correct. However to say that Elder Scrolls players (as was alluded to earlier) are a minority is also pretty wrong. As far as TES having 7 million players becasue x bought y and z, well, That wasn't quite right either. as was posted earlier, Skyrim had 10 million on all platforms at the time of that article.
As far as what this game is being developed as (as was posted earlier) I know full well what it is being developed as. A themepark mmo. That much was clear from when I played it. Others will see this as well. It's a shame but there it is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
We get it. Your crowd is bigger than our crowd and you're going to beat us over the head with your consoles.
Can you not come up with a better argument than game design by mob rule?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED