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Why do high level players always get to make the most money?

gessekai332gessekai332 Member UncommonPosts: 861
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

Why is it that in all most western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything? All it does is alienate new players and makes it super hard for them to actually break into the game. In some eastern mmorpgs that i have played that were really successful, even noobs could make some money to get by because earlier level monsters would drop crafting materials or items that everyone in the game could use, including high level players. Sure the best armor and gear would potentially still only drop of off high levels bosses, but you could allow low level players to participate in the economy too by allowing them giving them a niche in the market only they can fill.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

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Comments

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,507

    The reason for high-level players to make the most money in a level-based game is that if a lower level area offered more money, then high level players would farm it endlessly and ignore the high level content.

    You could (and apparently do!) argue that lower level players should be able to get some stuff that is useful at endgame rather than nothing.  But it will break a lot of things if it's just as good as what level cap players can get in max level content--especially since max level players will probably be able to farm it better than lower level players.

    The real solution is to make games less dependent on loot, but that's a whole different issue.

  • ArkainArkain Member UncommonPosts: 491

    You may want to play WoW, I think that will work for you.

    No, I am not being sarcastic.

    In WoW you can level vary quick, so lots of new players love it.

    image
  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731

    All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs...

    So I guess Iceland isn't in the west, or maybe EVE isn't a MMO?

    Really dude ignorance can be bliss, though I will say this much: Most MMOs reward sheeps and not smart players.

    image
  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs...

    So I guess Iceland isn't in the west, or maybe EVE isn't a MMO?

    Really dude ignorance can be bliss, though I will say this much: Most MMOs reward sheeps and not smart players.

    Did he say only western or all western ? Reading is fun some times.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    The reason for high-level players to make the most money in a level-based game is that if a lower level area offered more money, then high level players would farm it endlessly and ignore the high level content.

    You could (and apparently do!) argue that lower level players should be able to get some stuff that is useful at endgame rather than nothing.  But it will break a lot of things if it's just as good as what level cap players can get in max level content--especially since max level players will probably be able to farm it better than lower level players.

    The real solution is to make games less dependent on loot, but that's a whole different issue.

     /this.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • SentnlSentnl Member Posts: 73
    The real question here is, why does the OP want to stay a low level forever, or is he forced to... Is the OP Peter Pan? What's so wrong with levelling up >.> what are you affraid of?

    I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    It's trickle down economy.  The gear you get is often lower than what you need, so it gets sold to other players.

     

    Problem with this, the ultra-low characters don't have anyone to sell gear to, so they're stuck selling vendor trash to vendors. and tend to be very poor.

     

    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • PsychowPsychow Member Posts: 1,784
    Originally posted by Sentnl
    The real question here is, why does the OP want to stay a low level forever, or is he forced to... Is the OP Peter Pan? What's so wrong with levelling up >.> what are you affraid of?

     

    That's where all the other players are!! Eeeeeek!

  • IsawaIsawa Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs...

    So I guess Iceland isn't in the west, or maybe EVE isn't a MMO?

    Really dude ignorance can be bliss, though I will say this much: Most MMOs reward sheeps and not smart players.

    Did he say only western or all western ? Reading is fun some times.

    Joking?

    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Why is it that in all western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything?...

     

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Why is it that in all western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything? All it does is alienate new players and makes it super hard for them to actually break into the game. In some eastern mmorpgs that i have played that were really successful, even noobs could make some money to get by because earlier level monsters would drop crafting materials or items that everyone in the game could use, including high level players. Sure the best armor and gear would potentially still only drop of off high levels bosses, but you could allow low level players to participate in the economy too by allowing them giving them a niche in the market only they can fill.

    I usually found gathering mats/resources such as lower tier ore to be a quick and easy way for low level players to make decent money.  Speccially in "western" games such as WoW and Lotro.  The reason is that high level players have all that money but sometimes need the lower level resources but can't be bothered with actually gathering it so they will simply buy stacks off of the auction house for leveling crafting for their alts and what-not.  Usually that's the best bet to make quick easy money for a new player on an older game.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • sanshi44sanshi44 Member UncommonPosts: 1,187
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    The reason for high-level players to make the most money in a level-based game is that if a lower level area offered more money, then high level players would farm it endlessly and ignore the high level content.

    You could (and apparently do!) argue that lower level players should be able to get some stuff that is useful at endgame rather than nothing.  But it will break a lot of things if it's just as good as what level cap players can get in max level content--especially since max level players will probably be able to farm it better than lower level players.

    The real solution is to make games less dependent on loot, but that's a whole different issue.

     /this.

    Only saw this trend happen after WoW came out, Everquest you could farm mobs that dropped stuff that was worth money in mid and low lvl spawns. For examples you could be farming spiderling or spider silk and each one solf for 3-5plat each. Spiderling were lvl 1-10 and spiders were lvl 15-30 higher lvl spiders generaly dropped more silk. So higher lvl could farm more of these than lowbies however it still allowed low lvl players to earn some money.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Why is it that in all western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything? All it does is alienate new players and makes it super hard for them to actually break into the game. In some eastern mmorpgs that i have played that were really successful, even noobs could make some money to get by because earlier level monsters would drop crafting materials or items that everyone in the game could use, including high level players. Sure the best armor and gear would potentially still only drop of off high levels bosses, but you could allow low level players to participate in the economy too by allowing them giving them a niche in the market only they can fill.

    It's all part of the illusion of progression. 

     

    Very clever game design, which I believe most MMO gamers post WoW are waking up to. The illusion just isn't the same anymore, once you know the trick.

     

    ask any magician. Once the trick gets spoiled its not the same enjoyment from it.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Member CommonPosts: 1,538

    Why wouldnt high levels make the most money?  Who has more current earnings potential...a middle school student or a PhD?

     

    However in most MMOs, a low level can make good money if they study the economy a little.  The spiderling silk is a good example from EQ.  In Rift you can artifact gather (especially fishing for them).  In EQ2 transmutables are usually a decent source of easy cash.

  • StonemasonStonemason Member UncommonPosts: 26
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Why is it that in all western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything? All it does is alienate new players and makes it super hard for them to actually break into the game. In some eastern mmorpgs that i have played that were really successful, even noobs could make some money to get by because earlier level monsters would drop crafting materials or items that everyone in the game could use, including high level players. Sure the best armor and gear would potentially still only drop of off high levels bosses, but you could allow low level players to participate in the economy too by allowing them giving them a niche in the market only they can fill.

    Mythic did this long ago in DAOC. Many lower lvl players (as well as mid and high lvl players) farmed auralite from the mobs in certain dungeons and either purchased decent leveling gear or sold it on thier CM for a decent amount of coin. A player certainly didn't get rich doing it and it was a repeating grind-fest, but it allowed players to level and adquire a marketable commodity. I personally didn't like this as it totally supported solo play.  IMO solo play (read single player gameplay) has a negative affect on a mmo's sense of a community working and progressing together.

  • gessekai332gessekai332 Member UncommonPosts: 861

    Originally posted by Sentnl
    The real question here is, why does the OP want to stay a low level forever, or is he forced to... Is the OP Peter Pan? What's so wrong with levelling up >.> what are you affraid of?

    i'm one of those people that believes that getting to end game should be the fun part. So i want to be playing the fun part for as long as I can :).

    Originally posted by Dihoru

    All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs...

    So I guess Iceland isn't in the west, or maybe EVE isn't a MMO?

    Really dude ignorance can be bliss, though I will say this much: Most MMOs reward sheeps and not smart players.

    yeah i shouldnt have said all, i will try to edit that out,.

     

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    The reason for high-level players to make the most money in a level-based game is that if a lower level area offered more money, then high level players would farm it endlessly and ignore the high level content.

    You could (and apparently do!) argue that lower level players should be able to get some stuff that is useful at endgame rather than nothing.  But it will break a lot of things if it's just as good as what level cap players can get in max level content--especially since max level players will probably be able to farm it better than lower level players.

    The real solution is to make games less dependent on loot, but that's a whole different issue.

    you could make it work if what you are farming at low level might not necessarily be armor or weapons but maybe ingredients to certain things that all players may have a use for at all levels.

    Originally posted by Betakodo
    Are you by chance a socialist, OP? You have to put in some effort to get the goods. Socialism has no place in game or anywhere, actually.

    where did i say i didnt want to do any work? i am willing to grind my eyeballs out to get my share as much as the next person, I just dont want to be force myself to powerlevel to endgame and not enjoy the rest of the journey just so i can feel like i am actually getting money.

    Originally posted by rodingo

    I usually found gathering mats/resources such as lower tier ore to be a quick and easy way for low level players to make decent money.  Speccially in "western" games such as WoW and Lotro.  The reason is that high level players have all that money but sometimes need the lower level resources but can't be bothered with actually gathering it so they will simply buy stacks off of the auction house for leveling crafting for their alts and what-not.  Usually that's the best bet to make quick easy money for a new player on an older game.

    this is exactly the point i was trying to get across!! Thanks :D

    Originally posted by Stonemason

    Mythic did this long ago in DAOC. Many lower lvl players (as well as mid and high lvl players) farmed auralite from the mobs in certain dungeons and either purchased decent leveling gear or sold it on thier CM for a decent amount of coin. A player certainly didn't get rich doing it and it was a repeating grind-fest, but it allowed players to level and adquire a marketable commodity. I personally didn't like this as it totally supported solo play.  IMO solo play (read single player gameplay) has a negative affect on a mmo's sense of a community working and progressing together.

    while i agree that a full solo play game is detrimental to any mmo community, i do believe that have the option to solo at least once in a while is something nice to do to change things up a bit.

    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    Why wouldnt high levels make the most money?  Who has more current earnings potential...a middle school student or a PhD?

    hahaha, in this day in age a lot of PhD's are actually making less than middle school students because at least getting allowance from your parents is better than being unemployed and in student loan debt.  but thats another story.

     

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    Originally posted by Eluldor
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs....All western MMOs...

    So I guess Iceland isn't in the west, or maybe EVE isn't a MMO?

    Really dude ignorance can be bliss, though I will say this much: Most MMOs reward sheeps and not smart players.

    Did he say only western or all western ? Reading is fun some times.

    Joking?

    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Why is it that in all western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything?...

     Haha. That is funny.

     

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 1,989

     

    I am in agreement with the OP in this much that there is nothing worth while to farm in a game.  Very boring getting pennies and coppers.  

     

    I don't play a game to rush up to end game.  Not my style.  I want every inch of my game to feel fulfilling and I am not likely to stay all the way to end game.  End game usually requires a healthy guild to be worth playing and I find most guilds offensive power plays for egomaniacs and little friend clicks that don't care about you unless you pucker up.  

     

    I don't want "better" drops as I play.  I want more interesting drops.  In other words we should not be able to buy ANYTHING from an npc ANYWHERE.  Not even the damn mounts!!!  Anything of value in a game should be a chest drop.  Give us a reason to go out into the battlefield!  

     

    And also, for gods sake, put a 3 digit limit on the AH!  Game economy does not have to reflect real life.  It's a damn game - it can have a fantasy economy!  

     

    NO PERSONAL SHOPS.  NO BOUND ITEMS!!

     

    [mod edit]



  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Member CommonPosts: 1,538
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

     

    I am in agreement with the OP in this much that there is nothing worth while to farm in a game.  Very boring getting pennies and coppers.  

     

    I don't play a game to rush up to end game.  Not my style.  I want every inch of my game to feel fulfilling and I am not likely to stay all the way to end game.  End game usually requires a healthy guild to be worth playing and I find most guilds offensive power plays for egomaniacs and little friend clicks that don't care about you unless you pucker up.  

     

    I don't want "better" drops as I play.  I want more interesting drops.  In other words we should not be able to buy ANYTHING from an npc ANYWHERE.  Not even the damn mounts!!!  Anything of value in a game should be a chest drop.  Give us a reason to go out into the battlefield!  

     

    And also, for gods sake, put a 3 digit limit on the AH!  Game economy does not have to reflect real life.  It's a damn game - it can have a fantasy economy!  

     

    NO PERSONAL SHOPS.  NO BOUND ITEMS!!

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit] In very few MMOs have I *ever* had an issue getting enough money for what i needed for my current level.  And Im pretty sure if someone really wanted to (and was smart enough) they could take a brand new WoW account, lock the only toon on the account at level 10, and build up to the maximum allowed currency

  • azmundaiazmundai Member UncommonPosts: 1,419

    pretty sure low level AH mules make way more money than all of my various level characters combine.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • gessekai332gessekai332 Member UncommonPosts: 861
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

     

    I am in agreement with the OP in this much that there is nothing worth while to farm in a game.  Very boring getting pennies and coppers.  

     

    I don't play a game to rush up to end game.  Not my style.  I want every inch of my game to feel fulfilling and I am not likely to stay all the way to end game.  End game usually requires a healthy guild to be worth playing and I find most guilds offensive power plays for egomaniacs and little friend clicks that don't care about you unless you pucker up.  

     

    I don't want "better" drops as I play.  I want more interesting drops.  In other words we should not be able to buy ANYTHING from an npc ANYWHERE.  Not even the damn mounts!!!  Anything of value in a game should be a chest drop.  Give us a reason to go out into the battlefield!  

     

    And also, for gods sake, put a 3 digit limit on the AH!  Game economy does not have to reflect real life.  It's a damn game - it can have a fantasy economy!  

     

    NO PERSONAL SHOPS.  NO BOUND ITEMS!!

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

      In very few MMOs have I *ever* had an issue getting enough money for what i needed for my current level.  And Im pretty sure if someone really wanted to (and was smart enough) they could take a brand new WoW account, lock the only toon on the account at level 10, and build up to the maximum allowed currency

    if someone really wanted to and was smart enough they could cure cancer. honestly if you play any real mmorpg its extremely hard to become truly at top level in terms of money. ultra hardcore mmo players dont live in their parents basement and fail out of college for no reason. 

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,043

    LotRO had a somewhat effective means of doing this. You needed or could at least use material from tier 3 to tier 7 to grand master your guilded craft. So A lower level character could farm Dwarf or Platinum and AH it to higher level players for their guild seals. Inflation ihas really hurt LotRO though and while you only truly need around 50 gold to cap out your characters inventory and set up a large house, people have upwards of a thousand gold in the game.

    EVE is one of the better examples of first in is best. Trit and Veldspar is easy to mine and abundant. It's also always in demand in huge volume. Sadly the trouble with EVE is Plex forces CCP to throttle income and mining Veld is a very boring and time consuming thing to do without multiple accounts or a macro/ macro like time frame of mining.

    SWG had a solid system as well. Naboo wooly was an Advanced material so while Yavinian was great, you always needed that starter planet material to make stuff. The key is to not put everything in tiers and levels. They had the RnG stat system to do that. No game since has touched dynamic resources like they did.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Originally posted by Sentnl
    The real question here is, why does the OP want to stay a low level forever, or is he forced to... Is the OP Peter Pan? What's so wrong with levelling up >.> what are you affraid of?

    Personally, in a level based mmo i dont expect to stay low level for ever, its basically impossible but i try to stay low as long as possible. I havent seen a fun "end game" in any themepark mmo. I like GW2 because of the level downscale so even if im stronger i can still die at low level areas.
    Theres nothing for me to do at level cap if all the devs add is raids and pvp. Rinse and repeat. I dont do that.

     

    I would prefer devs just stop making level / gear based mmos and actually expand the game horizontally.





  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by Sentnl
    The real question here is, why does the OP want to stay a low level forever, or is he forced to... Is the OP Peter Pan? What's so wrong with levelling up >.> what are you affraid of?

    Personally, in a level based mmo i dont expect to stay low level for ever, its basically impossible but i try to stay low as long as possible. I havent seen a fun "end game" in any themepark mmo. I like GW2 because of the level downscale so even if im stronger i can still die at low level areas.
    Theres nothing for me to do at level cap if all the devs add is raids and pvp. Rinse and repeat. I dont do that.

     

    I would prefer devs just stop making level / gear based mmos and actually expand the game horizontally.

    lol i like that, "there's nothing for me to do at level cap if all the devs add is raids and pvp" bet you're one of those people who bitch and moan about nothing to do when you don't even do all the things there is to do in a game.

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  • doho7744doho7744 Member Posts: 31
    Originally posted by gessekai332

    Why is it that in all most western mmorpgs only high level players get to fight monsters that drop loot that are actually worth anything? All it does is alienate new players and makes it super hard for them to actually break into the game. In some eastern mmorpgs that i have played that were really successful, even noobs could make some money to get by because earlier level monsters would drop crafting materials or items that everyone in the game could use, including high level players. Sure the best armor and gear would potentially still only drop of off high levels bosses, but you could allow low level players to participate in the economy too by allowing them giving them a niche in the market only they can fill.

    Well the biggest MMO in the west or east does have monsters that drop crafting mats. They drop magic items that can be dis-enchanted, cloth and rares.

    Also the reason high levels need more money is because the money sinks, repairs, potions for raids, mounts, etc cost way more at that level.

    I guess the real question is why are you complaining about something that is not a problem instead of asking how you can make money in whatever game it is that is so "unfair" to you?

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Member CommonPosts: 1,538
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

     

    I am in agreement with the OP in this much that there is nothing worth while to farm in a game.  Very boring getting pennies and coppers.  

     

    I don't play a game to rush up to end game.  Not my style.  I want every inch of my game to feel fulfilling and I am not likely to stay all the way to end game.  End game usually requires a healthy guild to be worth playing and I find most guilds offensive power plays for egomaniacs and little friend clicks that don't care about you unless you pucker up.  

     

    I don't want "better" drops as I play.  I want more interesting drops.  In other words we should not be able to buy ANYTHING from an npc ANYWHERE.  Not even the damn mounts!!!  Anything of value in a game should be a chest drop.  Give us a reason to go out into the battlefield!  

     

    And also, for gods sake, put a 3 digit limit on the AH!  Game economy does not have to reflect real life.  It's a damn game - it can have a fantasy economy!  

     

    NO PERSONAL SHOPS.  NO BOUND ITEMS!!

     

    PS: Stop trolling the OP, it is not making you look intelligent.  Just makes you look like an ass.

    I dont see a single person 'trolling' him or looking like an ass.  In very few MMOs have I *ever* had an issue getting enough money for what i needed for my current level.  And Im pretty sure if someone really wanted to (and was smart enough) they could take a brand new WoW account, lock the only toon on the account at level 10, and build up to the maximum allowed currency

    if someone really wanted to and was smart enough they could cure cancer. honestly if you play any real mmorpg its extremely hard to become truly at top level in terms of money. ultra hardcore mmo players dont live in their parents basement and fail out of college for no reason. 

    So what you really want is to be able to get rich at level 5 with minimal effort?  Thats just asinine.

    As has been said, most MMOs offer oppurtunity for lower levels to earn money.  Whatever game caused you to get so upset probably has a way too.  it might not be exciting, but that doesnt mean it can't be done.

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