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Greed Monger switches back to Unity and Forums get Removed!
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So you are suing now? /boggle SO MUCH double talk.
I never said I was angry, I actually think the whole thing is funny. On your main point, Jason specifically mentioned legal terms and sited examples which IMPLIES legal action. If I send you a picture of you stealing money and links to people who got fired over stealing money but I say I will not report you, what am I implying? I did not see what Jason sent to MMORPG so I can not speculate on if he did indeed threaten legal action. I can only take Jasons word in the post above where he SPECIFICALLY mentioned legal actions like defamation and slander, included links to cases but then said he never threaten legal action. It is just like YOU said in a previous post, you can NOT mention these things and NOT imply something. So Jason saying he did not mention legal action is a moot point considering the other things he DID indeed mention.
-You are so corrrect about "all he has to do" (creating a good, playable game) and that is why most just ignore it- Look at Cleve Blakemore (for an example of a real, known programmer in the industry)- he is called Anti-semite, crazy, a scam artist, etc, etc and was even trolled in the GAME JA2 who based a character on him.
-This is why real develpoers just ignore it and prove it by making a functional game- This leads me to believe Appleton cannot do this (and knows it) and need the PR train NOW while he milks more money off of anyopne he can.
-He has already changed everything said about the initial game (things he argued about) including taking the money of people who thought they were playing a F2P game he starting chaniging the terms. He argued wioth people about the initial engine switch and he really comes off as a conman... And his actions lead me to sincerly feel this game is going nowhere and IS a scam.
-He has gotten over double the intial money needed for hi to make this awesome game- Lets see how this turns out.
-Grabbing popcorn and getting ready for an interesting bunch of drama and reading material.
-If I am lucky we willl see Illuminati lawyers popping up soon. (maybe Vampires too-)
Seriously... This guy keeps digging himself a hole. How many posts does he say he has to 'draw a line', 'it's the principle', 'has to set the record straight'. Grow up...
Do your job, do it well. If you don't, you fail and move on.
(Warning: Extremely boring legal stuff to follow, you have been warned).
I understand Mr. Appleton's concern about his reputation and his desire to sue for libel if the offending material is not removed. While this may seem like a prudent course of action, I would draw his attention to the legal precedence set in US courts. In particular to Cubby, Inc vs. CompuServe, Inc. and Zeran vs. American Online. Both cases laid the foundation for current legal understanding concerning libel and forums. The Courts have established that sites that host forums are not liable for libelous content provided they did not know, or should have known of the defamatory nature of the content. In short: sites like MMORPG.com are treated as distributors of content and thus not held liable for the material that is posted. If Mr. Appleton wishes to pursue legal action, his cause is with the publisher (aka the poster) and not the hosting site.
Now another court case (Stratton Oakmont vs. Prodigy), did say the hosting site was liable for libel as their TOS made it clear they reserved the right to edit posts. The offended party successfully argued that due to the editing, the hosting site was acting not as a distributor but as a publisher and was thus responsible for the content. However, this case was never appealed to a higher court which may very well have overturned the lower courts decision and the whole point was mute by the introduction of section 230 of the Communications Decency Act that which basically states hosting sites are distributors and as such, are not considered publishers of and cannot be held liable on account of “good-faith” efforts to filter objectionable content.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I have to admit, I don’t quite understand what 234 is trying to do except blindly defend Jason. Back in Post #126 he/she agrees that providing the information about legal actions DID come off as a threat and we can only GUESS what happened (see below). Then in post #139 234 says SPECIFICALLY that Jason stated he never intended to take legal action. 234 already stated just providing the information about legal cases came off as a threat but then he/she changes course and suddenly defends Jason saying he did NOT threaten legal action. Then he/she continues the new course in Post #144 saying no threat is implied.
Seriously, how can you go from saying “To properly inform comes off as a threat.” And then say “No threat is implied if MMORPG took time to read the articles.” Can you please make up your mind and stick with it?
Post #126
“That's a two-edged sword, which is my point. To properly inform comes off as a threat. That's exactly what happened. Noone except Jason knows his true intentions. The rest of us can only guess.”
Post# 139
Jason stated that he never intended to take legal action against MMORPG.com. So you are actually angry over something Jason claimed he didn't do.
Post# 144
No threat is implied if MMORPG took time to read the articles. So you are either assuming that Jason is assuming that MMORPG is stupid or you are assuming that MMORPG is stupid.
Note: I mean no disrespect for calling 234 a he/she. The forum name (234) used does not imply gender so I used a term that did not imply gender. I did not want to assume 234 is a male and then find out she was insulted and is really a female. Just trying to be politically correct.
This, basically.
If you're a game developer, then you're going to get attacked by forum trolls, whether you deserve it or not. If you try to shut down criticism, you'll get even more of it. If that's a problem for you in your day job, then you need to choose between either keeping your day job or being a game developer.
It doesn't matter whether you think it should be that way. It's reality, and you need to deal with it.
I feel for the developers. It can be a real eye opener when displaying your hard work for the first time to the public.
How many people do we know personally who have drawn pictures, written stories, and made computer games but never published any of them. Its definately scary to have your game, and worse, your personal reputation openly destroyed by a handful of vocal users.
In my own case, when I hosted my first small online game over 10 years ago, I became almost addicted to reading and pruning negative comments about my game. It was totally unhealthy the time I spent on the forums and I will never host my own forum ever again. Its too tempting and my time was much better spent on making the game more fun.
Anyhow, I wish the devs well on their creation and I hope they dont fall into the PR spin doctoring. I have no doubt that if you make a great game, your reputation will sky rocket.
-Werellama
(was 'blitzvf' which was too boring for what im working on )
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
This.
Im starting to wonder( if as someone else in this thread stated you are/were a MMA promoter) if you are not just trying to pump up some publicity for your game. In true Vince McMahon WWE style. Hey, any publicity is good publicity right? This game went from no one talking about it to a huge thread that other sites are linking to. From obsucrity to infamy in just a few days.
If this is your goal I would reccomend that you rethink this course of action. No one is talking about your game they are talking about you and with every post you make it just gets worse and worse. You say you want people to stop and yet everything you post screams just the opposite.
Now you have reached the point where you are talking about the MMORPG.com community. You know that will get this thread locked and I'm starting to wonder how that plays in to your propaganda plan.
The Communications Decency act basically equates Mogus' threat (intentional or not) with the gravity of suing a telephone carrier for the content of a phone call.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Succint and clearer explanation than my boring ramble...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I don't know the history here, but by his own wording this issue is with those attacking his personal credibility/honesty, etc... If he works in financing, I don't think the illusion that you're a scam artist will help you all that much. This isn't about the game it seems, as he said a few posts above you, attack the game all you want.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People ask me why I come to this site everyday. This thread sure shows exactly why I do. Taking Greed Monger off the site-90k. People sticking up for the developer-90k, Developer responces-PRICELESS!
I LOVE THIS SITE FOR MY GAMING NEWS!!!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
HAHAHA...
I thought I would never see a company that more deserved public disdain than StarVault but I have been proven wrong! I think I am going to have to do some research on this company/game and I just may have found a new hobby/reason to visit a variety of public forums and speak THRUTH.
I assure you... I am very good at what I do (just ask StarVault). Should you ever find a factual error in any of my posts feel free to point it out and I will correct such errors. I look forward to a long and enjoyable relationship going forward!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
+1 for entertainment value
He doesn't have a case against anyone. He's backed into a corner, scared and lashing out. If he wants to sue the person who has done the most financial damage to him, he should sue himself.
Consume. Be silent. Die.
You know, lets pause here for a sec.. Because you know what? It doesn't matter who you are, how long you've been a part of the community, what games you have played..
Tthis man has this part correct..
But I feel as if this encompasses the internet as a whole, being pratically "invisible" in another world gives everyone a sense of rebellion.. The right to burn down or take a swing at everything they don't like or agree with.. These games are a small part of that, many other sites wage war on heavier issues that involve everything we hold true to every day life..
If you make a post or thread speaking about how cool you think an upcomming game will be, you are not usually met with like minded common interests.. Often you are met with an expedite dagger, and instead of feeling as a member amongst something you are thrust into this "outsider" space where you are having to defend yourself more than socialize about the things you may have in common with the others..
I used to think that the 'renowned' Call of Duty chat on XBox Live was a "feature" specific to XBox Live, but as I look around any game, any forum any chat on the net I see that, this is who we have become. This is the internet of the 21st century and it will not change..
Seriously? You think someone in their 70s is going to google your name and find some thread accusing you of being a scam artist and pull their request?
Did it not dawn on you that this person in their 70s would likely have pulled their request as soon as they realized you put on a cape, called yourself "Mogus" and spent your evenings trolling gaming forums?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
While everyone no doubt has different opinions on this. Implied threats as mister appleton has done is different in my Book then Courtesy.
Its pretty clear to me Mr Appleton is trying strongearm tactics to try and get MMORPG.COM to bow to his views and censure any/all negative comments. I imagine if Mr Appleton spent more time on getting Greedmonger worker then reading thread on other sites and researching deflamation cases the game would be a bit further along.
In the end I think Bill did the right thing. The game what there is of it, is not worth the Drama Mr appleton is creating himself. Sometimes Game devs have to take the good with the bad expecially when they use outside sites like MMORPG.COM to promote their game and get money from potential players .
I wish MR Appleton good luck with his game, but i also hope he learns a few things from this like he needs to develope a thicker skin if he's to survive. Every game thats every been made (and several that never made it that far) to include WoW itself have had trolls and negative comments. Using time and resources better spent developing a game on trying to find and squelch most negative posts/threads on a game is simply IMO a waste.
A million post saying a game is bad does not make a game bad or a failure its the developers that do that. A million posts stating a game is good because only good things are allowed to be said Does not make a game good. Once again its the Devs in the end that do that.
You forget about Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment.
Ah Mr Appletons implied threats. ie We aren't suing, but don't worry when we do sue it won't cost us much as we are close friends with our lawyer!
Yet more of the Dance by Mr Appletons
Between post #139 and post #144 I actually read the links provided and that changed my opinion.
It is one thing to be a scam artist in business, an entirely different one to simply have odd behaviour. Only the former should be pertinent to other businesses.
You used the threat of a lawsuit to remove discussions of your game - you threatened MMORPG.com - you guys are the lowest of the low. Glad we know the truth about your company and this game now, because we players can stop people from supporting you. Don't like it - try suing me.