Agreed. I think a significant amount of DAoCers will recall the PvE being a big part of what made the game great. I was skeptical about CU when I read that it was basically RvR only, but I backed anyway because it sounds like it could be a great game in its own right. But still, I doubt the appeal is there for many, if not most, ex-DAoCers. And, this is coming from a Mordred player.
You have tens of thousands of people still subscribing to DAOC and WAR. I doubt all these people are paying for the PvE at this point particularly with how easy stuff like artifacts and MLS are these days. Plus there are all the others playing DAOC unofficial servers and people like me who still like DAOC but just feel like I have given EA enough money so won't subscribe anymore. If CU actually funds, having a viable subscriber base should not be a problem.
Agreed. I think a significant amount of DAoCers will recall the PvE being a big part of what made the game great. I was skeptical about CU when I read that it was basically RvR only, but I backed anyway because it sounds like it could be a great game in its own right. But still, I doubt the appeal is there for many, if not most, ex-DAoCers. And, this is coming from a Mordred player.
You have tens of thousands of people still subscribing to DAOC and WAR. I doubt all these people are paying for the PvE at this point particularly with how easy stuff like artifacts and MLS are these days. Plus there are all the others playing DAOC unofficial servers and people like me who still like DAOC but just feel like I have given EA enough money so won't subscribe anymore. If CU actually funds, having a viable subscriber base should not be a problem.
I'm sorry but your wrong, go on Ywain or Warhammer and see for yourself, the majority (or at least a large proportion) of players can still be found in the pve zones or lower tier battlegrounds. Only a small percentage are found regularly in the top level rvr areas.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I think the more troubling thing here is that there are just over 7k backers at about the mid-way point. I would've thought there would be more excitment from the DAoC players and people looking for better MMO PvP.
I really hope this game makes it. Mark has some great ideas and the tech they developing is top notch. Major kudos to Andrew and the rest of the devs for their work on that.
The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players, clearly a pvp only game does not appeal to many of those players.
You also need to remember a lot of ex-DAoC players aren't particularly fond of Mark Jacobs.
Thankfully CU isn't targeting DAoC players only so there ins some hope for the game.
I remember an amazing pvp concept game some years back called Dragon Empires which proved that even during a golden era for mmorpg a a pvp centric mmorpg was not a popular thing. CU seems to be simply confirming what most people already know, the pvp population of mmorpg a is minimal.
The real question is how well will a niche KS project do.
It's very odd that PvP is not as popular in the MMO space as it in in the shooter area. Shooters pretty much live or die base on how well they play on Xbox live or online in general. Purely online shooters, like Dust 514, are becoming more and more popular.
It's been established that most pvp players like skill based games, and FPS are skill based whereas mmos are not.
Its an old argument but there really is little skill in any pvp mmorpg compared to the top FPS.
Also games like DOTA have further dwindled the mmo pvp pool.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Also games like DOTA have further dwindled the mmo pvp pool.
Personally, I think the effect MOBAs have had on players that enjoy or used to enjoy PvP in mmos is underrated by many.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I think the more troubling thing here is that there are just over 7k backers at about the mid-way point. I would've thought there would be more excitment from the DAoC players and people looking for better MMO PvP.
I really hope this game makes it. Mark has some great ideas and the tech they developing is top notch. Major kudos to Andrew and the rest of the devs for their work on that.
The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players, clearly a pvp only game does not appeal to many of those players.
You also need to remember a lot of ex-DAoC players aren't particularly fond of Mark Jacobs.
Thankfully CU isn't targeting DAoC players only so there ins some hope for the game.
I remember an amazing pvp concept game some years back called Dragon Empires which proved that even during a golden era for mmorpg a a pvp centric mmorpg was not a popular thing. CU seems to be simply confirming what most people already know, the pvp population of mmorpg a is minimal.
The real question is how well will a niche KS project do.
It's very odd that PvP is not as popular in the MMO space as it in in the shooter area. Shooters pretty much live or die base on how well they play on Xbox live or online in general. Purely online shooters, like Dust 514, are becoming more and more popular.
It's been established that most pvp players like skill based games, and FPS are skill based whereas mmos are not.
Its an old argument but there really is little skill in any pvp mmorpg compared to the top FPS.
Also games like DOTA have further dwindled the mmo pvp pool.
It is rather silly to claim that PvP in MMORPGs is not skill-based or that there is little skill involved. It is true that gear and levels factor in to an extent, particularly when the disparity is large, but what about when players are geared and leveled evenly? What separates them then? A few lucky rolls can help, but at that point is is largely a matter of skill. It is not as though the server flips a coin and randomly chooses a victor; skill decides it. The skill of knowing your class, know the other classes, and being able to work as a team, as well as the actual mechanical skill of maneuvering and using your abilities properly.
A FPS does have the "advantage" of being as close to 100% skill-based as possible as there are no levels or special gear to speak of but, like I said, those factors diminish and become unimportant in MMORPGs, too, when you are properly matched.
The times where I have been on teams that are outgeared, outnumbered, and/or outleveled and yet still won are too many to count; of course, I have also been on teams that have those advantages and lost. Each time it was due to either my team or the other team utilizing superior skill and strategy.
I think the more troubling thing here is that there are just over 7k backers at about the mid-way point. I would've thought there would be more excitment from the DAoC players and people looking for better MMO PvP.
I really hope this game makes it. Mark has some great ideas and the tech they developing is top notch. Major kudos to Andrew and the rest of the devs for their work on that.
The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players, clearly a pvp only game does not appeal to many of those players.
You also need to remember a lot of ex-DAoC players aren't particularly fond of Mark Jacobs.
Thankfully CU isn't targeting DAoC players only so there ins some hope for the game.
I remember an amazing pvp concept game some years back called Dragon Empires which proved that even during a golden era for mmorpg a a pvp centric mmorpg was not a popular thing. CU seems to be simply confirming what most people already know, the pvp population of mmorpg a is minimal.
The real question is how well will a niche KS project do.
It's very odd that PvP is not as popular in the MMO space as it in in the shooter area. Shooters pretty much live or die base on how well they play on Xbox live or online in general. Purely online shooters, like Dust 514, are becoming more and more popular.
It's been established that most pvp players like skill based games, and FPS are skill based whereas mmos are not.
Its an old argument but there really is little skill in any pvp mmorpg compared to the top FPS.
Also games like DOTA have further dwindled the mmo pvp pool.
It is rather silly to claim that PvP in MMORPGs is not skill-based or that there is little skill involved. It is true that gear and levels factor in to an extent, particularly when the disparity is large, but what about when players are geared and leveled evenly? What separates them then? A few lucky rolls can help, but at that point is is largely a matter of skill. It is not as though the server flips a coin and randomly chooses a victor; skill decides it. The skill of knowing your class, know the other classes, and being able to work as a team, as well as the actual mechanical skill of maneuvering and using your abilities properly.
A FPS does have the "advantage" of being as close to 100% skill-based as possible as there are no levels or special gear to speak of but, like I said, those factors diminish and become unimportant in MMORPGs, too, when you are properly matched.
The times where I have been on teams that are outgeared, outnumbered, and/or outleveled and yet still won are too many to count; of course, I have also been on teams that have those advantages and lost. Each time it was due to either my team or the other team utilizing superior skill and strategy.
It is rather silly to claim that PVP in MMO's is largely skill based.
Look at FPS games, you have to aim, if your aim is good, you hit your target, they die, you live. The only thing that can really interfere with that scenario is lag, yours, and your opponents.
Look at MMO's, you have abilities that have a lower and an upper damage range, you have crit chance, and if it crits, how much it crits for, all of which are controlled not by your skill, but RNG (or luck).
How is that skill based? most MMOs you dont even have to aim, its tab targetting, auto lock on BS.
Even if you have two players, both the same class, both the exact same build, exact same equipment, and they duel each other, RNG will play a large role in who wins due to damage done/taken, regardless of so called skill level of the players themselves.
Sure, you could argue that there is some skill involved in creating a build (I would say that is down to knowledge more than skill, but to each their own), unless of course you are one of the hundreds of thousands of players that just go to the web site of choice for the cookie cutter build of the month.
Not to mention that some class' in an MMO are just better for PVP than other class' in the same MMO.....
But if you want to think that your character beating another players character in an MMO means you have mad skills, go for it.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
I think the more troubling thing here is that there are just over 7k backers at about the mid-way point. I would've thought there would be more excitment from the DAoC players and people looking for better MMO PvP.
I really hope this game makes it. Mark has some great ideas and the tech they developing is top notch. Major kudos to Andrew and the rest of the devs for their work on that.
The vast majority of DAoC players were primarily pve players, clearly a pvp only game does not appeal to many of those players.
You also need to remember a lot of ex-DAoC players aren't particularly fond of Mark Jacobs.
Thankfully CU isn't targeting DAoC players only so there ins some hope for the game.
I remember an amazing pvp concept game some years back called Dragon Empires which proved that even during a golden era for mmorpg a a pvp centric mmorpg was not a popular thing. CU seems to be simply confirming what most people already know, the pvp population of mmorpg a is minimal.
The real question is how well will a niche KS project do.
It's very odd that PvP is not as popular in the MMO space as it in in the shooter area. Shooters pretty much live or die base on how well they play on Xbox live or online in general. Purely online shooters, like Dust 514, are becoming more and more popular.
It's been established that most pvp players like skill based games, and FPS are skill based whereas mmos are not.
Its an old argument but there really is little skill in any pvp mmorpg compared to the top FPS.
Also games like DOTA have further dwindled the mmo pvp pool.
It is rather silly to claim that PvP in MMORPGs is not skill-based or that there is little skill involved. It is true that gear and levels factor in to an extent, particularly when the disparity is large, but what about when players are geared and leveled evenly? What separates them then? A few lucky rolls can help, but at that point is is largely a matter of skill. It is not as though the server flips a coin and randomly chooses a victor; skill decides it. The skill of knowing your class, know the other classes, and being able to work as a team, as well as the actual mechanical skill of maneuvering and using your abilities properly.
A FPS does have the "advantage" of being as close to 100% skill-based as possible as there are no levels or special gear to speak of but, like I said, those factors diminish and become unimportant in MMORPGs, too, when you are properly matched.
The times where I have been on teams that are outgeared, outnumbered, and/or outleveled and yet still won are too many to count; of course, I have also been on teams that have those advantages and lost. Each time it was due to either my team or the other team utilizing superior skill and strategy.
It is rather silly to claim that PVP in MMO's is largely skill based.
Look at FPS games, you have to aim, if your aim is good, you hit your target, they die, you live. The only thing that can really interfere with that scenario is lag, yours, and your opponents.
Not true. Yes, getting the first shot in Call of Duty does generally mean you will win the engangement, but in games like Halo, this is most definitely not the case. A better player can still win an engagement in Halo, especially Halo 3, if they respond to the situation correctly. That's what having a shield does for you.
Look at MMO's, you have abilities that have a lower and an upper damage range, you have crit chance, and if it crits, how much it crits for, all of which are controlled not by your skill, but RNG (or luck).
How is that skill based? most MMOs you dont even have to aim, its tab targetting, auto lock on BS.
Even if you have two players, both the same class, both the exact same build, exact same equipment, and they duel each other, RNG will play a large role in who wins due to damage done/taken, regardless of so called skill level of the players themselves.
Sure, you could argue that there is some skill involved in creating a build (I would say that is down to knowledge more than skill, but to each their own), unless of course you are one of the hundreds of thousands of players that just go to the web site of choice for the cookie cutter build of the month.
Not to mention that some class' in an MMO are just better for PVP than other class' in the same MMO.....
But if you want to think that your character beating another players character in an MMO means you have mad skills, go for it.
Skill in an RPG definitely comes from knowing how to build and play your class. Doing the correct skill rotation, saving your emergency skills for the right moment, and LoSing is all part of skill and experience. This is why people can be "bad" at playing MMOs. We see these people all the time in PUGs.
They need like 55k a day from now until Kickstarter ends. Highly doubt this will be funded. They will need a small miracle. The lack of amount of backers which is hurting them unfortunately.
Originally posted by Normandy7 They need like 55k a day from now until Kickstarter ends. Highly doubt this will be funded. They will need a small miracle. The lack of amount of backers which is hurting them unfortunately.
It looks like a big splurge of new last minute money will be required, with the higher than normal average spend per backer so far there might not be much wiggle room there.
really liked update #19, rarely do i see devs speak like this.. new race looks pretty amazing:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
One of the biggest hurdles for Camelot Unchained is that there are very few small backers which are essential to having a successful game. If people are not willing to put down $25/$30 + monthly fee to play the game, there isn't going to be anyone for the larger backers to play with on release.
Originally posted by ice-vortex One of the biggest hurdles for Camelot Unchained is that there are very few small backers which are essential to having a successful game. If people are not willing to put down $25/$30 + monthly fee to play the game, there isn't going to be anyone for the larger backers to play with on release.
There's a big difference in plopping money down on a concept 2+ years from release and subscribing on release. One can only guess at what happens between now and then and how that translates to initial subscribers, but if the KS gets around 15K backers, I think 10x that for initial subs is being conservative.
The newsletter telling fence sitters to get off their butts and donate appears to have worked for a day as yesterday came in at $19K and today is off to a faster start too. Hopefully the new momentum can be sustained or even increased going forward. The days are starting to run out on this, and we can't count on a $600,000+ last day to save it. It's going to have to make up some ground before May 1 too.
It definitely got me to finally remember to go and donate. I got the $150.00 opton to get two copies of the game, one for me and one for the wifey. Like so many we're former Daoc players hoping that Jacobs can catch lightning in a bottle twice.
For people worried about the lull in pledges lately, I encourage you to go to kickstarter.com, and browse the area of successful GAME kickstarters.
Then go pull up EACH ONE on kicktraq, and look at the graphs of the pledges over the entire projects.
Almost all of them follow a trend like this. BIG surges at beginning and end, with lull in middle.
We are in that lull right now, which is why all the haters/trollers are using that opportunity to bang their war drums about being right and pointing and laughing at us haha. But if they looked at any data, you'd see that actually for 2 weeks to go, at over 60% funded, CU is doing really well. I mean the road to 2 M will still be stressful, and tense, and nerve wracking, but WELL within the realm of possibility still. Could easily still hit stretch goals, much less base goal.
Graphs like this should encourage you though (and I checked half a dozen graphs, I didn't just grab a random one that fit my assumption). A LOT of them looked like this.
Anyway, take heart, be calm, and just keep talking to as many people as you can to inform and encourage more backers.
I've been informing/talking about it on several past guild forums, and I think just by starting the conversations, its added more backers.
I wouldn't mind adding some of my funds to the pile required to start this game. It definitely looks interesting enough to me that I would like to give them the chance to deliver. I've never used kickstarter before, so here is my question: what happens with your money if the kickstarter fails? The answer to that would factor into the size of the package I would buy. The kickstarter website says it's up to the receiver of the money to decide if a refund is in order or not, but I haven't seen anything on it for CU.
sry i did not find a thread that is closer to this topic. I wanna quickly add that the "first introduction video" on the CU KS website is slightly updated. (St´rm artwork and eventually other stuff i havent seen watching it again)
Originally posted by ChaulsinNL I wouldn't mind adding some of my funds to the pile required to start this game. It definitely looks interesting enough to me that I would like to give them the chance to deliver. I've never used kickstarter before, so here is my question: what happens with your money if the kickstarter fails? The answer to that would factor into the size of the package I would buy. The kickstarter website says it's up to the receiver of the money to decide if a refund is in order or not, but I haven't seen anything on it for CU.
You're funds aren't taken until after the end of a sucessful campaign. If it doesn't meet the goal you aren't ever charged. If it does make the goal you are charged at the end (May 2).
The only way you could lose your money is if it meets its goal and then some time between the end of the succesful campaign and game release the company fails and doesn't make the game. I would consider this a very small proabability considering MJ is putting in his money and has additional investors who are putting their hats in the ring if the kickstarter funds.
Comments
You have tens of thousands of people still subscribing to DAOC and WAR. I doubt all these people are paying for the PvE at this point particularly with how easy stuff like artifacts and MLS are these days. Plus there are all the others playing DAOC unofficial servers and people like me who still like DAOC but just feel like I have given EA enough money so won't subscribe anymore. If CU actually funds, having a viable subscriber base should not be a problem.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I'm sorry but your wrong, go on Ywain or Warhammer and see for yourself, the majority (or at least a large proportion) of players can still be found in the pve zones or lower tier battlegrounds. Only a small percentage are found regularly in the top level rvr areas.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
It's been established that most pvp players like skill based games, and FPS are skill based whereas mmos are not.
Its an old argument but there really is little skill in any pvp mmorpg compared to the top FPS.
Also games like DOTA have further dwindled the mmo pvp pool.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Personally, I think the effect MOBAs have had on players that enjoy or used to enjoy PvP in mmos is underrated by many.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It is rather silly to claim that PvP in MMORPGs is not skill-based or that there is little skill involved. It is true that gear and levels factor in to an extent, particularly when the disparity is large, but what about when players are geared and leveled evenly? What separates them then? A few lucky rolls can help, but at that point is is largely a matter of skill. It is not as though the server flips a coin and randomly chooses a victor; skill decides it. The skill of knowing your class, know the other classes, and being able to work as a team, as well as the actual mechanical skill of maneuvering and using your abilities properly.
A FPS does have the "advantage" of being as close to 100% skill-based as possible as there are no levels or special gear to speak of but, like I said, those factors diminish and become unimportant in MMORPGs, too, when you are properly matched.
The times where I have been on teams that are outgeared, outnumbered, and/or outleveled and yet still won are too many to count; of course, I have also been on teams that have those advantages and lost. Each time it was due to either my team or the other team utilizing superior skill and strategy.
It is rather silly to claim that PVP in MMO's is largely skill based.
Look at FPS games, you have to aim, if your aim is good, you hit your target, they die, you live. The only thing that can really interfere with that scenario is lag, yours, and your opponents.
Look at MMO's, you have abilities that have a lower and an upper damage range, you have crit chance, and if it crits, how much it crits for, all of which are controlled not by your skill, but RNG (or luck).
How is that skill based? most MMOs you dont even have to aim, its tab targetting, auto lock on BS.
Even if you have two players, both the same class, both the exact same build, exact same equipment, and they duel each other, RNG will play a large role in who wins due to damage done/taken, regardless of so called skill level of the players themselves.
Sure, you could argue that there is some skill involved in creating a build (I would say that is down to knowledge more than skill, but to each their own), unless of course you are one of the hundreds of thousands of players that just go to the web site of choice for the cookie cutter build of the month.
Not to mention that some class' in an MMO are just better for PVP than other class' in the same MMO.....
But if you want to think that your character beating another players character in an MMO means you have mad skills, go for it.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
It looks like a big splurge of new last minute money will be required, with the higher than normal average spend per backer so far there might not be much wiggle room there.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There's a big difference in plopping money down on a concept 2+ years from release and subscribing on release. One can only guess at what happens between now and then and how that translates to initial subscribers, but if the KS gets around 15K backers, I think 10x that for initial subs is being conservative.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
http://cu-additional-pledge.herokuapp.com/
"This chart is calculating how much additional pledge amount is required per backer in order for the project to fund"
all credits go to "SurgioClemente"
No chance to fund this....
Lets keep our great memorys of daoc in our hearts and dont let them be destroyed by this greedy clone,
Step in the arena and break the wall down
How is this greedy?
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
Kickstarter doesn't allow it. If you or someone you know seriously wants to donate that much, just email Mark and he will work something out.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
For people worried about the lull in pledges lately, I encourage you to go to kickstarter.com, and browse the area of successful GAME kickstarters.
Then go pull up EACH ONE on kicktraq, and look at the graphs of the pledges over the entire projects.
Almost all of them follow a trend like this. BIG surges at beginning and end, with lull in middle.
We are in that lull right now, which is why all the haters/trollers are using that opportunity to bang their war drums about being right and pointing and laughing at us haha. But if they looked at any data, you'd see that actually for 2 weeks to go, at over 60% funded, CU is doing really well. I mean the road to 2 M will still be stressful, and tense, and nerve wracking, but WELL within the realm of possibility still. Could easily still hit stretch goals, much less base goal.
Graphs like this should encourage you though (and I checked half a dozen graphs, I didn't just grab a random one that fit my assumption). A LOT of them looked like this.
Anyway, take heart, be calm, and just keep talking to as many people as you can to inform and encourage more backers.
I've been informing/talking about it on several past guild forums, and I think just by starting the conversations, its added more backers.
Let's get 'er done!
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
You're funds aren't taken until after the end of a sucessful campaign. If it doesn't meet the goal you aren't ever charged. If it does make the goal you are charged at the end (May 2).
The only way you could lose your money is if it meets its goal and then some time between the end of the succesful campaign and game release the company fails and doesn't make the game. I would consider this a very small proabability considering MJ is putting in his money and has additional investors who are putting their hats in the ring if the kickstarter funds.