Exactly why I said they should have put more thought into the tiers from beginning. We're extremely top heavy, they needed to make the lower tiers more attractive
I think MJ has said that one of the reasons of doing the KS was to gauge the interest of gamers to this game. I don't think it is all about the money TBH.
Even if this game does meet the 2mil goal, I really dont think the interest is going to be there for the game by judging the number of backers. If I were MJ, I would be worried about the lack of interest from the "mainsteam" gamers.
I think MJ has said that one of the reasons of doing the KS was to gauge the interest of gamers to this game. I don't think it is all about the money TBH.
Even if this game does meet the 2mil goal, I really dont think the interest is going to be there for the game by judging the number of backers. If I were MJ, I would be worried about the lack of interest from the "mainsteam" gamers.
Indeed.
As someone remarked a few posts ago, there's a significant number of "heavy backers" providing the funding in this bid. Which may well be an indication that the game lacks broad support.
If 3 people pledge $700K each, the KS funding target will be reached. But the goal will not have been reached, if the KS campaign is supposed to prove that there's a significant fanbase for the game.
Sure, it's supposed to be a "niche game", but just how small IS this niche that MJ is targeting ?
I think MJ has said that one of the reasons of doing the KS was to gauge the interest of gamers to this game. I don't think it is all about the money TBH.
Even if this game does meet the 2mil goal, I really dont think the interest is going to be there for the game by judging the number of backers. If I were MJ, I would be worried about the lack of interest from the "mainsteam" gamers.
Nah, "mainstream" gamers aren't an issue as they were never the target. Though I agree he should be worried. The niche gamers he's targeting are primarily forum goers of different sites so most of his target audience should be aware of the kickstarter. Also with the budget he has there isn't much room for a great deal of marketing so the kickstarter, his website, and the forums are pretty much the bulk of his advertising means.
What that means is that he can't realistically expect more than about 10k players and thats just as of now. Its more likely to decrease than increase as development begins and by the time launch eventually happens you are looking at even less players due to the amount of competition that will likely be present with varying business models.
In the 5 or so years CU will need for development both Rift, TESO, and GW2 will have long been out and had chances to improve and refine their RvR offerings on top of the other content they have. They have both larger teams and larger budgets.
In the 5 or so years it will take CU to be developed games like The Repopulation will long be out and in the mix as will several other indy and small team RvR MMOs.
I mean, lets face it... with out much reasonable competition CU has generated very little actual interest. By the time it launches the competition will be well established and offer a great deal more and have had a chance to address bugs and polish. We are talking about a low budget MMO that will be very light on variety targeting a group small group of gamers that are getting targeted by numerous other games several of which have much larger budgets and teams. Mind you the competition will be offering non RvR PvP and PvE on top of the RvR which gives variety and variety my friends is the spice of life.
Edited to Add: I will give him credit for this though. If he plans on adding a cash shop he may still end up making a ton of cash off of CU. The pledge seems to average out at over $150 per backer lol. He might want to consider skipping the monthly fee and make the game free to play and put in a robust cash shop. That may be the only way to for him to make much money with the game given the level of interest.
Nah, "mainstream" gamers aren't an issue as they were never the target. Though I agree he should be worried. The niche gamers he's targeting are primarily forum goers of different sites so most of his target audience should be aware of the kickstarter. Also with the budget he has there isn't much room for a great deal of marketing so the kickstarter, his website, and the forums are pretty much the bulk of his advertising means.
What that means is that he can't realistically expect more than about 10k players and thats just as of now. Its more likely to decrease than increase as development begins and by the time launch eventually happens you are looking at even less players due to the amount of competition that will likely be present with varying business models.
In the 5 or so years CU will need for development both Rift, TESO, and GW2 will have long been out and had chances to improve and refine their RvR offerings on top of the other content they have. They have both larger teams and larger budgets.
In the 5 or so years it will take CU to be developed games like The Repopulation will long be out and in the mix as will several other indy and small team RvR MMOs.
I mean, lets face it... with out much reasonable competition CU has generated very little actual interest. By the time it launches the competition will be well established and offer a great deal more and have had a chance to address bugs and polish. We are talking about a low budget MMO that will be very light on variety targeting a group small group of gamers that are getting targeted by numerous other games several of which have much larger budgets and teams. Mind you the competition will be offering non RvR PvP and PvE on top of the RvR which gives variety and variety my friends is the spice of life.
Edited to Add: I will give him credit for this though. If he plans on adding a cash shop he may still end up making a ton of cash off of CU. The pledge seems to average out at over $1,500 per backer lol. He might want to consider skipping the monthly fee and make the game free to play and put in a robust cash shop. That may be the only way to for him to make much money with the game given the level of interest.
There is strong resistance among many gamers to Kickstarter. That means there will be thousands of people who will buy and play the game should it get made who didn't donate. I don't know if it will be the 50,000 Mark wants but 20,000 to 30,000 seems completely realistic. Probably much more than that at first just from people who are curious to play the newest game.
The game isn't going to take 5 years. There are no PVE quests with cut scenes with voice overs to do. There is only a limited number of zones to create. It's scheduled to be out December 2015, over 2 1/2 years from now. That seems achievable give or take 6 months.
Rift and GW 2? LOL! TESO certainly appeals to much of the same player base but by the time CU comes out players may already have gotten bored of TESO. Hell if it follow the pattern of recent RvR games, they'll be bored of TESO by the end of THIS year.
You need to get a new calculator. The game is averaging around $154/backer not $1,500.
Nah, "mainstream" gamers aren't an issue as they were never the target. Though I agree he should be worried. The niche gamers he's targeting are primarily forum goers of different sites so most of his target audience should be aware of the kickstarter. Also with the budget he has there isn't much room for a great deal of marketing so the kickstarter, his website, and the forums are pretty much the bulk of his advertising means.
What that means is that he can't realistically expect more than about 10k players and thats just as of now. Its more likely to decrease than increase as development begins and by the time launch eventually happens you are looking at even less players due to the amount of competition that will likely be present with varying business models.
In the 5 or so years CU will need for development both Rift, TESO, and GW2 will have long been out and had chances to improve and refine their RvR offerings on top of the other content they have. They have both larger teams and larger budgets.
In the 5 or so years it will take CU to be developed games like The Repopulation will long be out and in the mix as will several other indy and small team RvR MMOs.
I mean, lets face it... with out much reasonable competition CU has generated very little actual interest. By the time it launches the competition will be well established and offer a great deal more and have had a chance to address bugs and polish. We are talking about a low budget MMO that will be very light on variety targeting a group small group of gamers that are getting targeted by numerous other games several of which have much larger budgets and teams. Mind you the competition will be offering non RvR PvP and PvE on top of the RvR which gives variety and variety my friends is the spice of life.
Edited to Add: I will give him credit for this though. If he plans on adding a cash shop he may still end up making a ton of cash off of CU. The pledge seems to average out at over $1,500 per backer lol. He might want to consider skipping the monthly fee and make the game free to play and put in a robust cash shop. That may be the only way to for him to make much money with the game given the level of interest.
There is strong resistance among many gamers to Kickstarter. That means there will be thousands of people who will buy and play the game should it get made who didn't donate. I don't know if it will be the 50,000 Mark wants but 20,000 to 30,000 seems completely realistic. Probably much more than that at first just from people who are curious to play the newest game.
The game isn't going to take 5 years. There are no PVE quests with cut scenes with voice overs to do. There is only a limited number of zones to create. It's scheduled to be out December 2015, over 2 1/2 years from now. That seems achievable give or take 6 months.
Rift and GW 2? LOL! TESO certainly appeals to much of the same player base but by the time CU comes out players may already have gotten bored of TESO. Hell if it follow the pattern of recent RvR games, they'll be bored of TESO by the end of THIS year.
You need to get a new calculator. The game is averaging around $154/backer not $1,500.
My bad, hit an extra 0 when averaging earlier and didn't care enough to double check. You are correct, $154 per backer. I will edit my post, thank you.
Laugh all you want about the rest but it is the reality of it. You have main stream games and niche games that CU is going to be competing with all look to be offering more variety for the players.
As far as players being bored of TESO by the end of the year, you are actually pretty correct. The problem is that it isn't the RvR fans that will get bored. Its TES fans that will leave within a month or so. The game actually seems to have lasting appeal for RvR and mainly DAoC fans. In any case as I said they will have around 5 years of content development and polish on these games by the time CU releases. These games of today will be entirely different games by then. Look at WoW at launch and WoW now. A lot can change. This again isn't counting the numerous indy devs and small developers that CU will have to compete with in 5 years time.
But everyone is allowed an opinion and that includes both you and I. Before we get to the rest CU has to pass the first hurdle, which is getting funded and it isn't doing to good on that front.
Laugh all you want about the rest but it is the reality of it. You have main stream games and niche games that CU is going to be competing with all look to be offering more variety for the players.
As far as players being bored of TESO by the end of the year, you are actually pretty correct. The problem is that it isn't the RvR fans that will get bored. Its TES fans that will leave within a month or so. The game actually seems to have lasting appeal for RvR and mainly DAoC fans. In any case as I said they will have around 5 years of content development and polish on these games by the time CU releases. These games of today will be entirely different games by then. Look at WoW at launch and WoW now. A lot can change. This again isn't counting the numerous indy devs and small developers that CU will have to compete with in 5 years time.
That is absolutely laughable. I've yet to see a dedicated thread anywhere where major RvR fans are dying to play ESO. in fact, most seem to feel it'll go the way of GW2's WvW system, which is a sidegame in a dedicated PvE game, similar to WoW's alterac valley abomination. it looks like most players learned their lesson from GW2, who touted WvW as an "inspiration" from daoc. boy, that sure didn't go well.
Laugh all you want about the rest but it is the reality of it. You have main stream games and niche games that CU is going to be competing with all look to be offering more variety for the players.
As far as players being bored of TESO by the end of the year, you are actually pretty correct. The problem is that it isn't the RvR fans that will get bored. Its TES fans that will leave within a month or so. The game actually seems to have lasting appeal for RvR and mainly DAoC fans. In any case as I said they will have around 5 years of content development and polish on these games by the time CU releases. These games of today will be entirely different games by then. Look at WoW at launch and WoW now. A lot can change. This again isn't counting the numerous indy devs and small developers that CU will have to compete with in 5 years time.
That is absolutely laughable. I've yet to see a dedicated thread anywhere where major RvR fans are dying to play ESO. in fact, most seem to feel it'll go the way of GW2's WvW system, which is a sidegame in a dedicated PvE game, similar to WoW's alterac valley abomination. it looks like most players learned their lesson from GW2, who touted WvW as an "inspiration" from daoc. boy, that sure didn't go well.
All I know is GW2 has been a massive success and WvW has a very healthy number of players. TESO's RvR has generated a huge amount of hype. CU on the other hand is struggling to get 10k backers and 2mil pledged to fund it.
Again, laugh all you wish it isn't going to change what is.
@Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE I have developed a spec opcs style approach to help us gain support. I call it, operation Rambo, Unicorn, Camelot Unchained aka RU-CU?
Phase 2. Twitter Make like a robin and Re-tweet and hashtag your butts off! Everything from CSE, and also hit up any celebs (especially MMO celebs). https://twitter.com/CityStateGames
Feel Free to Copy Paste this wherever you feel the need: A few people have asked why we are so hyped for CU when it hasn't even began yet. Well I'll enlighten them. It's not because of MJ. We respect him and appreciate his willingness to work with us for a better result, but its more that that. If CU succeeds, it sends the message that the players want more and are ready to reclaim this genre. To take it away from corporate greed and dumbed down mass appeal theme parks. It lets it be known that we are ready for a challenge, we want something different, new, harder, and social. I lets investors know that they can back the little guys again, take chances again, and make a world for us to live in again! It makes the statement, you do not need 200 million dollars to make a mmo, you need the same ingredients that have always made for good art, a brave idea, creativity, challenge, working outside the comfort zone, being receptive to feedback, and the love of what you are creating. It takes the power away from the corporate invaders and puts it back in the hands of the people that have loved and supported this genre before it was mainstream, and will be supporting it long after. It gives us back our voice, our vote, and most importantly, our game! CU is MJ's baby, but if he does what he says he will, if he continues to work with us like he has, this is a game for the players, by the players, and with our continued support it shall not vanish from this genre! You ask us why we support MJ and CU, I ask you why aren't you! Now who is with me!
Wow....
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
All I know is GW2 has been a massive success and WvW has a very healthy number of players. TESO's RvR has generated a huge amount of hype. CU on the other hand is struggling to get 10k backers and 2mil pledged to fund it.
Again, laugh all you wish it isn't going to change what is.
you mean a massive dumbed down casual only PvE success, if one were to be truly honest. there are still plenty of WvW complaints on numerous forums (especially the official ones), along with the official thread sticked for months about gw2's ridiculous timer/nightcapping issues. the latest bone thrown to WvWers insulted them with progression limited to 5% damage to guards as a reward. truly inspiring. let's not ignore how mass exoduses have occurred to most servers, with prime examples being SBI, HoD, CD, SoS, etc. If the last remaining WvWers flooding to the tier 1 servers indicates "healthy" numbers to you, that's certainly your opinion.
what hype for ESO RvR? all i see are massive complaints from longtime ES fans about ruining the lore and gameplay while having a very small area that essentially copies daoc/gw2 mechanics. won't be shocked when the "hype" wears off.
bring on CU with new great ideas , large open worlds similar to daoc, and garnering huge $ per backer with limited to no press.
You ask us why we support MJ and CU, I ask you why aren't you! Now who is with me!
Because as much as some want to blame EA we already heard this bullshit with Warhammer Online. Which I beg to differ that he had his hands so tied. Sure didn't seem that way at the time until the bottom fell out.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You ask us why we support MJ and CU, I ask you why aren't you! Now who is with me!
Because as much as some want to blame EA we already heard this bullshit with Warhammer Online. Which I beg to differ that he had his hands so tied. Sure didn't seem that way at the time until the bottom fell out.
warhammer was a steaming pile that deviated from daoc's core, which MJ has acknowledged.
but feel free to state why CU's new mmo ideas are a sham.
warhammer was a steaming pile that deviated from daoc's core, which MJ has acknowledged.
but feel free to state why CU's new mmo ideas are a sham.
I never said it was a sham but thanks for further proving my point.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
@Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE I have developed a spec opcs style approach to help us gain support. I call it, operation Rambo, Unicorn, Camelot Unchained aka RU-CU?
Phase 2. Twitter Make like a robin and Re-tweet and hashtag your butts off! Everything from CSE, and also hit up any celebs (especially MMO celebs). https://twitter.com/CityStateGames
Feel Free to Copy Paste this wherever you feel the need: A few people have asked why we are so hyped for CU when it hasn't even began yet. Well I'll enlighten them. It's not because of MJ. We respect him and appreciate his willingness to work with us for a better result, but its more that that. If CU succeeds, it sends the message that the players want more and are ready to reclaim this genre. To take it away from corporate greed and dumbed down mass appeal theme parks. It lets it be known that we are ready for a challenge, we want something different, new, harder, and social. I lets investors know that they can back the little guys again, take chances again, and make a world for us to live in again! It makes the statement, you do not need 200 million dollars to make a mmo, you need the same ingredients that have always made for good art, a brave idea, creativity, challenge, working outside the comfort zone, being receptive to feedback, and the love of what you are creating. It takes the power away from the corporate invaders and puts it back in the hands of the people that have loved and supported this genre before it was mainstream, and will be supporting it long after. It gives us back our voice, our vote, and most importantly, our game! CU is MJ's baby, but if he does what he says he will, if he continues to work with us like he has, this is a game for the players, by the players, and with our continued support it shall not vanish from this genre! You ask us why we support MJ and CU, I ask you why aren't you! Now who is with me!
Wow....
Indeed...
Fans like these probably give developers nightmares
Because, if the developer doesn't produce a game that's exactly what this fan is imagining it will be, then all that energy will become negative and they'll run intensive campaigns like these to DESTROY the game...
It's very interesting looking at the Star Citizen kickstarter stats compared to CU.
Star Citizen
Backers: 34,397
Pledged: $2,134,374
Comments: 53,500
Camelot Unchained
Backers: 9,440
Pledged: $1,452,293
Comments: 67,786
...I have also been looking at other successful Kickstarter projects and other games like Torment and Project of Eternity exceeded well above what they were asking with final pledges totalling around the around the $4,000,000 mark with a high number of backers
I think though that they were both already well in development and folks could really see what they were buying into, getting a proper sense of of how the game would look for real. I think that the premise for Camelot Unchained is brilliant and I can certainly 'imagine' how the game might finally look. I think however this is the problem when trying to raise funds. Relying on what is largely a story at present is risky and when I watched the lore presentation although on the whole it was plausible I did think the bit where the triplets became altered over time very akin to Golem fine up until the point that the reason why one of the triplets became a Viking was because in his sub-conscience he had always admired them a little thin. I thought about this a lot and have maybe a better way of introducing the races.....
I think instead of all three swords being in an anvil I think they should have been placed / harnessed in different medium's. One sword infused in Stone / Granite which would lead to Arthurian beginnings, One in an Old wisdomous Oak persuing the course of Nature and the third Sword held in ice / permafrost which would hold Viking Spriit.....
This would still fit in with the rest of the Lore but I think be a far slicker introduction for the three races...
I think my whole point was that if they had developed the game and story a little more with MJ's $2,000,000 or just part of it and had more to show when they began a Kickstarter campaign they might well have made $4,000,000 also with more 'convinced' backers. I really want this campaign to reach it's target.....but if it doesn't I think stepping back for 6 months and rolling their sleeves up and getting stuck in for real will bring the support they need.
Fans like these probably give developers nightmares
Because, if the developer doesn't produce a game that's exactly what this fan is imagining it will be, then all that energy will become negative and they'll run intensive campaigns like these to DESTROY the game...
poor haters. they're wishing so so hard a real RvR game with limited press doesn't reach its goal great to watch.
judging by your post history, do enjoy defiance.. haha.
ah, in other words, you can't knock any of the great ideas presented or transparency of the developers throughout the entire ks process. got it.
I said this in the very beginning of the KS but thanks to the mods here the shit was deleted. This is going to fail. I'm not saying I am a proponent of it failing but all the same regardless your personal sentiment it comes across as a cash grab and a circle jerk due to the recent success of other KS. Not to mention whether you like it or not many are still angered by the whole Warhammer debacle that at the time was supposed to be the successor to DAOC.
Now chances are they will learn from this and succeed in another form but this KS is not going to happen for a number of reasons. I have given several reasons as to why. Whether you don't want to peruse my history or they were modded thanks to mods here being overzealous in the beginning of this whole foray is no fault of mine.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Fans like these probably give developers nightmares
Because, if the developer doesn't produce a game that's exactly what this fan is imagining it will be, then all that energy will become negative and they'll run intensive campaigns like these to DESTROY the game...
poor haters. they're wishing so so hard a real RvR game with limited press doesn't reach its goal great to watch.
judging by your post history, do enjoy defiance.. haha.
Whut ?
Are all Defiance players automatically labelled as "CU haterz" now ?
Or is that what you call anyone who is not a fanatical CU fanboi ?
"If you're not with us, then you are obviously against us !"
It's very interesting looking at the Star Citizen kickstarter stats compared to CU.
Star Citizen
Backers: 34,397
Average Pledge Per Backer: $62
Pledged: $2,134,374
Comments: 53,500
Camelot Unchained
Backers: 9,440
Pledged: $1,452,293
Average Pledge Per Backer: $154
Comments: 67,786
Shroud of the avatar.
Backers: 22322
Average Pledge Per Backer: $86
Funded: $1,919,275
You can clearly see what is the problem with CU ... 154$ average pledged per backer is an insane ammount. And even if by any miracle it funds, they should rethink his campain politics.... 10000 backers are to few for a project asking for 2m
In all honesty, i hope CU kickstarter fails to found, 154$ average dolars per backers are too much, low tiers are empty (those are the tiers that brings people and life toa project) and then we have all those hight smoke tiers of + 500$ near full, thats not normal.
Again right now the best that could happen to CU is to fail, then MJ and his team should spend some time/money making a decent prototype and do a kickstarter again asking for 1m or 1.5m $ and bring more people, and he will get those +2m $ with stretch goals.
I said this in the very beginning of the KS but thanks to the mods here the shit was deleted. This is going to fail. I'm not saying I am a proponent of it failing but all the same regardless your personal sentiment it comes across as a cash grab and a circle jerk due to the recent success of other KS. Not to mention whether you like it or not many are still angered by the whole Warhammer debacle that at the time was supposed to be the successor to DAOC.
Now chances are they will learn from this and succeed in another form but this KS is not going to happen for a number of reasons. I have given several reasons as to why. Whether you don't want to peruse my history or they were modded thanks to mods here being overzealous in the beginning of this whole foray is no fault of mine.
ah the ole cash grab remark. do tell, with facts and evidence to support your original claim.
i was also angry about warhammer, until i realized WoW and GW2 were worse in terms of (mediocre) PvP/RvR. at least MJ is actually attempting to make a difference.
the rest of your points, well, all of it actually, is just pure speculation.
ah the ole cash grab remark. do tell, with facts and evidence to support your original claim.
i was also angry about warhammer, until i realized WoW and GW2 were worse in terms of (mediocre) PvP/RvR. at least MJ is actually attempting to make a difference.
the rest of your points, well, all of it actually, is just pure speculation.
I had and have given more points as to why. That isn't my only reason for its failing...and again while I think little of MJ from a business standpoint; I have no personal vendetta towards him.
I am not going to state my varied reasons again for the umpteenth time. I know in the beginning some of my posts were deleted but there are others stating my reasons why. If you can't be bothered to look them up I see no reason for typing them out again. Hell...think I reposted them in a featured article here relating to the issue of nostalgia posted last week I believe that should still have my reasoning present.
...and to be clear I never meant this was a cash grab. My point was his goal level for the KS was influenced by the other KS I believe they banked on.
I said myself in other posts that at a lower goal point, a better initial marketing plan, and being more communicative before the KS would have not only reached their goal of 2 million but surpassed it. MJ's name holds a lot of clout for the pros and cons. I'm not saying they would have surpassed Torment's mark but marketed the right way it could have done a hell of a lot better than this. Not that this mark so far for the KS is anything to downplay but I'm not the one that set the goal point
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
I think MJ has said that one of the reasons of doing the KS was to gauge the interest of gamers to this game. I don't think it is all about the money TBH.
Even if this game does meet the 2mil goal, I really dont think the interest is going to be there for the game by judging the number of backers. If I were MJ, I would be worried about the lack of interest from the "mainsteam" gamers.
Indeed.
As someone remarked a few posts ago, there's a significant number of "heavy backers" providing the funding in this bid. Which may well be an indication that the game lacks broad support.
If 3 people pledge $700K each, the KS funding target will be reached. But the goal will not have been reached, if the KS campaign is supposed to prove that there's a significant fanbase for the game.
Sure, it's supposed to be a "niche game", but just how small IS this niche that MJ is targeting ?
Nah, "mainstream" gamers aren't an issue as they were never the target. Though I agree he should be worried. The niche gamers he's targeting are primarily forum goers of different sites so most of his target audience should be aware of the kickstarter. Also with the budget he has there isn't much room for a great deal of marketing so the kickstarter, his website, and the forums are pretty much the bulk of his advertising means.
What that means is that he can't realistically expect more than about 10k players and thats just as of now. Its more likely to decrease than increase as development begins and by the time launch eventually happens you are looking at even less players due to the amount of competition that will likely be present with varying business models.
In the 5 or so years CU will need for development both Rift, TESO, and GW2 will have long been out and had chances to improve and refine their RvR offerings on top of the other content they have. They have both larger teams and larger budgets.
In the 5 or so years it will take CU to be developed games like The Repopulation will long be out and in the mix as will several other indy and small team RvR MMOs.
I mean, lets face it... with out much reasonable competition CU has generated very little actual interest. By the time it launches the competition will be well established and offer a great deal more and have had a chance to address bugs and polish. We are talking about a low budget MMO that will be very light on variety targeting a group small group of gamers that are getting targeted by numerous other games several of which have much larger budgets and teams. Mind you the competition will be offering non RvR PvP and PvE on top of the RvR which gives variety and variety my friends is the spice of life.
Edited to Add: I will give him credit for this though. If he plans on adding a cash shop he may still end up making a ton of cash off of CU. The pledge seems to average out at over $150 per backer lol. He might want to consider skipping the monthly fee and make the game free to play and put in a robust cash shop. That may be the only way to for him to make much money with the game given the level of interest.
There is strong resistance among many gamers to Kickstarter. That means there will be thousands of people who will buy and play the game should it get made who didn't donate. I don't know if it will be the 50,000 Mark wants but 20,000 to 30,000 seems completely realistic. Probably much more than that at first just from people who are curious to play the newest game.
The game isn't going to take 5 years. There are no PVE quests with cut scenes with voice overs to do. There is only a limited number of zones to create. It's scheduled to be out December 2015, over 2 1/2 years from now. That seems achievable give or take 6 months.
Rift and GW 2? LOL! TESO certainly appeals to much of the same player base but by the time CU comes out players may already have gotten bored of TESO. Hell if it follow the pattern of recent RvR games, they'll be bored of TESO by the end of THIS year.
You need to get a new calculator. The game is averaging around $154/backer not $1,500.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
My bad, hit an extra 0 when averaging earlier and didn't care enough to double check. You are correct, $154 per backer. I will edit my post, thank you.
Laugh all you want about the rest but it is the reality of it. You have main stream games and niche games that CU is going to be competing with all look to be offering more variety for the players.
As far as players being bored of TESO by the end of the year, you are actually pretty correct. The problem is that it isn't the RvR fans that will get bored. Its TES fans that will leave within a month or so. The game actually seems to have lasting appeal for RvR and mainly DAoC fans. In any case as I said they will have around 5 years of content development and polish on these games by the time CU releases. These games of today will be entirely different games by then. Look at WoW at launch and WoW now. A lot can change. This again isn't counting the numerous indy devs and small developers that CU will have to compete with in 5 years time.
But everyone is allowed an opinion and that includes both you and I. Before we get to the rest CU has to pass the first hurdle, which is getting funded and it isn't doing to good on that front.
That is absolutely laughable. I've yet to see a dedicated thread anywhere where major RvR fans are dying to play ESO. in fact, most seem to feel it'll go the way of GW2's WvW system, which is a sidegame in a dedicated PvE game, similar to WoW's alterac valley abomination. it looks like most players learned their lesson from GW2, who touted WvW as an "inspiration" from daoc. boy, that sure didn't go well.
All I know is GW2 has been a massive success and WvW has a very healthy number of players. TESO's RvR has generated a huge amount of hype. CU on the other hand is struggling to get 10k backers and 2mil pledged to fund it.
Again, laugh all you wish it isn't going to change what is.
At this point they would need a sustained 100k+ a day, they not been getting anywhere near that. I don't think it is going to get funded.
Wow....
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
you mean a massive dumbed down casual only PvE success, if one were to be truly honest. there are still plenty of WvW complaints on numerous forums (especially the official ones), along with the official thread sticked for months about gw2's ridiculous timer/nightcapping issues. the latest bone thrown to WvWers insulted them with progression limited to 5% damage to guards as a reward. truly inspiring. let's not ignore how mass exoduses have occurred to most servers, with prime examples being SBI, HoD, CD, SoS, etc. If the last remaining WvWers flooding to the tier 1 servers indicates "healthy" numbers to you, that's certainly your opinion.
what hype for ESO RvR? all i see are massive complaints from longtime ES fans about ruining the lore and gameplay while having a very small area that essentially copies daoc/gw2 mechanics. won't be shocked when the "hype" wears off.
bring on CU with new great ideas , large open worlds similar to daoc, and garnering huge $ per backer with limited to no press.
Because as much as some want to blame EA we already heard this bullshit with Warhammer Online. Which I beg to differ that he had his hands so tied. Sure didn't seem that way at the time until the bottom fell out.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
warhammer was a steaming pile that deviated from daoc's core, which MJ has acknowledged.
but feel free to state why CU's new mmo ideas are a sham.
It's very interesting looking at the Star Citizen kickstarter stats compared to CU.
Star Citizen
Backers: 34,397
Pledged: $2,134,374
Comments: 53,500
Camelot Unchained
Backers: 9,440
Pledged: $1,452,293
Comments: 67,786
I never said it was a sham but thanks for further proving my point.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Indeed...
Fans like these probably give developers nightmares
Because, if the developer doesn't produce a game that's exactly what this fan is imagining it will be, then all that energy will become negative and they'll run intensive campaigns like these to DESTROY the game...
...I have also been looking at other successful Kickstarter projects and other games like Torment and Project of Eternity exceeded well above what they were asking with final pledges totalling around the around the $4,000,000 mark with a high number of backers
I think though that they were both already well in development and folks could really see what they were buying into, getting a proper sense of of how the game would look for real. I think that the premise for Camelot Unchained is brilliant and I can certainly 'imagine' how the game might finally look. I think however this is the problem when trying to raise funds. Relying on what is largely a story at present is risky and when I watched the lore presentation although on the whole it was plausible I did think the bit where the triplets became altered over time very akin to Golem fine up until the point that the reason why one of the triplets became a Viking was because in his sub-conscience he had always admired them a little thin. I thought about this a lot and have maybe a better way of introducing the races.....
I think instead of all three swords being in an anvil I think they should have been placed / harnessed in different medium's. One sword infused in Stone / Granite which would lead to Arthurian beginnings, One in an Old wisdomous Oak persuing the course of Nature and the third Sword held in ice / permafrost which would hold Viking Spriit.....
This would still fit in with the rest of the Lore but I think be a far slicker introduction for the three races...
I think my whole point was that if they had developed the game and story a little more with MJ's $2,000,000 or just part of it and had more to show when they began a Kickstarter campaign they might well have made $4,000,000 also with more 'convinced' backers. I really want this campaign to reach it's target.....but if it doesn't I think stepping back for 6 months and rolling their sleeves up and getting stuck in for real will bring the support they need.
ah, in other words, you can't knock any of the great ideas presented or transparency of the developers throughout the entire ks process. got it.
poor haters. they're wishing so so hard a real RvR game with limited press doesn't reach its goal
great to watch.
judging by your post history, do enjoy defiance.. haha.
I said this in the very beginning of the KS but thanks to the mods here the shit was deleted. This is going to fail. I'm not saying I am a proponent of it failing but all the same regardless your personal sentiment it comes across as a cash grab and a circle jerk due to the recent success of other KS. Not to mention whether you like it or not many are still angered by the whole Warhammer debacle that at the time was supposed to be the successor to DAOC.
Now chances are they will learn from this and succeed in another form but this KS is not going to happen for a number of reasons. I have given several reasons as to why. Whether you don't want to peruse my history or they were modded thanks to mods here being overzealous in the beginning of this whole foray is no fault of mine.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Whut ?
Are all Defiance players automatically labelled as "CU haterz" now ?
Or is that what you call anyone who is not a fanatical CU fanboi ?
"If you're not with us, then you are obviously against us !"
Shroud of the avatar.
Backers: 22322
Average Pledge Per Backer: $86
Funded: $1,919,275
You can clearly see what is the problem with CU ... 154$ average pledged per backer is an insane ammount. And even if by any miracle it funds, they should rethink his campain politics.... 10000 backers are to few for a project asking for 2m
In all honesty, i hope CU kickstarter fails to found, 154$ average dolars per backers are too much, low tiers are empty (those are the tiers that brings people and life toa project) and then we have all those hight smoke tiers of + 500$ near full, thats not normal.
Again right now the best that could happen to CU is to fail, then MJ and his team should spend some time/money making a decent prototype and do a kickstarter again asking for 1m or 1.5m $ and bring more people, and he will get those +2m $ with stretch goals.
ah the ole cash grab remark. do tell, with facts and evidence to support your original claim.
i was also angry about warhammer, until i realized WoW and GW2 were worse in terms of (mediocre) PvP/RvR. at least MJ is actually attempting to make a difference.
the rest of your points, well, all of it actually, is just pure speculation.
your post history speaks for itself. not even a need to bash defiance. its userbase is already doing so.
I had and have given more points as to why. That isn't my only reason for its failing...and again while I think little of MJ from a business standpoint; I have no personal vendetta towards him.
I am not going to state my varied reasons again for the umpteenth time. I know in the beginning some of my posts were deleted but there are others stating my reasons why. If you can't be bothered to look them up I see no reason for typing them out again. Hell...think I reposted them in a featured article here relating to the issue of nostalgia posted last week I believe that should still have my reasoning present.
...and to be clear I never meant this was a cash grab. My point was his goal level for the KS was influenced by the other KS I believe they banked on.
I said myself in other posts that at a lower goal point, a better initial marketing plan, and being more communicative before the KS would have not only reached their goal of 2 million but surpassed it. MJ's name holds a lot of clout for the pros and cons. I'm not saying they would have surpassed Torment's mark but marketed the right way it could have done a hell of a lot better than this. Not that this mark so far for the KS is anything to downplay but I'm not the one that set the goal point
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.