I am looking forward to the years of development and the many tears of people that put $250+ into this game when and if it releases to a completely changed market in about 3-5 years with less than 15,000 loyal players/backers.
Well done and good luck to you all.
Originally posted by taus01
No matter how often you repeat that it is KickSTARTER not KickENDER, that people don't understand how Kickstarter works and my favourite, "But Project X had even less to show", it does not change one little fact:
This campaign only convinced 7600 people so far and is going to fail at the current rate.
All of this in the day and age where millions put up money for Alpha/Beta access of games that are not even finished, happily paying for beta access and completely ridiculous founders packages for $200.
Has it ever crossed your mind that there is something wrong with the campaign or how it is presented?
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
Seriously man, just admit you were wrong and let it go. Don't go back and point at a clause in a prior post and say "Hey, thats not what I meant. See, see, look at the exact phrasing I used!" It is clear to everyone that you thought it was going to fail and were a bit delighted for the same. You clearly have issues with CU. That is fine and good, but just admit it and stop posing like you are an intellectual juggernaut with a knack for fortune telling.
I am looking forward to the years of development and the many tears of people that put $250+ into this game when and if it releases to a completely changed market in about 3-5 years with less than 15,000 loyal players/backers.
Well done and good luck to you all.
good thing this game is completely seperate from the WoW clone market and is looking more for a niche market that stays loyal too the game
and what sets this apart from the market is that it has its money and there's no publishers draining their funds, they can freely make the game they want for their niche market and dont depend on a clone to make the publishers money, and in 5-10 years when that hardcore playerbase finally dies off, they can open up another kickstarter for Dark age of Camelot 2
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am looking forward to the years of development and the many tears of people that put $250+ into this game when and if it releases to a completely changed market in about 3-5 years with less than 15,000 loyal players/backers.
Well done and good luck to you all.
good thing this game is completely seperate from the WoW clone market and is looking more for a niche market that stays loyal too the game
and what sets this apart from the market is that it has its money and there's no publishers draining their funds, they can freely make the game they want for their niche market and dont depend on a clone to make the publishers money, and in 5-10 years when that hardcore playerbase finally dies off, they can open up another kickstarter for Dark age of Camelot 2
Yupp, that's the biggest pro the game has, it's pure PvP, nothing else. Might even say its a bit like Battlefield/CoD in a fantasy world, with a persistent world rather than maps. There seems to be only one competition too, Darkfall 2: UW, which is struggling since it's first release with a very small player base and plenty of problems.
If done right and there is still a market for this type of game in about 3-5 years they have a winner.
I even pledged $5 just to follow the development process.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Originally posted by Kyleran OK, even though it funded, I went in for a young hero package, really would like to see the new Depths created.
that's what i settled with as well.. more than i usally will put down for a game but i really wanted to support this one:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yupp, that's the biggest pro the game has, it's pure PvP, nothing else. Might even say its a bit like Defiance in a fantasy world, with a persistent world rather than maps. There seems to be only one competition too, Darkfall 2: UW, which is struggling since it's first release with a very small player base and plenty of problems.
If done right and there is still a market for this type of game in about 3-5 years they have a winner.
I even pledged $5 just to follow the development process.
except that's not true in many ways.. and the defiance reference is an odd one indeed :P
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yupp, that's the biggest pro the game has, it's pure PvP, nothing else. Might even say its a bit like Defiance in a fantasy world, with a persistent world rather than maps. There seems to be only one competition too, Darkfall 2: UW, which is struggling since it's first release with a very small player base and plenty of problems.
If done right and there is still a market for this type of game in about 3-5 years they have a winner.
I even pledged $5 just to follow the development process.
except that's not true in many ways.. and the defiance reference is an odd one indeed :P
I meant Battlefield/COD not Defiance, not sure how that snuck in there, must be the fact that it's 4am here.
It's not pure pvp? Here i thought its a PvP game, well RvR x 3.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Yupp, that's the biggest pro the game has, it's pure PvP, nothing else. Might even say its a bit like Defiance in a fantasy world, with a persistent world rather than maps. There seems to be only one competition too, Darkfall 2: UW, which is struggling since it's first release with a very small player base and plenty of problems.
If done right and there is still a market for this type of game in about 3-5 years they have a winner.
I even pledged $5 just to follow the development process.
except that's not true in many ways.. and the defiance reference is an odd one indeed :P
I meant Battlefield/COD not Defiance, not sure how that snuck in there, must be the fact that it's 4am here.
It's not pure pvp? Here i thought its a PvP game, well RvR x 3.
its a RvR "focused" game but not pure PVP and nothing else..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Paypal is UP just in case anyone was curious or interested
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
meddyck, very dissappointed in your comment, thought you were more realistic than that?
Rocketeer, not surprised in your case at all.
Cya too to BowcowDAoC and Tayah.
My suggestion to you all, particularly to you meddyck, is not to burn your bridges here on MMORPG.com.
It looks like this forum will remain open (since the game will now proceed to development) and the great thing about the forum here is that it is not moderated by CSE, Mark Jacobs, or Fans... so you can come here and give an opinion, good or bad.
Having been a part of a couple of PvP Developer forums you will find it can rapidly go very wrong. Particularly when fans are so... enthusiastic ... shall we say? Moderate, critical thinking, minds are not always welcome. And 2 1/2 years locked in a box with your closest friends is a very long time indeed.
Oh, I did think of a new name for the game to replace the working title of Camelot Unchained too: Army of Zealots :-D
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.
was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund. #credibility.
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.
was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund. #credibility.
If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?
More than a few people had a doubt.
But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post? You know... for context and all that?
and also see the following posts on the Dragonwhales... also notice that many of the high tier holders have cancelled... I would suggest these were not due to "Troll Pledges" but due to the fact that many of the higher level tiers have been devalued by adjustments to other tiers and additions to the Founder's Exchange (You can now get "all future expansions" for $60 - which was reserved for much higher tiers before)
Well I was wrong, happy to admit that, apparently there is enough interest in getting a PvP only MMORPG up and running. I seriously underestimated the level of enthusiasm of the interested parties and how much they would be willing to donate to the cause.
Originally posted by Byrhofen I wonder where all the Dragonwhales went?........
lol nice spot.
scroll up.. 5 are still there.. think they added 5 more in a differn't tier
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.
was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund. #credibility.
If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?
More than a few people had a doubt.
But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post? You know... for context and all that?
*snip*
people excited about the game making a post or two isn't spamming. get real. i've seen it for all KS campaigns.
context? a quick glance at your post history shows you routinely conjure conspiracy theories, and target jacobs for "not knowing what he's doing". LoL what? thanks for more laughs.
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.
was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund. #credibility.
If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?
More than a few people had a doubt.
But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post? You know... for context and all that?
*snip*
people excited about the game making a post or two isn't spamming. get real. i've seen it for all KS campaigns.
context? a quick glance at your post history shows you routinely conjure conspiracy theories, and target jacobs for "not knowing what he's doing". LoL what? thanks for more laughs.
Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer. He is an 'ideas man' IMHO.
Am I right or wrong? Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?
TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs.
Why?
Because he has 'promised' so so much. To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game:
15 Islands
10 Inns
13 "Llighthouses"
21 Houses on Mountains
3 Naming rights on structures
18 Custom Built houses
Hundreds of statues in Founders Row. Yeah, hundreds.
Internal testing for nearly 700 people
Alpha testing for nearly 700 more (making 1400 for alpha testing alone)
the numbers grow in the Betas - someone should do a tally...
and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge. At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way.
And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go?
With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'?
He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.
Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer. He is an 'ideas man' IMHO.
Am I right or wrong? Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?
TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs.
Why?
Because he has 'promised' so so much. To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game:
15 Islands
10 Inns
13 "Llighthouses"
21 Houses on Mountains
3 Naming rights on structures
18 Custom Built houses
Hundreds of statues in Founders Row. Yeah, hundreds.
Internal testing for nearly 700 people
Alpha testing for nearly 700 more (making 1400 for alpha testing alone)
the numbers grow in the Betas - someone should do a tally...
and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge. At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way.
And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go?
With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'?
He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.
+1
This sums it up perfectly. Apparently he never learned the "under-promise, over-deliver" rule in product development.
Anybody want to wager on how far along in the development cycle he gets before the "I want my money back" posts start?
I'm backer and agree there's going to be a serious amount of entitlement among some backers. When CSE has to make a call on contentious design issues, there is going to be tons of crying. I think anyone that's been around MMOs for a while knows that though.
It's got nothing to do with whether the promises listed are aesthetic or not... what it has to do with is that it already limits the flexibility he has when designing the game.
Don't believe me? Grab some paper and 'design a world' - but you MUST include all the things in the sold list above. Sure you could just put them all on the edge of the map and say "done!" but would your paying customers accept that?
Edit : And you have to make space for 30 Inns, 10 in each realm. Why? The Inn is to go in the realm of the player's choice. Nothing to say all 10 backers wont choose the same realm. Maybe not likely - but not impossible either.
Not to mention the difficulty he will have with players wanting plots in specific areas and not getting them... you know - like a Viking player finding his plot is closer to Arthurian and TDD realms.
Oh, and we shouldn't talk about conspiracy theories here... I think they're watching me....which means now they are watching YOU too.
Originally posted by Melloz I'm backer and agree there's going to be a serious amount of entitlement among some backers. When CSE has to make a call on contentious design issues, there is going to be tons of crying. I think anyone that's been around MMOs for a while knows that though.
Yeah, that seems to be one of the major cons to funding through Kickstarter to help subsidize your financial risk instead of getting funding through the normal channels. You create an army filled with hopes and expectations not just based on what the devs have said, but also based on this perfect picture they have created in their own heads. I imagine the pressure is going to be pretty intense as this one moves forward.
I think single player games are less prone to extreme criticism in general because there is a smaller commitment to them than there is with MMORPGs, but attempting to land an MMORPG through Kickstarter that many people are expecting to play for years (the average buyer paid ~$160 for this one) is likely going to be harrowing. Entitlement and expectations are going to be enormous for this one, their last saving grace.
Comments
Seriously man, just admit you were wrong and let it go. Don't go back and point at a clause in a prior post and say "Hey, thats not what I meant. See, see, look at the exact phrasing I used!" It is clear to everyone that you thought it was going to fail and were a bit delighted for the same. You clearly have issues with CU. That is fine and good, but just admit it and stop posing like you are an intellectual juggernaut with a knack for fortune telling.
good thing this game is completely seperate from the WoW clone market and is looking more for a niche market that stays loyal too the game
and what sets this apart from the market is that it has its money and there's no publishers draining their funds, they can freely make the game they want for their niche market and dont depend on a clone to make the publishers money, and in 5-10 years when that hardcore playerbase finally dies off, they can open up another kickstarter for Dark age of Camelot 2
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yupp, that's the biggest pro the game has, it's pure PvP, nothing else. Might even say its a bit like Battlefield/CoD in a fantasy world, with a persistent world rather than maps. There seems to be only one competition too, Darkfall 2: UW, which is struggling since it's first release with a very small player base and plenty of problems.
If done right and there is still a market for this type of game in about 3-5 years they have a winner.
I even pledged $5 just to follow the development process.
that's what i settled with as well.. more than i usally will put down for a game but i really wanted to support this one:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
except that's not true in many ways.. and the defiance reference is an odd one indeed :P
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I meant Battlefield/COD not Defiance, not sure how that snuck in there, must be the fact that it's 4am here.
It's not pure pvp? Here i thought its a PvP game, well RvR x 3.
its a RvR "focused" game but not pure PVP and nothing else..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
OK Mark, time to pony up and deliver.
/popcorn
Gratz CSE! And good luck to the backers!
See you all in 2 1/2 years.
A few personal cya's too.
meddyck, very dissappointed in your comment, thought you were more realistic than that?
Rocketeer, not surprised in your case at all.
Cya too to BowcowDAoC and Tayah.
My suggestion to you all, particularly to you meddyck, is not to burn your bridges here on MMORPG.com.
It looks like this forum will remain open (since the game will now proceed to development) and the great thing about the forum here is that it is not moderated by CSE, Mark Jacobs, or Fans... so you can come here and give an opinion, good or bad.
Having been a part of a couple of PvP Developer forums you will find it can rapidly go very wrong. Particularly when fans are so... enthusiastic ... shall we say? Moderate, critical thinking, minds are not always welcome. And 2 1/2 years locked in a box with your closest friends is a very long time indeed.
Oh, I did think of a new name for the game to replace the working title of Camelot Unchained too: Army of Zealots :-D
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Kinda like the name, "Troll Smasher" better, TBH.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
quoted for hilarity and conspiracy theories.
was never a doubt for most of us that this would fund. #credibility.
If there was "never a doubt" - then why all the spam etc?
More than a few people had a doubt.
But more important than that... why didn't you quote the rest of my post? You know... for context and all that?
Edit: here's the link to the quoted post http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5686705#5686705
and also see the following posts on the Dragonwhales... also notice that many of the high tier holders have cancelled... I would suggest these were not due to "Troll Pledges" but due to the fact that many of the higher level tiers have been devalued by adjustments to other tiers and additions to the Founder's Exchange (You can now get "all future expansions" for $60 - which was reserved for much higher tiers before)
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Well I was wrong, happy to admit that, apparently there is enough interest in getting a PvP only MMORPG up and running. I seriously underestimated the level of enthusiasm of the interested parties and how much they would be willing to donate to the cause.
Good Luck to CSE.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
lol nice spot.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
scroll up.. 5 are still there.. think they added 5 more in a differn't tier
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
oh right :P
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
people excited about the game making a post or two isn't spamming. get real. i've seen it for all KS campaigns.
context? a quick glance at your post history shows you routinely conjure conspiracy theories, and target jacobs for "not knowing what he's doing". LoL what? thanks for more laughs.
Well, for the record, I don't think Mark Jacobs is a great game designer. He is an 'ideas man' IMHO.
Am I right or wrong? Well, in two and a half years I guess we'll know wont we?
TBH right now though I actually feel a little bit sorry for Mark Jacobs.
Why?
Because he has 'promised' so so much. To get this through he has already sold large parts of his game:
15 Islands
10 Inns
13 "Llighthouses"
21 Houses on Mountains
3 Naming rights on structures
18 Custom Built houses
Hundreds of statues in Founders Row. Yeah, hundreds.
Internal testing for nearly 700 people
Alpha testing for nearly 700 more (making 1400 for alpha testing alone)
the numbers grow in the Betas - someone should do a tally...
and the average pledge is over $150 per pledge. At that amount of money you can bet a number of people will have a real sense of entitlement.... these people have paid thousands of dollars in some cases... you can bet some will want things to be done their way.
And sometime in the next 2 years you can bet Mark Jacobs is going to have to compromise - how do you reckon that will go?
With several thousand absolutely rabid fans who have already paid for the game he 'promised'?
He had better be a far better designer than I give him credit for - because otherwise this is going to get really ugly.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
+1
This sums it up perfectly. Apparently he never learned the "under-promise, over-deliver" rule in product development.
Anybody want to wager on how far along in the development cycle he gets before the "I want my money back" posts start?
It's got nothing to do with whether the promises listed are aesthetic or not... what it has to do with is that it already limits the flexibility he has when designing the game.
Don't believe me? Grab some paper and 'design a world' - but you MUST include all the things in the sold list above. Sure you could just put them all on the edge of the map and say "done!" but would your paying customers accept that?
Edit : And you have to make space for 30 Inns, 10 in each realm. Why? The Inn is to go in the realm of the player's choice. Nothing to say all 10 backers wont choose the same realm. Maybe not likely - but not impossible either.
Not to mention the difficulty he will have with players wanting plots in specific areas and not getting them... you know - like a Viking player finding his plot is closer to Arthurian and TDD realms.
Oh, and we shouldn't talk about conspiracy theories here... I think they're watching me....which means now they are watching YOU too.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Yeah, that seems to be one of the major cons to funding through Kickstarter to help subsidize your financial risk instead of getting funding through the normal channels. You create an army filled with hopes and expectations not just based on what the devs have said, but also based on this perfect picture they have created in their own heads. I imagine the pressure is going to be pretty intense as this one moves forward.
I think single player games are less prone to extreme criticism in general because there is a smaller commitment to them than there is with MMORPGs, but attempting to land an MMORPG through Kickstarter that many people are expecting to play for years (the average buyer paid ~$160 for this one) is likely going to be harrowing. Entitlement and expectations are going to be enormous for this one, their last saving grace.