Originally posted by Nanfoodle TES was not a sandpark game. I am starting to think that to many people here have no clue what a sandbgame is. To be sandbox you would need to be able to build and change the world. How could you do that in TES? You dont even get to write your own story. The only thing thats even a little bit sandbox in the game is the freedom to make any class you want and ESO has that in the game. TES is 99.9999% themepark.
i agree with nanfodle on smething??? *looks outside to makesure the world is still there,.
any way silliness aside i agree with this, and this is why i disagree that themeparks are dead games people are forgetting all the great one out there and only looking at the ones they dont like.
iv said it before but ill say it agian
in my opion sandbox games are games where you can manipulate the world, build in it, and adjust it.
haveing a game where you can not adjust the envirment and dont have quest , and then are told its up to you to make your quests and story. are not sandbox
games where the econamy is based mainly on players is not a sandbox ( or are we going to start calling WoW a sandbox)
games that have nothing in them story, depth, or things to do wise, and have no building aspect to it are not sandbox.
in my opion these are games that use the title of sandbox to make life easyier on them cause they dont actually have to make content for the game.
and dont tell me oh they have to make the tools to use, cause i hate to tell you this but the first thing most MMO Devs do is make those said tool for themselves.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.
Originally posted by amalmer1 TES are not sandbox games. Minecraft is a sandbox game. As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system. Targeting is probably to help with lag. Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game. If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.
Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.
now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.
but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,
Originally posted by amalmer1 TES are not sandbox games. Minecraft is a sandbox game. As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system. Targeting is probably to help with lag. Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game. If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.
Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.
now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.
but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,
then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.
also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????
i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game. I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....
Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.
One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.
Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool
Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?
Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?
What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?
Zenimax.....
The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.
These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.
Had to highlight part of your post.
If Skyrim was an MMO, and if it had hundreds of players running round doing what they wanted and killing who they wanted, there would be nothing to do but explore.
Every NPC in the game would be killed, there would be no quests, it would turn into an MMO version of deathmatch, and most players would hate it.
Skyrim works, and is great fun, because it is a single player RPG, just like the previous TES games.
So ESO is not the MMO equivalent of Skyrim (or any previous TES game), that does not automatically mean it is bad.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Originally posted by amalmer1 TES are not sandbox games. Minecraft is a sandbox game. As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system. Targeting is probably to help with lag. Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game. If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.
Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.
now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.
but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,
then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.
also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????
i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.
That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.
there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.
huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.
Originally posted by amalmer1 TES are not sandbox games. Minecraft is a sandbox game. As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system. Targeting is probably to help with lag. Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game. If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.
Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.
now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.
but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,
then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.
also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????
i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.
That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.
there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.
huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.
daggerfall kind of cheated, it wasnt pregenerated open world it had a grid num system that had dungeon entrance and towns, everything else was randomly generated, in the open world, same with dungeon exept for a few certain ones they where mostly randomly generated, this is why it was one of the first games of its generation to have a open world the way it did, not that it was bad it just cheated .
also to this day it was the only TES game that let you go to everypart of the empire.
well until TESO comes out.
P.S. i still play on a minecraft server and luv it
P.S.S. dagger fall was also the last game you could become a wereboar in, i kinda miss that.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game. I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....
Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.
One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.
Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool
Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?
Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?
What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?
Zenimax.....
The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.
These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.
Had to highlight part of your post.
If Skyrim was an MMO, and if it had hundreds of players running round doing what they wanted and killing who they wanted, there would be nothing to do but explore.
Every NPC in the game would be killed, there would be no quests, it would turn into an MMO version of deathmatch, and most players would hate it.
Skyrim works, and is great fun, because it is a single player RPG, just like the previous TES games.
So ESO is not the MMO equivalent of Skyrim (or any previous TES game), that does not automatically mean it is bad.
Heres the problem for me at least. Using the Elder Scrolls IP those not interested in the IP are going to write off the game automatically and those interested in the IP are going to expect a game at the very least in the spirit of previous TES games. What we have here is a game that is far to focused on bringing in non TES fans (Namely MMO fans) that are going to simply avoid it anyways due to the IP. Many TES fans are going to buy the game for the IP and hope that it doesn't stray to far from the spirit of the game.
In the end I get the feeling that this is a game thats going to do very well with initial sales due to the IP alone and then quickly dwindle due to failing to appeal to its player base.
When using widely popular IPs you are responsible for delivering something at least in the spirit of that IP. For me TESO is akin to writing a new Harry Potter book and making it a scifi instead. Its not a bad thing to try to get a larger fan base, but with something as established as this its hard to appeal to a different fan base all together and you increases risk of failure by trying to so there is no need to push aside your current fan base.
I guess I just don't understand, maybe its beyond me to understand. Making an MMO based off of The Edler Scrolls should be a sure thing as long as they at least stay true to the spirit of the IP. I don't understand taking such a gamble as this. To me it would seem harder to sale DAoC to Elder Scroll fans than to sale an Elder Scrolls game.
I guess I just don't understand, maybe its beyond me to understand. Making an MMO based off of The Edler Scrolls should be a sure thing as long as they at least stay true to the spirit of the IP.
I don't understand taking such a gamble as this. To me it would seem harder to sale DAoC to Elder Scroll fans than to sale an Elder Scrolls game.
a sand box game is a game that you can build withen, very loose definition but non the less the core of it, people do argue on the definition but meh, i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one) ( if you dont agree with my definition, meh like i said its a very argued subject.)
so in short your sacasm didnt offer any actual useful input, and in my personel definition of a sandbox TES has never been one.
In other words you have chosen your own definition of the word sandbox and will throw out anything placed in front of you because its a flexable one that will change with the wind.
Congrats. You also completely ignored what I ended with... and im sure we all know why.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by amalmer1 TES are not sandbox games. Minecraft is a sandbox game. As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system. Targeting is probably to help with lag. Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game. If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.
Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.
now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.
but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,
then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.
also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????
i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.
That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.
there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.
huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.
daggerfall kind of cheated, it wasnt pregenerated open world it had a grid num system that had dungeon entrance and towns, everything else was randomly generated, in the open world, same with dungeon exept for a few certain ones they where mostly randomly generated, this is why it was one of the first games of its generation to have a open world the way it did, not that it was bad it just cheated .
also to this day it was the only TES game that let you go to everypart of the empire.
well until TESO comes out.
P.S. i still play on a minecraft server and luv it
P.S.S. dagger fall was also the last game you could become a wereboar in, i kinda miss that.
Hee so did Captive *cheat* theres no man in this universe who could create that kind of worlds if not using random generators.
And i would like to see those kind of tools used in TESO,maybe little a bit of Minecraft also,and this and that.
PS. I like it,no other game where you can see ,grand fathers,veterans,tiny fire extinguishers ,grand mothers or or or playing together and laughing and hissing because they have so much fun together.
Doing 3 faction pvp right has been the envy of mmo devs since daoc was released, the details of the game are irrelevant. What is also irrelevant is your ultranationalist-style loyalty to whatever game you percieve as "best", I also really don't care.
All devs envy my favorite game even though nobody ever even tried to copy it and BTW, you, you are crazy loyal to your favorite game...
yep...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
This idea that TESO is just DAoC2 is just ridiculous. There are many differences. The main similarity is the endgame, with 3 alliances battling in a PvP zone. But that doesnt make it DAoC2, it just makes it an AvA endgame. I mean, if they didnt have much PvP but instead had a raid-focused endgame with high end gear which in turn allowed you to do even harder raids, would that make it WoW2? Because that is what this logic is implying.
For example a cornerstone of DAoC was the different classes across the 3 realms, which TES is doing away with entirely by giving all three alliances the same class options. And those 'class' options will be more open-ended than pretty much any mainstream MMORPG.
TESO is less DAoC2 than it is the anti-WoW, in that it will not have raids or arena PvP as the primary focus of the endgame. Also, TES is the anti-wow in that it will have a minimal quickbar, without tons of skills spread all across your screen. Instead the focus will be on how and when you use those skills to gain an advantage over your enemies. It will be a lot less choreographed (skill rotations and raid roles) and a lot more individual-skill based.
I really like what I see from TESO and I think people are making a big mistake trying to pigeonhole it as DAoC2. It has elements of MMORPGS and it also has many elements of TES. Yes the endgame is similar to DAoC but its beyond me why that isnt a good thing, because if you want a raid-based endgame, well there are plenty of MMORPGs that have that. Isnt it nice to have a choice? And if you wanted TES the MMORPG, well understand that there is no way any game will can be a MMORPG and still be just like TES. TES is great as a single player game but would be incredibly unbalanced as a MMORPG and with hundreds of people running around, the feel of the game would be entirely different. If you want TES play TES and if you want a MMORPG plan a MMORPG. They are trying to blend aspects of TES with aspects of MMORPGs and thats the best they can do.
a sand box game is a game that you can build withen, very loose definition but non the less the core of it, people do argue on the definition but meh, i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one) ( if you dont agree with my definition, meh like i said its a very argued subject.)
so in short your sacasm didnt offer any actual useful input, and in my personel definition of a sandbox TES has never been one.
In other words you have chosen your own definition of the word sandbox and will throw out anything placed in front of you because its a flexable one that will change with the wind.
Congrats. You also completely ignored what I ended with... and im sure we all know why.
Just google "MMO sandbox definition" It takes 10 min of reading to see TES was never a sandbox game. Players need a level of controle of a few things to be sandbox. The world, the story, their class and free form crafting. Some games will take sandbox ideas like housing but not the rest of what makes a PURE sandbox game. So TES had pure freedom to class, does that make it a sandbox game? No more then putting oregano in some eggs makes it an Italian dish. What % of sandbox would make a game a sandbox game? I am not a fan of sandbox games myself but I do like some Sandbox elelments and I like a game to be 80% themepark and 20% sandbox. What would you call that, themepark or sandbox? Well IMO because its mostly themepark its a themepark game. Thats where TES sits, mostly themepark.
ESO isnt a pure sandbox game, but it certainly isnt a themepark game. By definition any game that focuses on AvA as an endgame cant be themepark, because the players themselves will shape that content in a way that they do not shape scripted quests in a themepark. It is beyond me why people on MMORPG insist on pigeonholing every game, rather than look at the game for how its different and how its similar to other games.
Originally posted by Eol- ESO isnt a pure sandbox game, but it certainly isnt a themepark game. By definition any game that focuses on AvA as an endgame cant be themepark, because the players themselves will shape that content in a way that they do not shape scripted quests in a themepark. It is beyond me why people on MMORPG insist on pigeonholing every game, rather than look at the game for how its different and how its similar to other games.
AvA is themepark PvP lol. Sandbox PvP would mean we get to set the objectives, players would build the keeps and castle that got built. Loot would come from looting players. AvA tells us what to kill to get X reward. ESO is mostly themepark. Get one thing, to be sandbox players need to have some level of controle on the world and shape it to what they want. Only thing in ESO you can do that is classes, just like the root the game came from TES.
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)
LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.
Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.
As far as end game goes, the only similarity it has with DAOC is that is has a three faction conflct. Even the way it works is different. In DAOC, each faction had it's own frontier zone (Or battle zone). In TESO, it is all one large area. DAOC's conflict was server wide, where TESO is split into tons of campaigns on a megaserver with a large amount of instancing and phasing. DAOC had the famous milegates and keep capturing was fairly linear. It appears in TESO that you can go just about anywhere and capture anything. I'm willing to bet that in TESO, there will be not 'relic' capturing like in DAOC. In TESO it will be three factions fighting over an entire city. Rather than opening up 'Darkness Falls' by holding three relics, you will have to hold Imperial City, which will likely open up it's own quests and dungeons within the walls.
Is that enough of a difference to back some of you haters off? The only similarity, again, is the fact that there is a three faction conflict.
I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game. I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....
Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.
One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.
Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool
Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?
Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?
What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?
Zenimax.....
The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.
These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.
Bet you will buy the game anyway, because -again like so many times in the past- you are so bored when the game comes out, that you need to have it. Regardless.
You all who rant here will buy the game anyway. Mindlessly consuming is a trend. Otherwise you wouldnt even waste energy posting on such topics. You loooove drama, you loove to see yourself fail - but do you really want to change something? Yes, you want - but between having the desire and actually Making decisions lies a vast canyon.
Originally posted by Normandy7 I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.
Spoken like someone who is supporting CU and all its popular IP milking glory. Seen the CU kickstarter sig and knew immediately anything you had to say was biased and opinionated.
While I am extremely happy to see the ESO come to fruition I am not without apprehension. Still though, there are enough sandbox elements in the game that make me happy and I would trust Matt Firor to make a great RvR games a million times before I would trust Marc Jacobs.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)
LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.
Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.
Exactly right, hybrids are the future of MMO gaming. Add the fun of a themepark and remove the chafe of the sandbox and you have a good game.
I do not think you need to encourage Devs t odo this though, its pretty common knowledge now, especially considerign the success of GW2. Now that Devs have finally saw fit to throw of the yokes of the WoW Clone and try to innovate they see that successful hybridization is the way to go.....with us or without us so no need to encourage them, cause they know!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)
LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.
Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.
Exactly right, hybrids are the future of MMO gaming. Add the fun of a themepark and remove the chafe of the sandbox and you have a good game.
I do not think you need to encourage Devs t odo this though, its pretty common knowledge now, especially considerign the success of GW2. Now that Devs have finally saw fit to throw of the yokes of the WoW Clone and try to innovate they see that successful hybridization is the way to go.....with us or without us so no need to encourage them, cause they know!
I agree with this for the most part. I would like to add that it could be argued that the first bad game design decision would be to limit the game by forcing it's direction towards one or the other style of gameplay. Why play a limited game with a limited design concept.
I think as others have stated MMOS need to move past the black vs. white or the democrats vs. republicans mentality, and move towards games that are simply fun to play. I don't care if a game is sandbox or themepark ... if it is not fun to me why should I want to spend time playing it? The same philosophy needs to apply to the pricing model. A bad game is a bad game, whether it is f2p, p2p, b2p, or p2w is irrelevant at that point. Now I know the word "fun" is a subjective word and I intentionally use it as video games are a personal choice and since we are all individuals we tend to like or dislike different things. People may hate your favorite game, and that is a great thing as long as each enjoy the games we are playing. I would love to see people talk about game mechanics or game systems without resorting to pejoratives when talking about other people or different opinions.
Originally posted by Normandy7 I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.
With your sig its clear why you are knocking ESO. My guess is in the next 1-2 years people are going to look back at this kickstarter generation of games and wonder how they fell for giving hundrids and sometimes thousands of bucks to help make a game they should have paid no more then 60 bucks for.
I think the OP is being far too nitpicky too early. You want to see a guaranteed ruined series, play some Neverwinter. TESO is nowhere near that stage of fail........................yet.
Comments
i agree with nanfodle on smething??? *looks outside to makesure the world is still there,.
any way silliness aside i agree with this, and this is why i disagree that themeparks are dead games people are forgetting all the great one out there and only looking at the ones they dont like.
iv said it before but ill say it agian
in my opion sandbox games are games where you can manipulate the world, build in it, and adjust it.
haveing a game where you can not adjust the envirment and dont have quest , and then are told its up to you to make your quests and story. are not sandbox
games where the econamy is based mainly on players is not a sandbox ( or are we going to start calling WoW a sandbox)
games that have nothing in them story, depth, or things to do wise, and have no building aspect to it are not sandbox.
in my opion these are games that use the title of sandbox to make life easyier on them cause they dont actually have to make content for the game.
and dont tell me oh they have to make the tools to use, cause i hate to tell you this but the first thing most MMO Devs do is make those said tool for themselves.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.
now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.
but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,
Let's internet
then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.
also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????
i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Had to highlight part of your post.
If Skyrim was an MMO, and if it had hundreds of players running round doing what they wanted and killing who they wanted, there would be nothing to do but explore.
Every NPC in the game would be killed, there would be no quests, it would turn into an MMO version of deathmatch, and most players would hate it.
Skyrim works, and is great fun, because it is a single player RPG, just like the previous TES games.
So ESO is not the MMO equivalent of Skyrim (or any previous TES game), that does not automatically mean it is bad.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.
there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.
huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.
Let's internet
daggerfall kind of cheated, it wasnt pregenerated open world it had a grid num system that had dungeon entrance and towns, everything else was randomly generated, in the open world, same with dungeon exept for a few certain ones they where mostly randomly generated, this is why it was one of the first games of its generation to have a open world the way it did, not that it was bad it just cheated
.
also to this day it was the only TES game that let you go to everypart of the empire.
well until TESO comes out.
P.S. i still play on a minecraft server and luv it
P.S.S. dagger fall was also the last game you could become a wereboar in, i kinda miss that.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Heres the problem for me at least. Using the Elder Scrolls IP those not interested in the IP are going to write off the game automatically and those interested in the IP are going to expect a game at the very least in the spirit of previous TES games. What we have here is a game that is far to focused on bringing in non TES fans (Namely MMO fans) that are going to simply avoid it anyways due to the IP. Many TES fans are going to buy the game for the IP and hope that it doesn't stray to far from the spirit of the game.
In the end I get the feeling that this is a game thats going to do very well with initial sales due to the IP alone and then quickly dwindle due to failing to appeal to its player base.
When using widely popular IPs you are responsible for delivering something at least in the spirit of that IP. For me TESO is akin to writing a new Harry Potter book and making it a scifi instead. Its not a bad thing to try to get a larger fan base, but with something as established as this its hard to appeal to a different fan base all together and you increases risk of failure by trying to so there is no need to push aside your current fan base.
I guess I just don't understand, maybe its beyond me to understand. Making an MMO based off of The Edler Scrolls should be a sure thing as long as they at least stay true to the spirit of the IP. I don't understand taking such a gamble as this. To me it would seem harder to sale DAoC to Elder Scroll fans than to sale an Elder Scrolls game.
at least some incarnation is being made
a few years ago - remember this?
Todd Howard not interested in Elder Scrolls MMO
EQ2 fan sites
In other words you have chosen your own definition of the word sandbox and will throw out anything placed in front of you because its a flexable one that will change with the wind.
Congrats. You also completely ignored what I ended with... and im sure we all know why.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Hee so did Captive *cheat* theres no man in this universe who could create that kind of worlds if not using random generators.
And i would like to see those kind of tools used in TESO,maybe little a bit of Minecraft also,and this and that.
PS. I like it,no other game where you can see ,grand fathers,veterans,tiny fire extinguishers ,grand mothers or or or playing together and laughing and hissing because they have so much fun together.
Let's internet
All devs envy my favorite game even though nobody ever even tried to copy it and BTW, you, you are crazy loyal to your favorite game...
yep...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
This idea that TESO is just DAoC2 is just ridiculous. There are many differences. The main similarity is the endgame, with 3 alliances battling in a PvP zone. But that doesnt make it DAoC2, it just makes it an AvA endgame. I mean, if they didnt have much PvP but instead had a raid-focused endgame with high end gear which in turn allowed you to do even harder raids, would that make it WoW2? Because that is what this logic is implying.
For example a cornerstone of DAoC was the different classes across the 3 realms, which TES is doing away with entirely by giving all three alliances the same class options. And those 'class' options will be more open-ended than pretty much any mainstream MMORPG.
TESO is less DAoC2 than it is the anti-WoW, in that it will not have raids or arena PvP as the primary focus of the endgame. Also, TES is the anti-wow in that it will have a minimal quickbar, without tons of skills spread all across your screen. Instead the focus will be on how and when you use those skills to gain an advantage over your enemies. It will be a lot less choreographed (skill rotations and raid roles) and a lot more individual-skill based.
I really like what I see from TESO and I think people are making a big mistake trying to pigeonhole it as DAoC2. It has elements of MMORPGS and it also has many elements of TES. Yes the endgame is similar to DAoC but its beyond me why that isnt a good thing, because if you want a raid-based endgame, well there are plenty of MMORPGs that have that. Isnt it nice to have a choice? And if you wanted TES the MMORPG, well understand that there is no way any game will can be a MMORPG and still be just like TES. TES is great as a single player game but would be incredibly unbalanced as a MMORPG and with hundreds of people running around, the feel of the game would be entirely different. If you want TES play TES and if you want a MMORPG plan a MMORPG. They are trying to blend aspects of TES with aspects of MMORPGs and thats the best they can do.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
Just google "MMO sandbox definition" It takes 10 min of reading to see TES was never a sandbox game. Players need a level of controle of a few things to be sandbox. The world, the story, their class and free form crafting. Some games will take sandbox ideas like housing but not the rest of what makes a PURE sandbox game. So TES had pure freedom to class, does that make it a sandbox game? No more then putting oregano in some eggs makes it an Italian dish. What % of sandbox would make a game a sandbox game? I am not a fan of sandbox games myself but I do like some Sandbox elelments and I like a game to be 80% themepark and 20% sandbox. What would you call that, themepark or sandbox? Well IMO because its mostly themepark its a themepark game. Thats where TES sits, mostly themepark.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
AvA is themepark PvP lol. Sandbox PvP would mean we get to set the objectives, players would build the keeps and castle that got built. Loot would come from looting players. AvA tells us what to kill to get X reward. ESO is mostly themepark. Get one thing, to be sandbox players need to have some level of controle on the world and shape it to what they want. Only thing in ESO you can do that is classes, just like the root the game came from TES.
LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.
Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.
As far as end game goes, the only similarity it has with DAOC is that is has a three faction conflct. Even the way it works is different. In DAOC, each faction had it's own frontier zone (Or battle zone). In TESO, it is all one large area. DAOC's conflict was server wide, where TESO is split into tons of campaigns on a megaserver with a large amount of instancing and phasing. DAOC had the famous milegates and keep capturing was fairly linear. It appears in TESO that you can go just about anywhere and capture anything. I'm willing to bet that in TESO, there will be not 'relic' capturing like in DAOC. In TESO it will be three factions fighting over an entire city. Rather than opening up 'Darkness Falls' by holding three relics, you will have to hold Imperial City, which will likely open up it's own quests and dungeons within the walls.
Is that enough of a difference to back some of you haters off? The only similarity, again, is the fact that there is a three faction conflict.
Bet you will buy the game anyway, because -again like so many times in the past- you are so bored when the game comes out, that you need to have it. Regardless.
You all who rant here will buy the game anyway. Mindlessly consuming is a trend. Otherwise you wouldnt even waste energy posting on such topics. You loooove drama, you loove to see yourself fail - but do you really want to change something? Yes, you want - but between having the desire and actually Making decisions lies a vast canyon.
Spoken like someone who is supporting CU and all its popular IP milking glory. Seen the CU kickstarter sig and knew immediately anything you had to say was biased and opinionated.
While I am extremely happy to see the ESO come to fruition I am not without apprehension. Still though, there are enough sandbox elements in the game that make me happy and I would trust Matt Firor to make a great RvR games a million times before I would trust Marc Jacobs.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Exactly right, hybrids are the future of MMO gaming. Add the fun of a themepark and remove the chafe of the sandbox and you have a good game.
I do not think you need to encourage Devs t odo this though, its pretty common knowledge now, especially considerign the success of GW2. Now that Devs have finally saw fit to throw of the yokes of the WoW Clone and try to innovate they see that successful hybridization is the way to go.....with us or without us so no need to encourage them, cause they know!
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I agree with this for the most part. I would like to add that it could be argued that the first bad game design decision would be to limit the game by forcing it's direction towards one or the other style of gameplay. Why play a limited game with a limited design concept.
I think as others have stated MMOS need to move past the black vs. white or the democrats vs. republicans mentality, and move towards games that are simply fun to play. I don't care if a game is sandbox or themepark ... if it is not fun to me why should I want to spend time playing it? The same philosophy needs to apply to the pricing model. A bad game is a bad game, whether it is f2p, p2p, b2p, or p2w is irrelevant at that point. Now I know the word "fun" is a subjective word and I intentionally use it as video games are a personal choice and since we are all individuals we tend to like or dislike different things. People may hate your favorite game, and that is a great thing as long as each enjoy the games we are playing. I would love to see people talk about game mechanics or game systems without resorting to pejoratives when talking about other people or different opinions.
With your sig its clear why you are knocking ESO. My guess is in the next 1-2 years people are going to look back at this kickstarter generation of games and wonder how they fell for giving hundrids and sometimes thousands of bucks to help make a game they should have paid no more then 60 bucks for.