If I'm asking for people to name a AAA Kickstarter game that was fully funded by Kickstarter contributions, how is that telling anyone what to do with their money? Maybe I'm asking so I can check out one of these games myself. I've played FTL and now I'm playing Planet Explorers (and I will be backing it) but they are both far from being games I wouldn't normally see coming down the pipeline the traditional way.
Again I think you have me confused with someone else. I fully support the idea of putting your money where you mouth is. My problem stems from people that think KS funded games are above and beyond the types of games that we can currently find. And that's just not the case. Especially since a lot of the more famous devs and more prominent games on KS have either spawned or benefited from traditional way games have been developed in the past. Ironic ain't it?
I agree with you that to assume that just because a game is funded by KS that it will somehow be superior to a non KS funded game is just flat assed stupidity, ignorant at best.
The point that many of us are trying to make is that KS funded projects have a better chance of being "better" games because they won't have suits breathing down their neck trying to turn their vision into a freeze dried formulaic piece of crap.
The simple fact of the matter is the MMO industry has been ruined by investors who had/have no clue how the gaming industry works, and treated it the same way as they do the music or tv/movie industry, in which you can take a very basic formula and it is guaranteed to be a profit maker. With music thats the pop star, we will always have a justin bieber, or a boy band/girl band that makes freeze dried garbage because unfortunately tweens and young children are not exactly what you would call discerning consumers.
Same thing applies to movies. We'll always have some animal based, cutesy animated film, or 18th iteration of the same previous cutesy animated film to sell to parents so their young children can watch it 83 times in a row over the course of a month.
Look at TV shows. How many police procedurals are there? CSI is still going, Law and order are STILL GOING.
Unfortunately, outside of sports games, and to some extent FPS's, the gaming industry doesnt buy into that garbage. You can't just create a game thats for all intents 95% the same as the current best selling game and expect people will buy it. They'll just stick with the best selling game. This was proven with WOW. Why play the clone, if you've already invested time into the real deal.
Games like Age of Conan, Vanguard, Warhammer: Online, we all directly ruined due to the intervening of investors who dont know what they were doing. Kickstarter eliminates the possibility that some douchebag suit will force the company to make a drastic change to the game to increase their monetization, or whatever the term is. Kickstarter eliminates the idea that the first and foremost goal of making the game is to make money hand over fist. Thats not what entertainment is about.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Btw, why the hell do you think Kickstarter is so popular?
You think richard garriot couldn't get a loan from a bank? He's a millionaire.
The difference is that the bank is going to ask Garriot for guarantees and when Mr. Garriot's game goes belly up, the bank is gonig to say "Where's our money?", and if the bank doesn't see their money and return on investment, they'll come take Mr. Garriot's house and car.
No it isn't their job. They never said it was. That is what YOU are saying.
And yes they take a cut. As a delivery mechanism they make need to make their money in some way.
That's not only what I am saying, that is why the legal system is in place to protect the creditor.
When you lend money from a bank, that creditor, the bank, is protected. The creditor will ask for a return on their investment, and when that bank doesn't get a return on their investment or doesn't get their loan back, they will use all legal means, to get their credit.
The same things happens with a publisher, when a game company wants money but doesn't deliver, the publisher is protected, and will make sure they get their money back.
The same thing happened with 38 studios, the creditor was the local state, 38 studios went belly up and the state is protected, went through the legal system that protected their investment. The state that backed 38 studios went after 38 studios and all 38 studios assets were now state property, the legal system is in place to make something like this possible, it protects the creditor.
But kickstarter is not like this, kickstarter works like this, and I quote from their page:
"It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds."
This is why Kickstarter is so successful, because it actually removes any power the creditor has, and the way they do this is through kickstarter which takes 5% of the money in return for not going after them and the people who lose out are actually the creditors, the backers who have no legal legs to stand on once a project doesn't deliver.
Not only is kickstarter a scam, most people still don't realise it is a scam, even though plenty of people have explained why.
you keep saying kickstarter and loan. Are you in fact claiming that kickerstarter is legally a LOAN??????????? That would be very odd way to present your point.
How about thinking of kickstarter as being a patron for a given project? So that is a selfless act. Can you wrap your head around that? Or are you just about give and take? Perhaps just take? Let me know.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
You clearly have absolutely squat idea how investments work. Investments are a risk based business. You get 0 guarantees. none, whatsoever, unless you can prove criminal or civil negligence.
You have plenty of guarantees as a creditor, and not only that, you have the legal means to go after recipients.
Rhode island forced 38 studios to sell all their assets, the minute 38 studios went belly up Rhode island claimed all assets of 38 studios.
PC from 38 studios claimed by Rhode island:
A bank has the same power, if you actually don't give a loan + interest back to the bank when they lend you money, guess what? They'll come claim your house and car.
As a creditor on kickstarter you have 0 legal means to stand on and kickstarter does nothing to support their backers. And there have been plenty of scammers on kickstarter, kickstarter itself is a scam.
Jesus, INVESTMENTS and LOANS are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
You are NOT a bank, you are NOT a creditor.
And by the by, they come and take your car because you signed a contract stating the terms of your loan, and didnt abide by those terms. You pay X amount per month, they provide you with the initial lump sum to buy the car. In return they agree to charge you monthly and you pay X% APR on the loan.
Originally posted by Aerowyn look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make
But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?
No. Investors/suits do tend to get in the way, but that usually means that a game ends up coming out before its ready. Its going to be another year or two before we see the results. No one is being forced to back any given project. Everyone should be doing their own research, and making their own decisions.
you keep saying kickstarter and loan. Are you in fact claiming that kickerstarter is legally a LOAN??????????? That would be very odd way to present your point.
How about thinking of kickstarter as being a patron for a given project? So that is a selfless act. Can you wrap your head around that? Or are you just about give and take? Perhaps just take? Let me know.
It's an investment without guarantees.
Kickstarter is not a charity, or selfless act, kickstarter takes 5% of every backed project and backers want a return on their investment.
In the real world the creditor wants some form of protection, and the law is in place to give creditors like banks, publishers, governments protection.
The reason kickstarter is becoming more popular than banks and publishers, is because kickstarter doesn't protect the creditors, which removes any responsibility from the recipient.
You clearly have absolutely squat idea how investments work. Investments are a risk based business. You get 0 guarantees. none, whatsoever, unless you can prove criminal or civil negligence.
You have plenty of guarantees as a creditor, and not only that, you have the legal means to go after recipients.
Rhode island forced 38 studios to sell all their assets, the minute 38 studios went belly up Rhode island claimed all assets of 38 studios.
PC from 38 studios claimed by Rhode island:
A bank has the same power, if you actually don't give a loan + interest back to the bank when they lend you money, guess what? They'll come claim your house and car.
As a creditor on kickstarter you have 0 legal means to stand on and kickstarter does nothing to support their backers. And there have been plenty of scammers on kickstarter, kickstarter itself is a scam.
Jesus, INVESTMENTS and LOANS are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
Since when are they two totally different things. An investment is:
"the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns"
When banks give loans to companies that is exactly what they're doing, they want interest on their investment down the line.
Originally posted by Aerowyn look at when kickstarter opened up.. then think about how long an average game takes to make
But wouldn't that time get cut down seeing that a lot of those investor set deadlines would not be hindering nor pressuring the development team?
No. Investors/suits do tend to get in the way, but that usually means that a game ends up coming out before its ready. Its going to be another year or two before we see the results. No one is being forced to back any given project. Everyone should be doing their own research, and making their own decisions.
Oh I agree. And I corrected myself a few post back on the matter. I also would like to add that you're right, everyone should be doing their research and cannot force anyone to back a KS project. But when someone backs something they like and is compelled to state how "x" game is going to be so much better than the sh*t we have now being put out by the greedy, blah, blah, blah it gets a little laughable. So I created this thread to point out that there will be sh*t coming down the pipeline no matter where the funding is coming from. And for me KS is a means for a game that would NOT otherwise be made because of the lack of investor interest. Nothing more, nothing less. But to here these rock star devs tell the story is like listening to politicians asking for donations to change the world.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
You clearly have absolutely squat idea how investments work. Investments are a risk based business. You get 0 guarantees. none, whatsoever, unless you can prove criminal or civil negligence.
You have plenty of guarantees as a creditor, and not only that, you have the legal means to go after recipients.
Rhode island forced 38 studios to sell all their assets, the minute 38 studios went belly up Rhode island claimed all assets of 38 studios.
PC from 38 studios claimed by Rhode island:
A bank has the same power, if you actually don't give a loan + interest back to the bank when they lend you money, guess what? They'll come claim your house and car.
As a creditor on kickstarter you have 0 legal means to stand on and kickstarter does nothing to support their backers. And there have been plenty of scammers on kickstarter, kickstarter itself is a scam.
Jesus, INVESTMENTS and LOANS are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
Since when are they two totally different things. An investment is:
"the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns"
When banks give loans to companies that is exactly what they're doing, they want interest on their investment down the line.
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made. Not that hard of concept to accept here is it? If they don't come through with what they are "selling", they pretty much will take all credibility away from them as a person and would probably never get back into the industry. Yes they can take your money and run or never finish a product but what about big publishers that release game like SimCity? They give you another game for free and say sorry and its all better? They brush it off like it never happend and the people will still buy what they are selling without question.
These are also the people who are the least able to understand (and cope with) the loss if / when projects fail.
In answer to the OP - there have been some interesting links here - FTL would be classed as a definite success.
I can think of two others I am 99% confident will ship
The Double Fine Adventure - this will ship because the Double Fine studio's name rests on it.
However, technically, the game portion of the kickstarter has failed since it is over time and over budget. Although, Tim Schafer was clear in the pitch that the game could be a disaster but we would get to see the making of either way - and that goal has been met.
Elite Dangerous - this project was already well advanced when the Kickstarter was created. My bet is they could ship a playable game today if they had too (it just wouldn't be very good yet) and again a studio's reputation rests on it.
But the others are very much a turkey shoot.
I would be interested to see (in about a year) a success to failure ratio for Kickstarter software projects. But even that might be misleading since even releasing a crappy game would count as a release.
But yes, Kickstarter doesn't care about backers. One recent project has broken a number of kickstarters guidelines
Kickstarter is not 'policing' the projects properly IMHO - and while they (perhaps) have no legal or moral obligation to do so - NOT doing so will ulimately lead to a loss of faith in the idea.
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
What difference does it make and how does it affect you?
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
What difference does it make?
Well there has to be some kind of incentive to prefer kickstarter, why are so many developers flocking to kickstarter, even big names?
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
Because of the problem he had with NCsoft that you just mentioned. Duh?
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
What difference does it make?
Well there has to be some kind of incentive to prefer kickstarter, why are so many developers flocking to kickstarter, even big names?
Why, can't come up with a reason?
It really doesnt concern me as a person that is interested in the game about how they are getting the money for it. I have lost faith in the big publishers to deliver something that interestes me as of late because of the crap they are allowed to release without repercussions of more than a oops sorry here take this free hand out and stfu and like it. So I'm willing to go around them and see how the developers can do it with help from us or on their own.
He earned the money for what he got and you really think nothing is coming out of his pocket to create the game?
you keep saying kickstarter and loan. Are you in fact claiming that kickerstarter is legally a LOAN??????????? That would be very odd way to present your point.
How about thinking of kickstarter as being a patron for a given project? So that is a selfless act. Can you wrap your head around that? Or are you just about give and take? Perhaps just take? Let me know.
It's an investment without guarantees.
Kickstarter is not a charity, or selfless act, kickstarter takes 5% of every backed project and backers want a return on their investment.
In the real world the creditor wants some form of protection, and the law is in place to give creditors like banks, publishers, governments protection.
The reason kickstarter is becoming more popular than banks and publishers, is because kickstarter doesn't protect the creditors, which removes any responsibility from the recipient.
You need to go back to school, or take some classes on finances. This is getting absurd. You can't seem to get that loans and investments are not the same friggin thing.
And btw, every time you use your credit card, mastercard or visa or whoever is on your card charges your bank a %fee on each transaction. They do this because they administer the network that provides the bank with the nationwide service/ability to have a credit card network. This is a sound business strategy because the local bank of bumfuck, idaho can not realistically create and administer their own credit card network.
Kickstarted keeps a percentage of the project's money because they are providing the website, the hosting, covering the costs and administration of collecting, keeping track of all monies involved, handling all the backend financial crap, etc etc.
5% is not even remotely close to an unreasonable amount to ask for what they are doing.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Kickstarted keeps a percentage of the project's money because they are providing the website, the hosting, covering the costs and administration of collecting, keeping track of all monies involved, handling all the backend financial crap, etc etc.
5% is not even remotely close to an unreasonable amount to ask for what they are doing.
They take 5% of projects that go for $10 million + each. They are making a killing.
Hosting a site...get out. I can host a site for $100 a month.
They have one job, 1, to protect their backers, and they have never once done this, not once have they used legals means at their disposal to protect backers.
And I'll tell you why, because that's why big companies go to kickstarter, because it's a no-risk affair. That's how the ball keeps rolling, it will keep rolling until backers start to realise they have 0 guarantess that their investment is protected.
Because of the problem he had with NCsoft that you just mentioned. Duh?
That's no reason, his house alone is enough mortgage to easily get a loan.
He has huge assets in the bank, he could have easily funded the project himself if he wanted.
Why kickstarter then.
It seams to be a reason enough, he had sucha big problem with a publisher that he charged them 28million for a load of stuff they did to his image and all that.
Im not richard garriot but if a publisher did what they did to him i wouldnt trust them either again.
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
What difference does it make?
Well there has to be some kind of incentive to prefer kickstarter, why are so many developers flocking to kickstarter, even big names?
Why, can't come up with a reason?
Because Kickstarter puts the developers in direct contact with the very people that want their game. It allows them to build a dedicated community with a real desire for the game to succeed while raising the money to actually create the game. It also allows them to "test the waters" to see just how much interest there is out there in their concepts. Only kickstarter provides all of this in one establish website. It puts the developers and their potential customers on the same page at the very start of the development cycle. There has never been anything to put game developers and customers this close on this many levels in the history of gaming. These are the reasons why they are using Kickstarter.
Kickstarted keeps a percentage of the project's money because they are providing the website, the hosting, covering the costs and administration of collecting, keeping track of all monies involved, handling all the backend financial crap, etc etc.
5% is not even remotely close to an unreasonable amount to ask for what they are doing.
They take 5% of projects that go for $10 million + each. They are making a killing.
Hosting a site...get out. I can host a site for $100 a month.
They have one job, 1, to protect their backers, and they have never once done this, not once have they used legals means at their disposal to protect backers.
And I'll tell you why, because that's why big companies go to kickstarter, because it's a no-risk affair. That's how the ball keeps rolling, it will keep rolling until backers start to realise they have 0 guarantess that their investment is protected.
where in heavens name are you pulling out those numbers? 10m? the only one close to that is the ouya which is about 8.5m, everyother is below 4.2m and there are only 16 games that are over 1million, this is out of thousands of kickstarter projects.
Kickstarted keeps a percentage of the project's money because they are providing the website, the hosting, covering the costs and administration of collecting, keeping track of all monies involved, handling all the backend financial crap, etc etc.
5% is not even remotely close to an unreasonable amount to ask for what they are doing.
They take 5% of projects that go for $10 million + each. They are making a killing.
Hosting a site...get out. I can host a site for $100 a month.
They have one job, 1, to protect their backers, and they have never once done this, not once have they used legals means at their disposal to protect backers.
And I'll tell you why, because that's why big companies go to kickstarter, because it's a no-risk affair. That's how the ball keeps rolling, it will keep rolling until backers start to realise they have 0 guarantess that their investment is protected.
where in heavens name are you pulling out those numbers? 10m? the only one close to that is the ouya which is about 8.5m, everyother is below 4.2m and there are only 16 games that are over 1million, this is out of thousands of kickstarter projects.
Kickstarted keeps a percentage of the project's money because they are providing the website, the hosting, covering the costs and administration of collecting, keeping track of all monies involved, handling all the backend financial crap, etc etc.
5% is not even remotely close to an unreasonable amount to ask for what they are doing.
They take 5% of projects that go for $10 million + each. They are making a killing.
Hosting a site...get out. I can host a site for $100 a month.
They have one job, 1, to protect their backers, and they have never once done this, not once have they used legals means at their disposal to protect backers.
And I'll tell you why, because that's why big companies go to kickstarter, because it's a no-risk affair. That's how the ball keeps rolling, it will keep rolling until backers start to realise they have 0 guarantess that their investment is protected.
5% for matching up projects and backers seems reasonable to me. I'm not at all interested in any "guarantee". I never back any project with money I can't afford to lose. I can always get more money. What I can't get is interesting, entertaining games to play. Its a matter of value. I value that possibility, more than I do the money I use to back a given project.
As for the rest, Kickstarter will keep going, until there is more than minor money involved. At that point, the banks and investors will demand that their bought and paid for politicians "do something", to "protect" backers from the e-vile wiles of the people who are cutting out the middle men (banks and investors).
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
...
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
You seroiusly don't know?
It's not about the money... it's about the marketing:
Comments
I agree with you that to assume that just because a game is funded by KS that it will somehow be superior to a non KS funded game is just flat assed stupidity, ignorant at best.
The point that many of us are trying to make is that KS funded projects have a better chance of being "better" games because they won't have suits breathing down their neck trying to turn their vision into a freeze dried formulaic piece of crap.
The simple fact of the matter is the MMO industry has been ruined by investors who had/have no clue how the gaming industry works, and treated it the same way as they do the music or tv/movie industry, in which you can take a very basic formula and it is guaranteed to be a profit maker. With music thats the pop star, we will always have a justin bieber, or a boy band/girl band that makes freeze dried garbage because unfortunately tweens and young children are not exactly what you would call discerning consumers.
Same thing applies to movies. We'll always have some animal based, cutesy animated film, or 18th iteration of the same previous cutesy animated film to sell to parents so their young children can watch it 83 times in a row over the course of a month.
Look at TV shows. How many police procedurals are there? CSI is still going, Law and order are STILL GOING.
Unfortunately, outside of sports games, and to some extent FPS's, the gaming industry doesnt buy into that garbage. You can't just create a game thats for all intents 95% the same as the current best selling game and expect people will buy it. They'll just stick with the best selling game. This was proven with WOW. Why play the clone, if you've already invested time into the real deal.
Games like Age of Conan, Vanguard, Warhammer: Online, we all directly ruined due to the intervening of investors who dont know what they were doing. Kickstarter eliminates the possibility that some douchebag suit will force the company to make a drastic change to the game to increase their monetization, or whatever the term is. Kickstarter eliminates the idea that the first and foremost goal of making the game is to make money hand over fist. Thats not what entertainment is about.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Btw, why the hell do you think Kickstarter is so popular?
You think richard garriot couldn't get a loan from a bank? He's a millionaire.
The difference is that the bank is going to ask Garriot for guarantees and when Mr. Garriot's game goes belly up, the bank is gonig to say "Where's our money?", and if the bank doesn't see their money and return on investment, they'll come take Mr. Garriot's house and car.
That's why kicstarter is popular.
you keep saying kickstarter and loan. Are you in fact claiming that kickerstarter is legally a LOAN??????????? That would be very odd way to present your point.
How about thinking of kickstarter as being a patron for a given project? So that is a selfless act. Can you wrap your head around that? Or are you just about give and take? Perhaps just take? Let me know.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Jesus, INVESTMENTS and LOANS are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.
You are NOT a bank, you are NOT a creditor.
And by the by, they come and take your car because you signed a contract stating the terms of your loan, and didnt abide by those terms. You pay X amount per month, they provide you with the initial lump sum to buy the car. In return they agree to charge you monthly and you pay X% APR on the loan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Studios
the company moved to Rhode Island as part of securing $75 million in loans from that state's quasi-public Economic Development Corporation (EDC).
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
No. Investors/suits do tend to get in the way, but that usually means that a game ends up coming out before its ready. Its going to be another year or two before we see the results. No one is being forced to back any given project. Everyone should be doing their own research, and making their own decisions.
It's an investment without guarantees.
Kickstarter is not a charity, or selfless act, kickstarter takes 5% of every backed project and backers want a return on their investment.
In the real world the creditor wants some form of protection, and the law is in place to give creditors like banks, publishers, governments protection.
The reason kickstarter is becoming more popular than banks and publishers, is because kickstarter doesn't protect the creditors, which removes any responsibility from the recipient.
Since when are they two totally different things. An investment is:
"the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns"
When banks give loans to companies that is exactly what they're doing, they want interest on their investment down the line.
Oh I agree. And I corrected myself a few post back on the matter. I also would like to add that you're right, everyone should be doing their research and cannot force anyone to back a KS project. But when someone backs something they like and is compelled to state how "x" game is going to be so much better than the sh*t we have now being put out by the greedy, blah, blah, blah it gets a little laughable. So I created this thread to point out that there will be sh*t coming down the pipeline no matter where the funding is coming from. And for me KS is a means for a game that would NOT otherwise be made because of the lack of investor interest. Nothing more, nothing less. But to here these rock star devs tell the story is like listening to politicians asking for donations to change the world.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
You really love banks, after all they are why the whole world is in shit today. Banks are good in theory but when you put people in charge of them they turn to shit.
Kickstarter is not a bank, you can donate money and usually pre purchase a game you would ilke to see be made. Not that hard of concept to accept here is it? If they don't come through with what they are "selling", they pretty much will take all credibility away from them as a person and would probably never get back into the industry. Yes they can take your money and run or never finish a product but what about big publishers that release game like SimCity? They give you another game for free and say sorry and its all better? They brush it off like it never happend and the people will still buy what they are selling without question.
I agree that the Kickstarter bubble will burst.
We are reaching the point where many projects are supposed to ship... and aren't... and it looks like several might fold.
And there are people like some of those in this thread - http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/381710/Backer-but-worried.html - put up money without really having a serious think about what they were doing or what there money was for or the state of the project.
These are also the people who are the least able to understand (and cope with) the loss if / when projects fail.
In answer to the OP - there have been some interesting links here - FTL would be classed as a definite success.
I can think of two others I am 99% confident will ship
The Double Fine Adventure - this will ship because the Double Fine studio's name rests on it.
However, technically, the game portion of the kickstarter has failed since it is over time and over budget. Although, Tim Schafer was clear in the pitch that the game could be a disaster but we would get to see the making of either way - and that goal has been met.
Elite Dangerous - this project was already well advanced when the Kickstarter was created. My bet is they could ship a playable game today if they had too (it just wouldn't be very good yet) and again a studio's reputation rests on it.
But the others are very much a turkey shoot.
I would be interested to see (in about a year) a success to failure ratio for Kickstarter software projects. But even that might be misleading since even releasing a crappy game would count as a release.
But yes, Kickstarter doesn't care about backers. One recent project has broken a number of kickstarters guidelines
http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines
and yet it continues.
Kickstarter is not 'policing' the projects properly IMHO - and while they (perhaps) have no legal or moral obligation to do so - NOT doing so will ulimately lead to a loss of faith in the idea.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Kickstarter is not a charity, don't compare it to donations. Kickstarter takes 5% of every project.
Richard Garriot is a millionaire.
NCSoft was forced to give him $28 million dollars in 2010 in court.
His mansion.
Let me ask you this, Richard Garriot could have easily gotten money from a bank for his game, he could have easily done a better deal than 5% kickstarter is asking for.
Why did Garriot go to Kickstarter instead of to a bank or publisher?
What difference does it make and how does it affect you?
Well there has to be some kind of incentive to prefer kickstarter, why are so many developers flocking to kickstarter, even big names?
Why, can't come up with a reason?
Because of the problem he had with NCsoft that you just mentioned. Duh?
That's no reason, his house alone is enough mortgage to easily get a loan.
He has huge assets in the bank, he could have easily funded the project himself if he wanted.
Why kickstarter then.
It really doesnt concern me as a person that is interested in the game about how they are getting the money for it. I have lost faith in the big publishers to deliver something that interestes me as of late because of the crap they are allowed to release without repercussions of more than a oops sorry here take this free hand out and stfu and like it. So I'm willing to go around them and see how the developers can do it with help from us or on their own.
He earned the money for what he got and you really think nothing is coming out of his pocket to create the game?
You need to go back to school, or take some classes on finances. This is getting absurd. You can't seem to get that loans and investments are not the same friggin thing.
And btw, every time you use your credit card, mastercard or visa or whoever is on your card charges your bank a %fee on each transaction. They do this because they administer the network that provides the bank with the nationwide service/ability to have a credit card network. This is a sound business strategy because the local bank of bumfuck, idaho can not realistically create and administer their own credit card network.
Kickstarted keeps a percentage of the project's money because they are providing the website, the hosting, covering the costs and administration of collecting, keeping track of all monies involved, handling all the backend financial crap, etc etc.
5% is not even remotely close to an unreasonable amount to ask for what they are doing.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
They take 5% of projects that go for $10 million + each. They are making a killing.
Hosting a site...get out. I can host a site for $100 a month.
They have one job, 1, to protect their backers, and they have never once done this, not once have they used legals means at their disposal to protect backers.
And I'll tell you why, because that's why big companies go to kickstarter, because it's a no-risk affair. That's how the ball keeps rolling, it will keep rolling until backers start to realise they have 0 guarantess that their investment is protected.
It seams to be a reason enough, he had sucha big problem with a publisher that he charged them 28million for a load of stuff they did to his image and all that.
Im not richard garriot but if a publisher did what they did to him i wouldnt trust them either again.
Because Kickstarter puts the developers in direct contact with the very people that want their game. It allows them to build a dedicated community with a real desire for the game to succeed while raising the money to actually create the game. It also allows them to "test the waters" to see just how much interest there is out there in their concepts. Only kickstarter provides all of this in one establish website. It puts the developers and their potential customers on the same page at the very start of the development cycle. There has never been anything to put game developers and customers this close on this many levels in the history of gaming. These are the reasons why they are using Kickstarter.
Bren
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Oh please. Pull the heart strings on someone else.
This is about low risk money, nothing else.
where in heavens name are you pulling out those numbers? 10m? the only one close to that is the ouya which is about 8.5m, everyother is below 4.2m and there are only 16 games that are over 1million, this is out of thousands of kickstarter projects.
It was 8 million, not 10, you got me.
I'm sure they're filling their pockets just fine.
5% for matching up projects and backers seems reasonable to me. I'm not at all interested in any "guarantee". I never back any project with money I can't afford to lose. I can always get more money. What I can't get is interesting, entertaining games to play. Its a matter of value. I value that possibility, more than I do the money I use to back a given project.
As for the rest, Kickstarter will keep going, until there is more than minor money involved. At that point, the banks and investors will demand that their bought and paid for politicians "do something", to "protect" backers from the e-vile wiles of the people who are cutting out the middle men (banks and investors).
You seroiusly don't know?
It's not about the money... it's about the marketing:
http://www.cf-publishing.com/international/
http://www.cf-publishing.com
Obviously 5% of is considered cheap to establish a worldwide viral marketing buzz.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.