Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work.
This is not a website for a developing game. This is a website for a game seeking funding for development. They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed.
All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles. If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.
So guess what that makes you.
Once again "peopel" confusing how selling an idea works.
This is a website intended to sell their idea of the game to help their KS. This has all the information it needs somewhere lost in that mess of a webpage, but it is a pain to navigate through. They do not have to create videos/screenshots/art assets - they're already there together with all the information. However, the website is a complete mess for a regular person (a.k.a. not a fanboy) who may or mayl not want to donate.
Like any one who actually understood the post, it is a critique on what they can do to improve their site to help sell their idea.
That makes you ignorant of what the topic is for. You are summarily high-handed with a post that is utterly irrelevant and invalidated.
I think most people do not go to a developers website to get continous coverage of an upcoming game, they go to community sites and gaming news sites like this to gather information on a game. I personally go to a game's website maybe a handful of times, but usually only once and that's to register and sign up for a beta, after that I don't bother goign to their site again because any information I would need would be provided for else where.
Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work.
This is not a website for a developing game. This is a website for a game seeking funding for development. They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed.
All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles. If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.
So guess what that makes you.
and this high handed atitude is where the real issue is.
the problem here is the difficulty for average people to get iinformation wwho arnt already intrested in the game, because until you become intrested in it you wont do research on it, so unless someone gets you intrested you wont ever become that.
saying that thats its not thier problem is just wrong because it is, by not putting on clear concise information for non fan boys to understand you are cutting off huge amount off possable intrest and more backers.
ANY person looking to get someone to invest in thier project would have out togther a good portfolio before presenting it, why should the gameing community as a whole not get the same respect.
Because there cannot be a portfolio without backing first. That's what we're here for.
If someone wants information to get interested in the game, all that should attract the right community is there.
Not convinced? Then CU is not for you, move on and get out.
Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.
I thought you prepared and presented the portfolio before getting hired for the job, not the other way around. :
And you don't know how potentially damning your unconditional faith is during this critical time.
Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work.
This is not a website for a developing game. This is a website for a game seeking funding for development. They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed.
All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles. If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.
So guess what that makes you.
and this high handed atitude is where the real issue is.
the problem here is the difficulty for average people to get iinformation wwho arnt already intrested in the game, because until you become intrested in it you wont do research on it, so unless someone gets you intrested you wont ever become that.
saying that thats its not thier problem is just wrong because it is, by not putting on clear concise information for non fan boys to understand you are cutting off huge amount off possable intrest and more backers.
ANY person looking to get someone to invest in thier project would have out togther a good portfolio before presenting it, why should the gameing community as a whole not get the same respect.
Because there cannot be a portfolio without backing first. That's what we're here for.
If someone wants information to get interested in the game, all that should attract the right community is there.
Not convinced? Then CU is not for you, move on and get out.
Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.
That website doesn't need to be a portfolio, it needs to be a presentation/business plan that is easy to read, informative, and doesn't require me to have to dig for information.
You seem to be rather defensive, which is very counterpoductive at this point. At this stage you are selling nothing more than an idea for a game. Having an attitude of "well, if someone doesn't want to be bothered with reading wall after wall of (mostly) pointless text, who needs 'em anyway" is simply the wrong way to look at it. The fact is that you DO need them if you want their money. You need to SELL them your idea and CONVINCE them to give you their money and be APPRECIATIVE about it. The OP was right in his assessment. Clearly these guys need someone who knows a bit about sellsmanship on their team.
I think most people do not go to a developers website to get continous coverage of an upcoming game, they go to community sites and gaming news sites like this to gather information on a game. I personally go to a game's website maybe a handful of times, but usually only once and that's to register and sign up for a beta, after that I don't bother goign to their site again because any information I would need would be provided for else where.
this is normaly true, but in this instance when it is supp[osed to assist in the raiseing of funds to begin the production of a game it turnsinto something else, you cant honestly expect people to invest money in somehting without being
1. already heavly involved or dedicated
or
2. gaining lots of informatin first, adn people dont want to ahve to dig for information for soemthing when it is them giveing the money and not the other way around.
this lack of foresite has probaly cost a ton of money already, as people who look at it to see what its all about , and find it lacking in easy to find and understand information.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work.
This is not a website for a developing game. This is a website for a game seeking funding for development. They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed.
All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles. If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.
So guess what that makes you.
and this high handed atitude is where the real issue is.
the problem here is the difficulty for average people to get iinformation wwho arnt already intrested in the game, because until you become intrested in it you wont do research on it, so unless someone gets you intrested you wont ever become that.
saying that thats its not thier problem is just wrong because it is, by not putting on clear concise information for non fan boys to understand you are cutting off huge amount off possable intrest and more backers.
ANY person looking to get someone to invest in thier project would have out togther a good portfolio before presenting it, why should the gameing community as a whole not get the same respect.
Because there cannot be a portfolio without backing first. That's what we're here for.
If someone wants information to get interested in the game, all that should attract the right community is there.
Not convinced? Then CU is not for you, move on and get out.
Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.
Basically they're just aiming for people who would be all up in attention like meerkats on the mention of the words "Camelot", or "Dark Age of Camelot". They're not interested at all into making a backer out of someone, like say, me, who hasn't played or even heard of DAoC until a year ago.
They only need the money from fanboys to get the project up and running and maybe they'll start attracting "outsiders" some time later.
Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work.
This is not a website for a developing game. This is a website for a game seeking funding for development. They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed.
All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles. If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.
So guess what that makes you.
and this high handed atitude is where the real issue is.
the problem here is the difficulty for average people to get iinformation wwho arnt already intrested in the game, because until you become intrested in it you wont do research on it, so unless someone gets you intrested you wont ever become that.
saying that thats its not thier problem is just wrong because it is, by not putting on clear concise information for non fan boys to understand you are cutting off huge amount off possable intrest and more backers.
ANY person looking to get someone to invest in thier project would have out togther a good portfolio before presenting it, why should the gameing community as a whole not get the same respect.
Because there cannot be a portfolio without backing first. That's what we're here for.
If someone wants information to get interested in the game, all that should attract the right community is there.
Not convinced? Then CU is not for you, move on and get out.
Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.
That website doesn't need to be a portfolio, it needs to be a presentation/business plan that is easy to read, informative, and doesn't require me to have to dig for information.
You seem to be rather defensive, which is very counterpoductive at this point. At this stage you are selling nothing more than an idea for a game. Having an attitude of "well, if someone doesn't want to be bothered with reading wall after wall of (mostly) pointless text, who needs 'em anyway" is simply the wrong way to look at it. The fact is that you DO need them if you want their money. You need to SELL them your idea and CONVINCE them to give you their money and be APPRECIATIVE about it. The OP was right in his assessment. Clearly these guys need someone who knows a bit about sellsmanship on their team.
The only people who donate to kickstarters for mmos know about mmos and who this guy is.
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Starting a post by calling people stupid isn't usually the most constructive way to convert people to your school of thought.
And while I definitely have problems with a number of choices regarding their website that I will not go into, I understand why they made some of those choices.
A big thing that seems to be an issue with their site is the Features section which seems to immediately be interpreted as game features, not website features. If you (in a general sense, not you specifically) think of it more in terms of the latter and understand that the game does not exist as anything other than a group of ideas and principles with a few pieces of art here and there then things would be much nicer. And I do admit that this may not be clear unless a user does some reading beforehand to understand the current state of the project but jumping to conclusions also never helped anybody anyway.
At this point the site isn't about a game, it is about a project that will ultimately become a game if Kickstarter is successful. Game features doesn't really exist as a section because game features themselves do not really exist. Anyone going to the site to find out more about a game that does not exist yet and in fact might not ever exist needs to take a step back and realize they are looking for the wrong information.
Now if all this was clearly presented as such there may be less confusion and perhaps less people becoming upset at or distrustful of the project but that can still be accomplished through the community of supporters providing as much help as possible.
I wonder if the people who are QQing because some of us are offering rather useful advise on how to bring in more donations, did you ever stop to think that we might have been interested in donating, if we knew what it was we were donating to, exactly (or at least generally?) These aren't flames or trolling, it's a discussion on how they could better bring in doners to their KS.
I have to admit I was a bit shocked to see the website looked quite that unorganized and , well , amateurish.
Not knocking the project , as I played DAOC quite a bit at launch (OP'd smite clerics were a joy) , and hoping this does well , but I assumed they would put a slight more bit of effort into their website.
(and a bit scary how any dare mention of anything bad about this yet to be started game gets early beta forums of Vanguard fanboism brought out , and I thought no crowd would ever approach the looney I saw on those forums with the zealout defenders)
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Pretty much summed it up perfectly.
The OP is concerned about any potential backers losing interest quickly after browsing the webpage which seems to be lacking proper presentation. Thats it.....
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Pretty much summed it up perfectly.
The OP is concerned about any potential backers losing interest quickly after browsing the webpage which seems to be lacking proper presentation. Thats it.....
The mentality currently is "Shut up and pledge, if it even LOOKS like you may say something negative you are the enemy and we will attack!" lol.
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Pretty much summed it up perfectly.
The OP is concerned about any potential backers losing interest quickly after browsing the webpage which seems to be lacking proper presentation. Thats it.....
The mentality currently is "Shut up and pledge, if it even LOOKS like you may say something negative you are the enemy and we will attack!" lol.
Sadly it seems the case , and blind fanaticism always turns out to make a good game.
I'm excited about what this game could be, so I pledged. And at a fairly high level. But I've been excited since I started hearing about it and was chomping at the bit to get in on the ground floor.
I also recognize that there are people out there who will be much more cautious than me, who need a bit of substance instead of just hope and promise--I'm an optimist. Other's are more pessimistic/skeptical and that's absolutely fine. If we can get it funded with just us optimists, then there's not much harm done. However, it would likely be much better to show the skeptics that there is value in this project.
So I can see the issues with the website. I think the OP was a bit harsher than necessary, but that's how some people operate I suppose. Still, the point--that the website is weak--is valid IMO. I don't go there looking for info at all. I gave up on that early on. I get most of my info from the interviews and posts on various websites and I have to admit it's annoyingly tough to keep up on all of it. It would be great to have the info collected and well organized in one place, and the logical place for that is on their website.
I understand that the game isn't in development yet. It's just in the idea stages. But the website could definitely be much more useful as an advertisement for potential backers. I also understand that would be very tough to do though. Even the name of the game is supposedly likely to change. Even one of the realms (Arthurians) is subject to change.
In the end, I don't know that a website as well fleshed out as the OP seems to want, or even as well as I might like, is realistic right now. But what should be there is a basic design document, saying, in very simple terms and in as few words as possible, what the game is supposed to be about and what the general ideas are, then end with asking for support to bring the vision to reality, while explaining what's in it for the backers. A short sales pitch, if you will.
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Pretty much summed it up perfectly.
The OP is concerned about any potential backers losing interest quickly after browsing the webpage which seems to be lacking proper presentation. Thats it.....
The mentality currently is "Shut up and pledge, if it even LOOKS like you may say something negative you are the enemy and we will attack!" lol.
Sadly it seems the case , and blind fanaticism always turns out to make a good game.
Yeah, it seems to have worked for Darkfall and Mortal Online.
BTW, I wouldn't expect them to have a professional website yet. The game is barely anything more than someone's drunken scrawling on a bar napkin at this point.
Originally posted by Grunty Nit picking is not brutal. It's just nit picking.
Or they can have the decency to review their website and make sure it's complete before they release it. They need to give players a reason to care about their game. Principles and concept art don't matter. Show me the gameplay, show me the controls. Don't show me mocked up media or stories. Do that after I'm sold on the actual thing I will be playing.
Originally posted by Grunty Nit picking is not brutal. It's just nit picking.
Or they can have the decency to review their website and make sure it's complete before they release it. They need to give players a reason to care about their game. Principles and concept art don't matter. Show me the gameplay, show me the controls. Don't show me mocked up media or stories. Do that after I'm sold on the actual thing I will be playing.
You are looking for substance, that is understandable if a game exists. In this case it does not, the game only exists as a group of ideas backed by knowledge gained through experience. Much of it is simply information that is found in the interviews, the site, the kickstarter page and its updates. They cannot show you something that does not yet exist and once it does exist it seems to be shown in an update as soon as they can. The point of the kickstarter project is to help bring the game into existence.
Comments
Once again "peopel" confusing how selling an idea works.
This is a website intended to sell their idea of the game to help their KS. This has all the information it needs somewhere lost in that mess of a webpage, but it is a pain to navigate through. They do not have to create videos/screenshots/art assets - they're already there together with all the information. However, the website is a complete mess for a regular person (a.k.a. not a fanboy) who may or mayl not want to donate.
Like any one who actually understood the post, it is a critique on what they can do to improve their site to help sell their idea.
That makes you ignorant of what the topic is for. You are summarily high-handed with a post that is utterly irrelevant and invalidated.
I think most people do not go to a developers website to get continous coverage of an upcoming game, they go to community sites and gaming news sites like this to gather information on a game. I personally go to a game's website maybe a handful of times, but usually only once and that's to register and sign up for a beta, after that I don't bother goign to their site again because any information I would need would be provided for else where.
I thought you prepared and presented the portfolio before getting hired for the job, not the other way around. :
And you don't know how potentially damning your unconditional faith is during this critical time.
That website doesn't need to be a portfolio, it needs to be a presentation/business plan that is easy to read, informative, and doesn't require me to have to dig for information.
You seem to be rather defensive, which is very counterpoductive at this point. At this stage you are selling nothing more than an idea for a game. Having an attitude of "well, if someone doesn't want to be bothered with reading wall after wall of (mostly) pointless text, who needs 'em anyway" is simply the wrong way to look at it. The fact is that you DO need them if you want their money. You need to SELL them your idea and CONVINCE them to give you their money and be APPRECIATIVE about it. The OP was right in his assessment. Clearly these guys need someone who knows a bit about sellsmanship on their team.
this is normaly true, but in this instance when it is supp[osed to assist in the raiseing of funds to begin the production of a game it turnsinto something else, you cant honestly expect people to invest money in somehting without being
1. already heavly involved or dedicated
or
2. gaining lots of informatin first, adn people dont want to ahve to dig for information for soemthing when it is them giveing the money and not the other way around.
this lack of foresite has probaly cost a ton of money already, as people who look at it to see what its all about , and find it lacking in easy to find and understand information.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Basically they're just aiming for people who would be all up in attention like meerkats on the mention of the words "Camelot", or "Dark Age of Camelot". They're not interested at all into making a backer out of someone, like say, me, who hasn't played or even heard of DAoC until a year ago.
They only need the money from fanboys to get the project up and running and maybe they'll start attracting "outsiders" some time later.
The only people who donate to kickstarters for mmos know about mmos and who this guy is.
Amazing the high level of stupidity and ignorance present here.
It is simple.
You don't know anything about this guy or his past projects of Dark Age of Camelot. You visit the website to find more information, What is Camelot Unchained? What will it offer?
Upon exploring the website you don't find that information fast enough or don't find it at all so your interest disappeared and you closed the browser tab.
Good bye possible pledger.
With better organization of available information on that website they could have had 1 more person donating $15 or more.
How is it that hard to understand the OP here? You guys are defending sloppy design and celebrating the fact that this pledge was turned away.
Starting a post by calling people stupid isn't usually the most constructive way to convert people to your school of thought.
And while I definitely have problems with a number of choices regarding their website that I will not go into, I understand why they made some of those choices.
A big thing that seems to be an issue with their site is the Features section which seems to immediately be interpreted as game features, not website features. If you (in a general sense, not you specifically) think of it more in terms of the latter and understand that the game does not exist as anything other than a group of ideas and principles with a few pieces of art here and there then things would be much nicer. And I do admit that this may not be clear unless a user does some reading beforehand to understand the current state of the project but jumping to conclusions also never helped anybody anyway.
At this point the site isn't about a game, it is about a project that will ultimately become a game if Kickstarter is successful. Game features doesn't really exist as a section because game features themselves do not really exist. Anyone going to the site to find out more about a game that does not exist yet and in fact might not ever exist needs to take a step back and realize they are looking for the wrong information.
Now if all this was clearly presented as such there may be less confusion and perhaps less people becoming upset at or distrustful of the project but that can still be accomplished through the community of supporters providing as much help as possible.
I have to admit I was a bit shocked to see the website looked quite that unorganized and , well , amateurish.
Not knocking the project , as I played DAOC quite a bit at launch (OP'd smite clerics were a joy) , and hoping this does well , but I assumed they would put a slight more bit of effort into their website.
(and a bit scary how any dare mention of anything bad about this yet to be started game gets early beta forums of Vanguard fanboism brought out , and I thought no crowd would ever approach the looney I saw on those forums with the zealout defenders)
Pretty much summed it up perfectly.
The OP is concerned about any potential backers losing interest quickly after browsing the webpage which seems to be lacking proper presentation. Thats it.....
The mentality currently is "Shut up and pledge, if it even LOOKS like you may say something negative you are the enemy and we will attack!" lol.
Sadly it seems the case , and blind fanaticism always turns out to make a good game.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
I'm excited about what this game could be, so I pledged. And at a fairly high level. But I've been excited since I started hearing about it and was chomping at the bit to get in on the ground floor.
I also recognize that there are people out there who will be much more cautious than me, who need a bit of substance instead of just hope and promise--I'm an optimist. Other's are more pessimistic/skeptical and that's absolutely fine. If we can get it funded with just us optimists, then there's not much harm done. However, it would likely be much better to show the skeptics that there is value in this project.
So I can see the issues with the website. I think the OP was a bit harsher than necessary, but that's how some people operate I suppose. Still, the point--that the website is weak--is valid IMO. I don't go there looking for info at all. I gave up on that early on. I get most of my info from the interviews and posts on various websites and I have to admit it's annoyingly tough to keep up on all of it. It would be great to have the info collected and well organized in one place, and the logical place for that is on their website.
I understand that the game isn't in development yet. It's just in the idea stages. But the website could definitely be much more useful as an advertisement for potential backers. I also understand that would be very tough to do though. Even the name of the game is supposedly likely to change. Even one of the realms (Arthurians) is subject to change.
In the end, I don't know that a website as well fleshed out as the OP seems to want, or even as well as I might like, is realistic right now. But what should be there is a basic design document, saying, in very simple terms and in as few words as possible, what the game is supposed to be about and what the general ideas are, then end with asking for support to bring the vision to reality, while explaining what's in it for the backers. A short sales pitch, if you will.
Yeah, it seems to have worked for Darkfall and Mortal Online.
BTW, I wouldn't expect them to have a professional website yet. The game is barely anything more than someone's drunken scrawling on a bar napkin at this point.
^
CLICK: »»» http://CamelotUnchained.net «««
Or they can have the decency to review their website and make sure it's complete before they release it. They need to give players a reason to care about their game. Principles and concept art don't matter. Show me the gameplay, show me the controls. Don't show me mocked up media or stories. Do that after I'm sold on the actual thing I will be playing.
You are looking for substance, that is understandable if a game exists. In this case it does not, the game only exists as a group of ideas backed by knowledge gained through experience. Much of it is simply information that is found in the interviews, the site, the kickstarter page and its updates. They cannot show you something that does not yet exist and once it does exist it seems to be shown in an update as soon as they can. The point of the kickstarter project is to help bring the game into existence.
I am a backer, but I agree.
Only reason I'm funding this is because I have faith in this project, since RvR in DAoC and Warhammer Online was good for me.
AFAIK they haven't really started with the project other than the engine.
But the lack of showoff is really what could kill this kickstart.