I have been following cu for a few months, and ever since the kickstarter came out i have been debatting with myself if i shoud donate or not. Reading as much info as possible. Looking up old doac friends and asking they're thoughts about doac2, only to find that they havent even heard that it existed.
So as more days pass i keep feeling that this game wasnt ready to be put on kickstarter. Most of the kickstarters i see partialy have a product already. or something to show for, not just hey look i want to make this "xxx awesome item" i dont have much more then how i want it to look. And this is where i feel that CU is lacking. Its nice that they are already have the general idea. But yea...
Now it makes me wonder if this kickstarter ended up failling, in the end it would only be for the good of the game. That they wouldent just give up and go home. But actualy spend a few months working on the product. Then come back to kickstarted with a rough diamand to show for. I have a feeling that if this was the case. CU would get way more attention from gaming websites because they actualy got something to show for. Stretch goals would be achieved , with a funding ending possible way higher then the inital goal.
Any thoughts ?
The highest back kickstarters only have concept art, they are getting funded because of their previous popular IP's.
So in your opinion, CU only dosen't look like it's gonna make it right now due to a sensational lack of demand for what it is offering?
Where did i say it wasn't going to make it?
I didn't say anywhere you did.
I said it dosen't *look like* it's going to make it right now.
I am asking your opinion, based on what you said.
I was quoting the OP, who said most kickstarters have a product to show off but in reality the highest backed projects have only concept art and are getting funded because of what they have developed in the past. There certainly isn't a lack of demand for camelot unchained.
So if, in your opinion, they don't need anything to show, not even a tech demo, and the demand is certainly there, is it so far off getting funded at this point?
This game will be funded based on a concept that lots of people are interested in, and also because of the developers previous history in the industry. over 1 million funded already in one week with 22 days still to go.
The Answer to the OP's question: "Would Failure of the kickstarter , be more of blessing?"
"Let the MARKET DECIDE!"
---------------------------------------------
At the moment you have several FANTASY RPG SUCCESSES on Kickstarter:
This indicates there is a market, if people are putting money up front, then the wider market will reflect that interest. The features lists in these kickstarters to attract funding are drivers more than the ROI that publishers would normally say "We got to have better graphics > gameplay or "everyone wins"" etc.
It does not matter if some of these fail - the fact is there is diversity and potential for good games to be made for more TARGET AUDIENCES.
The idea that all players should like the same things, or that players can be segregated into "ones that like story" and "ones that like combat" seem equally fallacious to him.
"This has been bugging me a lot lately," he says. "In the past few years there's been a trend toward designing games with mechanics for people who don't like those mechanics, and it blows my mind... I look at a lot of mechanics, like 'hey, let's write dialog for people who don't like to read!' You were writing with the assumption that they do want to read some of it, right? If people don't want to read, why are we writing? And if people don't like combat, why do you have combat in it?"
[...]
"When it comes to games like this that are crowdsourced for an audience that is very passionate... we can cater to niche audiences like that," Sawyer says. "We can design for the people that already like this stuff, and that is okay. Not everything needs to be made to reach a mainstream audience."
[...]
A lot of those [Infinity Engine] titles were PC-only, and that's not really an appealing pitch to any publisher. They don't really want a PC-only title, because that's not going to maximize their revenue.
[...]
CA: I think so. I do know that usually when we're discussing budgets for games, they can range anywhere from $20 to $30 million for development, but that doesn't account for all the marketing budget or any of the auxiliary resources like quality assurance or production support or localization, or even paying for sound effects and audio and things like that. The budgets for [triple-A] games are just insane, but they generate a lot of revenue.
fine, so basically you say what we have seen from Star Citizen, Shroud and Elite Dangerous is all irrelevant stuff thrown together in some engine?
Then show me similiar footage of "some models thrown together in some engine" from CU then? Ah well, doesn't exist. Got it..
oh, the 100000 NPCs demo? Laughable.
SC had some ingame images of models, a short video show some clips of the different models in the game engine and then the cockpit view.. just remembering what was there at the start of the kickstarter for that.. i think that was basically it.
Elite at the start of the kickstarter had an inital veideo with the devs talking and showing some footage of the origional elite.. it was not until later in the kickstarter we got to see any in game footage..
Its not irrelevant and i dont believe i said that. I am jsut saying your examples did not really have that much to show either....
Also have you not seen the video of CU released yesterday with the 2 different types of animated models attacknig each other?
Anyway yes more videos of in game footage of course would have been better.. but i was just saying the examples you sued wehre not that much better especially Elite..
If this KS fails it wouldn't be a blessing at all.
It would just show publishers that this kind of oldschool game doesn't generate enough interest and it would encourage them to not go this way and stick to what is working, casual MMOs.
I looked at the model videos and if that is what they are going to use as in game footage, they should go back to the drawing board. It didnt' look like anything.
Do you realise how much is involved in creating a game engine from scratch?
I am sure they could have picked up one of the currently available engines like unity and put a basic game togeather already but they wanted to design their own engine so they could have complete control in its development.
So of course it didnt look like anything as the engine is still very early on in development...
I do. Even though I don't work in that industry, I do work in an industry where there is alot of development work done - Biotechnology. And we do it for longer lead times.
I feel that the videos they showed where just put out there to silence critics of NOT having a game play video. It failed to silence them.
I think it's funny, all these high-rollers that haven't even kicked in $25 at this stage, saying that Mark should have already used that $2,000,000 to get the game started.
First, working on the kickstarter isn't free. He is paying salaries and other overhead. He estimated about $150,000 to do the kickstarter. I'm wagering none/little of that is his salary.
I think 150k is a pretty decent investment in seeing if the public even wants this thing. If you chuckleheads can't even get together for $25 each, why would he put $2,000,000 in the pot?
Kickstarter does NOT need a product to demonstrate. Yes, some kickstarters have a prototype, or have shot some footage, etc....
Let me tell you that it is exponentially cheaper to get a 3d printed prototype of whatever little doodad you are making, or to take a camera you likely already own and get the footage "for free" and recoup the costs later - paying salary for 13 people is a whole different ballgame.
I know you've all run businesses before and know more than me, MJ, anyone else - but come the hell on. Grow up.
If you don't like what you've heard and seen so far, well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep checking back for the updates, and if you like it by the time things are over - great. If not...great.
This isn't about the specific classes, races, or anything - it's about the idea of a niche, PVP-only MMO based on mythology. Backed by a set of foundational principles that I think are pretty straightforward.
If there isn't enough interest in that....why should he piss away his money?
Once THE PUBLIC says this is the game they want, he's said he is more than happy to put in his (and some of someone else's) money to make it happen. Be adults about it.
As i said they had a fully working engine, where able to models nito said engine, create a map without terrain in cryengine.. but a big 3d model in and some smaller ones.. Dont get me wrong i was super impressed by the details of the models and what they had done with Cryengine so i backed the project.. well i would ahve anyway..
This was a later video so again we cant really complain until we get to the last week of the CU campaign.
Elite Dangerous campaign videos
This was released on nov the 26th, the elite campaign started on the 5th.
Many have pointed out that "Elite: Dangerous" on Kickstarter lacked video and concept art.
Many thanks for all your support, and I hope you like the new content.
David
We got some concept art.... i backed this as well btw
Divergence campaign videos
You might want to do some background checknig on that game.. the guy has been worknig on it for many many years.. so of course he has fotoage available to show people.. I also backed this.
I rest my case.
So yeah SC has shown the most out of the ones you have mentioned but i dont think we have seen anyone actually playing an early version of the game yet.
Also im not saying that CU would not be donig better if they had more in engine footage to show off.. im sure it would.. but they are not at that stage yet..
I do. Even though I don't work in that industry, I do work in an industry where there is alot of development work done - Biotechnology. And we do it for longer lead times.
I feel that the videos they showed where just put out there to silence critics of NOT having a game play video. It failed to silence them.
Thats fair enough and sure it wont silence them.. as im sure most expected to see a fully working game and will carry on complaining until they see one.
On another note talk about coincidence as i'm writing this. And the tv is on in the background. the national TV news is talking about a game on kickstarter cald divinity. How it reached funding and stil with 10 days to go. And showing people ingame footage. and actualy motivating people to check it out if they like it, lol nice
Divinity made national news? That is awesome, I loved the Divinity games.
On topic, I don't think it would be good or bad in the grand scheme of Kickstarter if it fails. Less than half of Kickstarter projects actually reach funding anyway. If it fails and falls apart, people will never know if it would have developed into a great game if it had funded. If it funds it will still be a long time before anything tangible to play is available, if ever. After all, just because a company has millions of dollars to begin development doesn't mean it will actually finish development.
Gamers everywhere are only hurting themselves if they don't back/fund this.
Giant gaming company's (like EA) will laugh that players tried to make a game by the player for the player.
They're like the mob/mafia in gaming, and will be like, come crawling back to me for more games after your failed kickstarter LOL.
I don't think people realize this is a big chance/opportunity to stick it to them. They're so used to drinking their koolaid, they just keep asking why CU doesn't have koolaid yet? haha
Yes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. Ohter games have shown similar demos - it is more impressive when you have LIVE players with all the internet delays, etc playing that way, then they would have something. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is raises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
I do agree.
Getting money would be easier if they could show some alpha footage.
On the other hand, with no publisher, they need money to be able to create the game.
Well I thought Jacobs has 2 million at hand? he didn't want to take some risk and invest in a prototype himself like Chris Roberts did with SC, Braben did with Elite, Garriot did with Shroud?
draw your own conclusion like I did
Wait there.. SC was using an established engine and we have not seen any in game footage yet just some videos possibly showing scripted footage from within cryengine. Yes they did ahve a lot of stuff done in the engine already but they didnt have to design an engine as welll just make some models and put them in game (yes there was mroe to it than that).
We didnt see any in game footage with Elite until a week after kickstarter started.. i believe all we got to start with was some footage of the origional Elite. When we did get to see the first in game footage it was nothing more and a basic tech demo
Shroud videos where just some basic stuff thrown togeather in unity that would probally take me a few days to do so again we never really seen anything there.
With UC they are making an engine from scratch and they have already shown us some early demo footage from the engine..
fine, so basically you say what we have seen from Star Citizen, Shroud and Elite Dangerous is all irrelevant stuff thrown together in some engine?
Then show me similiar footage of "some models thrown together in some engine" from CU then? Ah well, doesn't exist. Got it..
oh, the 100000 NPCs demo? Laughable.
Actually they did that last night on the Kickstarter update, with a more optimized demo due out today.
Yes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is reaises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
So then you didn't actually read anything written in any of these updates and didn't actually listen to anything said in any of the videos then?
I mean they clearly said they want to VERY SOON, get some backers / Internal Testing people in to basically do a Camelot Unchained Smackhammer thing to test the engine, so basically if will be this:
But with player's controlling the Camelot Unchained models from this video
But I suppose in that case you would have to be using your energy paying attention to details instead of being a troll though.
Just in to point out that their lack of more footage might very well be a bit of a marketing plot, if you showed everything you got on day 1 of a KS campaign you won't get much coverage in the media from then on. However if you release it piece by piece you built up some suspense and pretty much guerantee some additional coverage in the form of "CSE releases awesome new footage x days before KS end, check this out".
It also preys on the psychological effect that someone that is undecided is more easily swayed by a constant stream of positive news/footage than getting a bunch immediatly and then 30 days of text only messages. Lastly it also creates the illusion of productivity, which again increases trust. Think about it getting shown something and being told "we worked x months on that" is one thing. But starting with nothing, then a rough net code example, then working ingame models and "btw next week we will test multiplayer with some backers" all in the span of a couple of days ... well that sort of activity puts an anthill to shame, imagine what they could do with a whole 2 years.
Don't get me wrong, im not dissing them. One should go for every advantage one could get, and MJ is certainly a master at playing his audiences like a fiddle. Which doesn't mean the game will be bad or anything, good marketing(especially the free variety) and a good product are not mutually exclusive. Unlike what those with bad marketing and a bad product would want you to believe.
Btw, many people do not know that this is already MJs second try to make a sequel to DaoC, the other was on KS aswell and narrowly missed its funding goal. Check it out. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/438813504/camelot-remount?ref=live rumor has it MJ wants any remnants of this project dead and buried because it has a rather unsavory picture of him right on the top of it.
I have been following cu for a few months, and ever since the kickstarter came out i have been debatting with myself if i shoud donate or not. Reading as much info as possible. Looking up old doac friends and asking they're thoughts about doac2, only to find that they havent even heard that it existed.
So as more days pass i keep feeling that this game wasnt ready to be put on kickstarter. Most of the kickstarters i see partialy have a product already. or something to show for, not just hey look i want to make this "xxx awesome item" i dont have much more then how i want it to look. And this is where i feel that CU is lacking. Its nice that they are already have the general idea. But yea...
Now it makes me wonder if this kickstarter ended up failling, in the end it would only be for the good of the game. That they wouldent just give up and go home. But actualy spend a few months working on the product. Then come back to kickstarted with a rough diamand to show for. I have a feeling that if this was the case. CU would get way more attention from gaming websites because they actualy got something to show for. Stretch goals would be achieved , with a funding ending possible way higher then the inital goal.
Any thoughts ?
I have been thinking something similar lately but not because they will go back and prepare some more for Round 2.
As a non-brown-nosing skeptic, I've already fallen from good graces. But I was always more interested in the idea of the game, not CSE's good vibes.
They were horribly prepared for this KS campaign. I'm not going to fucking debate that either, if anyone disagrees they're just wrong. There were a certain few CRITICAL things that should have been set in place to drive interest in the game that just aren't there.
With everyone I've talked to and explained the concepts and ideas to, they love it, and most funded the KS. So if the KS fails, it won't be because the idea is bad or due to a lack of interest/demand.
Why will it have failed then? Technically, an utter lack of understanding of what it takes to market an idea, but ultimately due to lack of leadership. Can't point fingers at marketing when a leader with over 10 years of experience with MMOs should be very familiar with these basic requirements.
And why would the KS failing be a good thing? Well if you lack the leadership to run a successful KS that should have raised at least $3 million, then what are the chances that leader would be able to lead a successful MMO development project?
I'm very dissappointed, but this may be for the best.
Gamers everywhere are only hurting themselves if they don't back/fund this.
Giant gaming company's (like EA) will laugh that players tried to make a game by the player for the player.
They're like the mob/mafia in gaming, and will be like, come crawling back to me for more games after your failed kickstarter LOL.
I don't think people realize this is a big chance/opportunity to stick it to them. They're so used to drinking their koolaid, they just keep asking why CU doesn't have koolaid yet? haha
How am I hurting myself?
If you actually understood your "Koolaid" reference, you would know it was a small group (inside of 400), that were murdered as an act of "revolution" against the "Giant society".
If one really wanted to "stick it to em", one should demand a quality product, and only when a quality product is offered, then hand over one's money.
I'm sorry, although I appreicate the desire to "be part of the next great game, whick will be the greatest", I harbor no delusions that me tossing some cash at an idea, has even a remote chance of "solving the gaming community's issues". Just like giving a panhandler $5 doesnt solve the homeless issue. I hope this all works out for you, us, them, but I don't feel any sort of resopnsibility to fund MJ's dream.
If, in the end, CU launches and is good, or even passable, it is likley I will buy it. But I am a jaded consumer, and I have learned my lessons about prepurchasing.
Originally posted by Tuktz Gamers everywhere are only hurting themselves if they don't back/fund this.Giant gaming company's (like EA) will laugh that players tried to make a game by the player for the player.They're like the mob/mafia in gaming, and will be like, come crawling back to me for more games after your failed kickstarter LOL.I don't think people realize this is a big chance/opportunity to stick it to them. They're so used to drinking their koolaid, they just keep asking why CU doesn't have koolaid yet? haha
How am I hurting myself?
If you actually understood your "Koolaid" reference, you would know it was a small group (inside of 400), that were murdered as an act of "revolution" against the "Giant society".
If one really wanted to "stick it to em", one should demand a quality product, and only when a quality product is offered, then hand over one's money.
I'm sorry, although I appreicate the desire to "be part of the next great game, whick will be the greatest", I harbor no delusions that me tossing some cash at an idea, has even a remote chance of "solving the gaming community's issues". Just like giving a panhandler $5 doesnt solve the homeless issue. I hope this all works out for you, us, them, but I don't feel any sort of resopnsibility to fund MJ's dream.
If, in the end, CU launches and is good, or even passable, it is likley I will buy it. But I am a jaded consumer, and I have learned my lessons about prepurchasing.
Good lord that is simply an atrocious attempt at an analogy. The success of games that go through something like Kickstarter, and effectively bypass the big publishers that single handedly ruin a lot of games, actually opens up an alternate route for the industry. It furthers the gaming industry, as opposed to hindering it. Giving a homeless guy $5 doesn't further anything, if anything it hinders him. Giving that guy a job might be a different story.
Frankly I think anyone who wants this Kickstarter to fail is a complete and utter IDIOT. Seriously.
If you look at Kickstarter it has always been a place for people to fund there ideas into life or to finish a project that can't be finished without more funding. And the whole point of the Camelot Unchained kickstarter is to show if there is interest in there idea, not to sell pre-orders to whiny gamers.
Jacob has made it very clear all over the website and kickstarter that if they don't hit there goal the game WILL NEVER HAPPEN. He's not going to tank his studio on a game that has no serious interest. If you read into the Kickstarter at all you wouldn't even be contemplating what would happen if the Kickstarter bombs.
Even if your not particularly interesting in Camelot Unchained this kickstarter is very very important. Mark wants to make an MMO more in line with the pre-casual era of MMO's and he's not afraid to have a small community. If Camelot Unchained is successful it will show that in a post WoW era more "hardcore" and "niche" mmo's CAN thrive. And as far as people calling out a lack of leadership on the project I laugh. Do a little research on the team they have, they have a pretty good setup and talent and Mark Jacobs has been around a long while.
Has he made mistakes in the past? Absolutely, and frankly that's what you want. He's been very frank about the mistakes he's made and let happen in the past and has been upfront about things he wants to do to avoid that. His emphasis on in game engine vs premade engine, crowdsourcing vs publisher money, etc.
Either way, what's so bad about funding a dream? With Kickstarter your betting on a dream/idea, not pre-ordering a game and I wish people would see it like that. You really should only kickstart a game that you are passionate about, not everyone that comes by, and certainly not wish for one to tank.
As i said they had a fully working engine, where able to models nito said engine, create a map without terrain in cryengine.. but a big 3d model in and some smaller ones.. Dont get me wrong i was super impressed by the details of the models and what they had done with Cryengine so i backed the project.. well i would ahve anyway..
This was a later video so again we cant really complain until we get to the last week of the CU campaign.
Elite Dangerous campaign videos
This was released on nov the 26th, the elite campaign started on the 5th.
Many have pointed out that "Elite: Dangerous" on Kickstarter lacked video and concept art.
Many thanks for all your support, and I hope you like the new content.
David
We got some concept art.... i backed this as well btw
Divergence campaign videos
You might want to do some background checknig on that game.. the guy has been worknig on it for many many years.. so of course he has fotoage available to show people.. I also backed this.
I rest my case.
So yeah SC has shown the most out of the ones you have mentioned but i dont think we have seen anyone actually playing an early version of the game yet.
Chris Roberts himself has been flying around with a fully functional ship in one of the pre-campaign videos, showing off the flight Physics, fly-by-wire system and ship engines, flying close to the Bengal Carrier, cockpit view, walking INSIDE the carrier with an avatar and TONS of more highly impressive ingame material.
Look, you guys can downplay lightyears better prepared KS Campaigns than CU's as long as you want, fact is CU has nothing of substance to show because there obviously is nothing to show. Maybe they come up with something until the end of the campaign but I highly doubt it.
This is Greed Monger all over again. Another vaporware game I would never pledge for on Kickstarter.
I remeber reading the Kickstarter site and i am not sure what really happens if it fails.
I do know that around 20% of the total is lost,never gets into the game.I am pretty sure i also read that if it fails,no money is taken.What happens then is anyone's guess,not likely to see money handed back to the people lol.
Personally i don't like to see failures but yes some developers ask for it.It is imo not fair to ask for people to support a game the way it is being done.
The REAL LEGIT way is to offer up shares,that way the people get a true investment,this is EACTALY what a buddy of mine did with his PC company.Tghe perks or bribes should NOT be part of it.The actual gaming part should be fair to all who eventually purchase it,there shouldn't be any of that pre ordfer or first into game,alienating all other customers.Personally i feel alienating customers ,is like a slap in the face,there is away to do everything and i just mentioned one via shares.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. Ohter games have shown similar demos - it is more impressive when you have LIVE players with all the internet delays, etc playing that way, then they would have something. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is raises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
You are coming off as if you do want it to die. If you don't, why haven't you at least gone in at the $5 or $25 level? If you're so sure it won't make its funding, and are truthful, in your statement above, it would be hypocritical not to support it at least at those levels.
Or were you just saying that to try and hide the hate?
Yes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is reaises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
So then you didn't actually read anything written in any of these updates and didn't actually listen to anything said in any of the videos then?
I mean they clearly said they want to VERY SOON, get some backers / Internal Testing people in to basically do a Camelot Unchained Smackhammer thing to test the engine, so basically if will be this:
But with player's controlling the Camelot Unchained models from this video
But I suppose in that case you would have to be using your energy paying attention to details instead of being a troll though.
To each their own I guess right?
With all due respect, going from an NPC tech demo to live players is a HUGE hurdle. There are other games that have shown ACTUAL game footage before going to Kickstarter - that makes sense as it shows that technology they are developing DOES work.
I remeber reading the Kickstarter site and i am not sure what really happens if it fails.I do know that around 20% of the total is lost,never gets into the game.I am pretty sure i also read that if it fails,no money is taken.What happens then is anyone's guess,not likely to see money handed back to the people lol.Personally i don't like to see failures but yes some developers ask for it.It is imo not fair to ask for people to support a game the way it is being done.The REAL LEGIT way is to offer up shares,that way the people get a true investment,this is EACTALY what a buddy of mine did with his PC company.Tghe perks or bribes should NOT be part of it.The actual gaming part should be fair to all who eventually purchase it,there shouldn't be any of that pre ordfer or first into game,alienating all other customers.Personally i feel alienating customers ,is like a slap in the face,there is away to do everything and i just mentioned one via shares.
After reading your post, I'm not sure if you understand Kickstarter. If it doesn't fund, no one is charged. Either they get the money, or no one pays at all. Not fair to offer rewards for pledging? Do you even buy games ever? In-game items and similar things are offered for pre-orders or pledging for a game almost always. Also, none of these items are game-changing. They are cosmetic/fun items and things like that. It doesn't sound like you have the slightest clue of how anything related to this game/project works. Please read up before you post.
Also, you really think a game developer is going to offer shares to people for pledging (basically pre-ordering with perks)? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard, trying to compare this to your "friend's PC company."
Yes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. Ohter games have shown similar demos - it is more impressive when you have LIVE players with all the internet delays, etc playing that way, then they would have something. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is raises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
You are coming off as if you do want it to die. If you don't, why haven't you at least gone in at the $5 or $25 level? If you're so sure it won't make its funding, and are truthful, in your statement above, it would be hypocritical not to support it at least at those levels. Or were you just saying that to try and hide the hate?
I have worked my whole career in start-ups - biotech start-ups. I have put enough of my money, blood, sweat and, tears into them. Out of the 5 so far I have worked for - 3 have died and never came back. That is actually a good ratio because it is more ilke 1 in 100 survive the start-up phase. The same happens to games. Out of how many trying to get Kickstarter money have actually made it to the 'big dance'? I play games to enjoy myself, not to actually help to design one. If I was going to, it would not be like this.
No, I don't want CU to die but people keep talking about it like it is a done deal and they have a open beta test running. They have nothing, just dreams and there is nothing wrong with that but they are not playable.
Comments
This game will be funded based on a concept that lots of people are interested in, and also because of the developers previous history in the industry. over 1 million funded already in one week with 22 days still to go.
The Answer to the OP's question: "Would Failure of the kickstarter , be more of blessing?"
"Let the MARKET DECIDE!"
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At the moment you have several FANTASY RPG SUCCESSES on Kickstarter:
This indicates there is a market, if people are putting money up front, then the wider market will reflect that interest. The features lists in these kickstarters to attract funding are drivers more than the ROI that publishers would normally say "We got to have better graphics > gameplay or "everyone wins"" etc.
It does not matter if some of these fail - the fact is there is diversity and potential for good games to be made for more TARGET AUDIENCES.
Eg Project Eternity devs:
Project Eternity: What it really means to make the game you want to make
From Torment to Eternity: Chris Avellone on RPGs
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
oh really?
Star Citizen campaign videos
Elite Dangerous campaign videos
Divergence campaign videos
I rest my case.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
If this KS fails it wouldn't be a blessing at all.
It would just show publishers that this kind of oldschool game doesn't generate enough interest and it would encourage them to not go this way and stick to what is working, casual MMOs.
I do. Even though I don't work in that industry, I do work in an industry where there is alot of development work done - Biotechnology. And we do it for longer lead times.
I feel that the videos they showed where just put out there to silence critics of NOT having a game play video. It failed to silence them.
+1
So yeah SC has shown the most out of the ones you have mentioned but i dont think we have seen anyone actually playing an early version of the game yet.
Also im not saying that CU would not be donig better if they had more in engine footage to show off.. im sure it would.. but they are not at that stage yet..
Thats fair enough and sure it wont silence them.. as im sure most expected to see a fully working game and will carry on complaining until they see one.
Divinity made national news? That is awesome, I loved the Divinity games.
On topic, I don't think it would be good or bad in the grand scheme of Kickstarter if it fails. Less than half of Kickstarter projects actually reach funding anyway. If it fails and falls apart, people will never know if it would have developed into a great game if it had funded. If it funds it will still be a long time before anything tangible to play is available, if ever. After all, just because a company has millions of dollars to begin development doesn't mean it will actually finish development.
Have you or any of your friends / fellow skeptics seen this video yet?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/451168?ref=activityhttp://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/
Gamers everywhere are only hurting themselves if they don't back/fund this.
Giant gaming company's (like EA) will laugh that players tried to make a game by the player for the player.
They're like the mob/mafia in gaming, and will be like, come crawling back to me for more games after your failed kickstarter LOL.
I don't think people realize this is a big chance/opportunity to stick it to them. They're so used to drinking their koolaid, they just keep asking why CU doesn't have koolaid yet? haha
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
Yes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. Ohter games have shown similar demos - it is more impressive when you have LIVE players with all the internet delays, etc playing that way, then they would have something. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is raises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
Actually they did that last night on the Kickstarter update, with a more optimized demo due out today.
So then you didn't actually read anything written in any of these updates and didn't actually listen to anything said in any of the videos then?
I mean they clearly said they want to VERY SOON, get some backers / Internal Testing people in to basically do a Camelot Unchained Smackhammer thing to test the engine, so basically if will be this:
But with player's controlling the Camelot Unchained models from this video
But I suppose in that case you would have to be using your energy paying attention to details instead of being a troll though.
To each their own I guess right?
http://www.twitter.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.facebook.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://www.youtube.com/PoIs0nMaN
http://steamcommunity.com/id/PoIsOnMaN
http://poisonman.wordpress.com/
Just in to point out that their lack of more footage might very well be a bit of a marketing plot, if you showed everything you got on day 1 of a KS campaign you won't get much coverage in the media from then on. However if you release it piece by piece you built up some suspense and pretty much guerantee some additional coverage in the form of "CSE releases awesome new footage x days before KS end, check this out".
It also preys on the psychological effect that someone that is undecided is more easily swayed by a constant stream of positive news/footage than getting a bunch immediatly and then 30 days of text only messages. Lastly it also creates the illusion of productivity, which again increases trust. Think about it getting shown something and being told "we worked x months on that" is one thing. But starting with nothing, then a rough net code example, then working ingame models and "btw next week we will test multiplayer with some backers" all in the span of a couple of days ... well that sort of activity puts an anthill to shame, imagine what they could do with a whole 2 years.
Don't get me wrong, im not dissing them. One should go for every advantage one could get, and MJ is certainly a master at playing his audiences like a fiddle. Which doesn't mean the game will be bad or anything, good marketing(especially the free variety) and a good product are not mutually exclusive. Unlike what those with bad marketing and a bad product would want you to believe.
Btw, many people do not know that this is already MJs second try to make a sequel to DaoC, the other was on KS aswell and narrowly missed its funding goal. Check it out. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/438813504/camelot-remount?ref=live rumor has it MJ wants any remnants of this project dead and buried because it has a rather unsavory picture of him right on the top of it.
I have been thinking something similar lately but not because they will go back and prepare some more for Round 2.
As a non-brown-nosing skeptic, I've already fallen from good graces. But I was always more interested in the idea of the game, not CSE's good vibes.
They were horribly prepared for this KS campaign. I'm not going to fucking debate that either, if anyone disagrees they're just wrong. There were a certain few CRITICAL things that should have been set in place to drive interest in the game that just aren't there.
With everyone I've talked to and explained the concepts and ideas to, they love it, and most funded the KS. So if the KS fails, it won't be because the idea is bad or due to a lack of interest/demand.
Why will it have failed then? Technically, an utter lack of understanding of what it takes to market an idea, but ultimately due to lack of leadership. Can't point fingers at marketing when a leader with over 10 years of experience with MMOs should be very familiar with these basic requirements.
And why would the KS failing be a good thing? Well if you lack the leadership to run a successful KS that should have raised at least $3 million, then what are the chances that leader would be able to lead a successful MMO development project?
I'm very dissappointed, but this may be for the best.
How am I hurting myself?
If you actually understood your "Koolaid" reference, you would know it was a small group (inside of 400), that were murdered as an act of "revolution" against the "Giant society".
If one really wanted to "stick it to em", one should demand a quality product, and only when a quality product is offered, then hand over one's money.
I'm sorry, although I appreicate the desire to "be part of the next great game, whick will be the greatest", I harbor no delusions that me tossing some cash at an idea, has even a remote chance of "solving the gaming community's issues". Just like giving a panhandler $5 doesnt solve the homeless issue. I hope this all works out for you, us, them, but I don't feel any sort of resopnsibility to fund MJ's dream.
If, in the end, CU launches and is good, or even passable, it is likley I will buy it. But I am a jaded consumer, and I have learned my lessons about prepurchasing.
How am I hurting myself?
If you actually understood your "Koolaid" reference, you would know it was a small group (inside of 400), that were murdered as an act of "revolution" against the "Giant society".
If one really wanted to "stick it to em", one should demand a quality product, and only when a quality product is offered, then hand over one's money.
I'm sorry, although I appreicate the desire to "be part of the next great game, whick will be the greatest", I harbor no delusions that me tossing some cash at an idea, has even a remote chance of "solving the gaming community's issues". Just like giving a panhandler $5 doesnt solve the homeless issue. I hope this all works out for you, us, them, but I don't feel any sort of resopnsibility to fund MJ's dream.
If, in the end, CU launches and is good, or even passable, it is likley I will buy it. But I am a jaded consumer, and I have learned my lessons about prepurchasing.
Good lord that is simply an atrocious attempt at an analogy. The success of games that go through something like Kickstarter, and effectively bypass the big publishers that single handedly ruin a lot of games, actually opens up an alternate route for the industry. It furthers the gaming industry, as opposed to hindering it. Giving a homeless guy $5 doesn't further anything, if anything it hinders him. Giving that guy a job might be a different story.
Frankly I think anyone who wants this Kickstarter to fail is a complete and utter IDIOT. Seriously.
If you look at Kickstarter it has always been a place for people to fund there ideas into life or to finish a project that can't be finished without more funding. And the whole point of the Camelot Unchained kickstarter is to show if there is interest in there idea, not to sell pre-orders to whiny gamers.
Jacob has made it very clear all over the website and kickstarter that if they don't hit there goal the game WILL NEVER HAPPEN. He's not going to tank his studio on a game that has no serious interest. If you read into the Kickstarter at all you wouldn't even be contemplating what would happen if the Kickstarter bombs.
Even if your not particularly interesting in Camelot Unchained this kickstarter is very very important. Mark wants to make an MMO more in line with the pre-casual era of MMO's and he's not afraid to have a small community. If Camelot Unchained is successful it will show that in a post WoW era more "hardcore" and "niche" mmo's CAN thrive. And as far as people calling out a lack of leadership on the project I laugh. Do a little research on the team they have, they have a pretty good setup and talent and Mark Jacobs has been around a long while.
Has he made mistakes in the past? Absolutely, and frankly that's what you want. He's been very frank about the mistakes he's made and let happen in the past and has been upfront about things he wants to do to avoid that. His emphasis on in game engine vs premade engine, crowdsourcing vs publisher money, etc.
Either way, what's so bad about funding a dream? With Kickstarter your betting on a dream/idea, not pre-ordering a game and I wish people would see it like that. You really should only kickstart a game that you are passionate about, not everyone that comes by, and certainly not wish for one to tank.
Chris Roberts himself has been flying around with a fully functional ship in one of the pre-campaign videos, showing off the flight Physics, fly-by-wire system and ship engines, flying close to the Bengal Carrier, cockpit view, walking INSIDE the carrier with an avatar and TONS of more highly impressive ingame material.
Look, you guys can downplay lightyears better prepared KS Campaigns than CU's as long as you want, fact is CU has nothing of substance to show because there obviously is nothing to show. Maybe they come up with something until the end of the campaign but I highly doubt it.
This is Greed Monger all over again. Another vaporware game I would never pledge for on Kickstarter.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
I remeber reading the Kickstarter site and i am not sure what really happens if it fails.
I do know that around 20% of the total is lost,never gets into the game.I am pretty sure i also read that if it fails,no money is taken.What happens then is anyone's guess,not likely to see money handed back to the people lol.
Personally i don't like to see failures but yes some developers ask for it.It is imo not fair to ask for people to support a game the way it is being done.
The REAL LEGIT way is to offer up shares,that way the people get a true investment,this is EACTALY what a buddy of mine did with his PC company.Tghe perks or bribes should NOT be part of it.The actual gaming part should be fair to all who eventually purchase it,there shouldn't be any of that pre ordfer or first into game,alienating all other customers.Personally i feel alienating customers ,is like a slap in the face,there is away to do everything and i just mentioned one via shares.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Have you or any of your friends / fellow skeptics seen this video yet?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/451168?ref=activityYes I have - and my response is so? It is NPC's NOT real players and the graphics are terrible. Ohter games have shown similar demos - it is more impressive when you have LIVE players with all the internet delays, etc playing that way, then they would have something. If it would be with Alpha testers and not a tech demo like, 'See what we can do!!' I think it would be more amazing.
I am not saying I want CU to die, on the contrary but I would like some semblence of a reality checks in these threads is all. Hype does not do well with games. All it does is raises hopes to get them dashed on the rocks.
You are coming off as if you do want it to die. If you don't, why haven't you at least gone in at the $5 or $25 level? If you're so sure it won't make its funding, and are truthful, in your statement above, it would be hypocritical not to support it at least at those levels.Or were you just saying that to try and hide the hate?
With all due respect, going from an NPC tech demo to live players is a HUGE hurdle. There are other games that have shown ACTUAL game footage before going to Kickstarter - that makes sense as it shows that technology they are developing DOES work.
Very soon is actual speak for we don't have one.
After reading your post, I'm not sure if you understand Kickstarter. If it doesn't fund, no one is charged. Either they get the money, or no one pays at all. Not fair to offer rewards for pledging? Do you even buy games ever? In-game items and similar things are offered for pre-orders or pledging for a game almost always. Also, none of these items are game-changing. They are cosmetic/fun items and things like that. It doesn't sound like you have the slightest clue of how anything related to this game/project works. Please read up before you post.
Also, you really think a game developer is going to offer shares to people for pledging (basically pre-ordering with perks)? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard, trying to compare this to your "friend's PC company."
I have worked my whole career in start-ups - biotech start-ups. I have put enough of my money, blood, sweat and, tears into them. Out of the 5 so far I have worked for - 3 have died and never came back. That is actually a good ratio because it is more ilke 1 in 100 survive the start-up phase. The same happens to games. Out of how many trying to get Kickstarter money have actually made it to the 'big dance'? I play games to enjoy myself, not to actually help to design one. If I was going to, it would not be like this.
No, I don't want CU to die but people keep talking about it like it is a done deal and they have a open beta test running. They have nothing, just dreams and there is nothing wrong with that but they are not playable.