Sorry, but I think I am a little late to the party on this one. I had fully intended to come and enjoy Neverwinter but all this talk withing the thread about the pay2win stuff etc has made me somewhat wary.
Would anyone who has played please give me an example of the pay2win situation going on? Like, what exactly do you 'have' to pay for in order to succeed?
Thank you for your time, I am a big DnD fan and this sounds potentially a deal breaker for me >.<
Nothing, as the Op is posting incorrect information
Pplayed didn't have to spend anything had complete acess to all classes and all areas. Unlike EQ2 or DDO there was nothing I could see the cash shop sold that would increase my stats or that I needed to equipe better items. While i expect one may have to pay to get the new classes when they are released there is nothing currently one needs to spend cash on. I didn't fwwl any real need for a mount or companion both of which one gets with the founders pack on releaase and both of which can be gotten in game via quests or gold.
Ask yourself this easy question who spends money on items in beta that will be wiped at the end of the weekend? the Op says he spent $80 doesn't say on what just claims he spent that much even though it will all be wiped by the 25Th. Does that make sense? Do you believe him? theres a certain lack of reasoning there that smells of troll
The only one spreading incorrect information is you. You still think the founder's pack is $40? Go away troll.
As you can see i was corrected and apologiesed to you and others in previous post. Now what did you feel you needed to spend money on in a beta? Really I'd like to know honestly.
Yes, I did spend $80 on the game before launch and there's a lot more players that spent even more than me. Perfect World had a deal that if you spend the money now on Zen they would give you bonus Zen later, but that's only if you spent it before April 30th.
The point is that all these people that tell you this game's cash shop is fine, they are full it. These Neverwinter fanboys know that they will never buy anything from the cash shop, but they know someone has to. People like you and me, who have disposible income and impulsive enough to dump a lot of money into something without knowing the value of what they brought.
I'll be the first one to admit that I screwed up I brought a lot of stuff from the cash shop that I shouldn't have. That's why I made the post to protect others from making the same mistake. A lot players here are going to straight up lie to you and tell you there's nothing wrong with the cash shop. They are not looking out for our self interest, they want you to fund their play time, and it's unethical practices that the impulsive few should fund the gameplay of the many.
The PWE cash shop prices are fixed to obtain maximum profits from the smallest percentage of the player base. You might be in that 90% of players that will never spend a dime on this game's cash shop, but if are that 10% of players like me who do tend to buy virtual goods. Neverwinter is designed to squeeze you harder than any other MMO I have played.
Outrageous! And paying for the game completely ruined your experience, eh? But why? Was it because all these items you paid for were pay2win? Was it because they weren't pay2win? One fail post after another and you have yet to explain exactly how the cash shop has ruined anything, besides that they managed to get you to spend money!
If your a player that tends to buy cash shop items from other games. Don't play this game! PWE will take you for a ride. Don't listen to these people that are telling you the cash shop prices are fine and then you will never need to buy anything from the cash shop. They want you to pay for their game!
the list has some hi priced items but most things look reasonable to me
Outrageous! And paying for the game completely ruined your experience, eh? But why? Was it because all these items you paid for were pay2win? Was it because they weren't pay2win? One fail post after another and you have yet to explain exactly how the cash shop has ruined anything, besides that they managed to get you to spend money!
Because you can't read. I posted several links on the first post. Read them.
Outrageous! And paying for the game completely ruined your experience, eh? But why? Was it because all these items you paid for were pay2win? Was it because they weren't pay2win? One fail post after another and you have yet to explain exactly how the cash shop has ruined anything, besides that they managed to get you to spend money!
Because you can't read. I posted several links on the first post. Read them.
I'm aware of what the prices are, but I don't see how convincing you that they were worth paying for ruins the game? Sounds like you're just a bitter sucker.
That's not even to say that all your zen and AD are going to be refunded on the 25th anyways, and all these prices are subject to change, as they have already throughout the beta weekends.
The game is still in Beta, so I am almost 100% certain that things will change in the game/cash shop prior to the live launch. Beta reviews while a good read become out dated fairly quickly.
As to the cash shop prices and some feeling that they are footing the bill for other players who do not buy things from the cash shop .... welcome to the nature of f2p games. f2p games are funded by whales who spend a lot of money and that is why cash shops will always have some items that have a ridiculous price on it (because a whale is either willing to pay that price or unable to resist the item).
Outrageous! And paying for the game completely ruined your experience, eh? But why? Was it because all these items you paid for were pay2win? Was it because they weren't pay2win? One fail post after another and you have yet to explain exactly how the cash shop has ruined anything, besides that they managed to get you to spend money!
Because you can't read. I posted several links on the first post. Read them.
I'm aware of what the prices are, but I don't see how convincing you that they were worth paying for ruins the game? Sounds like you're just a bitter sucker.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but thanks to the power of Paypal I was able to get all my money back. So you're going to have to find someone else to fund your game.
Also I couldn't care less of what you think of me. I'm not here to kiss PWE's butt like you, I was in beta 4 and I'm going tell it like it is. I'm only interested in preventing other people on the fence from getting ripped off, and if I help one person with this thread then I will be satisfied.
Yes, I did spend $80 on the game before launch and there's a lot more players that spent even more than me. Perfect World had a deal that if you spend the money now on Zen they would give you bonus Zen later, but that's only if you spent it before April 30th.
The point is that all these people that tell you this game's cash shop is fine, they are full it. These Neverwinter fanboys know that they will never buy anything from the cash shop, but they know someone has to. People like you and me, who have disposible income and impulsive enough to dump a lot of money into something without knowing the value of what they brought.
I'll be the first one to admit that I screwed up I brought a lot of stuff from the cash shop that I shouldn't have. That's why I made the post to protect others from making the same mistake. A lot players here are going to straight up lie to you and tell you there's nothing wrong with the cash shop. They are not looking out for our self interest, they want you to fund their play time, and it's unethical practices that the impulsive few should fund the gameplay of the many.
The PWE cash shop prices are fixed to obtain maximum profits from the smallest percentage of the player base. You might be in that 90% of players that will never spend a dime on this game's cash shop, but if are that 10% of players like me who do tend to buy virtual goods. Neverwinter is designed to squeeze you harder than any other MMO I have played.
By "all these people that tell you the cash shop is fine" I assume you mean those of us that were in beta 4. you know those of us that had already paid at leaast $60 a fairly normal B2P price and as such were in no way expecting you to pay for our playing time. So please stop with the BS line that we are defending the cash shop so we can play for free while you psy for us. throwing such insults just makes you look clueless.
We mentioned that there is nothing in the cash shop one needs to buy. Something you seem to agree with. You also agree its Not Pay2win. I can point out much worse/restrictive F2P gams like DDO, EQ2, SW:tor, etc were one has to pay for basics like Ui, The ability to equipe better items, or to open areaas to adventure in.
In the end you admit your impulsive and bought alot of things you shouldn't (in beta that has been wiped already even) as such you say the game was ruined not because the caash shop items were needed, or theF2P model was restrictive, but simply because the cosmetic items were too expensive to you. In fact you state you were in beta 3 for free, enjoyed the game knowlying then purchased the funders pack, then in beta 4 made more purchses before at the end of beta deciding you had been too impulsive and had made a mistake and demaded a refund.
With all due respect it sounds like you don't need to protect players from the cashs shop sounds like you need to protect yourself from your own inability to control your impulse spending.
Outrageous! And paying for the game completely ruined your experience, eh? But why? Was it because all these items you paid for were pay2win? Was it because they weren't pay2win? One fail post after another and you have yet to explain exactly how the cash shop has ruined anything, besides that they managed to get you to spend money!
Because you can't read. I posted several links on the first post. Read them.
I'm aware of what the prices are, but I don't see how convincing you that they were worth paying for ruins the game? Sounds like you're just a bitter sucker.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but thanks to the power of Paypal I was able to get all my money back. So you're going to have to find someone else to fund your game.
Also I couldn't care less of what you think of me. I'm not here to kiss PWE's butt like you, I was in beta 4 and I'm going tell it like it is. I'm only interested in preventing other people on the fence from getting ripped off, and if I help one person with this thread then I will be satisfied.
Those of us in beta 4 already paid to play the game. You weren't funding anything.In fact you were in beta 3 liked the game freely bought the founders pack, and then in beta 4 made a bunch of purchases dispite knowing they'd be wiped, and then lhen at the end of beta demanded a refund as you had a chance to play for free a game we funded. (your welcome) ans knew you'd get the refund.
None of us here are kissing PWE butt those of us in beta 4 paid for the game, and are telling it like it is. ie its one of the most open F2P games currently out where one doesn't really need to buy anything and its not pay to win. (things you more or less have agreed with) Unlike you we are not saying PWe/cryptics cash shop is to blame for our inability to control our own impulse spending. Sure if you have to have purple dye for your armor and can't be bothered to spend the time in game to get it spend money if you want but don't blame the cash shop thats just you and yes all cash shops are built to try and take advantage of people that can't control their impulse spending. does the purple armor dye cost more in Neverwinter then it does in the games where you have to also pay for more then 2 hot bars, or were you have to pay to equipe anything better then a green item? Maybe, did you figure in the prices of thing you have to pay just to play in those games to their cash shop prices? ie purple armor dye cost plus Ui cost. or purple armor dye cost plus cost of ability to equipe armor thats rare or better? No I'm figuring you didn't.
In the end good luck finding a game thats fun and suites your spending desires.
With all due respect if you had read the thread, your opinion that the cash shop is fine is in the minority, and most people agree with me that the prices of the cash shop are too high.
The people in this thread want to know if the cash shop prices are too expensive, and the answer is yes. That's a deal breaker for many people. If you want try to play the game without buying anything, I wish you good luck with that. But the rest of us need not bother with this game.
I'm sure people would take your posts more seriously if you actually brought something from the cash shop, so feel free to come back to this thread when you have facts and not theories to support your claim.
And no I did not just buy cosmetic items. I brought a little bit of everything, companions, health stones, bag slots, resurrection scrolls. These are progression items and they are extremely expensive and no you don't get your money back after beta 4, you only get your zen back. I had previously looked up the Neverwinter forums for people asking for refunds and the majority said they were unlikely to get their money back. The cash is gone once you brought the zen. Most of the people that buy zen will not get their money back, I was lucky.
The reason why I said I screwed up is simply because I believed with PWE was selling. They will tell you their $200 founders packs are worth $700, and $60 pack has $140 worth of stuff in there. The Cash shop has higher quality companions are $20, and $30 each. I honestly believed that these items were worth their prices, because PWE SAID THEY WERE, But I made this post confirming that they are not worth it. No I didn't have to buy them, but I never made the argument that these items are Pay2Win. But if PWE tells you this item is worth $20 or $30 in Neverwinter, if you look at games like WoW, Tera, and Guild Wars 2, you will see this is not true.
The point is that all these people that tell you this game's cash shop is fine, they are full it. These Neverwinter fanboys know that they will never buy anything from the cash shop, but they know someone has to. People like you and me, who have disposible income and impulsive enough to dump a lot of money into something without knowing the value of what they brought.
I'll be the first one to admit that I screwed up I brought a lot of stuff from the cash shop that I shouldn't have. That's why I made the post to protect others from making the same mistake. A lot players here are going to straight up lie to you and tell you there's nothing wrong with the cash shop. They are not looking out for our self interest, they want you to fund their play time, and it's unethical practices that the impulsive few should fund the gameplay of the many.
The PWE cash shop prices are fixed to obtain maximum profits from the smallest percentage of the player base. You might be in that 90% of players that will never spend a dime on this game's cash shop, but if are that 10% of players like me who do tend to buy virtual goods. Neverwinter is designed to squeeze you harder than any other MMO I have played.
I buy your reasoning, and it is the essense of the whole p2w problem that 10% pays so the 90% can play for free. Logic suggest this will become the case with Neverwinter aswell, because it has to be funded like any other game and customers are the only source.
However, I am missing specific examples - Everyone has opinions, but no one presents examples from the game to back it up.
So, On one hand I hate all this p2w and I hope customers will wake up sometime and recognize the hoax. On the other hand, if I want to play any modern game, p2w is the reality I have to accept. I like Neverwinter as a game, so what I am trying to find out is not whether it is p2w (I assume all free games are), but the degree of it, and what it means I would have to pay to play it on a level I find rewarding.
I buy your reasoning, and it is the essense of the whole p2w problem that 10% pays so the 90% can play for free.
Examples please, back up your claims everyone.
You first.
My only claim is that OP is disgruntled because he wasn't happy with his purchase. By itself, this is no big deal. But he also claims that this personal experience ruins the the entire game, regardless of whether or not you actually spend money on it, or are personally happy about your spending, which is obvioulsy false.
It's kind of like going to a restaurant and saying, "this food is terrible because it is expensive, but it does taste great."
I buy your reasoning, and it is the essense of the whole p2w problem that 10% pays so the 90% can play for free.
Examples please, back up your claims everyone.
You first.
My only claim is that OP is disgruntled because he wasn't happy with his purchase. By itself, this is no big deal. But he also claims that this personal experience ruins the the entire game, regardless of whether or not you actually spend money on it, or are personally happy about your spending, which is obvioulsy false.
It's kind of like going to a restaurant and saying, "this food is terrible because it is expensive, but it does taste great."
I'm not surprised that people like you would result to personal insults.
I'm sure you love the idea of 10% of the player base funding your freemium game. If we can't agree this alone is unethical, then we're not going to have a honest conversation.
The truth is that it's more likely that people would purposefully mislead people into being that the cash shop prices are not an factor. So that people like me can to fund their game so they can play for free. How am I disgruntled when I got my money back? Does that make sense?
Neverwinter is an D&D IP cash grab. Just like STO before it.
I buy your reasoning, and it is the essense of the whole p2w problem that 10% pays so the 90% can play for free.
Examples please, back up your claims everyone.
You first.
My only claim is that OP is disgruntled because he wasn't happy with his purchase. By itself, this is no big deal. But he also claims that this personal experience ruins the the entire game, regardless of whether or not you actually spend money on it, or are personally happy about your spending, which is obvioulsy false.
It's kind of like going to a restaurant and saying, "this food is terrible because it is expensive, but it does taste great."
I'm not surprised that people like you would result to personal insults.
I'm sure you love the idea of 10% of the player base funding your freemium game. If we can't agree this alone is unethical, then we're not going to have a honest conversation.
I don't really see any part of my post that was insulting, but the part I don't agree on is that only 10% of the player base will be funding this. As nearly as I can tell, most players who play F2P games end up spending money on it at some point or another. That's the design philosophy behind F2P games, and judging by how many of them exist and how successful they are, it seems to be working. Regardless of whether they do or don't, however, F2P game makers like F2P players, because every person who plays - paying or not - is supporting the longevity of the game by being a part of it. I also don't agree that the prices are outrageous, nor did they ruin my gaming experience. Would I like cheaper things? Sure, who wouldn't. Did I feel like I got what I paid for? Yes. Even if I didn't, would I make the claim that the game was ruined by my personal feelings about the cash shop? Absolutely not.
im that the game was ruined by my personal feelings about the cash shop? Absolutely not.
Well that's the difference between you and me. I care about if other people and you don't.
If PWE says this item is worth $30 in the cash shop, if their $60 founder's pack has $140 and I brought it, and it's not, then I'm going to let people know about it. Buyer Beware!
The point is that all these people that tell you this game's cash shop is fine, they are full it. These Neverwinter fanboys know that they will never buy anything from the cash shop, but they know someone has to. People like you and me, who have disposible income and impulsive enough to dump a lot of money into something without knowing the value of what they brought.
I'll be the first one to admit that I screwed up I brought a lot of stuff from the cash shop that I shouldn't have. That's why I made the post to protect others from making the same mistake. A lot players here are going to straight up lie to you and tell you there's nothing wrong with the cash shop. They are not looking out for our self interest, they want you to fund their play time, and it's unethical practices that the impulsive few should fund the gameplay of the many.
The PWE cash shop prices are fixed to obtain maximum profits from the smallest percentage of the player base. You might be in that 90% of players that will never spend a dime on this game's cash shop, but if are that 10% of players like me who do tend to buy virtual goods. Neverwinter is designed to squeeze you harder than any other MMO I have played.
I buy your reasoning, and it is the essense of the whole p2w problem that 10% pays so the 90% can play for free. Logic suggest this will become the case with Neverwinter aswell, because it has to be funded like any other game and customers are the only source.
However, I am missing specific examples - Everyone has opinions, but no one presents examples from the game to back it up.
So, On one hand I hate all this p2w and I hope customers will wake up sometime and recognize the hoax. On the other hand, if I want to play any modern game, p2w is the reality I have to accept. I like Neverwinter as a game, so what I am trying to find out is not whether it is p2w (I assume all free games are), but the degree of it, and what it means I would have to pay to play it on a level I find rewarding.
Examples please, back up your claims everyone.
Even the OP states its not P2W. His point is he believes the cash shop items are too expensive for what they do. So far (and its possible this may change) one can play the whole game without buying anything. Nothings blocked off, one doesn't need to pay for UI like extra hot bars, nore does one have to pay to equipe better items.
the closest thing I think i've heard of people say P2W in this game is the ability to buy zen to trade for AD's to then speed up crafting. AD's or astral diamonds can be gotting in game every hour or so in differeing amounts by invocation and other means.
I'm not buying the arguement that i had to have bought items in beta that are now wiped to have a opinion on weither the cash shop ruins the game. Everyones opinion in the end will be different anyway depending on their incomes, disoppible cash and enjoyment of the base game. i found i didn't need to buy anything in game in the first 20 lvls i played and that was without even having the items the founders pack gives one (a mount, and a companion etc.) others of course may want thing quicker and find the need to buy from the cash shop. So once again opinions there will differ
im that the game was ruined by my personal feelings about the cash shop? Absolutely not.
Well that's the difference between you and me. I care about if other people and you don't.
If PWE says this item is worth $30 in the cash shop, if their $60 founder's pack has $140 and I brought it, and it's not, then I'm going to let people know about it. Buyer Beware!
In other words, "beware: if you are unhappy with your purchases, you can get a full refund, as I did!"
That's right I never said that anything in the cash shop is pay2win. I would prefer people stick to the topic of the thread which is the expensive prices of the cash shop.
With all due respect if you had read the thread, your opinion that the cash shop is fine is in the minority, and most people agree with me that the prices of the cash shop are too high.
The people in this thread want to know if the cash shop prices are too expensive, and the answer is yes. That's a deal breaker for many people. If you want try to play the game without buying anything, I wish you good luck with that. But the rest of us need not bother with this game.
I'm sure people would take your posts more seriously if you actually brought something from the cash shop, so feel free to come back to this thread when you have facts and not theories to support your claim.
And no I did not just buy cosmetic items. I brought a little bit of everything, companions, health stones, bag slots, resurrection scrolls. These are progression items and they are extremely expensive and no you don't get your money back after beta 4, you only get your zen back. I had previously looked up the Neverwinter forums for people asking for refunds and the majority said they were unlikely to get their money back. The cash is gone once you brought the zen. Most of the people that buy zen will not get their money back, I was lucky.
The reason why I said I screwed up is simply because I believed with PWE was selling. They will tell you their $200 founders packs are worth $700, and $60 pack has $140 worth of stuff in there. The Cash shop has higher quality companions are $20, and $30 each. I honestly believed that these items were worth their prices, because PWE SAID THEY WERE, But I made this post confirming that they are not worth it. No I didn't have to buy them, but I never made the argument that these items are Pay2Win. But if PWE tells you this item is worth $20 or $30 in Neverwinter, if you look at games like WoW, Tera, and Guild Wars 2, you will see this is not true.
Important to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
WoW is a subscription based game with a cash shop. Every item you buy from the cash shop you'd best aslo tact on that $15 subscription cost each month) Also add the game purshase cost as last I checked one had to buy at least the wow basic game along with the subscription to play.
GW2 is a B2P game not F2P at all you have to pay the $60 up fron t before you can even begin to play and see if you like the game. Then of course it does have its Cash shop. I've heard people spending just aas much in GW2 cahs shop a month as you did in Neverwinter ($20 right after you remove the $60 found pack cost which is comparable to GW2's BP2 box)
Terra was subscription with a game cost and still had $25 cash shop mounts. Its since gone F2P and I haven't checked on it so really can't give recent info on it. Does one still need to buy the base game making it B2P vs Neverwinters F2P?
Overall if you basing you price comparisons to subscription cash shop games ie WoW or B2P cash shop games GW2 then your not figuing in accurately the total price, weither its from the extra $15 dollars every month you pay for subscription or the upfront box cost of B2P vs F2P. Your arguement seems faulty in that its based on looking at only the cash shop prices compred to what you are forced to pay overall to even play.
Games cost money to make, mmorpgs cost money to run. No games are free, money must come from somewhere. Im not going to explain why 2+2=4.
I don't deny a game can survive on convenience items alone, but the line between convenience and must have is a fine one and also depending on your play style.
The only question for anyone is, what is the cost for me - And that is why I am asking for specific examples.
Originally posted by Bigbadwlf That's right I never said that anything in the cash shop is pay2win. I would prefer people stick to the topic of the thread which is the expensive prices of the cash shop.
I don't quite understand how the prices in the cash shop can make a game utterly unplayable. If the shop isn't P2W (god I hate that branding, as most complaints aren't about P2W, they are about "I want free") then how can it ruin the game?
You have stated that you have money to spend and that you would rather spend money on cash shop items instead of grinding, and that's fine. Where your problem lies is apparently in the pricing, right? And if so, then you are correct that this game isn't for you, but to claim that the game is ruined for all is just nonsense.
I personally can't tell you what happens at higher levels, as I only made it to the mid 30s during beta, but I can tell you that the cash shop hasn't ruined anything for me yet. I had to buy exactly 0 items from the cash shop. Mounts? First one is paid for in gold, and although it isn't the coolest in the universe, it sped up my movement. Companions? Got my first one for free, and then got a second as a quest reward. They weren't a bear or anything cool, but they got the job done.
So to anyone reading this, I am just merely giving a counter opinion on the topic of the thread, which is the cash shop. Whether the prices are too high is up to each individual. The OP obviously thinks they are. I tend to agree with that, but Cryptic gets to set the value of their items, not us. Apparently they think they are acceptable and that enough people will buy them or they would lower the prices. As for ruining the game, I think that is a bit of a reach. The pricing may put the cash shop out of reach of some players, but you could completely remove the cash shop and the game would still be playable.
Personal note to the OP: Not sure how you can tell people to stick to the topic of the thread when your original post mentioned much more than just the cash shop in the first place. Sure, posting off topic is bad form, but you set the precedence when you rated other parts of the game.
Games cost money to make, mmorpgs cost money to run. No games are free, money must come from somewhere. Im not going to explain why 2+2=4.
I don't deny a game can survive on convenience items alone, but the line between convenience and must have is a fine one and also depending on your play style.
The only question for anyone is, what is the cost for me - And that is why I am asking for specific examples.
Nadia linked a current cash shop price list in post #57. No one can say what the price for you will be as what you want is subjective.
Now we are getting somewhere. What I want is subjective yes, and the examples I ask for can only be subjective but it will give an idea what someone thinks based on their game style.
I have read all the posts and also the price list, but the price list doesn't say anything about whether what items are needed .. as in, will a bought merc be so much more powerful that it is effectively needed to do certain stuff, does time for farm something become so ridiculous that buying is needed - All as a subjective, but specific examples.
Well offcourse it is extremely hard to say anything about yet, and yet this is what doubters like me want to know about to make a sort of informed decision. General statements like "Cryptic always does this", and "its not pay2win" doesn't really help.
Comments
As you can see i was corrected and apologiesed to you and others in previous post. Now what did you feel you needed to spend money on in a beta? Really I'd like to know honestly.
Good observasion ... some people want to watch the NW burn.
Yes, I did spend $80 on the game before launch and there's a lot more players that spent even more than me. Perfect World had a deal that if you spend the money now on Zen they would give you bonus Zen later, but that's only if you spent it before April 30th.
http://www.neverwinter-online.com/2013/04/12/get-more-zen-for-neverwinter/
The point is that all these people that tell you this game's cash shop is fine, they are full it. These Neverwinter fanboys know that they will never buy anything from the cash shop, but they know someone has to. People like you and me, who have disposible income and impulsive enough to dump a lot of money into something without knowing the value of what they brought.
I'll be the first one to admit that I screwed up I brought a lot of stuff from the cash shop that I shouldn't have. That's why I made the post to protect others from making the same mistake. A lot players here are going to straight up lie to you and tell you there's nothing wrong with the cash shop. They are not looking out for our self interest, they want you to fund their play time, and it's unethical practices that the impulsive few should fund the gameplay of the many.
The PWE cash shop prices are fixed to obtain maximum profits from the smallest percentage of the player base. You might be in that 90% of players that will never spend a dime on this game's cash shop, but if are that 10% of players like me who do tend to buy virtual goods. Neverwinter is designed to squeeze you harder than any other MMO I have played.
Outrageous! And paying for the game completely ruined your experience, eh? But why? Was it because all these items you paid for were pay2win? Was it because they weren't pay2win? One fail post after another and you have yet to explain exactly how the cash shop has ruined anything, besides that they managed to get you to spend money!
the list has some hi priced items but most things look reasonable to me
especially services
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?130931-Zen-Store-Item-List-Prices
*Services*
-Change Appearence Token z200
-Character Slots X2 z500
-Companion Active Slots z350
-Companion Idle Slots X4 z100
-Manycoins Bank Slots X8 z600
-Rename Token z400
-Retrain Token z500
DDO and EQ2 both charge MORE for extra character slots
even WOW wants much more for change appearance -- 15.00
EQ2 fan sites
Because you can't read. I posted several links on the first post. Read them.
I'm aware of what the prices are, but I don't see how convincing you that they were worth paying for ruins the game? Sounds like you're just a bitter sucker.
That's not even to say that all your zen and AD are going to be refunded on the 25th anyways, and all these prices are subject to change, as they have already throughout the beta weekends.
The game is still in Beta, so I am almost 100% certain that things will change in the game/cash shop prior to the live launch. Beta reviews while a good read become out dated fairly quickly.
As to the cash shop prices and some feeling that they are footing the bill for other players who do not buy things from the cash shop .... welcome to the nature of f2p games. f2p games are funded by whales who spend a lot of money and that is why cash shops will always have some items that have a ridiculous price on it (because a whale is either willing to pay that price or unable to resist the item).
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but thanks to the power of Paypal I was able to get all my money back. So you're going to have to find someone else to fund your game.
Also I couldn't care less of what you think of me. I'm not here to kiss PWE's butt like you, I was in beta 4 and I'm going tell it like it is. I'm only interested in preventing other people on the fence from getting ripped off, and if I help one person with this thread then I will be satisfied.
By "all these people that tell you the cash shop is fine" I assume you mean those of us that were in beta 4. you know those of us that had already paid at leaast $60 a fairly normal B2P price and as such were in no way expecting you to pay for our playing time. So please stop with the BS line that we are defending the cash shop so we can play for free while you psy for us. throwing such insults just makes you look clueless.
We mentioned that there is nothing in the cash shop one needs to buy. Something you seem to agree with. You also agree its Not Pay2win. I can point out much worse/restrictive F2P gams like DDO, EQ2, SW:tor, etc were one has to pay for basics like Ui, The ability to equipe better items, or to open areaas to adventure in.
In the end you admit your impulsive and bought alot of things you shouldn't (in beta that has been wiped already even) as such you say the game was ruined not because the caash shop items were needed, or theF2P model was restrictive, but simply because the cosmetic items were too expensive to you. In fact you state you were in beta 3 for free, enjoyed the game knowlying then purchased the funders pack, then in beta 4 made more purchses before at the end of beta deciding you had been too impulsive and had made a mistake and demaded a refund.
With all due respect it sounds like you don't need to protect players from the cashs shop sounds like you need to protect yourself from your own inability to control your impulse spending.
Those of us in beta 4 already paid to play the game. You weren't funding anything.In fact you were in beta 3 liked the game freely bought the founders pack, and then in beta 4 made a bunch of purchases dispite knowing they'd be wiped, and then lhen at the end of beta demanded a refund as you had a chance to play for free a game we funded. (your welcome) ans knew you'd get the refund.
None of us here are kissing PWE butt those of us in beta 4 paid for the game, and are telling it like it is. ie its one of the most open F2P games currently out where one doesn't really need to buy anything and its not pay to win. (things you more or less have agreed with) Unlike you we are not saying PWe/cryptics cash shop is to blame for our inability to control our own impulse spending. Sure if you have to have purple dye for your armor and can't be bothered to spend the time in game to get it spend money if you want but don't blame the cash shop thats just you and yes all cash shops are built to try and take advantage of people that can't control their impulse spending. does the purple armor dye cost more in Neverwinter then it does in the games where you have to also pay for more then 2 hot bars, or were you have to pay to equipe anything better then a green item? Maybe, did you figure in the prices of thing you have to pay just to play in those games to their cash shop prices? ie purple armor dye cost plus Ui cost. or purple armor dye cost plus cost of ability to equipe armor thats rare or better? No I'm figuring you didn't.
In the end good luck finding a game thats fun and suites your spending desires.
With all due respect if you had read the thread, your opinion that the cash shop is fine is in the minority, and most people agree with me that the prices of the cash shop are too high.
The people in this thread want to know if the cash shop prices are too expensive, and the answer is yes. That's a deal breaker for many people. If you want try to play the game without buying anything, I wish you good luck with that. But the rest of us need not bother with this game.
I'm sure people would take your posts more seriously if you actually brought something from the cash shop, so feel free to come back to this thread when you have facts and not theories to support your claim.
And no I did not just buy cosmetic items. I brought a little bit of everything, companions, health stones, bag slots, resurrection scrolls. These are progression items and they are extremely expensive and no you don't get your money back after beta 4, you only get your zen back. I had previously looked up the Neverwinter forums for people asking for refunds and the majority said they were unlikely to get their money back. The cash is gone once you brought the zen. Most of the people that buy zen will not get their money back, I was lucky.
The reason why I said I screwed up is simply because I believed with PWE was selling. They will tell you their $200 founders packs are worth $700, and $60 pack has $140 worth of stuff in there. The Cash shop has higher quality companions are $20, and $30 each. I honestly believed that these items were worth their prices, because PWE SAID THEY WERE, But I made this post confirming that they are not worth it. No I didn't have to buy them, but I never made the argument that these items are Pay2Win. But if PWE tells you this item is worth $20 or $30 in Neverwinter, if you look at games like WoW, Tera, and Guild Wars 2, you will see this is not true.
I buy your reasoning, and it is the essense of the whole p2w problem that 10% pays so the 90% can play for free. Logic suggest this will become the case with Neverwinter aswell, because it has to be funded like any other game and customers are the only source.
However, I am missing specific examples - Everyone has opinions, but no one presents examples from the game to back it up.
So, On one hand I hate all this p2w and I hope customers will wake up sometime and recognize the hoax. On the other hand, if I want to play any modern game, p2w is the reality I have to accept. I like Neverwinter as a game, so what I am trying to find out is not whether it is p2w (I assume all free games are), but the degree of it, and what it means I would have to pay to play it on a level I find rewarding.
Examples please, back up your claims everyone.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
You first.
My only claim is that OP is disgruntled because he wasn't happy with his purchase. By itself, this is no big deal. But he also claims that this personal experience ruins the the entire game, regardless of whether or not you actually spend money on it, or are personally happy about your spending, which is obvioulsy false.
It's kind of like going to a restaurant and saying, "this food is terrible because it is expensive, but it does taste great."
I'm not surprised that people like you would result to personal insults.
I'm sure you love the idea of 10% of the player base funding your freemium game. If we can't agree this alone is unethical, then we're not going to have a honest conversation.
The truth is that it's more likely that people would purposefully mislead people into being that the cash shop prices are not an factor. So that people like me can to fund their game so they can play for free. How am I disgruntled when I got my money back? Does that make sense?
Neverwinter is an D&D IP cash grab. Just like STO before it.
I don't really see any part of my post that was insulting, but the part I don't agree on is that only 10% of the player base will be funding this. As nearly as I can tell, most players who play F2P games end up spending money on it at some point or another. That's the design philosophy behind F2P games, and judging by how many of them exist and how successful they are, it seems to be working. Regardless of whether they do or don't, however, F2P game makers like F2P players, because every person who plays - paying or not - is supporting the longevity of the game by being a part of it. I also don't agree that the prices are outrageous, nor did they ruin my gaming experience. Would I like cheaper things? Sure, who wouldn't. Did I feel like I got what I paid for? Yes. Even if I didn't, would I make the claim that the game was ruined by my personal feelings about the cash shop? Absolutely not.
Well that's the difference between you and me. I care about if other people and you don't.
If PWE says this item is worth $30 in the cash shop, if their $60 founder's pack has $140 and I brought it, and it's not, then I'm going to let people know about it. Buyer Beware!
Even the OP states its not P2W. His point is he believes the cash shop items are too expensive for what they do. So far (and its possible this may change) one can play the whole game without buying anything. Nothings blocked off, one doesn't need to pay for UI like extra hot bars, nore does one have to pay to equipe better items.
the closest thing I think i've heard of people say P2W in this game is the ability to buy zen to trade for AD's to then speed up crafting. AD's or astral diamonds can be gotting in game every hour or so in differeing amounts by invocation and other means.
I'm not buying the arguement that i had to have bought items in beta that are now wiped to have a opinion on weither the cash shop ruins the game. Everyones opinion in the end will be different anyway depending on their incomes, disoppible cash and enjoyment of the base game. i found i didn't need to buy anything in game in the first 20 lvls i played and that was without even having the items the founders pack gives one (a mount, and a companion etc.) others of course may want thing quicker and find the need to buy from the cash shop. So once again opinions there will differ
In other words, "beware: if you are unhappy with your purchases, you can get a full refund, as I did!"
That doesn't sound so bad to me.
Important to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
WoW is a subscription based game with a cash shop. Every item you buy from the cash shop you'd best aslo tact on that $15 subscription cost each month) Also add the game purshase cost as last I checked one had to buy at least the wow basic game along with the subscription to play.
GW2 is a B2P game not F2P at all you have to pay the $60 up fron t before you can even begin to play and see if you like the game. Then of course it does have its Cash shop. I've heard people spending just aas much in GW2 cahs shop a month as you did in Neverwinter ($20 right after you remove the $60 found pack cost which is comparable to GW2's BP2 box)
Terra was subscription with a game cost and still had $25 cash shop mounts. Its since gone F2P and I haven't checked on it so really can't give recent info on it. Does one still need to buy the base game making it B2P vs Neverwinters F2P?
Overall if you basing you price comparisons to subscription cash shop games ie WoW or B2P cash shop games GW2 then your not figuing in accurately the total price, weither its from the extra $15 dollars every month you pay for subscription or the upfront box cost of B2P vs F2P. Your arguement seems faulty in that its based on looking at only the cash shop prices compred to what you are forced to pay overall to even play.
Games cost money to make, mmorpgs cost money to run. No games are free, money must come from somewhere. Im not going to explain why 2+2=4.
I don't deny a game can survive on convenience items alone, but the line between convenience and must have is a fine one and also depending on your play style.
The only question for anyone is, what is the cost for me - And that is why I am asking for specific examples.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I don't quite understand how the prices in the cash shop can make a game utterly unplayable. If the shop isn't P2W (god I hate that branding, as most complaints aren't about P2W, they are about "I want free") then how can it ruin the game?
You have stated that you have money to spend and that you would rather spend money on cash shop items instead of grinding, and that's fine. Where your problem lies is apparently in the pricing, right? And if so, then you are correct that this game isn't for you, but to claim that the game is ruined for all is just nonsense.
I personally can't tell you what happens at higher levels, as I only made it to the mid 30s during beta, but I can tell you that the cash shop hasn't ruined anything for me yet. I had to buy exactly 0 items from the cash shop. Mounts? First one is paid for in gold, and although it isn't the coolest in the universe, it sped up my movement. Companions? Got my first one for free, and then got a second as a quest reward. They weren't a bear or anything cool, but they got the job done.
So to anyone reading this, I am just merely giving a counter opinion on the topic of the thread, which is the cash shop. Whether the prices are too high is up to each individual. The OP obviously thinks they are. I tend to agree with that, but Cryptic gets to set the value of their items, not us. Apparently they think they are acceptable and that enough people will buy them or they would lower the prices. As for ruining the game, I think that is a bit of a reach. The pricing may put the cash shop out of reach of some players, but you could completely remove the cash shop and the game would still be playable.
Personal note to the OP: Not sure how you can tell people to stick to the topic of the thread when your original post mentioned much more than just the cash shop in the first place. Sure, posting off topic is bad form, but you set the precedence when you rated other parts of the game.
Now we are getting somewhere. What I want is subjective yes, and the examples I ask for can only be subjective but it will give an idea what someone thinks based on their game style.
I have read all the posts and also the price list, but the price list doesn't say anything about whether what items are needed .. as in, will a bought merc be so much more powerful that it is effectively needed to do certain stuff, does time for farm something become so ridiculous that buying is needed - All as a subjective, but specific examples.
Well offcourse it is extremely hard to say anything about yet, and yet this is what doubters like me want to know about to make a sort of informed decision. General statements like "Cryptic always does this", and "its not pay2win" doesn't really help.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0