Originally posted by jdlamson75 Well, it's not like the companies (in this case, Aventurine) is posting real life names with addresses and phone numbers...they're posting character names and the offenses. New account, reroll, new life. Some players in DF1 were banned multiple times, only to snag a new account and start over.
Yeah but look at the wall of shame site: http://www.unholybanhammer.com/ clans you are in are mentioned aswell. So you might get kicked out of a guild if you get caught. You can get new account and new name. But it's required to use voice coms in most guilds and you can't change your voice
Silent bans and focusing on improving community will create a superior community to a game which makes cheaters famous by calling them out.
(Actually this is identical sentiment to what I said earlier today regarding the Boston explosion that killed two people: if society focused more on the heroes than the villains, we'd have more heroes and fewer villains.)
I was thinking the same thing. By calling them out you're giving them notoriety.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I think naming and shaming in some cases is justified. People who are flying ,wallhacking, etc, that sort of crazy stuff, I think their char names (not their IDs ofc, that would be taking it too far) can be displayed on forums etc with screenshot evidence and even confirmation by the company.
Naming and shaming people who have been banned for doing dumb stuff like making abusive comments in map chat (we've all had bad days sometimes) or who uses some consumable in an unintended way before it got patched (like the GW2 karma exploit for example), I say permaban them for sure, but don't reveal their char names.
it is kind of a 2 edged sword, I remember a game where when you got ban they had a grave yard that you were put in and had a head stone. People got banned just to be immortalized in the game.
Obvously you never seen all the cry babies who come over to mmorpg to complain they been baned, I thought it was funny when gwt outed these folks, some of that stopped.
Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
No. what would be the point?
If they remove them from the game then there really wouldn't be any reason for them to stay around. If they come back it would be with a new account. If that were the case then the company would have to permanently remove the name as an option as other new players might pick it and get whatever stigma that name brought.
Just ban them and get them out of that account.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Fuck yeah, crucify the cheaters, burn them at the stakes!
Well, the crucify part was done in 2006 to a ganker in Roma Victor (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/03/prweb362611.htm) so why not choose a fitting in game way of punishment for cheaters/hackers/griefers instead of a posting a list of names.
Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
Yes and share them with other MMOs..
it would be cool if it was possible to chare acconut details like email but im sure that would brake some laws.
its not impossible though, if the MMO companies decided to work together to create a 'list' of dodgy players, email addresses used to create the game accounts springs to mind, for games that have a subscription though, they could just ban the credit card holder of whoever created the account, though they wouldnt be able to share those details with other MMO companies.. it would at least enable them to block cheaters in their own game..
It still wouldn't matter. Its not very difficult to get another email address, buy a time card or to use another CC.
I say YES. Charater names only and only within the game in question.
I play a browser based MMO which has a "wall of shame" and it's useful too - sometimes players (still in the game) can see that the cause of dramas can be because of cheaters.
But, it's a double edged sword.
Developers (and Moderators) who wish to do this have to be accountable and accept that they are not always right.
If they want to post the (character) names of banned players they have to be prepared to face criticism when they get it wrong.
In the Browser Based game I mentioned above - the rules were often not applied fairly or evenly - and one banning in particular caused a rift in the community which has left bad feeling which still exists 2 years later. The situation was that a player found a 'loophole' in game mechanics that allowed him to stage a 'coup' of sorts. The community was left divided because many felt the action taken was quite clever and it was even described as tactical genius by some of the players who lost out because of it. Others considered it cheating and many couldn't even understand what had happened. The Developer was left with egg on their face although the ban was not revoked - and as a result several (paying) players left in disgust.
The "hall of the banned" in that game has also exposed the bias of some of the Moderators too.
As for making a 'cross game' database - definitely not.
I use 3 main online names.
I know for a fact there are other people using the same names elsewhere.
One of my Alt names is in fact used by a Online Poker Player. Aparently he (she?) is quite good too. Not me though.
I would like to see full list of botters, gold sellers and such crap, to be sure GM has done their job, I do not have any contacts with them.
Only I guess here should be delay: in case someone account got hacked.
I don't think it's a good idea to published list of offensive and such names, ban.
and why not admit, without names in this case:" we have banned X accounts of players disagree with our greediness, bad job, total fail, player base sold out etc"
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Fuck yeah, crucify the cheaters, burn them at the stakes!
Tasos
Update April 15th
I'm sorry we've left you hanging on the launch time, but we're trying to coordinate with our partners. In any case,our launch ETA through the Darkfall Unholy Wars store is 1pm GMT. We'll keep you updated on this as needed.
On another topic, we discussed cheating policies with the beta players a few weeks ago and I quote from the original post in the beta forums:
"On another topic and to give you some insight on what's happening around Aventurine, today we had a discussion on cheating, exploiting etc. In Darkfall Online while we banned more than a couple of thousand accounts we detected cheating, we never revealed names. We made a decision today to be brutal where it comes to cheating and do it "wall of shame" style, no exceptions and no appeals, besides the banning of all associated accounts, we will post the character names - we don't care if it's the account of a leader of the largest Alliance in the game with thousands of players associated with it - he should have known better. Darkfall Unholy Wars is a competitive game and we cannot be lenient with anyone trying to cheat their fellow players."
The response was very positive and we now have the Unholy BanHammer up and ready.
But what will that solve? It's the Internet. Like people post their real name here and picture, come on. This does nothing. Cheaters can make a new account.
NO, why? because some ppl use the same name in many different games. I would not like to join a game and have people say your so and so and your a known (whatever) and have ppl harass me over a name I chose for my character.
now with that said if they did put a wall of shame up with names.. the game dev would have to really be sure that ppl knew that certain names and they alternative spellings could be associated with said asshat. That would thereby reduce the number of names quite quickly I would think. Just my opinion..
Ah, if you are willing to cheat a little public "humiliation" isn't going to throw your game off. Hell, it'd be a popularity contest who could get on the most wanted list.
*insert resists temptation to insult legislative ignorance here*
Originally posted by -Zeno- Should game developers shame banned players by publicly posting their names?
Considering I just had a game account banned due to a hacker getting access to my account and using third party software, I'm going to say no. How unfair would it be to me to have my name associated with a banned account and it wasn't even my fault?
I think that there's a very limited advantage to telling everyone the accounts that get banned. I think perhaps there is more value in releasing proof of wrongdoing. Perhaps the problem is that if someone gets banned, they can turn around and say "I didn't do it." If the game company has a policy of not publicly discussing customer service issues with a particular account, they can't present their side of the case. The banned player can post snippets of emails taken out of context—or hell, he can even lie outright about what they said in emails to him. If the company could turn around and present logs showing that the player really did buy gold or hack or whatever, players would have a more positive view of the company and be much less willing to believe people claiming wrongful punishment. This would be less about shaming and more about making sure that people don't get to make the game devs look rotten for fairly enforcing their own rules.
League of Legends already does this with Reform Cards, by the way. Banned players are presented with a link to the chat logs of games they were reported in, and are encouraged to share that link with the community if they feel they were innocent.
When someone really makes a game community mad they end up on a forum Blacklist anyhow. There is no point in distracting the game makers from what they are SUPPOSE to be doing. Or lazy GM's from what little they do. It will not stop or discourage the immoral. You cannot push morality. And punishment is finite in it's usefulness. Try offering incentives to play by the rules instead. Then no one looses.
Yes!!. Post character names and account name of every cheater and exploiter BEFORE the ban, give them some hope of forgiveness and then out of nowhere hit with the banhammer hopecrusher.
With that said, If they post (and ban) someone inocent by mistake they have to apologize publicly and reward that player.
Comments
Sure why not. Put their real name, the player name, and the reason why they got banned, and screenshots.
Yeah but look at the wall of shame site: http://www.unholybanhammer.com/ clans you are in are mentioned aswell. So you might get kicked out of a guild if you get caught. You can get new account and new name. But it's required to use voice coms in most guilds and you can't change your voice
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I was thinking the same thing. By calling them out you're giving them notoriety.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I think naming and shaming in some cases is justified. People who are flying ,wallhacking, etc, that sort of crazy stuff, I think their char names (not their IDs ofc, that would be taking it too far) can be displayed on forums etc with screenshot evidence and even confirmation by the company.
Naming and shaming people who have been banned for doing dumb stuff like making abusive comments in map chat (we've all had bad days sometimes) or who uses some consumable in an unintended way before it got patched (like the GW2 karma exploit for example), I say permaban them for sure, but don't reveal their char names.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Obvously you never seen all the cry babies who come over to mmorpg to complain they been baned, I thought it was funny when gwt outed these folks, some of that stopped.
No. what would be the point?
If they remove them from the game then there really wouldn't be any reason for them to stay around. If they come back it would be with a new account. If that were the case then the company would have to permanently remove the name as an option as other new players might pick it and get whatever stigma that name brought.
Just ban them and get them out of that account.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It still wouldn't matter. Its not very difficult to get another email address, buy a time card or to use another CC.
I say YES. Charater names only and only within the game in question.
I play a browser based MMO which has a "wall of shame" and it's useful too - sometimes players (still in the game) can see that the cause of dramas can be because of cheaters.
But, it's a double edged sword.
Developers (and Moderators) who wish to do this have to be accountable and accept that they are not always right.
If they want to post the (character) names of banned players they have to be prepared to face criticism when they get it wrong.
For example: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/216638/page/1
In the Browser Based game I mentioned above - the rules were often not applied fairly or evenly - and one banning in particular caused a rift in the community which has left bad feeling which still exists 2 years later. The situation was that a player found a 'loophole' in game mechanics that allowed him to stage a 'coup' of sorts. The community was left divided because many felt the action taken was quite clever and it was even described as tactical genius by some of the players who lost out because of it. Others considered it cheating and many couldn't even understand what had happened. The Developer was left with egg on their face although the ban was not revoked - and as a result several (paying) players left in disgust.
The "hall of the banned" in that game has also exposed the bias of some of the Moderators too.
As for making a 'cross game' database - definitely not.
I use 3 main online names.
I know for a fact there are other people using the same names elsewhere.
One of my Alt names is in fact used by a Online Poker Player. Aparently he (she?) is quite good too. Not me though.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
depends what for they were banned, IMO.
I would like to see full list of botters, gold sellers and such crap, to be sure GM has done their job, I do not have any contacts with them.
Only I guess here should be delay: in case someone account got hacked.
I don't think it's a good idea to published list of offensive and such names, ban.
and why not admit, without names in this case:" we have banned X accounts of players disagree with our greediness, bad job, total fail, player base sold out etc"
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
But what will that solve? It's the Internet. Like people post their real name here and picture, come on. This does nothing. Cheaters can make a new account.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
NO, why? because some ppl use the same name in many different games. I would not like to join a game and have people say your so and so and your a known (whatever) and have ppl harass me over a name I chose for my character.
now with that said if they did put a wall of shame up with names.. the game dev would have to really be sure that ppl knew that certain names and they alternative spellings could be associated with said asshat. That would thereby reduce the number of names quite quickly I would think. Just my opinion..
Ah, if you are willing to cheat a little public "humiliation" isn't going to throw your game off. Hell, it'd be a popularity contest who could get on the most wanted list.
*insert resists temptation to insult legislative ignorance here*
I can see the list now:
" The following players have been banned for gold selling:
adajdhcb1
lgmrjcnwm
fuwoqxmfc
golldsellr
fremoney
The following players have been banned for griefing, botting, or breaking the ToS:
fallus
urmomsanoob
dbag
l33tk1ll3r69"
Lists are useless when anonymity exists so easily.
Considering I just had a game account banned due to a hacker getting access to my account and using third party software, I'm going to say no. How unfair would it be to me to have my name associated with a banned account and it wasn't even my fault?
I think that there's a very limited advantage to telling everyone the accounts that get banned. I think perhaps there is more value in releasing proof of wrongdoing. Perhaps the problem is that if someone gets banned, they can turn around and say "I didn't do it." If the game company has a policy of not publicly discussing customer service issues with a particular account, they can't present their side of the case. The banned player can post snippets of emails taken out of context—or hell, he can even lie outright about what they said in emails to him. If the company could turn around and present logs showing that the player really did buy gold or hack or whatever, players would have a more positive view of the company and be much less willing to believe people claiming wrongful punishment. This would be less about shaming and more about making sure that people don't get to make the game devs look rotten for fairly enforcing their own rules.
League of Legends already does this with Reform Cards, by the way. Banned players are presented with a link to the chat logs of games they were reported in, and are encouraged to share that link with the community if they feel they were innocent.
Just thought I would bump this since a number of people seem to be quite happy with this now that two people have been banned...
http://www.unholybanhammer.com/BH/
Fri, Apr 19, 2013: Valdon Drakonuss: Clan Sinister: Cheating
Thu, Apr 18, 2013: Seth Lyonheart: Cheating
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Yes!!. Post character names and account name of every cheater and exploiter BEFORE the ban, give them some hope of forgiveness and then out of nowhere hit with the banhammer hopecrusher.
With that said, If they post (and ban) someone inocent by mistake they have to apologize publicly and reward that player.
Theres other side of the coin too.
Now how does it look like when you look banhammers list ,what do you think ?
something like hey there is not many cheaters ?
what if they use that as a tool,to show people that hey look our game ,we dont have many cheaters ,buy now ?
because this wall doesnt fix cheating and exploiting,in DF1 they were not able to find and ban cheaters and this wall cant do that either.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
or even better. THe character impaled in front of the city. All of them.