I am happy there is no PvE!

taurak

Now that I really think about it, all the things that I DON'T like are PvE related.

I don't like doing tons of "kill 20 wolves and bring me their claws" quests.

I don't like having to go do a dungeon with a group of players who do horrible things, like pulling 10 mobs by accident and killing the whole group.

I don't like killing camps of mobs over and over, just to get to the max level and start being able to have fun in the game.

And I REALLY don't like having to do it all over again if I have to make a new character.

Why does almost every MMORPG make us do this?

 

In DAoC at least we had the option to level up in the "battlegrounds", Thidranki and such. WoW tried to copy that with theirs and failed miserably.

With CU we're not going to have to jump through weeks of boring content just to be able to get to the parts of the game we love. We're going to be able to make a crafter and start crafting, or make a PvPer and start PvPing right away.

Kinda like being able to play WoW and go right into raiding with a level 1.

In my oppinion this is awesome. Its going to make the game a lot more fun, and a lot less painful if you decide you'd rather be a warrior, or a mage, or whatever. Its also going to be a lot more casual friendly, which is good in my oppinion.

With full PvP as an end game theres even going to be enough content to make the most hardcore of players still have something to do, always. They don't have to think up a new Raid Boss for every expansion, they just have to think of new things about how to make the PvP even that much more fun.

This game is going to be just like call of duty in an MMORPG setting. You log in, and do what you want to do without being forced through a month of boring.

I love that.

 

DavisFlight

But there is PvE, just no PvE leveling.

cwtrex

Originally posted by taurak This game is going to be just like call of duty in an MMORPG setting.

I agree with everything you stated.  In fact, your description of the game play above is exactly how I try to explain it to those who've never played DAOC's RvR or GW2's WvW (and yes, I know the WvW is a poor comparison of what good RvR should be :-p).  In any case, when I attempt to explain it, I always get puzzled looks.

This leads me to my question section.  Does anyone else find they have this problem?  In order to make explaining RvR easier, does anyone have any decent Youtube videos or even an image that one uses to assist in explaining this wonderful gameplay?

I've shown some DAOC RvR youtube videos in the past to people, but typically it ends up being like one of those sports that's more fun to play then watch or explain.

Zinzan

Think of it this way, once you have had your fill of pvp, what then? 

Mmorpgs are a time sink, all of them, CU will be no different, it's just a different type of time sink.

Raiding keeps players playing and more importantly, subscribing.

How many months before the vast majority of players get bored of the same old thing over and over?

I hope MJ comes up with some kind of dynamic events or something to keep it interresting, but with a small indie company, small staff, limited funds.....well, we shall see.

 

cwtrex

Originally posted by DavisFlight
But there is PvE, just no PvE leveling.

There is no PvE as one would imagine in a purely PvE game or even in a game with both PvE and PvP.   The best description is: there will be some scripted mobs/NPCs intermixed with PvP.

Also, I would like to ask: in what other game can a player take over a mob/boss and how do you call that PvE?  Even if there are some purely scripted (not able to be taken over) mobs/NPCs, how do you say there is PvE when the majority of the action WILL be PvP?

cwtrex

Originally posted by Zinzan

Think of it this way, once you have had your fill of pvp, what then?

Crafting (buildings, houses, traps, etc) , watching the death cams, and taking over a boss (while this is technically PvP, it would be a break from normal PvP scenarios).

Exarchi

I agree with what you're saying Zinzan, and you could say the same for all hobbies and games being time sinks.

I believe it completely depends how fulfilling the PVP is. Many games have kept me playing for years with just player vs player combat. The combat doesn't have to be complex, but I do believe that the longevity of the game comes down to a player being able to keep improving with experience and skill gained over time.

Tamanous

Technically pve exists but it is being used as a tool within the RvR ruleset. It is as simple as saying pve isn't there to level you toward the core gameplay but rather it is very much part of the core gameplay.

 

I personally look forward to seeing how pve and the Dragons fit into the RvR. For a game that is not supposed to have pve, it's pve mechanics are turning into the most revolutionary part of the game. I love how MJ isn't flat out discribing this game as a sandbox when it entirely is one. He is smart enough to know this only sparks the whole themepark vs sandbox debate. It has been a very long time in the mmo market where a developer approached their game based solely on concept and not just a hodgepodge of collected ideas based on conventional industry templates and marketing concerns.

 

I remember a quote from a developer of Swtor at one point during ealier development. He was responding to a question about crafting (because at that point it wan't added to the game yet) and answered something like "We will have crafting. This is an mmo so it will obviously have crafting just like other mmos". What? You mean the game could exist without crafting with no impact to the current gameplay? Bioware added crafting because an mmo must "have crafting like other mmos". That was their reason? It will have warzones because other mmos have warzones? It will have raids because other mmos have raid? Seriously what exactly is the purpose of their mmo? What is the purpose of crafting with reguards to the core concept of the game? It becomes clear they added mmo type mechanics so the game could be called an mmo but strip it away and the core game is pretty much unaffected!

 

Not even discussing whether or not this game will be made or even be good I must admit I fully admire that every component to the game is being developed to compliment the core concept of the game. How many games can truly admit this? If crafting is taken out of CU 1/3 of the entire game is gone! Take pve away and a massive component to the Depths is gone! The "soon to be revealed" contribution of the Dragons, said to be a huge part of the lore and gameplay, would be gone! These aren't mini-games. They are core components of every moment of gameplay everywhere in the world.

 

That alone I find refreshing ... now to see if this vision can become a reality and if fans truly wish to jump on board.

General-Zod

Originally posted by Zinzan

Think of it this way, once you have had your fill of pvp, what then? 

Mmorpgs are a time sink, all of them, CU will be no different, it's just a different type of time sink.

Raiding keeps players playing and more importantly, subscribing.

How many months before the vast majority of players get bored of the same old thing over and over?

I hope MJ comes up with some kind of dynamic events or something to keep it interresting, but with a small indie company, small staff, limited funds.....well, we shall see.

 

Atleast some of the NPC's will be player controlled in some areas ...

Just think of all the other MMO's were the npc is just a bunch of scripts ... now thats... thats boring.

wordiz

I'll admit, they know their demographic. Most of the hardcore DAoC players I know hate PVE and don't engage in it at all.

BowbowDAoC

Originally posted by DavisFlight
But there is PvE, just no PvE leveling.

There's a big difference between PvE and killing deers and rabbits for their skins.

i dont consider the 2nd one being PvE, its more like herding.

PvE is usually considered where you kill NPC mobs to get xp.

Thank God this wont be present

BowbowDAoC

Originally posted by Zinzan

Think of it this way, once you have had your fill of pvp, what then? 

Mmorpgs are a time sink, all of them, CU will be no different, it's just a different type of time sink.

Raiding keeps players playing and more importantly, subscribing.

How many months before the vast majority of players get bored of the same old thing over and over?

I hope MJ comes up with some kind of dynamic events or something to keep it interresting, but with a small indie company, small staff, limited funds.....well, we shall see.

 

all games are time sink. but i much prefer to start doing stuff i love right at the beginning (RvR) than having to deal with weeks or months to get at a level high enough to be competitive in RvR.

To me, PvE in DAoC was like "the price to pay" to be allowed in RvR lol

And now CU is offering me RvR without the PvE, wich is awesome

 

Sornin

Originally posted by Zinzan

Think of it this way, once you have had your fill of pvp, what then? 

Mmorpgs are a time sink, all of them, CU will be no different, it's just a different type of time sink.

Raiding keeps players playing and more importantly, subscribing.

How many months before the vast majority of players get bored of the same old thing over and over?

I hope MJ comes up with some kind of dynamic events or something to keep it interresting, but with a small indie company, small staff, limited funds.....well, we shall see.

One could also say, "Once you have had your fill of raiding, what then?"

What makes raiding so special that it prevents burnout and keeps players subscribing? Most of the articles I have read that discuss the population of players that actually raid make it out to be a fairly low figure (I have seen under 10% thrown about), so I do not feel your argument is solid in that you claim PvP/RvR cannot lead to longevity, yet other forms of gameplay like raiding can. Why?

Anyway, I would be willing to agree that regular MMORPG PvP, where you go to an instanced battleground and beat people up for 15 minutes then get some points, is not enough to make a game out of. It has been tried a couple times (I wish I remembered the names of those games) and they failed. However, we are talking about a lot more than that. Sieges, territory control, The Depths, building things, player-dependant economy, etc.

If anything, I think the very social nature of the game, where your fellow players are important allies and not just people you see questing or who join your group in a dungeon finder instance and never talk, will lead to more longevity. When you join an actual community, where you interact with people, you form a bond, and social bonds create amazing longevity, not gameplay in and of itself. Gameplay can, however, set the stage for those bonds.

That being said, it is a niche game, but that is precisely why it can basically thumb its nose at players who are not going to stick around solely for the RvR experience. It is not chasing those players. It is chasing the ones who want the ultimate RvR game. Will there be enough of those? Well, we will see. Right now the Kickstarter is looking a bit shaky but if it funds, $2M of player money will have made a decent statement.

Ginaz

Its probably for the best since pve in DAoC was a gaint bag of fail.

Dreamo84

Good for you, not all PvE is bad though. Ironically DAOC's was pretty boring though all in all.

MikeJezZ

Originally posted by Tierless

Me too, all I ever did with PVE was rush through it to get levels to get to PVP faster.

Same.

 

Always hated new expansions in WoW: That mean't I had to do PvE to max level before I could PvP again.

meddyck

I would have been okay with there being a small amount of PvE leveling -- something like DAOC's first 25 levels. It's "end game" PvE that I passionately hate. The problem is it would inevitably have come with gear drops and gear grind which would have been expanded over time until soon you would be back to where DAOC went with TOA. And I've definitely had enough of that crap.

So yeah I am quite happy CU is all RvR. That makes all the difference between me donating $110+ and just sitting on the sidelines and watching the game's progress with skeptical interest like I am with TESO.