It is a bit bewildering when you consider that SWTOR was supposed to be Aces in the PVP department since they had what was left of Mythic designing it.
I know I can't think of a good reason. If the higher-ups considered all things WAR to be poison to MMO development, why use people who worked on that game on SWTOR? And if there was no hatred of WAR, then why weren't the people they brought over able to bring to bear even the smallest bit of their experience from WAR's pvp to SWTOR?
Maybe it's some internal thing we will never be privy too.
Maybe Bioware Austin resented EA for (in their minds) for addling them, and SWTOR's PVP specifically, by bolting Mythic onto Bioware. (EA has since divorced the Bioware/Mythic merger.)
Maybe Bioware Austin didn't give the Mythic PVP team any support, because they didn't respect them at all, considering WAR an epic failure.
Maybe the Mythic crew were kicking and screaming throughout development that there were major engine problems, to the point of warning EA they had a disaster on their hands. (Which wouldn't endear them to Bioware Austin.)
Perhaps it's no mistake on EA's part that the Mythic PVP team was kept, while the Bioware's PVE management was gutted.
At the end of the day, EA did put a Mythic (albeit perhaps a flunky) Jeff Hickman in charge.
I dunno, doubt anyone outside of a small circle of insiders will know.
If 2.0 was 1.0 nothing much would change because its just more of the same...even less because most hyped and interesting part (by BW) is missing...class stories.
Originally posted by Pongo_
It is sad that all a company has to do is lable a game FTP, and not only can they double dip on the playerbase. But the players will defend the company's actions.
Its more of triple dip now. sub+cash shop+(mandatory)paid content update
So like World of Warcraft then?
Nope. WoW doesnt have real cash shop with all the latest ingame stuff, and it has free content updates.
i know why,,he wants a star wars mmo..but a GOOD one
lets see how long it takes, before we get one
Bingo.
Not to mention it popped up in the recent thread stream and I watch all the recent threads to see what's interesting in the games I do/have played.
EDIT: Let me also be clear that I'm not interested in bringing SWG back at all. It was good for it's time, but we need to move on. Do I want a more open world SW MMO thatn SWTOR is? Hell yes. In fact, I would be all for a Darkfall: UH style SW game. Or at least something that's skill based insted of level/feat based.
We really do not need anymore WoW clones. They simply won't pull the players away... people have too much tied up in WoW to simply walk away from it for a crap clone. The game industry just can't seem to recognize this one simple fact that is intrinsic to the psychology of MMO players.
If 2.0 was 1.0 nothing much would change because its just more of the same...even less because most hyped and interesting part (by BW) is missing...class stories.
Originally posted by Pongo_
It is sad that all a company has to do is lable a game FTP, and not only can they double dip on the playerbase. But the players will defend the company's actions.
Its more of triple dip now. sub+cash shop+(mandatory)paid content update
So like World of Warcraft then?
Nope. WoW doesnt have real cash shop with all the latest ingame stuff, and it has free content updates.
Not sure whether this is a misunderstanding or just baiting. WoW does not have a "real" cash shop. A tiny, tiny number of vanity pets (that do not fight in any way) and mounts (that are no better than dozens of other ingame mounts) can be bought - check the link above to see how tiny the numbers of items are. What's more in a move that could, I suppose, be dismissed as simply clever marketing, 50% of the money raised has often (always?) gone to charity. The amount of money involved - by WoW standards is also pretty small based on the amounts of money donated to charity.
MoP was not free but that comes down to the debate about how big does an expansion have to be before it is called "an expansion".
SWTOR has gone F2P for some but remains a sub based game for others. The comparison with WoW is whether people who pay a sub for SWTOR are "getting as good a deal" as people who pay a sub for WoW. And the answer is "they are". They are getting the product they want. Are they getting as many pixels for their bucks? Not a chance. They are getting what they want however and that is what matters to them.
Now if EA milk kthem to much they will cease to become subscribers - and personally I feel that EA are taking its subscribers for granted they will leave. Doesn't give anyone the right to criticise them. Complain about how EA has messed up sure. The fact remains that they have messed up, its probably to late to recover the situation and now they are simply to get as much cash as they can - especia;;y as the devs jobs are (probably) on the line if they haven't been axed today / last week / last month: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/191261/More_layoffs_hit_EA.php
Would it have been different if SWTOR 2.0 had been 1.0? If the game had been B2P - so folks bought the box but didn't pay a monthly sub - possibly. A part of me thinks not but one assumes they would have sold more boxes.
Not sure whether this is a misunderstanding or just baiting. WoW does not have a "real" cash shop. A tiny, tiny number of vanity pets (that do not fight in any way) and mounts (that are no better than dozens of other ingame mounts) can be bought - check the link above to see how tiny the numbers of items are. What's more in a move that could, I suppose, be dismissed as simply clever marketing, 50% of the money raised has often (always?) gone to charity. The amount of money involved - by WoW standards is also pretty small based on the amounts of money donated to charity.
MoP was not free but that comes down to the debate about how big does an expansion have to be before it is called "an expansion".
SWTOR has gone F2P for some but remains a sub based game for others. The comparison with WoW is whether people who pay a sub for SWTOR are "getting as good a deal" as people who pay a sub for WoW. And the answer is "they are". They are getting the product they want. Are they getting as many pixels for their bucks? Not a chance. They are getting what they want however and that is what matters to them.
Now if EA milk kthem to much they will cease to become subscribers - and personally I feel that EA are taking its subscribers for granted they will leave. Doesn't give anyone the right to criticise them. Complain about how EA has messed up sure. The fact remains that they have messed up, its probably to late to recover the situation and now they are simply to get as much cash as they can - especia;;y as the devs jobs are (probably) on the line if they haven't been axed today / last week / last month: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/191261/More_layoffs_hit_EA.php
Would it have been different if SWTOR 2.0 had been 1.0? If the game had been B2P - so folks bought the box but didn't pay a monthly sub - possibly. A part of me thinks not but one assumes they would have sold more boxes.
So they have a store that sells in game items that cannot be obtained without spending real money and if you want to get to the new level cap you must buy the expansion. Thank you.
If 2.0 was 1.0 nothing much would change because its just more of the same...even less because most hyped and interesting part (by BW) is missing...class stories.
Originally posted by Pongo_
It is sad that all a company has to do is lable a game FTP, and not only can they double dip on the playerbase. But the players will defend the company's actions.
Its more of triple dip now. sub+cash shop+(mandatory)paid content update
So like World of Warcraft then?
Nope. WoW doesnt have real cash shop with all the latest ingame stuff, and it has free content updates.
FACT is ROTH is regular content update, well, until SWTOR failed, gone F2P and decided to triple dip subscribers, aka renaming regular content update just so they can put a price tag on it.
Even fanbois on this site try to cop out EA by mentioning DLC or some such crap. Its regular content update. No need for new "inventive" terminology. Just for purpose of triple dipping subscribers and to somehow make it OK.
OTOH, its also ridiculously overpriced. 1 ZONE for 20/25$ hahahahahaahhahaha, go EA. No wonder they are doing so poorly.
Anyone have quick link to James Ohlen, you know, PROJECT MANAGER for SWTOR announces free content update called MAKEB, seems that some people forgot the facts.
Sad part is that most of you ppl that are giving the reasons why game is fail or not worth of your money are not here only to point bad things, you are here also to cure your frustrations.
I can copy/paste almost the same type of coments from WOW, TERA, GW2, TSW, NWN.....
Also many of you are picking sides like this is a MAN UTD vs MAN City game.
There are good and bad things in every game thing is are you ok with the bad things and can you go over them.
All mentioned games have (some more some less) bad sides but if you as a player have fun and good timer playing it and can go over the bad things as they are something minor to you then you should play it, even pay for it.
When you draw a line under every game with your personal opinion you just need to ask yourself: "Do I have fun playing this game or not?".
If 2.0 was 1.0 nothing much would change because its just more of the same...even less because most hyped and interesting part (by BW) is missing...class stories.
Originally posted by Pongo_
It is sad that all a company has to do is lable a game FTP, and not only can they double dip on the playerbase. But the players will defend the company's actions.
Its more of triple dip now. sub+cash shop+(mandatory)paid content update
So like World of Warcraft then?
Nope. WoW doesnt have real cash shop with all the latest ingame stuff, and it has free content updates.
FACT is ROTH is regular content update, well, until SWTOR failed, gone F2P and decided to triple dip subscribers, aka renaming regular content update just so they can put a price tag on it.
Even fanbois on this site try to cop out EA by mentioning DLC or some such crap. Its regular content update. No need for new "inventive" terminology. Just for purpose of triple dipping subscribers and to somehow make it OK.
OTOH, its also ridiculously overpriced. 1 ZONE for 20/25$ hahahahahaahhahaha, go EA. No wonder they are doing so poorly.
Anyone have quick link to James Ohlen, you know, PROJECT MANAGER for SWTOR announces free content update called MAKEB, seems that some people forgot the facts.
hahahahahahahah
Very confused individual.
Oh, and btw, how are those monthly updates doing?
wooopsie.
You also left out how the free to play model nickle and dimes you in ways no other free to play game out ever has, oh well you want more ui bars, remember at launch how it was an issue you couldn't use 3rd party uis, here's why you have to pay us to use them all now. We have a 3 skill based crafting system, that to be honest is crap, but if you want all three skills that is going to cost you, want to wear rare drop gear, pay up. I've played a lot of f2p and freemium games out there. SWtoR is the only one that rips the players a new one like that. It's clear to anyone that all of it is a cash grab to try to recover lost revenue but it isn't doing jack for them because they game doesn't have what it needs to pull people in for them to spend that kind of cash.
If it was " here is the normal game, with all that was in it to a point, and you're paying to add on to that", then it would be something, but it isn't. They are making f2p players pay extortionistic fees for what is a basic game mechanic to force them to sub or sink more money than they should into the game. I remember being laughed at pre launch when I said if they were smart they would do life time subs and get a huge chunk of money from gamers up front incase it bombed. I smile knowing I'd of paid it had they done that, I smile knowing I didn't wase money.
I remember when this game was coming out, being in beta, and telling them the problems we all saw and BioWare having a hissy fit over it and screaming "just the little bugs and issues please, keep your traps shut about the big stuff." Why did they scream that, because they gutted the engine to make it work on more computers. The engine SWtoR runs on is built on character models that have full slider bars, 3 physics engines for the hair, and it's own algorithm for day/night/weather cycles. Instead of using it and saying look you need a better pc, they gutted it. Players said we want more races than the magic human rainbow. We got told no there too.
The basic fact of this game is, it bombed because EA and BioWare thought they knew better than the consumers what they wanted. They didn't. The end result of it all, Lucas Arts sold star wars to disney, EA is restructuring to do mostly mobile gaming according to their own press releases, and bioware is putting a lot of hype on DA3 because if it bombs then they might just sink with it. They expected to get the basic WoW crowd that didn't care and just wanted to veg, the problem is, they already have WoW, why did they need a new one?
Take a look at Star Citizen, it's made nearly 9 million dollars and it's not even out yet because it is making promises to cater to a niche of gamers that like harder, sand box space sim style, high requirment games. They went in looking to cater to that small group not to everyone. Now at the end of the day, if I'm an investor I go, that games made a lot of money and it's not out yet what did they do that tor with it's huge budget didn't do, and the answer is, they said give the people what they want. More interesting is they expect to launch a product in under three years, much shorter than ToRs dev cycle.
Now take that with a grain of salt, as no crowd funded game to date has launched and it could all fold up tomorrow, say sorry folks, and keep the money. At the end of the day buying a game is a risk, we all want that risk to pay off, for many ToR didn't. We bought the game wanting star wars, what we got was a game that forced us into a sub set of four bodies, and made us follow a line of three options, good, bad, and nuetral and the options didn't even follow what they said they were. So for many of us, it wasn't what we wanted and we felt like bioware let us down.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
Sad part is that most of you ppl that are giving the reasons why game is fail or not worth of your money are not here only to point bad things, you are here also to cure your frustrations.
I can copy/paste almost the same type of coments from WOW, TERA, GW2, TSW, NWN.....
Also many of you are picking sides like this is a MAN UTD vs MAN City game.
There are good and bad things in every game thing is are you ok with the bad things and can you go over them.
All mentioned games have (some more some less) bad sides but if you as a player have fun and good timer playing it and can go over the bad things as they are something minor to you then you should play it, even pay for it.
When you draw a line under every game with your personal opinion you just need to ask yourself: "Do I have fun playing this game or not?".
That is the whole point.
You cannot put WoW and GW2 in the same bag as Tera and SWTOR.
Some games are successful....and some are not. Its pretty clear what is what.
You see, fanbois on official forums BS with excuse "when SWTOR has gone "F2p" all previous deals were off".
BUT, i didnt see subscription lower due to lower quality/quantity, nope, they now expect you to pay MORE for much lower quality/quantity.
Its been a steady downhill since launch, getting worse and worse. And why is that? Because they fail to make money. And why is that? Because not enough people want to play and pay for it.
THAT is the whole point.
If you single handedly want to pay for complete SWTOR expenses, be my guest, THEN your point will actually be valid.
I've enjoyed the game more now that I'm playing it more casually. It has some good things going for, but the game is just downright encumbered by some very shortsighted game design decisions. Things like the difficulty of actually adding new classes or actual alien species to the game always meant that the game was getting out of the gate with a limp. (They can add new advanced classes with greater ease, but it does restrict their ability to play around with meaningful new mechanics.) The problem remains that there is very little unique outside of the leveling experience and trying to break out of that mold is too much for the current size of the development team. The ship was just too big to miss the iceberg, and the game is in full fledged maintenance mode.
Sad part is that most of you ppl that are giving the reasons why game is fail or not worth of your money are not here only to point bad things, you are here also to cure your frustrations.
I can copy/paste almost the same type of coments from WOW, TERA, GW2, TSW, NWN.....
Also many of you are picking sides like this is a MAN UTD vs MAN City game.
There are good and bad things in every game thing is are you ok with the bad things and can you go over them.
All mentioned games have (some more some less) bad sides but if you as a player have fun and good timer playing it and can go over the bad things as they are something minor to you then you should play it, even pay for it.
When you draw a line under every game with your personal opinion you just need to ask yourself: "Do I have fun playing this game or not?".
That is the whole point.
You cannot put WoW and GW2 in the same bag as Tera and SWTOR.
Some games are successful....and some are not. Its pretty clear what is what.
You see, fanbois on official forums BS with excuse "when SWTOR has gone "F2p" all previous deals were off".
BUT, i didnt see subscription lower due to lower quality/quantity, nope, they now expect you to pay MORE for much lower quality/quantity.
Its been a steady downhill since launch, getting worse and worse. And why is that? Because they fail to make money. And why is that? Because not enough people want to play and pay for it.
THAT is the whole point.
If you single handedly want to pay for complete SWTOR expenses, be my guest, THEN your point will actually be valid.
I can put any game in bag cause again you are missing the point.
Again and again. you didnt invented hot wather and you are pointing things that are legit from your view and many others and that is also legit.
You missed the point cause you still dont get it, cause you are bitter and you have every right to be, at the end you have your opinion.
Let me put it simple:
Poin of ANY game being that a WOW, Lemmings, Ghost`n` Goblins or Pac - Man is to have fun.
Everyone is paing for mistakes. We ll use SW:TOR for exsample cause that is the topic. You lost 50 euros maybe bit more and EA lost millions. Did they learned from the mistakes i guess not and they still are trying to force something that lot of us who played it from beta dont support.
On the other hand with all patches and DLC you have to pay for the price of a regular DLC game is better and can be even more better.
When I started leveling my BH and left Hutt as lev 10 i rarely saw ppl. That feeling that i generaly playing the single player game with option for multyplayer pissed me off and I quited 10 days after I dinged 50. Lets not get back and point all the bad things, buggs, no LFG.....
Now, they game have everything that they missed to put at the start (well, there is always more you can add) and I started leveling a new toon and there are ppl everywhere. You get to the point that you need to wait in line to kill enough mobs for you quest or to take something like the game just got live.
Thought it is cause lot of ppl are installed game for free and wanna give it a go that is why. Now i am lev 44 and still in every planet there is like 150-200 ppl in same shard and ppl looks more live then ever.
Most of are still pissed but game is much better now and it deserve a 2nd chance.
Love the feeling that I am at work and knowing that after i come home, play with my kids talk a bit with my wife I ll have awesome 2h to chill and have fun.
That is all about ANY game.
You cant wait to play it cause it is damn fun and you like it.
Sad part is that most of you ppl that are giving the reasons why game is fail or not worth of your money are not here only to point bad things, you are here also to cure your frustrations.
I can copy/paste almost the same type of coments from WOW, TERA, GW2, TSW, NWN.....
Also many of you are picking sides like this is a MAN UTD vs MAN City game.
There are good and bad things in every game thing is are you ok with the bad things and can you go over them.
All mentioned games have (some more some less) bad sides but if you as a player have fun and good timer playing it and can go over the bad things as they are something minor to you then you should play it, even pay for it.
When you draw a line under every game with your personal opinion you just need to ask yourself: "Do I have fun playing this game or not?".
That is the whole point.
You cannot put WoW and GW2 in the same bag as Tera and SWTOR.
Some games are successful....and some are not. Its pretty clear what is what.
You see, fanbois on official forums BS with excuse "when SWTOR has gone "F2p" all previous deals were off".
BUT, i didnt see subscription lower due to lower quality/quantity, nope, they now expect you to pay MORE for much lower quality/quantity.
Its been a steady downhill since launch, getting worse and worse. And why is that? Because they fail to make money. And why is that? Because not enough people want to play and pay for it.
THAT is the whole point.
If you single handedly want to pay for complete SWTOR expenses, be my guest, THEN your point will actually be valid.
I can put any game in bag cause again you are missing the point.
Again and again. you didnt invented hot wather and you are pointing things that are legit from your view and many others and that is also legit.
You missed the point cause you still dont get it, cause you are bitter and you have every right to be, at the end you have your opinion.
Let me put it simple:
Poin of ANY game being that a WOW, Lemmings, Ghost`n` Goblins or Pac - Man is to have fun.
Everyone is paing for mistakes. We ll use SW:TOR for exsample cause that is the topic. You lost 50 euros maybe bit more and EA lost millions. Did they learned from the mistakes i guess not and they still are trying to force something that lot of us who played it from beta dont support.
On the other hand with all patches and DLC you have to pay for the price of a regular DLC game is better and can be even more better.
When I started leveling my BH and left Hutt as lev 10 i rarely saw ppl. That feeling that i generaly playing the single player game with option for multyplayer pissed me off and I quited 10 days after I dinged 50. Lets not get back and point all the bad things, buggs, no LFG.....
Now, they game have everything that they missed to put at the start (well, there is always more you can add) and I started leveling a new toon and there are ppl everywhere. You get to the point that you need to wait in line to kill enough mobs for you quest or to take something like the game just got live.
Thought it is cause lot of ppl are installed game for free and wanna give it a go that is why. Now i am lev 44 and still in every planet there is like 150-200 ppl in same shard and ppl looks more live then ever.
Most of are still pissed but game is much better now and it deserve a 2nd chance.
Love the feeling that I am at work and knowing that after i come home, play with my kids talk a bit with my wife I ll have awesome 2h to chill and have fun.
That is all about ANY game.
You cant wait to play it cause it is damn fun and you like it.
Seems you missed the point....again.
Ignorance is bliss....for some.
Bitter? rofl, i dont get pissed off, bitter or w/e at computer games, i just point out turd when i see one. Emperor is naked and all that.
Luckily (well not for you) we can compare how successful games do stuff, and then we have how SWTOR does stuff.
Example:
WoW and GW2: FREE content updates
SWTOR: PAID content updates (on top of subscriprion)
Nah, it wouldn't. Most of the hate thrown at this game has nothing to do with what it is or was, truth is most of the people who keep ranting and raving about how terrible it is are doing nothing but repeating stuff they read in the forums because they really have no idea what the state of the game really is.
The problem, from the herd's perspective, has always been what ToR wasn't. Specifically, that it wasn't SWG V2.0, and thus they were, and are going to continue to, trash it no matter what.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
With LOTRO, STO and other F2P MMOs, when having a sub, there is less need to pay more. Every expansion with LOTRO can be purchased with Turbine points, and if you have a sub, then can use your monthly grant.
SWTOR is the only MMO that milks the cash shop to the extreme, they even have a reputation system for using it.
Makeb was intended to be a major free update, and with F2P it was not sure whether it be free to subbers, but then one month after F2P they decide to make not free to subbers, which indicates that they were waiting to see the figures from F2P - If enough were paying then it would be free, and if not enough paying, then it would cost.
Also WAR is not F2P or has a cash shop to the extreme that SWTOR is, as far as I know, so they are not putting in cash shops everywhere.
SWTOR went F2P as it cost loads, and were not getting enough players, and they saw the success of F2P with LOTRO etc, and wanted that success too, following the failed attempt to copy WOWs success with a sub.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Pretty much my opnion. As a subsriber I feel I'm getting my money's worth and haven't been ripped off. The cost of that expansion was less than what I pay at the movies and it has given me much more entertainment value. The main quest lines were the type that I have come to expect from a Bioware game as well as a welcome challenge. Some of those quests took real thinking beyond just killing mobs and I hope they add more stuff like that in the future. The dailies are also a nice change of pace.
I agree that crafting needs to be worked on,. There just doesn't seem to be much reason for endgame crafting beyond outfitting your companions. It's too bad because the crafting and companion system is a good one and it's ashaming that it isn't much needed at the end. PVPers just had an entire event devoted to them which is coming back again later this year.and it is about as balanced as it's ever going to be. They need to now add focus to giving it more of a meaning with capture and control points.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
With LOTRO, STO and other F2P MMOs, when having a sub, there is less need to pay more. Every expansion with LOTRO can be purchased with Turbine points, and if you have a sub, then can use your monthly grant.
SWTOR is the only MMO that milks the cash shop to the extreme, they even have a reputation system for using it.
Makeb was intended to be a major free update, and with F2P it was not sure whether it be free to subbers, but then one month after F2P they decide to make not free to subbers, which indicates that they were waiting to see the figures from F2P - If enough were paying then it would be free, and if not enough paying, then it would cost.
Also WAR is not F2P or has a cash shop to the extreme that SWTOR is, as far as I know, so they are not putting in cash shops everywhere.
SWTOR went F2P as it cost loads, and were not getting enough players, and they saw the success of F2P with LOTRO etc, and wanted that success too, following the failed attempt to copy WOWs success with a sub.
Last I heard and my information could be outdated, Turbine throws in some pretty serious perks for pre-ordering there expansions, and you can only pre-order with cash not your Turbine points.
As an Sto player outside of the vet rewards, having a sub does very little outside of character slots and inventory/bank space. In reality a subscriber to STO is still gonna have to acquire items from the cash shop either via dilithum trading or outright purchasing. Just using your cryptic points you get every month would require 4 months for a fleet ship or 5 months for tier 5 ship from the cryptic store. Content on STO is free though so their just double dipping.
EA has left WAR for dead, it would require an investment on their part to implement cash shop/ f2p in war. A much better example of EAs greed is Deap Space 3, a single player game that reminds you all the time of the cash shop.
If more people suddenly jumped back into SWTOR and their sub numbers/cash shop revunue both increased. Do you honestly think EA would let there next dlc be a free update. I don't, i'd be willing to bet they'd increase the cost of there next update to take advantage of the larger customer base to further increase profits.
I mean look at what they did when they announced the WAR MOBA was closing down. They put items in the cash shop on sale, a beta game, with an already implemented cash shop, has basicly a going out of business sale for a bunch of virtual goods that will be useless as soon as they close up shop.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
I dont really care for thier other games, especially ones that are not MMOs. And you are mixing some things pretty badly.
Before launch doctors said that SWTOR is made as subscription game and if you are suucessful you dont need F2P gimmicks. Thats right.
Really. You want to compare Turbines model? You really want to put SWTOR to shame.
In LOTRO as a subscriber you dont need to buy anything more than expansions. REAL expansions. Preoder gimmimcs are just that - gimmicks. Expansions are available in the shop the moment expansion launches so you can get it by TPs, so if you are subscriber and keep your monthly point grent you get it for FREE. Not only that, you can buy expansion content piecemeal or as a bundle (of course, they do REAL expansions so they actually have something to split, it would be hard to split 1 zone to anything really)
In LOTRO you can buy any content piecemel and you have it FOREVER, you dont rent out stuff for a week. If you unlock some raid/instance you can play it whenever and how much you want no matter sub/F2P.
In LOTRO content updates are FREE to subscribers, and F2P can buy(unlock) them forever for much cheaper than what EA charges for Makeb.
In LOTRO you actually have to think whether to go sub or F2P (premium) because both options are quite good and viable.
In LOTRO you can earn unlimited TPs through just gameplay to unlock whole game forever if you want.
In LOTRO majority of stuff is earned ingame while small amount goes to shop (opposed to SWTOR).
Epic story is competely FREE in LOTRO
There are no locked areas in LOTRO, you can grind your way to max level if you want to, that also includes fair amount of skirmishes, you buy only quests/raids/instances.
And lastly, LOTRO still has enough people supporting it to put out REAL expansions on yearly basis with content updates in between, they dont have to triple dip and start charging for content updates.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
I dont really care for thier other games, especially ones that are not MMOs. And you are mixing some things pretty badly.
Before launch doctors said that SWTOR is made as subscription game and if you are suucessful you dont need F2P gimmicks. Thats right.
Really. You want to compare Turbines model? You really want to put SWTOR to shame.
In LOTRO as a subscriber you dont need to buy anything more than expansions. REAL expansions. Preoder gimmimcs are just that - gimmicks. Expansions are available in the shop the moment expansion launches so you can get it by TPs, so if you are subscriber and keep your monthly point grent you get it for FREE. Not only that, you can buy expansion content piecemeal or as a bundle (of course, they do REAL expansions so they actually have something to split, it would be hard to split 1 zone to anything really)
In LOTRO you can buy any content piecemel and you have it FOREVER, you dont rent out stuff for a week. If you unlock some raid/instance you can play it whenever and how much you want no matter sub/F2P.
In LOTRO content updates are FREE to subscribers, and F2P can buy(unlock) them forever for much cheaper than what EA charges for Makeb.
In LOTRO you actually have to think whether to go sub or F2P (premium) because both options are quite good and viable.
In LOTRO you can earn unlimited TPs through just gameplay to unlock whole game forever if you want.
In LOTRO majority of stuff is earned ingame while small amount goes to shop (opposed to SWTOR).
Epic story is competely FREE in LOTRO
There are no locked areas in LOTRO, you can grind your way to max level if you want to, that also includes fair amount of skirmishes, you buy only quests/raids/instances.
And lastly, LOTRO still has enough people supporting it to put out REAL expansions on yearly basis with content updates in between, they dont have to triple dip and start charging for content updates.
Oh yes, EA won prestigious award of "worst company in America" second year in a row. Coincidence? Nope, they work hard to earn it.
And do you think the worst company in America would change their current pricing structure in anyway if they had more people playing. Because that is the point I was attempting to make. Because I don't believe they would one bit.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
With LOTRO, STO and other F2P MMOs, when having a sub, there is less need to pay more. Every expansion with LOTRO can be purchased with Turbine points, and if you have a sub, then can use your monthly grant.
SWTOR is the only MMO that milks the cash shop to the extreme, they even have a reputation system for using it.
Makeb was intended to be a major free update, and with F2P it was not sure whether it be free to subbers, but then one month after F2P they decide to make not free to subbers, which indicates that they were waiting to see the figures from F2P - If enough were paying then it would be free, and if not enough paying, then it would cost.
Also WAR is not F2P or has a cash shop to the extreme that SWTOR is, as far as I know, so they are not putting in cash shops everywhere.
SWTOR went F2P as it cost loads, and were not getting enough players, and they saw the success of F2P with LOTRO etc, and wanted that success too, following the failed attempt to copy WOWs success with a sub.
Last I heard and my information could be outdated, Turbine throws in some pretty serious perks for pre-ordering there expansions, and you can only pre-order with cash not your Turbine points.
As an Sto player outside of the vet rewards, having a sub does very little outside of character slots and inventory/bank space. In reality a subscriber to STO is still gonna have to acquire items from the cash shop either via dilithum trading or outright purchasing. Just using your cryptic points you get every month would require 4 months for a fleet ship or 5 months for tier 5 ship from the cryptic store. Content on STO is free though so their just double dipping.
EA has left WAR for dead, it would require an investment on their part to implement cash shop/ f2p in war. A much better example of EAs greed is Deap Space 3, a single player game that reminds you all the time of the cash shop.
If more people suddenly jumped back into SWTOR and their sub numbers/cash shop revunue both increased. Do you honestly think EA would let there next dlc be a free update. I don't, i'd be willing to bet they'd increase the cost of there next update to take advantage of the larger customer base to further increase profits.
I mean look at what they did when they announced the WAR MOBA was closing down. They put items in the cash shop on sale, a beta game, with an already implemented cash shop, has basicly a going out of business sale for a bunch of virtual goods that will be useless as soon as they close up shop.
Most of the extras you get for preordering LOTRO expansions with money, was so not worth it, and available as separate purchases in the store when the expansion launched.
That is mostly the case with all MMOs, except SWTOR, where you are locked out of stuff and can not even get it from the cash store, and the only way is to sub ie credit limit and some quest rewards.
Also I forgot to mention in my previous post that games like Madden and Dead Space 3 do not have monthly subs, and the stuff that they do add for DLC is for people who want to cheat / make the game easier, NONE of the stuff is ESSENTIAL to actually playing the game to the fullest. I have bought DS3 but have not purchased any of its DLC - I can get better stuff by just playing the game.
I do not have problems with putting general everyday speeders in the store, although could give players the choice of buying with credits or CC, and is the point of getting free CC. Considering SWTOR does have a sub things like Anniversary fireworks and Life Day Items in the store is just pure greed and laziness, as other MMOs give that stuff out for free or even create an enjoyable mission to get the stuff. It would be better if people who sub get it for free when logging in, but for people who do not sub, they get have to get it with CC
And do you think the worst company in America would change their current pricing structure in anyway if they had more people playing.
Yes I do. Especially the "expansion" as I explained earlier
It is done in the way now to maximise as much money from players as possibly, due to its enormous costs. The way the F2P is set up, is to get even subbers to buy from the store, and force F2Pers to sub. All other MMOs are fully playable as F2P or P2P, SWTOR is not fully playable as F2P
Comments
Maybe it's some internal thing we will never be privy too.
Maybe Bioware Austin resented EA for (in their minds) for addling them, and SWTOR's PVP specifically, by bolting Mythic onto Bioware. (EA has since divorced the Bioware/Mythic merger.)
Maybe Bioware Austin didn't give the Mythic PVP team any support, because they didn't respect them at all, considering WAR an epic failure.
Maybe the Mythic crew were kicking and screaming throughout development that there were major engine problems, to the point of warning EA they had a disaster on their hands. (Which wouldn't endear them to Bioware Austin.)
Perhaps it's no mistake on EA's part that the Mythic PVP team was kept, while the Bioware's PVE management was gutted.
At the end of the day, EA did put a Mythic (albeit perhaps a flunky) Jeff Hickman in charge.
I dunno, doubt anyone outside of a small circle of insiders will know.
Mists of Pandaria was free?
Also, what is this? http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5,c:33
Bingo.
Not to mention it popped up in the recent thread stream and I watch all the recent threads to see what's interesting in the games I do/have played.
EDIT: Let me also be clear that I'm not interested in bringing SWG back at all. It was good for it's time, but we need to move on. Do I want a more open world SW MMO thatn SWTOR is? Hell yes. In fact, I would be all for a Darkfall: UH style SW game. Or at least something that's skill based insted of level/feat based.
We really do not need anymore WoW clones. They simply won't pull the players away... people have too much tied up in WoW to simply walk away from it for a crap clone. The game industry just can't seem to recognize this one simple fact that is intrinsic to the psychology of MMO players.
Not sure whether this is a misunderstanding or just baiting. WoW does not have a "real" cash shop. A tiny, tiny number of vanity pets (that do not fight in any way) and mounts (that are no better than dozens of other ingame mounts) can be bought - check the link above to see how tiny the numbers of items are. What's more in a move that could, I suppose, be dismissed as simply clever marketing, 50% of the money raised has often (always?) gone to charity. The amount of money involved - by WoW standards is also pretty small based on the amounts of money donated to charity.
MoP was not free but that comes down to the debate about how big does an expansion have to be before it is called "an expansion".
SWTOR has gone F2P for some but remains a sub based game for others. The comparison with WoW is whether people who pay a sub for SWTOR are "getting as good a deal" as people who pay a sub for WoW. And the answer is "they are". They are getting the product they want. Are they getting as many pixels for their bucks? Not a chance. They are getting what they want however and that is what matters to them.
Now if EA milk kthem to much they will cease to become subscribers - and personally I feel that EA are taking its subscribers for granted they will leave. Doesn't give anyone the right to criticise them. Complain about how EA has messed up sure. The fact remains that they have messed up, its probably to late to recover the situation and now they are simply to get as much cash as they can - especia;;y as the devs jobs are (probably) on the line if they haven't been axed today / last week / last month: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/191261/More_layoffs_hit_EA.php
Would it have been different if SWTOR 2.0 had been 1.0? If the game had been B2P - so folks bought the box but didn't pay a monthly sub - possibly. A part of me thinks not but one assumes they would have sold more boxes.
So they have a store that sells in game items that cannot be obtained without spending real money and if you want to get to the new level cap you must buy the expansion. Thank you.
You are very confused individual.
MoP was EXPANSION, not regular content update.
FACT is ROTH is regular content update, well, until SWTOR failed, gone F2P and decided to triple dip subscribers, aka renaming regular content update just so they can put a price tag on it.
Even fanbois on this site try to cop out EA by mentioning DLC or some such crap. Its regular content update. No need for new "inventive" terminology. Just for purpose of triple dipping subscribers and to somehow make it OK.
OTOH, its also ridiculously overpriced. 1 ZONE for 20/25$ hahahahahaahhahaha, go EA. No wonder they are doing so poorly.
Anyone have quick link to James Ohlen, you know, PROJECT MANAGER for SWTOR announces free content update called MAKEB, seems that some people forgot the facts.
hahahahahahahah
Very confused individual.
Oh, and btw, how are those monthly updates doing?
wooopsie.
Sad part is that most of you ppl that are giving the reasons why game is fail or not worth of your money are not here only to point bad things, you are here also to cure your frustrations.
I can copy/paste almost the same type of coments from WOW, TERA, GW2, TSW, NWN.....
Also many of you are picking sides like this is a MAN UTD vs MAN City game.
There are good and bad things in every game thing is are you ok with the bad things and can you go over them.
All mentioned games have (some more some less) bad sides but if you as a player have fun and good timer playing it and can go over the bad things as they are something minor to you then you should play it, even pay for it.
When you draw a line under every game with your personal opinion you just need to ask yourself: "Do I have fun playing this game or not?".
That is the whole point.
You also left out how the free to play model nickle and dimes you in ways no other free to play game out ever has, oh well you want more ui bars, remember at launch how it was an issue you couldn't use 3rd party uis, here's why you have to pay us to use them all now. We have a 3 skill based crafting system, that to be honest is crap, but if you want all three skills that is going to cost you, want to wear rare drop gear, pay up. I've played a lot of f2p and freemium games out there. SWtoR is the only one that rips the players a new one like that. It's clear to anyone that all of it is a cash grab to try to recover lost revenue but it isn't doing jack for them because they game doesn't have what it needs to pull people in for them to spend that kind of cash.
If it was " here is the normal game, with all that was in it to a point, and you're paying to add on to that", then it would be something, but it isn't. They are making f2p players pay extortionistic fees for what is a basic game mechanic to force them to sub or sink more money than they should into the game. I remember being laughed at pre launch when I said if they were smart they would do life time subs and get a huge chunk of money from gamers up front incase it bombed. I smile knowing I'd of paid it had they done that, I smile knowing I didn't wase money.
I remember when this game was coming out, being in beta, and telling them the problems we all saw and BioWare having a hissy fit over it and screaming "just the little bugs and issues please, keep your traps shut about the big stuff." Why did they scream that, because they gutted the engine to make it work on more computers. The engine SWtoR runs on is built on character models that have full slider bars, 3 physics engines for the hair, and it's own algorithm for day/night/weather cycles. Instead of using it and saying look you need a better pc, they gutted it. Players said we want more races than the magic human rainbow. We got told no there too.
The basic fact of this game is, it bombed because EA and BioWare thought they knew better than the consumers what they wanted. They didn't. The end result of it all, Lucas Arts sold star wars to disney, EA is restructuring to do mostly mobile gaming according to their own press releases, and bioware is putting a lot of hype on DA3 because if it bombs then they might just sink with it. They expected to get the basic WoW crowd that didn't care and just wanted to veg, the problem is, they already have WoW, why did they need a new one?
Take a look at Star Citizen, it's made nearly 9 million dollars and it's not even out yet because it is making promises to cater to a niche of gamers that like harder, sand box space sim style, high requirment games. They went in looking to cater to that small group not to everyone. Now at the end of the day, if I'm an investor I go, that games made a lot of money and it's not out yet what did they do that tor with it's huge budget didn't do, and the answer is, they said give the people what they want. More interesting is they expect to launch a product in under three years, much shorter than ToRs dev cycle.
Now take that with a grain of salt, as no crowd funded game to date has launched and it could all fold up tomorrow, say sorry folks, and keep the money. At the end of the day buying a game is a risk, we all want that risk to pay off, for many ToR didn't. We bought the game wanting star wars, what we got was a game that forced us into a sub set of four bodies, and made us follow a line of three options, good, bad, and nuetral and the options didn't even follow what they said they were. So for many of us, it wasn't what we wanted and we felt like bioware let us down.
For all intents and purposes SWTOR is P2P game with these additions:
- very intrusive cash shop
- paid content updates
effectively triple dipping. It really is first of its kind where they try to keep the cake and eat it to.
Also lot of fanbois, even wirters for this site, try to bundle anything but Makeb and license to level to 55 in ROTH and the price. Which is FALSE as EA clearly said that other stuff (operation and old FPs) are part of 2.0 and NOT ROTH. Anyone who ignores this is just shutting his eyes, covering their ears and going "nanananananananan".
And what did Michael Bitton do after his first preview when he was pointed out to his big mistake? Correct it? Nope
He actually made another article with same crap. ROFL, as its so hard to go to official site and check what is actually included in your purchase. But i guess expecting correct info from this author is a bit much.
You cannot put WoW and GW2 in the same bag as Tera and SWTOR.
Some games are successful....and some are not. Its pretty clear what is what.
You see, fanbois on official forums BS with excuse "when SWTOR has gone "F2p" all previous deals were off".
BUT, i didnt see subscription lower due to lower quality/quantity, nope, they now expect you to pay MORE for much lower quality/quantity.
Its been a steady downhill since launch, getting worse and worse. And why is that? Because they fail to make money. And why is that? Because not enough people want to play and pay for it.
THAT is the whole point.
If you single handedly want to pay for complete SWTOR expenses, be my guest, THEN your point will actually be valid.
I can put any game in bag cause again you are missing the point.
Again and again. you didnt invented hot wather and you are pointing things that are legit from your view and many others and that is also legit.
You missed the point cause you still dont get it, cause you are bitter and you have every right to be, at the end you have your opinion.
Let me put it simple:
Poin of ANY game being that a WOW, Lemmings, Ghost`n` Goblins or Pac - Man is to have fun.
Everyone is paing for mistakes. We ll use SW:TOR for exsample cause that is the topic. You lost 50 euros maybe bit more and EA lost millions. Did they learned from the mistakes i guess not and they still are trying to force something that lot of us who played it from beta dont support.
On the other hand with all patches and DLC you have to pay for the price of a regular DLC game is better and can be even more better.
When I started leveling my BH and left Hutt as lev 10 i rarely saw ppl. That feeling that i generaly playing the single player game with option for multyplayer pissed me off and I quited 10 days after I dinged 50. Lets not get back and point all the bad things, buggs, no LFG.....
Now, they game have everything that they missed to put at the start (well, there is always more you can add) and I started leveling a new toon and there are ppl everywhere. You get to the point that you need to wait in line to kill enough mobs for you quest or to take something like the game just got live.
Thought it is cause lot of ppl are installed game for free and wanna give it a go that is why. Now i am lev 44 and still in every planet there is like 150-200 ppl in same shard and ppl looks more live then ever.
Most of are still pissed but game is much better now and it deserve a 2nd chance.
Love the feeling that I am at work and knowing that after i come home, play with my kids talk a bit with my wife I ll have awesome 2h to chill and have fun.
That is all about ANY game.
You cant wait to play it cause it is damn fun and you like it.
Seems you missed the point....again.
Ignorance is bliss....for some.
Bitter? rofl, i dont get pissed off, bitter or w/e at computer games, i just point out turd when i see one. Emperor is naked and all that.
Luckily (well not for you) we can compare how successful games do stuff, and then we have how SWTOR does stuff.
Example:
WoW and GW2: FREE content updates
SWTOR: PAID content updates (on top of subscriprion)
Quoted for truth, at least 90% of
The cash shop as a subscriber at least is totally unintrusive, just a tiny icon (it can be shrunk in the ui editor quite easily) I only ever spend the monthly allocated cartel coins from my sub+security key in there & it's 99% cosmetic fluff, bulk of my coins went on legacy perks like rocket boost, ship gtn terminal etc anyway.
I am perfectly happy to buy dlc updates to continue supporting the game, I felt 9.99 was extremely good value for money for RoTHC, my only real gripe was how sloppy crafting was handled & that they really did nothing to improve the state of it. I could see how people who "only" PvP to the exclusion of any PvE might feel short-changed perhaps but the game isn't built as a PvP only game.
I feel SWTOR is steadily improving, it does have a lot of things it needs to address but I enjoy playing it and feel it is entertaining & worth my time & money.
Im glad, now if you only could find enough other people that think like you SWTOR wouldnt have to triple dip their subscribers.
Bummer.
You act like the payment method EA picked is an exact representation of SWTORs player numbers. This is the company who puts cash shop like micro transactions into single player games. They've been doing it with madden for years via ultimate teams and unlocks(unlocks that you can get just for playing the game mind you). I have no doubt in my mind this game could have 5 million subscribers and EA would be using the same payment method there using now. The cash shop was something that they said was comming before the game even launched.
Turbine's been using this payment method for years to so its not like EA is the first, EA is greedy and will always go the route that will bring in the largest potential profits.
I'm actually a little surprised EA didn't break the planet in a half release the first half of the planet for 10/20 dollars. Then a month or two later release the second half for the same price. I mean if there going to rip off Turbine's payment model they may as well do it right.
With LOTRO, STO and other F2P MMOs, when having a sub, there is less need to pay more. Every expansion with LOTRO can be purchased with Turbine points, and if you have a sub, then can use your monthly grant.
SWTOR is the only MMO that milks the cash shop to the extreme, they even have a reputation system for using it.
Makeb was intended to be a major free update, and with F2P it was not sure whether it be free to subbers, but then one month after F2P they decide to make not free to subbers, which indicates that they were waiting to see the figures from F2P - If enough were paying then it would be free, and if not enough paying, then it would cost.
Also WAR is not F2P or has a cash shop to the extreme that SWTOR is, as far as I know, so they are not putting in cash shops everywhere.
SWTOR went F2P as it cost loads, and were not getting enough players, and they saw the success of F2P with LOTRO etc, and wanted that success too, following the failed attempt to copy WOWs success with a sub.
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Pretty much my opnion. As a subsriber I feel I'm getting my money's worth and haven't been ripped off. The cost of that expansion was less than what I pay at the movies and it has given me much more entertainment value. The main quest lines were the type that I have come to expect from a Bioware game as well as a welcome challenge. Some of those quests took real thinking beyond just killing mobs and I hope they add more stuff like that in the future. The dailies are also a nice change of pace.
I agree that crafting needs to be worked on,. There just doesn't seem to be much reason for endgame crafting beyond outfitting your companions. It's too bad because the crafting and companion system is a good one and it's ashaming that it isn't much needed at the end. PVPers just had an entire event devoted to them which is coming back again later this year.and it is about as balanced as it's ever going to be. They need to now add focus to giving it more of a meaning with capture and control points.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Last I heard and my information could be outdated, Turbine throws in some pretty serious perks for pre-ordering there expansions, and you can only pre-order with cash not your Turbine points.
As an Sto player outside of the vet rewards, having a sub does very little outside of character slots and inventory/bank space. In reality a subscriber to STO is still gonna have to acquire items from the cash shop either via dilithum trading or outright purchasing. Just using your cryptic points you get every month would require 4 months for a fleet ship or 5 months for tier 5 ship from the cryptic store. Content on STO is free though so their just double dipping.
EA has left WAR for dead, it would require an investment on their part to implement cash shop/ f2p in war. A much better example of EAs greed is Deap Space 3, a single player game that reminds you all the time of the cash shop.
If more people suddenly jumped back into SWTOR and their sub numbers/cash shop revunue both increased. Do you honestly think EA would let there next dlc be a free update. I don't, i'd be willing to bet they'd increase the cost of there next update to take advantage of the larger customer base to further increase profits.
I mean look at what they did when they announced the WAR MOBA was closing down. They put items in the cash shop on sale, a beta game, with an already implemented cash shop, has basicly a going out of business sale for a bunch of virtual goods that will be useless as soon as they close up shop.
I dont really care for thier other games, especially ones that are not MMOs. And you are mixing some things pretty badly.
Before launch doctors said that SWTOR is made as subscription game and if you are suucessful you dont need F2P gimmicks. Thats right.
Really. You want to compare Turbines model? You really want to put SWTOR to shame.
In LOTRO as a subscriber you dont need to buy anything more than expansions. REAL expansions. Preoder gimmimcs are just that - gimmicks. Expansions are available in the shop the moment expansion launches so you can get it by TPs, so if you are subscriber and keep your monthly point grent you get it for FREE. Not only that, you can buy expansion content piecemeal or as a bundle (of course, they do REAL expansions so they actually have something to split, it would be hard to split 1 zone to anything really)
In LOTRO you can buy any content piecemel and you have it FOREVER, you dont rent out stuff for a week. If you unlock some raid/instance you can play it whenever and how much you want no matter sub/F2P.
In LOTRO content updates are FREE to subscribers, and F2P can buy(unlock) them forever for much cheaper than what EA charges for Makeb.
In LOTRO you actually have to think whether to go sub or F2P (premium) because both options are quite good and viable.
In LOTRO you can earn unlimited TPs through just gameplay to unlock whole game forever if you want.
In LOTRO majority of stuff is earned ingame while small amount goes to shop (opposed to SWTOR).
Epic story is competely FREE in LOTRO
There are no locked areas in LOTRO, you can grind your way to max level if you want to, that also includes fair amount of skirmishes, you buy only quests/raids/instances.
And lastly, LOTRO still has enough people supporting it to put out REAL expansions on yearly basis with content updates in between, they dont have to triple dip and start charging for content updates.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/24/the-lord-of-the-rings-online-helms-deep-expansion-announced?abthid=51780fb42eddcd4c29000016
Oh yes, EA won prestigious award of "worst company in America" second year in a row. Coincidence? Nope, they work hard to earn it.
And do you think the worst company in America would change their current pricing structure in anyway if they had more people playing. Because that is the point I was attempting to make. Because I don't believe they would one bit.
Most of the extras you get for preordering LOTRO expansions with money, was so not worth it, and available as separate purchases in the store when the expansion launched.
That is mostly the case with all MMOs, except SWTOR, where you are locked out of stuff and can not even get it from the cash store, and the only way is to sub ie credit limit and some quest rewards.
Also I forgot to mention in my previous post that games like Madden and Dead Space 3 do not have monthly subs, and the stuff that they do add for DLC is for people who want to cheat / make the game easier, NONE of the stuff is ESSENTIAL to actually playing the game to the fullest. I have bought DS3 but have not purchased any of its DLC - I can get better stuff by just playing the game.
I do not have problems with putting general everyday speeders in the store, although could give players the choice of buying with credits or CC, and is the point of getting free CC. Considering SWTOR does have a sub things like Anniversary fireworks and Life Day Items in the store is just pure greed and laziness, as other MMOs give that stuff out for free or even create an enjoyable mission to get the stuff. It would be better if people who sub get it for free when logging in, but for people who do not sub, they get have to get it with CC
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Hello,
question - is there a space sim coming for this game like Jump to Lightspeed, yes or no, if yes when?
also - what about Pazaak and Swoop racing from KTOR?
Cheers
Doc B
Yes I do. Especially the "expansion" as I explained earlier
It is done in the way now to maximise as much money from players as possibly, due to its enormous costs. The way the F2P is set up, is to get even subbers to buy from the store, and force F2Pers to sub. All other MMOs are fully playable as F2P or P2P, SWTOR is not fully playable as F2P
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