Originally posted by ShakyMo Lol at large scale pve.
Wow 40 people in an instance isn't large scale pve.
Remember the good times with 40 man Molten Core raids.
Waiting for people at entrance for 2 hours was so much fun.
Then explaining what people have to do for another 30 minutes.
Who doesnt want that back?
I think you have the wrong guild. Organized guilds start raids on time or even early. In organized guilds all raiders come prepared knowing the strats, with consumeables, knowing their class or they will not be coming back. What you are describing is not raiding but a disorganized pug. Any guild that tries to raid like you descibed should not be raiding as its a waste of everyones time.
^Pretty much this. Wildstar devs have stated their 40 man raids are for the top 1%. Those guilds whose members do not put in the extra time and effort to know the strats (if possble), class, and show up on time are being assholes to the other guild members and do not belong in that raiding scene.
Now I understand many seeing that as eliteist and jerky. Call it what you want, but those 40 man raids from vanilla WoW had the strongest community and made the game so much more enjoyable and satisfying. No, its not for everyone, and Wildstar knows that too. They are developing the normal dungeons and from what I remember 20 man raids targeted towards the less hardcore crowd.
To top it off, the story and heavy lore part of the game is the soloable content. They are keeping that out of the 40 mans so that everyone can experience the same story content (a big problem with vanilla WoW). We won't know for sure how this will pan out, but imo Wildstar is doing it right and focusing on bringing back guild communities that many of the "new" mmo's have negleted.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Lol at large scale pve.
Wow 40 people in an instance isn't large scale pve.
Remember the good times with 40 man Molten Core raids.
Waiting for people at entrance for 2 hours was so much fun.
Then explaining what people have to do for another 30 minutes.
Who doesnt want that back?
I think you have the wrong guild. Organized guilds start raids on time or even early. In organized guilds all raiders come prepared knowing the strats, with consumeables, knowing their class or they will not be coming back. What you are describing is not raiding but a disorganized pug. Any guild that tries to raid like you descibed should not be raiding as its a waste of everyones time.
^Pretty much this. Wildstar devs have stated their 40 man raids are for the top 1%. Those guilds whose members do not put in the extra time and effort to know the strats (if possble), class, and show up on time are being assholes to the other guild members and do not belong in that raiding scene.
Now I understand many seeing that as eliteist and jerky. Call it what you want, but those 40 man raids from vanilla WoW had the strongest community and made the game so much more enjoyable and satisfying. No, its not for everyone, and Wildstar knows that too. They are developing the normal dungeons and from what I remember 20 man raids targeted towards the less hardcore crowd.
To top it off, the story and heavy lore part of the game is the soloable content. They are keeping that out of the 40 mans so that everyone can experience the same story content (a big problem with vanilla WoW). We won't know for sure how this will pan out, but imo Wildstar is doing it right and focusing on bringing back guild communities that many of the "new" mmo's have negleted.
I agree with your last point about guild communities. To be honest, I saw no real value in any recent game (for a few years now) of being in a guild other than to feel like I am part of something. Regardless, like you said, we won't know for sure how this will pan out, as everything to me is speculation.
Honestly, I would love to see the Devs of this game make more and more difficult raids, but not have that difficulty be dependant on "just getting the next tier of gear".
At the top have something so hard that it is almost impossible to beat. That would give people something to really work on and brag about with a cool unique title that no one else would have if they are willing to put that type of time and discipline into it. Give those raiders a seriously hard dungeon!
It's got housing, combat that is based on skill shots instead of auto/tab target, different class and build combinations, exclusive content/features available to certain playstyles, and it's focused mainly on PvE. What is not appealing about this game? If the best you can do is say that it's nothing new, then you're missing the point. I agree that this game isn't bringing anything new to the table, because it really just intends to implement certain features in the MMORPG setting in the way that they were originally implemented in SRPGs and other games. How well they implement these elements is really going to define their success.
The main appeal to me is the fact that you can choose your playstyle and get rewarded for it in addition to just killing enemies or farming instances for gear.
I personally am going to be an adventurer because I like to go looking for cool stuff in games like easter eggs and hidden content. The best is when you find a piece of lore somewhere where you didn't expect. Finding stuff is what I do in SRPGs anyways, now I can get equal rewards in MMORPGs too.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift. I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough. I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
I almost exclusively play MMORPG games for their potential. Wildstar has a bunch of amazing features available at launch that offer... surprise surpise, typical MMORPG faire.
Potentially though, I'll be building my character to do these things in the future...
A) Escape the standard MMORPG combat where mobs are 2 second affairs that will NEVER offer me a lick of challenge or potential for challenge. I'll accomplish this by mastering the telegraph combat system and expect areas in the future for people that love individual or small group challenges. This would be a great way to continue to crave the storyline.
Build my reputation through war-plot building and to see how they evolve to be different than battle-grounds. Master the launch systems so I can be excited about additions.
C) Stay at the head of the raid curve, see if Wildstar raids become as big a deal as WoW raids were back in Late Vanilla through early WotLK. All the while, carefully watch to see if I am able to play for progression and challenge and not the art of getting better gear so you may in turn attempt to get better gear...
D) Thank the maker for active dodging, even if I am bored to tears of GW2 at this point - it has raised the bar of what I want to do with my character in an MMORPG game that thankfully is filled by Wildstar.
E) It's a new release, and I want to Twitch TV it.
There are ZERO games that allow you to attempt to prepare and master this broad a spectrum of systems in current production or release. So saying the game is "nothing new" is true and false. Truth be told, there are a lot of systems directly derivative of currently released ones. However, saying that there is anything directly equivalent to Warplots, 40 Man raids this day and age or Skill Shot Telegraph based combat in an MMO is false.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Originally posted by keithian I guess one of the problem I'm having is that like in Skyrim, I LOVE exploring. I like to see the beauty of the world, stand on a rock and looks at a beautiful waterfall, or the landscape, or the detail of rocks, etc. so if something feels too cartoony, I feel as if its a big ding in what I love to do for my particular play style. Exploring to me isn't about just looking for open paths so others can have access to those paths or finding places just to do the same thing I was doing in the places I couldn't fine. It isn't about jumping puzzles. Its about absorbing the beauty of the world. That is why realistic art appeals to me more. I want to loose myself in a world different from real life. I totally get after reading a lot of posts here that it is not everyone's same feeling, but maybe when I get my hands on this game the detail of the cartoony style will change my mind. I loved WOW and I didn't mind its art because that was the first MMO I played back in 2003 or 2004 and that entirely new experience as a whole was a big wow to me after only playing single player games on consoles.
And yet you are asking for realistic art that looks exactly like the real world.
Originally posted by keithian I guess one of the problem I'm having is that like in Skyrim, I LOVE exploring. I like to see the beauty of the world, stand on a rock and looks at a beautiful waterfall, or the landscape, or the detail of rocks, etc. so if something feels too cartoony, I feel as if its a big ding in what I love to do for my particular play style. Exploring to me isn't about just looking for open paths so others can have access to those paths or finding places just to do the same thing I was doing in the places I couldn't fine. It isn't about jumping puzzles. Its about absorbing the beauty of the world. That is why realistic art appeals to me more. I want to loose myself in a world different from real life. I totally get after reading a lot of posts here that it is not everyone's same feeling, but maybe when I get my hands on this game the detail of the cartoony style will change my mind. I loved WOW and I didn't mind its art because that was the first MMO I played back in 2003 or 2004 and that entirely new experience as a whole was a big wow to me after only playing single player games on consoles.
And yet you are asking for realistic art that looks exactly like the real world.
What is the point of your post? I didn't say I wanted a street view of google maps in Los Angeles where I live. I prefer realistic graphics. Look people, all of you are entitled to your preference of cartoony graphics and maybe you get excited by a monkey throwing bananas, but there is a reason why there is a target audience for sat morning cartoons and it isn't adults even if there are adults who still watch them.
I will say that some of the posts in this thread were helpful and enlightened me about a couple of approaches I think are interesting (so thanks) and like i said i am going to try it to see if the fun factor is all that is being promised, but to me the style of graphics are a major turnoff and I suspect it is for many.
Originally posted by keithian I guess one of the problem I'm having is that like in Skyrim, I LOVE exploring. I like to see the beauty of the world, stand on a rock and looks at a beautiful waterfall, or the landscape, or the detail of rocks, etc. so if something feels too cartoony, I feel as if its a big ding in what I love to do for my particular play style. Exploring to me isn't about just looking for open paths so others can have access to those paths or finding places just to do the same thing I was doing in the places I couldn't fine. It isn't about jumping puzzles. Its about absorbing the beauty of the world. That is why realistic art appeals to me more. I want to loose myself in a world different from real life. I totally get after reading a lot of posts here that it is not everyone's same feeling, but maybe when I get my hands on this game the detail of the cartoony style will change my mind. I loved WOW and I didn't mind its art because that was the first MMO I played back in 2003 or 2004 and that entirely new experience as a whole was a big wow to me after only playing single player games on consoles.
And yet you are asking for realistic art that looks exactly like the real world.
What is the point of your post? I didn't say I wanted a street view of google maps in Los Angeles where I live. I prefer realistic graphics. Look people, all of you are entitled to your preference of cartoony graphics and maybe you get excited by a monkey throwing bananas, but there is a reason why there is a target audience (children) for sat morning cartoons and it isn't adults even if there are adults who still watch them.
I will say that some of the posts in this thread were helpful and enlightened me about a couple of approaches I think are interesting (so thanks) and like i said i am going to try it to see if the fun factor is all that is being promised, but to me the style of graphics are a major turnoff and I suspect it is for many.
What people like is relative to their past experiences. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to play the game due to the art style. This is your judgment and there's no reason for anyone to try and change it. For me, the game is beautiful and fits a lot of what I want in an MMO; you and I are not the same.
Skyrim was a boring game for me. The graphics fit the game-play, though it didn't hold my interests (and as a User Interface designer, I hated the UI in the game). I have an amazing PC system that can display the graphics very well, though the game itself feels sluggish and boring. My past experiences cater my likes to skill based games. Mario has some great game-play mechanics and a perfect art style to accompany it. Mario had a wide age range for the demographic; not just kids. Can you imagine Mario with Skyrim graphics? It's important to match game-play mechanics and story with art style and I feel WildStar did that very well.
Illustrated != kids (not equal). A lot of anime look very similar in style (differing slightly to fit the story), though appeases many age groups. Borderlands has an illustrated look and it's fantastic. I think if WildStart looked like Skyrim, it would be horrible.
To be different in this industry is to not cater to realism. Even with the new UDK 4.0, the launch title is Fortnite: with highly stylized graphics. It's 'good' to not have ultra realistic graphics. I'd rather take game-play over graphics any day.
The good thing is, there's tons of developers who take the easy road and license a game engine that has built in realism. So, you're in luck. Lots of games to choose from. Sorry we won't see you in WildStar . . . that's just one more beta key to someone who is looking forward to this amazing looking game.
Originally posted by keithian I guess one of the problem I'm having is that like in Skyrim, I LOVE exploring. I like to see the beauty of the world, stand on a rock and looks at a beautiful waterfall, or the landscape, or the detail of rocks, etc. so if something feels too cartoony, I feel as if its a big ding in what I love to do for my particular play style. Exploring to me isn't about just looking for open paths so others can have access to those paths or finding places just to do the same thing I was doing in the places I couldn't fine. It isn't about jumping puzzles. Its about absorbing the beauty of the world. That is why realistic art appeals to me more. I want to loose myself in a world different from real life. I totally get after reading a lot of posts here that it is not everyone's same feeling, but maybe when I get my hands on this game the detail of the cartoony style will change my mind. I loved WOW and I didn't mind its art because that was the first MMO I played back in 2003 or 2004 and that entirely new experience as a whole was a big wow to me after only playing single player games on consoles.
And yet you are asking for realistic art that looks exactly like the real world.
What is the point of your post? I didn't say I wanted a street view of google maps in Los Angeles where I live. I prefer realistic graphics. Look people, all of you are entitled to your preference of cartoony graphics and maybe you get excited by a monkey throwing bananas, but there is a reason why there is a target audience (children) for sat morning cartoons and it isn't adults even if there are adults who still watch them.
I will say that some of the posts in this thread were helpful and enlightened me about a couple of approaches I think are interesting (so thanks) and like i said i am going to try it to see if the fun factor is all that is being promised, but to me the style of graphics are a major turnoff and I suspect it is for many.
What people like is relative to their past experiences. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to play the game due to the art style. This is your judgment and there's no reason for anyone to try and change it. For me, the game is beautiful and fits a lot of what I want in an MMO; you and I are not the same.
Skyrim was a boring game for me. The graphics fit the game-play, though it didn't hold my interests (and as a User Interface designer, I hated the UI in the game). I have an amazing PC system that can display the graphics very well, though the game itself feels sluggish and boring. My past experiences cater my likes to skill based games. Mario has some great game-play mechanics and a perfect art style to accompany it. Mario had a wide age range for the demographic; not just kids. Can you imagine Mario with Skyrim graphics? It's important to match game-play mechanics and story with art style and I feel WildStar did that very well.
Illustrated != kids (not equal). A lot of anime look very similar in style (differing slightly to fit the story), though appeases many age groups. Borderlands has an illustrated look and it's fantastic. I think if WildStart looked like Skyrim, it would be horrible.
To be different in this industry is to not cater to realism. Even with the new UDK 4.0, the launch title is Fortnite: with highly stylized graphics. It's 'good' to not have ultra realistic graphics. I'd rather take game-play over graphics any day.
The good thing is, there's tons of developers who take the easy road and license a game engine that has built in realism. So, you're in luck. Lots of games to choose from. Sorry we won't see you in WildStar . . . that's just one more beta key to someone who is looking forward to this amazing looking game.
Another person who doesn't completely read he entire post before responding. For the third time, i said the graphics are a major turnoff, but I'll still be playing to form an accurate opinion, sorry to disappoint your post. Whoops, forgot the smiley face :-) The sensitivity here And the hype is starting to feel a lot like Aion.
Comments
^Pretty much this. Wildstar devs have stated their 40 man raids are for the top 1%. Those guilds whose members do not put in the extra time and effort to know the strats (if possble), class, and show up on time are being assholes to the other guild members and do not belong in that raiding scene.
Now I understand many seeing that as eliteist and jerky. Call it what you want, but those 40 man raids from vanilla WoW had the strongest community and made the game so much more enjoyable and satisfying. No, its not for everyone, and Wildstar knows that too. They are developing the normal dungeons and from what I remember 20 man raids targeted towards the less hardcore crowd.
To top it off, the story and heavy lore part of the game is the soloable content. They are keeping that out of the 40 mans so that everyone can experience the same story content (a big problem with vanilla WoW). We won't know for sure how this will pan out, but imo Wildstar is doing it right and focusing on bringing back guild communities that many of the "new" mmo's have negleted.
I agree with your last point about guild communities. To be honest, I saw no real value in any recent game (for a few years now) of being in a guild other than to feel like I am part of something. Regardless, like you said, we won't know for sure how this will pan out, as everything to me is speculation.
There Is Always Hope!
Honestly, I would love to see the Devs of this game make more and more difficult raids, but not have that difficulty be dependant on "just getting the next tier of gear".
At the top have something so hard that it is almost impossible to beat. That would give people something to really work on and brag about with a cool unique title that no one else would have if they are willing to put that type of time and discipline into it. Give those raiders a seriously hard dungeon!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
It's got housing, combat that is based on skill shots instead of auto/tab target, different class and build combinations, exclusive content/features available to certain playstyles, and it's focused mainly on PvE. What is not appealing about this game? If the best you can do is say that it's nothing new, then you're missing the point. I agree that this game isn't bringing anything new to the table, because it really just intends to implement certain features in the MMORPG setting in the way that they were originally implemented in SRPGs and other games. How well they implement these elements is really going to define their success.
The main appeal to me is the fact that you can choose your playstyle and get rewarded for it in addition to just killing enemies or farming instances for gear.
I personally am going to be an adventurer because I like to go looking for cool stuff in games like easter eggs and hidden content. The best is when you find a piece of lore somewhere where you didn't expect. Finding stuff is what I do in SRPGs anyways, now I can get equal rewards in MMORPGs too.
I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.
There Is Always Hope!
I almost exclusively play MMORPG games for their potential. Wildstar has a bunch of amazing features available at launch that offer... surprise surpise, typical MMORPG faire.
Potentially though, I'll be building my character to do these things in the future...
A) Escape the standard MMORPG combat where mobs are 2 second affairs that will NEVER offer me a lick of challenge or potential for challenge. I'll accomplish this by mastering the telegraph combat system and expect areas in the future for people that love individual or small group challenges. This would be a great way to continue to crave the storyline.
C) Stay at the head of the raid curve, see if Wildstar raids become as big a deal as WoW raids were back in Late Vanilla through early WotLK. All the while, carefully watch to see if I am able to play for progression and challenge and not the art of getting better gear so you may in turn attempt to get better gear...
D) Thank the maker for active dodging, even if I am bored to tears of GW2 at this point - it has raised the bar of what I want to do with my character in an MMORPG game that thankfully is filled by Wildstar.
E) It's a new release, and I want to Twitch TV it.
There are ZERO games that allow you to attempt to prepare and master this broad a spectrum of systems in current production or release. So saying the game is "nothing new" is true and false. Truth be told, there are a lot of systems directly derivative of currently released ones. However, saying that there is anything directly equivalent to Warplots, 40 Man raids this day and age or Skill Shot Telegraph based combat in an MMO is false.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
And yet you are asking for realistic art that looks exactly like the real world.
What is the point of your post? I didn't say I wanted a street view of google maps in Los Angeles where I live. I prefer realistic graphics. Look people, all of you are entitled to your preference of cartoony graphics and maybe you get excited by a monkey throwing bananas, but there is a reason why there is a target audience for sat morning cartoons and it isn't adults even if there are adults who still watch them.
I will say that some of the posts in this thread were helpful and enlightened me about a couple of approaches I think are interesting (so thanks) and like i said i am going to try it to see if the fun factor is all that is being promised, but to me the style of graphics are a major turnoff and I suspect it is for many.
There Is Always Hope!
What people like is relative to their past experiences. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to play the game due to the art style. This is your judgment and there's no reason for anyone to try and change it. For me, the game is beautiful and fits a lot of what I want in an MMO; you and I are not the same.
Skyrim was a boring game for me. The graphics fit the game-play, though it didn't hold my interests (and as a User Interface designer, I hated the UI in the game). I have an amazing PC system that can display the graphics very well, though the game itself feels sluggish and boring. My past experiences cater my likes to skill based games. Mario has some great game-play mechanics and a perfect art style to accompany it. Mario had a wide age range for the demographic; not just kids. Can you imagine Mario with Skyrim graphics? It's important to match game-play mechanics and story with art style and I feel WildStar did that very well.
Illustrated != kids (not equal). A lot of anime look very similar in style (differing slightly to fit the story), though appeases many age groups. Borderlands has an illustrated look and it's fantastic. I think if WildStart looked like Skyrim, it would be horrible.
To be different in this industry is to not cater to realism. Even with the new UDK 4.0, the launch title is Fortnite: with highly stylized graphics. It's 'good' to not have ultra realistic graphics. I'd rather take game-play over graphics any day.
The good thing is, there's tons of developers who take the easy road and license a game engine that has built in realism. So, you're in luck. Lots of games to choose from.
Sorry we won't see you in WildStar . . . that's just one more beta key to someone who is looking forward to this amazing looking game. 
Another person who doesn't completely read he entire post before responding. For the third time, i said the graphics are a major turnoff, but I'll still be playing to form an accurate opinion, sorry to disappoint your post. Whoops, forgot the smiley face :-) The sensitivity here And the hype is starting to feel a lot like Aion.
There Is Always Hope!