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[Column] General: Darkfalls Disgusting HOGGs
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
It was recently revealed that many members of the Darkfall: Unholy Wars clan, HOGG, were banned from the forums for 'griefing' other players. In today's Devil's Advocate, we take a look at the kerfuffle surrounding HOGG and offer a few thoughts about it. Do you have thoughts to share? If so, head to the comments to continue the discussion.
Today I will not be using that diplomatic cap as I normally do. I'm not going to rage in the same way that I did when SWTOR put out its early draft of its revenue model shift, but I also will not try to play nice the way I did when I wanted to write about Mr. Appleton's game-in-development. Instead, I'm simply going to point out why, contrary to what some people think on Darkfall: Unholy Wars' forums, the temporary ban of some (possibly all, but I can't confirm this) members of HOGG for griefing other players was not only the most logical course of action for Aventurine, but also the most telling reminder that Darkfall: Unholy Wars is not the Darkfall of old, and that is something worth fighting for.
Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: Darkfall’s Disgusting HOGGs.
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Comments
I'm just disappointed it's a temporary Ban, it should be permanent.
I don't have a problem with being killed in Darkfall at all, not even getting killed over and over. That's PvP and all, but this is isn't a part of the game at all.
The worst part to me is that this gets publicity and gives Darkfall a bad name. If you've played the game you'll see that the in-game community is a great bunch of people. Ask a question in chat and the guy that just killed you and took all your stuff will usually give you tips or advice.
I have to turn off the chat because too many people are asking for and getting advice all the time. And that's not in guild chat, but global.
DFUW forum community is awful, but in-game it is great.
Asdar
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Temporary bans are a joke and the HOGG members are probably laughing about it. The only signal I get from this a someone who might be interested in DFUW is too stay away from this game. If you really want to make a point against griefing perma ban is the only way to go. As DFUW is a p2p game with subscription this will hurt the griefers.
Anyway, I am glad there are games like DFUW, keeps those people out of other games.
Consume. Be silent. Die.
Perma ban without a warning? That's too harsh, nobody does that unless the offense is major, which in this case it is not.
Yeah there's always gonna be assholes and frustrates in MMOs trying to grief other people for their sick fun but they are a vast minority and as far as harvesting LOS griefing, well that's easily avoidable...just go harvest somewhere else. If he follows you, lure him outside the safe zone and have buddies ambush him or something. If you don't have buddies, just log out for 5 minutes, I garantee he won't be waiting for you when you come back.
Trolling people then posting copious videos on it on YouTube, making the community look like absolute shit and turning people away from the game is something that I would classify as a major offense to any developer/publisher. Permaban is the only way to go.
World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.
I dont think perma ban is a terrible thing here. These griefers know they are doing something wrong. They set out to purposely disturb and harass other players. They dont need "warnings" because they already know they are doing something wrong.
I love PVP. But this kind of griefing isnt PVP, they arent even leaving the safe zones. There should be no second chances when it comes to harassment. Let these guys get thier jollies somewhere else, eventually they will turn on each other, just like gankers do.
Ok seen like that I guess it could be considered a major offense. I was being a little short sighted I guess. Besides, we all know what the first thing these idiots are gonna do when they eventually log in again....grief more.
I'm just generally into giving people a second chance. Maybe that's not the way to go here, I dunno.
Ok I just watched the video. I don't think it's harming the game at all. It only highlights the stupidity of the narrator.
"The fear of loss is 10 times stronger than the fear of winning" WTF does that even mean? What a moron...
Yeah a perma ban is totally justified here. Besides the guy repeats like 50 times how terrible the game is so he won't be missing it.
i assume AV will make their second offense permanent.
they actually look to be trying this time to foster a good community.
and i again offer an open invite to the players of HOGG to play eve, so we can take their stuff, make them have to buy plex to have the funds to keep playing, then blow up the stuff they spent plex on
it might or might not teach them a lesson but either way it will be fun to sic the eve anti-grief squads on these guys
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It point to the game being well ran.
I would be much more suspicious of a mm that didn't wild the banhamner and kept such things secret.
This is why pvp sandbox is and will always be niche -
Dick hats and the completely sociopathic borderline psychotic treatment of their fellow players.
MMO success = community.
Grief/gank/harrass your community - community leaves.
Everyone just wants to play the game their way.
But if playing your way is at the expense of other's freedom to play their way, you're a douche cannon.
It's online bullying. No other way to define it.
And in the virtual world, to get away from it, all you have to do is log off.
5 minutes of individual grief while they wasted way more time finding ways to grief. Also they spent money in something they dislike just for the mention 5 minutes of grief.
On a side note, the 5 minutes are for the individual players, for them it's a huge waste of time since it's for a lot of characters. So they are spending time and money on something they dislike while they could be doing anything more productive and used the money in something they actually like. They could be shitting on top of their granny's head and still be more productive since they get to see the face of disgust on the person, not just assuming in their minds. Maybe that guy was just bore and waiting for friends and he was just playing along while they show up. You can't actually tell since you can't actually see the person behind the model.
I think the only ones being gimps and griefed by HOGG is HOGG itself.
What makes you think that they aren't already playing EVE? Looking at it, it seems to be typical Goonie behavior, which we've all come to expect.
When you use game rules in a way they were not intended to be used to interfere with other players who cannot retaliate and then post vidoes of what you are doing, it should be a very easy decision, perma ban them!
You have to wonder if the parents of these social misfits realize their kids have major personality issues.
Oh and while I detest goon players in Eve, even they would not stoop to this.
What's really bad, is that so much of the darkfall community is accepting of this kind of behavior. It's literally a game that caters to some of the worst kinds of people on the internet (not talking illegal stuff here).
As long as DFUW is ok with targeting that particular audience, then I guess it works for them. I just can't see that being the best business decision to make.
You make me like charity
The community makes the game is so true. At this point in my mmo decision making process, I don't even read about the game. I read the forums and see what the community is like. Ok I do read about the game. As one of the poster said that the forum community is generally worse than the ingame community but still, it gives a good idea who you will be playing with. If you read the forum thread linked in the article, my goodness. I am surprised at how many people are willing to pay for a game where the sole purpose is to make life miserable for other people.
I totally get PVP. It is an adrenaline rush that PvE will almost never give. But griefing? I just don't get it? And to pay 40 bucks to buy a game and then pay the sub to grief... Truly mystifying.
I can't speak for anybody else, but I thought about trying DFUW, but I don't need to play with these types of idiots. This guy's action accomplished one thing, it turned me away from the game and maybe that is what he wanted to do so kudos to him. Well this guy's actions and like 60% of the posters who supported his behavior.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Their TOS pretty clearly states that griefing is not allowed. However, it is one thing to put in a generic ToS and another to actively enforce. According to the some the reason DF1 died is because it purged anyone but hardcore pvp players through natural evolution of the game. Thus now in DFUW you got saef zones and actual rules and to be fair they did ban them, but just reading the forum thread; AV has a long way to go if they actually want to prevent exactly what happened in DF1 and not let it happen in DFUW.
I don't think a true sandbox PVP is a sustainable business model. Not even for small gaming companies trying to corner a niche market. Hell no to AAA MMOs.
well that is just flat out bad game design right there and adventurine should be publicly flogged for that horrible game design.
now on to the actual act of what he was doing. This video is the best reason I can think of to stay away from pvp games. there are way more assholes in pvp games than in any other type of game. The person that made this video needs to be punched in the face repeatedly until he understand being a asshole on the internet is stupid. if you truly want to be a asshole go be one in real life where people can choose to punch you in the face if they want. on the internet it is just being a coward.
also there should be no safe zones in a pvp game. someone decides to be a ass, kill him and take his stuff. cuts down on asses in the game while still keeping with the flavor of a dangerous world and makes pvp more fun.
overall though bad game design plus assholes = dont play the game if you want to have fun. could care less about the ban because these idiots will just buy a new copy and do it again or pay 15 bucks whatever it is and keep doing it under another account.
As someone else said..you have to leave the starter area eventually. The idea behind Darkfall is that the player base will sort these things out. They're bad guys....join a guild and grief them back .
In full disclosure, I am the same name on the DFO forums in offtopic, I have not read the thread, nor watched the video, nor do I need to. Darkfall fans are hardcore just like Eve, if you arent with me, you're an NPC and you cant grief NPC's, so...anything goes. <stress the period
If someone griefs you, grief them back and be careful, because feuds, rivalries, and all kinds of conflict and PVP may just occur. It's not for the faint of heart, nor is it expected that they comprehend this.