Originally posted by Sulaa This mega-server thing and phasing is really a turn off.
I agree it is for me as well. One thing people keep saying is the need to keep in line with a true TES game, but those are all single player RPGs so by their very nature they will differ greatly from an MMO. You need to change certain things in order to make it an MMO.
The single server thing and phasing technology are too weird and contrived. It totally takes away from the immersion and the feeling of a big open game world that many MMO's have. The best solution would have been to just have separate PVE and PvP servers with traditional WoW style rules. People that are adamant about having no PvP and feeling more like the single player TES games can play on a PvE server and those of us that enjoy PVP can have the PvP servers.
Right now it feels like they are trying to make everyone happy and are just screwing everyone over. The PVPers will hate the leveling process and the phased, closed off world until they hit max. The PVE players will love leveling but once they hit max will feel like they are limited in the amount of pure PvE endgame content they can do. How many PvPers will bother sticking around long enough to level to max? How many PVEers will stay and play the endgame?
If there's one thing game companies should have learned by now it's that PVE and PVP players have two very different gameplay preferences and two very strong opinions. You need to just give in to that and separate servers to make everyone happy.
Ya I can see your point. SPlitting dev time between PvE and PvP no one really gets all they want or the devs focus. I get why they do it. PvP gives the devs time to make more PvE content as PvP is something players dont mid recycling as its different every time. You never know what players are gona do.
I don't see any difference between pvp and pve other then pvp flag, if you separate pvp from pve with different servers.
If you have different servers pvp or pve, you'd have same gear, same map, same alience, same crafting.
It is harder to keep both pvp and pve on the same server and differ pvp gear from pve gear and setings, because then you'd have to make two sets of everything.
He was talking about a game where the devs picked 1 type of game. So ESO would only have PvE no PvP at all. If they did they could make any changes to the PvE game and it would not impact the PvP side at all as there would be none. Some MMOs do this but myself I like a MMO to have both, even if it means balance is not always clear for one side or the other. I personally love the design ESO is going with,
Ya I can see your point. SPlitting dev time between PvE and PvP no one really gets all they want or the devs focus. I get why they do it. PvP gives the devs time to make more PvE content as PvP is something players dont mid recycling as its different every time. You never know what players are gona do.
I don't see any difference between pvp and pve other then pvp flag, if you separate pvp from pve with different servers.
If you have different servers pvp or pve, you'd have same gear, same map, same alience, same crafting.
It is harder to keep both pvp and pve on the same server and differ pvp gear from pve gear and setings, because then you'd have to make two sets of everything.
sadly even when they are on diffrent server they affect each other, because content needs to be made for both, and more importantly balenceing needs to be done for both, often you will see devs try to juggle keeping the flavor of the month in PvP balenced with out ruining PvE which is often what happens, and why non PVPer dilske PvP so much we get the bum end of the stick to keep PvP balenced alot.
also if you do it the other way and have PvE and PvP use two diffrent sets of number so that you dont have to worry about PvP and PvE balenceing messing with each other you basicly have two entirely diffrent sets of numbers and sometime codeing to maintain, not to mention all the wierd bugs you get due to thiis.
plus you got to find a way to keep griefing down on top of all this.
all these things eat dev time, and dev time is our bug fixing and new content release time. this is why game that try to both often have to deide which oe they want to sacerfice, otherwise no real foward mothing is made with much speed.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Ya I can see your point. SPlitting dev time between PvE and PvP no one really gets all they want or the devs focus. I get why they do it. PvP gives the devs time to make more PvE content as PvP is something players dont mid recycling as its different every time. You never know what players are gona do.
I don't see any difference between pvp and pve other then pvp flag, if you separate pvp from pve with different servers.
If you have different servers pvp or pve, you'd have same gear, same map, same alience, same crafting.
It is harder to keep both pvp and pve on the same server and differ pvp gear from pve gear and setings, because then you'd have to make two sets of everything.
sadly even when they are on diffrent server they affect each other, because content needs to be made for both, and more importantly balenceing needs to be done for both, often you will see devs try to juggle keeping the flavor of the month in PvP balenced with out ruining PvE which is often what happens, and why non PVPer dilske PvP so much we get the bum end of the stick to keep PvP balenced alot.
also if you do it the other way and have PvE and PvP use two diffrent sets of number so that you dont have to worry about PvP and PvE balenceing messing with each other you basicly have two entirely diffrent sets of numbers and sometime codeing to maintain, not to mention all the wierd bugs you get due to thiis.
plus you got to find a way to keep griefing down on top of all this.
all these things eat dev time, and dev time is our bug fixing and new content release time. this is why game that try to both often have to deide which oe they want to sacerfice, otherwise no real foward mothing is made with much speed.
Is there even any pure PvE games coming out? All the new MMOs I have been following have PvP in them. A pure PvE game is becoming a rare thing. Maybe there is a market for that with so meny games trying to do both.
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I didn't find any chairs that I could sit in during the PAX demo.
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo I couldn't. Or at least I didn't find "the right" chairs.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I didn't find any chairs that I could sit in during the PAX demo.
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo I couldn't. Or at least I didn't find "the right" chairs.
Well, that's the last nail in the coffin for me. Thanks for the info though.
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I didn't find any chairs that I could sit in during the PAX demo.
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo I couldn't. Or at least I didn't find "the right" chairs.
Well, that's the last nail in the coffin for me. Thanks for the info though.
perhaps I should point out:
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo
The crime system wasn't in either but it's going in. I think you might want to wait until there is a more finished product before you make a final judgment.
edit: Probably should point out that players are always their own worst enemies. Developers don't want "leaked info" because they want to be able to add or subract parts of these games. But "players" want all these games to be finished the moment anyone can get in.
I suppose developers should learn by now but there it is. Not saying this is going to be a great game but I think players need to at least wait until "open beta" which should give you a great idea as to what is going to be set in stone come launch.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Honestly, I could go for a MMORPG that has no PVP in it whatsoever. I think PVP became a requirement because companies got lazy and didn't know how to fill the end game content gap. Players burn through content and get bored, so what to do? Why add pvp of course and its recycled end game content while devs push another expansion. I really hope more companies start to go down the AA end game concept.
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
I hear you, I am just more of a virtual world kinda of fella I guess. I was hoping this game would appeal to me, because I haven't had an mmo to call home in years and I love TES. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives unfortunatly. Hopefully EQnext will do it for me, if not I think I am done with MMOs (wasted too much damn money in the last couple years on junk).
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
I hear you, I am just more of a virtual world kinda of fella I guess. I was hoping this game would appeal to me, because I haven't had an mmo to call home in years and I love TES. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives unfortunatly. Hopefully EQnext will do it for me, if not I think I am done with MMOs (wasted too much damn money in the last couple years on junk).
yeah i'm more of a "world" person and it seems that ESO is more of a themepark Well, we know it is.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I didn't find any chairs that I could sit in during the PAX demo.
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo I couldn't. Or at least I didn't find "the right" chairs.
Well, that's the last nail in the coffin for me. Thanks for the info though.
perhaps I should point out:
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo
The crime system wasn't in either but it's going in. I think you might want to wait until there is a more finished product before you make a final judgment.
edit: Probably should point out that players are always their own worse enemies. Developers don't want "leaked info" because they want to be able to add or subract parts of these games. But "players" want all these games to be finished the moment anyone can get in.
I suppose developers should learn by now but there it is. Not saying this is going to be a great game but I think players need to at least wait until "open beta" which should give you a great idea as to what is going to be set in stone come launch.
I understand, it wasn't in the demo, but I would think something like that would have been coded into the base game already. Just to clarify, I really don't care about the actual act of sitting, it's more of a benchmark to me as to the immersive-ness (a real word?) of the game. If they didn't bother to code in sitting, then they probably didn't code in other similar things that make the game world immersive to me. It's just disapointing that's all.
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
I hear you, I am just more of a virtual world kinda of fella I guess. I was hoping this game would appeal to me, because I haven't had an mmo to call home in years and I love TES. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives unfortunatly. Hopefully EQnext will do it for me, if not I think I am done with MMOs (wasted too much damn money in the last couple years on junk).
At this point no one knows if they have that planed for launch or if its in the game now. Heck there is more questions about the game now then answers =-)
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
I hear you, I am just more of a virtual world kinda of fella I guess. I was hoping this game would appeal to me, because I haven't had an mmo to call home in years and I love TES. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives unfortunatly. Hopefully EQnext will do it for me, if not I think I am done with MMOs (wasted too much damn money in the last couple years on junk).
At this point no one knows if they have that planed for launch or if its in the game now. Heck there is more questions about the game now then answers =-)
Your right, I probably shouldn't rule it out yet, but it isn't looking good (for me).
I understand, it wasn't in the demo, but I would think something like that would have been coded into the base game already. Just to clarify, I really don't care about the actual act of sitting, it's more of a benchmark to me as to the immersive-ness (a real word?) of the game. If they didn't bother to code in sitting, then they probably didn't code in other similar things that make the game world immersive to me. It's just disapointing that's all.
well, I would still hold out. I think you are "wanting" something in game and just declaring that it should be there when you want it there.
"if" it is in the game then it probalby is already coded. But that doesn't mean it's implemented.
I'm not a developer but it seems that an engine needs to take into account these things. Just like the crime system.
But crime sytem wasn't in the game.
It might be one of those things that rely upon an animation and the animators are busy doing other stuff.
This is why "closed" beta cant' quite be judged. Heck, in LOTRO closed beta, in Bree, all the trainers, sellers were actually outside in the town. But the developers moved them inside because they wanted to alleviate the issues players were having when they were in town.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
I hear you, I am just more of a virtual world kinda of fella I guess. I was hoping this game would appeal to me, because I haven't had an mmo to call home in years and I love TES. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives unfortunatly. Hopefully EQnext will do it for me, if not I think I am done with MMOs (wasted too much damn money in the last couple years on junk).
yeah i'm more of a "world" person and it seems that ESO is more of a themepark Well, we know it is.
this always confuses me. the elder scroll series has always been a theme park, open world yes but theme park non the less, its has a severl set story lines to follow, you may be able to get to chose which one you do but in the end its still a theme park or as i like to call it
a theme park where you get to pick which ride you take first.
the ability to just go around and kill thing at random dosount change that just means its open world we have seen that since ever crack heck even before that. heck you can do that in WoW if you want.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Comments
I agree it is for me as well. One thing people keep saying is the need to keep in line with a true TES game, but those are all single player RPGs so by their very nature they will differ greatly from an MMO. You need to change certain things in order to make it an MMO.
The single server thing and phasing technology are too weird and contrived. It totally takes away from the immersion and the feeling of a big open game world that many MMO's have. The best solution would have been to just have separate PVE and PvP servers with traditional WoW style rules. People that are adamant about having no PvP and feeling more like the single player TES games can play on a PvE server and those of us that enjoy PVP can have the PvP servers.
Right now it feels like they are trying to make everyone happy and are just screwing everyone over. The PVPers will hate the leveling process and the phased, closed off world until they hit max. The PVE players will love leveling but once they hit max will feel like they are limited in the amount of pure PvE endgame content they can do. How many PvPers will bother sticking around long enough to level to max? How many PVEers will stay and play the endgame?
If there's one thing game companies should have learned by now it's that PVE and PVP players have two very different gameplay preferences and two very strong opinions. You need to just give in to that and separate servers to make everyone happy.
He was talking about a game where the devs picked 1 type of game. So ESO would only have PvE no PvP at all. If they did they could make any changes to the PvE game and it would not impact the PvP side at all as there would be none. Some MMOs do this but myself I like a MMO to have both, even if it means balance is not always clear for one side or the other. I personally love the design ESO is going with,
ESO will miss you =-) Or can you make an acception this once? Would like to run a dungeon with ya or kick your butt in AvA =-)
sadly even when they are on diffrent server they affect each other, because content needs to be made for both, and more importantly balenceing needs to be done for both, often you will see devs try to juggle keeping the flavor of the month in PvP balenced with out ruining PvE which is often what happens, and why non PVPer dilske PvP so much we get the bum end of the stick to keep PvP balenced alot.
also if you do it the other way and have PvE and PvP use two diffrent sets of number so that you dont have to worry about PvP and PvE balenceing messing with each other you basicly have two entirely diffrent sets of numbers and sometime codeing to maintain, not to mention all the wierd bugs you get due to thiis.
plus you got to find a way to keep griefing down on top of all this.
all these things eat dev time, and dev time is our bug fixing and new content release time. this is why game that try to both often have to deide which oe they want to sacerfice, otherwise no real foward mothing is made with much speed.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Since wow there's been a constant stream of 90% pve mmos with crappy tacked on instanced pvp.
Until very recently there was only one game for pvp - eve.
No PvP or PvE servers in ESO.... just the mega server.
Is there even any pure PvE games coming out? All the new MMOs I have been following have PvP in them. A pure PvE game is becoming a rare thing. Maybe there is a market for that with so meny games trying to do both.
I wouldn't play such a game, incredibly bored of that particular set up.
Even the games that were pure PvE that were doing well have added PvP. Like Rift.
All I want to know, is can we sit in chairs? Sounds silly yes, but it tells me the level of detail that the devs are willing to provide. 1st "cantina" I walked in early on in SWTOR, I noticed I couldn't sit, and you know the rest.
If something as mundane as sitting is not in the game, I doubt I will even try it (not that anyone cares!)
I didn't find any chairs that I could sit in during the PAX demo.
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo I couldn't. Or at least I didn't find "the right" chairs.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, that's the last nail in the coffin for me. Thanks for the info though.
I miss games going that extra yard as well. Get in the game and emotes are not polished. You cant dance or sit on a char. But for most like me. I will stick around if the game is polished in every other area and wait for that stuff to come later. Would be nice to see think Devs conside fluff to be part of the must do now list. Even things like player housing is always something of an after thought.
perhaps I should point out:
Doesn't mean it won't go in but as of that demo
The crime system wasn't in either but it's going in. I think you might want to wait until there is a more finished product before you make a final judgment.
edit: Probably should point out that players are always their own worst enemies. Developers don't want "leaked info" because they want to be able to add or subract parts of these games. But "players" want all these games to be finished the moment anyone can get in.
I suppose developers should learn by now but there it is. Not saying this is going to be a great game but I think players need to at least wait until "open beta" which should give you a great idea as to what is going to be set in stone come launch.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I hear you, I am just more of a virtual world kinda of fella I guess. I was hoping this game would appeal to me, because I haven't had an mmo to call home in years and I love TES. For me, the negatives outweigh the positives unfortunatly. Hopefully EQnext will do it for me, if not I think I am done with MMOs (wasted too much damn money in the last couple years on junk).
yeah i'm more of a "world" person and it seems that ESO is more of a themepark Well, we know it is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I understand, it wasn't in the demo, but I would think something like that would have been coded into the base game already. Just to clarify, I really don't care about the actual act of sitting, it's more of a benchmark to me as to the immersive-ness (a real word?) of the game. If they didn't bother to code in sitting, then they probably didn't code in other similar things that make the game world immersive to me. It's just disapointing that's all.
At this point no one knows if they have that planed for launch or if its in the game now. Heck there is more questions about the game now then answers =-)
Your right, I probably shouldn't rule it out yet, but it isn't looking good (for me).
well, I would still hold out. I think you are "wanting" something in game and just declaring that it should be there when you want it there.
"if" it is in the game then it probalby is already coded. But that doesn't mean it's implemented.
I'm not a developer but it seems that an engine needs to take into account these things. Just like the crime system.
But crime sytem wasn't in the game.
It might be one of those things that rely upon an animation and the animators are busy doing other stuff.
This is why "closed" beta cant' quite be judged. Heck, in LOTRO closed beta, in Bree, all the trainers, sellers were actually outside in the town. But the developers moved them inside because they wanted to alleviate the issues players were having when they were in town.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
this always confuses me. the elder scroll series has always been a theme park, open world yes but theme park non the less, its has a severl set story lines to follow, you may be able to get to chose which one you do but in the end its still a theme park or as i like to call it
a theme park where you get to pick which ride you take first.
the ability to just go around and kill thing at random dosount change that just means its open world we have seen that since ever crack heck even before that. heck you can do that in WoW if you want.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.