-there is no concept of fair fight, if you end in one you did something wrong . usually the bigger blob(which can have hundreds of ships/players) wins
What is this "fair fight" concept? It sounds like your tactics/ logistics aren't optimised for victory.
Do you have a lot of fun when you jump with 20 supercaps on a roam of 10 battlecruisers ?
More fun than you have losing from the tone of your OP.
Dude i have a lot of fun in World of Tanks. And i can really pvp 2 hours every day instead of preparing to pvp.
Your hot drop last like 5 minutes IF you are lucky.
its good that your enjoying world of tanks, but, even though Eve may not have the constant 'action' there is far more to Eve than just the PVP, which is why games like world of tanks just don't cut it for me. Even Planetside 2 has more engaging gameplay imo.
I played planetside2 too from time to time, quite fun but you need to search a bit for a good fight.
I liked eve only thing i hated was stupid farming. I played eve for like 5 years while there wasn;t really an alternative mmo for pvp.
They can take the concept of gold tank from World of tanks. They are not too great but they can do an OK job if handled properly. Throw on top of them an insurance that give you the ship back with some passable fit and tadaaa everybody is happy.
People will not be afraid to undock and have pvp, better ships will be still made for people that want an edge. More pvp will mean more ships built, more industry more mining.
Nobody winns if everybody stays docked and spin the ship and don;t engage.
Then they break their game model. Seeing how long this game has worked with the model they created I would say let the pros do what they are doing.
The only reason they growth is beacuse people start making alts. Some made them for capitals, some because they could play with plex but at end of the day the number of players did not really increased it is just the number of accounts.
Their current model works because there is really no competition for EVE. If/when will be one they will have to re-evaluate.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I've found in my experiences that the draw of EVE, the magical "what if" possibilities the game represents are 99% of the time just fantasies and the OP is right far, far more often than not.
On paper EVE is the best MMORPG ever created and when you first start out you really see all that potential and wonder.
After a few months you realize just how pointless and arbitary everything in the game is (just like any MMO) and without that magic, the day-to-day hour-to-hour game just isn't fun enough to keep going.
The trailers and lore and fan stories and forum hype all tells you to expect the kind of awesome sci-fi you see in movies and read in books.
And 1% of the time you actually get those amazing things in game - and it IS true that no other MMO really gives you that.
That does make EVE special and an amazing experience - sometimes.
But it's the other 99% of the time where the gameplay simply sucks, is outdated, and completely stale.
CCP is also far too chicken-shit to shake up the balance too much and actually change the game for the better with anything other than a snails pace of tiny improvements and tweaked features.
And the fans are still so taken by it all they weep with joy when 3-4 new ships are added every 18 months.
I think that having that 1% is the hot thing about such a game. It's better than the constant dings and rewards of your average game that players expect constant rewards. If you have constant rewards how long will it take for the effect wear off and thus the appreciation of what you get is gone?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I've found in my experiences that the draw of EVE, the magical "what if" possibilities the game represents are 99% of the time just fantasies and the OP is right far, far more often than not.
On paper EVE is the best MMORPG ever created and when you first start out you really see all that potential and wonder.
After a few months you realize just how pointless and arbitary everything in the game is (just like any MMO) and without that magic, the day-to-day hour-to-hour game just isn't fun enough to keep going.
The trailers and lore and fan stories and forum hype all tells you to expect the kind of awesome sci-fi you see in movies and read in books.
And 1% of the time you actually get those amazing things in game - and it IS true that no other MMO really gives you that.
That does make EVE special and an amazing experience - sometimes.
But it's the other 99% of the time where the gameplay simply sucks, is outdated, and completely stale.
CCP is also far too chicken-shit to shake up the balance too much and actually change the game for the better with anything other than a snails pace of tiny improvements and tweaked features.
And the fans are still so taken by it all they weep with joy when 3-4 new ships are added every 18 months.
I think that having that 1% is the hot thing about such a game. It's better than the constant dings and rewards of your average game that players expect constant rewards. If you have constant rewards how long will it take for the effect wear off and thus the appreciation of what you get is gone?
I agree for the most part, but 1% is just as bad as 99% imo.
As in - having too few rewards paced over too long a period is JUST as bad as too many rewards over too short a period.
The "modern" themepark is guilty of the later, while more "classic" games like EVE are guilty of the former.
I liked eve only thing i hated was stupid farming. I played eve for like 5 years while there wasn;t really an alternative mmo for pvp.
They can take the concept of gold tank from World of tanks. They are not too great but they can do an OK job if handled properly. Throw on top of them an insurance that give you the ship back with some passable fit and tadaaa everybody is happy.
People will not be afraid to undock and have pvp, better ships will be still made for people that want an edge. More pvp will mean more ships built, more industry more mining.
Nobody winns if everybody stays docked and spin the ship and don;t engage.
Then they break their game model. Seeing how long this game has worked with the model they created I would say let the pros do what they are doing.
The only reason they growth is beacuse people start making alts. Some made them for capitals, some because they could play with plex but at end of the day the number of players did not really increased it is just the number of accounts.
Their current model works because there is really no competition for EVE. If/when will be one they will have to re-evaluate.
You are just making stuff up.
Yeah sure, nobody made alts in order to cyno their capitals and none of the rich players use plex to pay for their subscription.
I've found in my experiences that the draw of EVE, the magical "what if" possibilities the game represents are 99% of the time just fantasies and the OP is right far, far more often than not.
On paper EVE is the best MMORPG ever created and when you first start out you really see all that potential and wonder.
After a few months you realize just how pointless and arbitary everything in the game is (just like any MMO) and without that magic, the day-to-day hour-to-hour game just isn't fun enough to keep going.
The trailers and lore and fan stories and forum hype all tells you to expect the kind of awesome sci-fi you see in movies and read in books.
And 1% of the time you actually get those amazing things in game - and it IS true that no other MMO really gives you that.
That does make EVE special and an amazing experience - sometimes.
But it's the other 99% of the time where the gameplay simply sucks, is outdated, and completely stale.
CCP is also far too chicken-shit to shake up the balance too much and actually change the game for the better with anything other than a snails pace of tiny improvements and tweaked features.
And the fans are still so taken by it all they weep with joy when 3-4 new ships are added every 18 months.
I think that having that 1% is the hot thing about such a game. It's better than the constant dings and rewards of your average game that players expect constant rewards. If you have constant rewards how long will it take for the effect wear off and thus the appreciation of what you get is gone?
I agree for the most part, but 1% is just as bad as 99% imo.
As in - having too few rewards paced over too long a period is JUST as bad as too many rewards over too short a period.
The "modern" themepark is guilty of the later, while more "classic" games like EVE are guilty of the former.
Is not even 1%.
farm 5 -10 hours for a good ship ship. roam 3 hours for a fight . fight 2-3 minutes IF you are lucky.
I liked eve only thing i hated was stupid farming. I played eve for like 5 years while there wasn;t really an alternative mmo for pvp.
They can take the concept of gold tank from World of tanks. They are not too great but they can do an OK job if handled properly. Throw on top of them an insurance that give you the ship back with some passable fit and tadaaa everybody is happy.
People will not be afraid to undock and have pvp, better ships will be still made for people that want an edge. More pvp will mean more ships built, more industry more mining.
Nobody winns if everybody stays docked and spin the ship and don;t engage.
Then they break their game model. Seeing how long this game has worked with the model they created I would say let the pros do what they are doing.
The only reason they growth is beacuse people start making alts. Some made them for capitals, some because they could play with plex but at end of the day the number of players did not really increased it is just the number of accounts.
Their current model works because there is really no competition for EVE. If/when will be one they will have to re-evaluate.
You are just making stuff up.
Yeah sure, nobody made alts in order to cyno their capitals and none of the rich players use plex to pay for their subscription.
Okay, now you are trolling. First you say 99% have 2 accounts and when called on your BS you flip to the other end and say I am saying nobody does it. There is a wide range there.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Just like almost every other implementation of PvP -
Crowd control.
Makes strategic retreat and/or harrowing escape nearly impossible - unless you are specifically built/fitted for evasion - in which case you suck at fighting so....
You either run or you fight (and probably die) so what's the point?
That is one thing themepark MMOs tend to do so, so much better in PvP is give ALL players tools for both offense and defense, escape and counter and attack.
Well, that might be the second worst part of EVE PvP.
The first really being Bottlenecks due to the limitation of the entire Gate system.
Can't really find a awesome smuggling route and sneak through a system or evade pursuit by slipping through a asteroid belt or gravity field or 99% of the cool shit you see in Star Wars / Star Trek / Babylon 5 / Battlestar Galactica etc. etc.
It's "have a cloaking device" or "MWD out of bubble" or "reduce align/warp time to below target lock time" etc. and other completely immersion breaking "gamey" garbage because of the Gate system and warp bubbles which all ties back to Crowd Control and Prop/Warp jamming.
Don't want your prey to run?
Attack their home - make them stay and fight to defend their holdings or lose them.
Or use more "common" Sci-Fi like specifically targetting weapons or navigation systems or warp drives etc.
I liked eve only thing i hated was stupid farming. I played eve for like 5 years while there wasn;t really an alternative mmo for pvp.
They can take the concept of gold tank from World of tanks. They are not too great but they can do an OK job if handled properly. Throw on top of them an insurance that give you the ship back with some passable fit and tadaaa everybody is happy.
People will not be afraid to undock and have pvp, better ships will be still made for people that want an edge. More pvp will mean more ships built, more industry more mining.
Nobody winns if everybody stays docked and spin the ship and don;t engage.
Then they break their game model. Seeing how long this game has worked with the model they created I would say let the pros do what they are doing.
The only reason they growth is beacuse people start making alts. Some made them for capitals, some because they could play with plex but at end of the day the number of players did not really increased it is just the number of accounts.
Their current model works because there is really no competition for EVE. If/when will be one they will have to re-evaluate.
You are just making stuff up.
Yeah sure, nobody made alts in order to cyno their capitals and none of the rich players use plex to pay for their subscription.
Okay, now you are trolling. First you say 99% have 2 accounts and when called on your BS you flip to the other end and say I am saying nobody does it. There is a wide range there.
99% have AT LEAST 2 accounts. Honestly i don;t recall anyone who didn't had alts at least after the capitals spreaded.
I don't know what you are doing in eve, but the norm is have ALTs for cynos,scouts,haul,industry,salvage. I supose you quit NPC corp right ?
Evem if you run missions in empire you should scout gate for suicide ganks if you have any fitt worth speaking of
Dude i have a lot of fun in World of Tanks. And i can really pvp 2 hours every day instead of preparing to pvp.
Your hot drop last like 5 minutes IF you are lucky.
its good that your enjoying world of tanks, but, even though Eve may not have the constant 'action' there is far more to Eve than just the PVP, which is why games like world of tanks just don't cut it for me. Even Planetside 2 has more engaging gameplay imo.
I'd really enjoy EVE again if we could get decent high-sec content - get "on-demand" action with the same risk/reward cause-effect as PvP - but in PvE.
Missioning is awful - mining is boring - trade is useless in high-sec - at least exploration is getting a big bump in Odyssey.
Sansha is just as bad as PvE Raid grinding in Themepark games. Have to have the right build, right fleet comp to get invited and it's just a grind for isk with no real purpose.
Have you tried Red vs Blue? It was set up by and for people who want exactly that.
Dude i have a lot of fun in World of Tanks. And i can really pvp 2 hours every day instead of preparing to pvp.
Your hot drop last like 5 minutes IF you are lucky.
its good that your enjoying world of tanks, but, even though Eve may not have the constant 'action' there is far more to Eve than just the PVP, which is why games like world of tanks just don't cut it for me. Even Planetside 2 has more engaging gameplay imo.
I'd really enjoy EVE again if we could get decent high-sec content - get "on-demand" action with the same risk/reward cause-effect as PvP - but in PvE.
Missioning is awful - mining is boring - trade is useless in high-sec - at least exploration is getting a big bump in Odyssey.
Sansha is just as bad as PvE Raid grinding in Themepark games. Have to have the right build, right fleet comp to get invited and it's just a grind for isk with no real purpose.
Have you tried Red vs Blue? It was set up by and for people who want exactly that.
You must be really proud of how of how great of warrior you are ..... in a computer game.
I just want some instant pvp in the limited ammount of time i have after work, family etc.
Originally posted by Malcanis Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by Phry Originally posted by apanz3r
Dude i have a lot of fun in World of Tanks. And i can really pvp 2 hours every day instead of preparing to pvp.Your hot drop last like 5 minutes IF you are lucky.
its good that your enjoying world of tanks, but, even though Eve may not have the constant 'action' there is far more to Eve than just the PVP, which is why games like world of tanks just don't cut it for me. Even Planetside 2 has more engaging gameplay imo.
I'd really enjoy EVE again if we could get decent high-sec content - get "on-demand" action with the same risk/reward cause-effect as PvP - but in PvE.
Missioning is awful - mining is boring - trade is useless in high-sec - at least exploration is getting a big bump in Odyssey.
Sansha is just as bad as PvE Raid grinding in Themepark games. Have to have the right build, right fleet comp to get invited and it's just a grind for isk with no real purpose.
Have you tried Red vs Blue? It was set up by and for people who want exactly that.
You must be really proud of how of how great of warrior you are ..... in a computer game.
I just want some instant pvp in the limited ammount of time i have after work, family etc.
Dude i have a lot of fun in World of Tanks. And i can really pvp 2 hours every day instead of preparing to pvp.
Your hot drop last like 5 minutes IF you are lucky.
its good that your enjoying world of tanks, but, even though Eve may not have the constant 'action' there is far more to Eve than just the PVP, which is why games like world of tanks just don't cut it for me. Even Planetside 2 has more engaging gameplay imo.
I'd really enjoy EVE again if we could get decent high-sec content - get "on-demand" action with the same risk/reward cause-effect as PvP - but in PvE.
Missioning is awful - mining is boring - trade is useless in high-sec - at least exploration is getting a big bump in Odyssey.
Sansha is just as bad as PvE Raid grinding in Themepark games. Have to have the right build, right fleet comp to get invited and it's just a grind for isk with no real purpose.
Have you tried Red vs Blue? It was set up by and for people who want exactly that.
You must be really proud of how of how great of warrior you are ..... in a computer game.
I just want some instant pvp in the limited ammount of time i have after work, family etc.
Move along, we dont want your kind here.
You can move along, this is not your tread you don;t like don;t read it. Just because you are brainswashed in eve and can tell there to your pets whatever you want it does not mean you can throw that anywhere.
Hahhaha, thank you for your faith in me I just tried my best to address everybodys concerns/answers.
But bottom line is that pretty much all I said is true.
Is a matter of taste if you should work 10 hours to prepare to have some pvp (which lasts minutes) or if you should get in pvp in 30 sec like in World of Tanks and many other games and i can respect that.
I want to add one more thing: the gamemaster in eve are the bigest as..oles ever existed in MMO business. Theyr motto is custommer is never right.
- One example : roam of 6 people we all die because desinc and lag. One dude the had some connections and get his ship reinbursed and the rest got replayed server logs don;t show anything. We been in assault frigate so it we didn;t really care about reinbursement but still say something about their custommer support
- Other case: big alliance leader losts his mothership in huge lag and huge fight and gets it replaced despite of policy never reinburse supercaps. (it was my alliance so i wont give name especially because the dude is a repected leader and there was indeed crazy lag).
-Titans are stripped from owners that used social engineering (which is legal in eve) and gaved back to other people, docket in station and (and as far as i remember without titan skill). - Some ruussians tricked at a pos the owners of a titan that was just cocked.
-Also their stuff have been involved in huge scandals with T2 bpos gived to aliances, and more recently in active spying in favour of some entityes.
For me EVE is pretty much a chapter closed for yeards allready, i just wanted to give a headsup to new players on an independent forum. The ccp support team is very restrictive and they censor anything that they don;t like on their forums.
I don;t think that somebody can make an ideea about what eve is in just a weekend. 10 years ago when you could number the mmo on the fingers of a hand (almost) yeah you had to take your time to learn.
Those days people will just move to next MMOs/game. Nobody will stay months in game so it can understand and eventually enjoy. Regardless of people try to say untill you have at least 3-4 months in eve you wont be able to do anything (nobody cares about a noob in rifter or some cruiser).
CCP will milk eve for as long as they can, they jumped in bed with Sony with dust 514, a free to play game. Probably they realized that nobody will be crazy enough to pay for a fps made by them.
I gave up, why spend a week of farming(missions, doing industry like you etc) to have a ship for weekend and spend the weekend running, camping blobing, getting blobed or in lag when i can play world of tanks and have pvp in 30 sec.
As an industry player I've not found the need to do any of the things you've listed above.
Gathering resources and building stuff to sell for a profit IS the game for me.
People need to lose stuff in order for me to play, but they don't want to lose their stuff so instead of charging into battle guns blazing they need to be more cautious or give someone like me their ISK.
Ship loss and item loss are required for eve to be a full game and a consequence of that is people protect their property by doing the things you complain about above.
You've listed two games both of which are not mmorpgs perhaps you don't want to play a mmorpg, but would prefer to play multiplayer games.
Yes people needs to lose stuff in order to buy new stuff. But if they don;t fight they don;t lose. If you can have some ships that are fective enough for people to use them and don;t care about than be sure there will be pvp and then will be a lot more that want the extra edge from a ship builded by a player.
They have that it's called a starter ship and the game gives you one each time you start the game as a new player or die without a ship in your hanger.
Everything else is made by a player and subjected to the market.
Eve is about allowing players to control the game experience for good or bad.
Your complaint is about player behaviour and not so much the game mechanics.
you want players to behave the way you want them to behave whether it be in combat or the prices on the market and are willing to harm the game experience for everyone else in order for you to have your fun.
Eve supplies the tools and players supply the entertainment for good or bad and you need to decide whether you are comfortable with that - which you are not.
Eve is not the type of game you'll enjoy since we pesky people are not going to behave the way you want and you are not good enough as a player to change the game experience to what you want to see in game.
You want cheap ships? Become an industry player and supply cheap ships.
You want to lower the cost of something? Flood the market with that thing and watch the prices drop and drop.
You be the change that you want to be in the game.
I gave up, why spend a week of farming(missions, doing industry like you etc) to have a ship for weekend and spend the weekend running, camping blobing, getting blobed or in lag when i can play world of tanks and have pvp in 30 sec.
As an industry player I've not found the need to do any of the things you've listed above.
Gathering resources and building stuff to sell for a profit IS the game for me.
People need to lose stuff in order for me to play, but they don't want to lose their stuff so instead of charging into battle guns blazing they need to be more cautious or give someone like me their ISK.
Ship loss and item loss are required for eve to be a full game and a consequence of that is people protect their property by doing the things you complain about above.
You've listed two games both of which are not mmorpgs perhaps you don't want to play a mmorpg, but would prefer to play multiplayer games.
Yes people needs to lose stuff in order to buy new stuff. But if they don;t fight they don;t lose. If you can have some ships that are fective enough for people to use them and don;t care about than be sure there will be pvp and then will be a lot more that want the extra edge from a ship builded by a player.
They have that it's called a starter ship and the game gives you one each time you start the game as a new player or die without a ship in your hanger.
Everything else is made by a player and subjected to the market.
Eve is about allowing players to control the game experience for good or bad.
Your complaint is about player behaviour and not so much the game mechanics.
you want players to behave the way you want them to behave whether it be in combat or the prices on the market and are willing to harm the game experience for everyone else in order for you to have your fun.
Eve supplies the tools and players supply the entertainment for good or bad and you need to decide whether you are comfortable with that - which you are not.
Eve is not the type of game you'll enjoy since we pesky people are not going to behave the way you want and you are not good enough as a player to change the game experience to what you want to see in game.
You want cheap ships? Become an industry player and supply cheap ships.
You want to lower the cost of something? Flood the market with that thing and watch the prices drop and drop.
You be the change that you want to be in the game.
Really ? hyow much ISK you save if you have your own bpo and you are located in 0.0 ? Even putting buy orders for minerals for long time perriods it will still not work because nobody is crazy enough to mine TRIT.
Imagine you have to do 3 jumpps with your freighter from highsec, you have pos with cyno gen you still need to scout every jump, wait untill local is clean (many times you will have cloakers) and so on.
In EVE is not enough to understand the mecanic to be good. You need to have HUGE amount of time to burn to do anything.
You will be camped, hunted etc. You have to wait or you die, quickly.
PVP in eve is not about fighting skill , is about intel, patience, spyes and to a certain degree to listen what your fleet comander says - who to target, who to atack and where to warp.
The so gods of pvp used to have LOTS of alts infiltrated in corporations where we used to roam so we kew where to go, what to attack when to run. Otherwise you get baited and blobed in next 10 minutes of your roam (you atack , enemy cyno goes up, titan bridges shit load of stuff on you+ some caps supercaps).
Don;t get me wrong this is fun too, but you need to understand the "game" - the game inside the game.
I think the issue here is the lack of understanding what a sandbox game is, it is not instant gradification, it is about taking your time and working towards something. Finding what you like to do and doing it.
if you are not making the funds to support your habit then it is up to you to figure out what you need to do to change that. Most people in the game do.
It is all about the amount of work you want to put in, You can do a lot of work and get very little return, you can do very little and hit a mother load of isk... just because you have not found what works for you does not mean it is not out there.
I think the issue here is the lack of understanding what a sandbox game is, it is not instant gradification, it is about taking your time and working towards something. Finding what you like to do and doing it.
if you are not making the funds to support your habit then it is up to you to figure out what you need to do to change that. Most people in the game do.
It is all about the amount of work you want to put in, You can do a lot of work and get very little return, you can do very little and hit a mother load of isk... just because you have not found what works for you does not mean it is not out there.
This is an accurate answer and I agree.
I didn;t had problems with money ingame, i had a steady income from industry and bpo business and farming.
I just feel that this game can be so much more if it would simplify some stuff for some people.
Nobody will loose from Gold Ships.
-pvpers wil get more pew pew
-industry will make more ships for dedicated pvpers
-casual pvpers will get the gold ships for weekend evening fun
-miners will mine more
The only guys that will loose will be the 0.0 CEOs because more pew pew will complicate their life (no more Titan/Nyx plexing),no more mine lke no tomorow, casual people will not have to take the shit from CEO's to be allowed to rat/mine/plex in order to make credits.
So I can understand why is this resistence and why CCP does not want to change the model because does not want to upset the 0.1 of population that HAVE THE POWER AND CONTROL THE GAME. This will kill also the PLEX so no more free accounts for CEOs. Also chinese famers will have to reprofilate.
So is all about money of few and CCP and not the good of players.
I don;t think that somebody can make an ideea about what eve is in just a weekend. 10 years ago when you could number the mmo on the fingers of a hand (almost) yeah you had to take your time to learn.
Those days people will just move to next MMOs/game. Nobody will stay months in game so it can understand and eventually enjoy. Regardless of people try to say untill you have at least 3-4 months in eve you wont be able to do anything (nobody cares about a noob in rifter or some cruiser).
CCP will milk eve for as long as they can, they jumped in bed with Sony with dust 514, a free to play game. Probably they realized that nobody will be crazy enough to pay for a fps made by them.
edit: it generally takes different people different amounts of time to absorb information. For me I learned all I needed to know about eve over the span of a few hours. Eves learning curve is dependent on the gamers playstyle and patience. I think Eve is a joke personally. Their skill system is a gimmick and not fair or balanced for new players. However the game is fun for what it does right. Cheers to everyone who likes this, I hope WOD is not going to be built the same way.
Easiest fix in the world would be to give players free ships with free fittings for joining the Militia / Faction Warfare corps in High Sec.
Ships available to you based on your skills - can fly fitted Cruisers or Destroyers if you have Cruisers II Destoyer III etc.
These "free" ships max out maybe something like Tech 2 or Tech 1.5-ish fittings - can only equip what you are trained for of course.
No insurance, no down payments, nothing.
So players who want to risk their own ships / ISK can bring Tech 2+ into the battle, have an edge, but risk losing the ships of course.
Factions Points earned through kills and system captures (that whole mechanic needs reworking to be more like RvR system) used to upgrade gear on your ship (lost if ship explodes of course) or give you access to boosters or implants (of course also lost if you are podded) or stuff like buying faction ammo for added damage.
Faction NPCs then pretty much would be paying for the ships for combat pilots, opens up an entire new element of gameplay for traders/industrialists to supply the ships and fittings via faction missions more "officially."
Mining mission ops from NPC FW corps, with paired escort/defense combat missions for capsuleers. Maybe even trigger availability of search/destroy FW missions for opposing faction capsuleers if mining/escort missions created in contested/front line border systems.
Taking planets/systems from opposing factions grants your faction access to more manufacturing lines, planetary resources, and cold hard ISK reward paid to "pool" for whole faction to pay trader/industrial missioners and combat capsuleer "salary."
Combat pilots always "flagged" for PvP against other factions obviously, trader/industrials only flagged when hauling these specific faction "tagged" goods.
Trade missions from FW NPC corps to haul crafted goods, escort missions for FW capsuleers, search/destroy combat missions for opposing FW capsuleers.
Instead of bounty for player kills of opposing factions, those kills generate money for your faction. Bonus ISK for your faction (and bonus FP for you) for taking out specific targets as defined in search/destroy FW NPC missions.
Based on your kills and participation in system/planet captures, get a "salary" of ISK deposited into your bank account so if you decide to leave FW or want to spend your own ISK on better fits than is freely given, you can.
NPC FW affiliated miners/haulers/stations as viable targets for missions, also used to help keep faction imbalance from being too damn far off (faction can assign some of its own "resources" to harvesting/industrial/combat patrols.)
Just kind of free writing/thinking here, but come on CCP this is easy stuff. Easy to implement, no negative effect on economy (more participants = always better) and a LOT of people would sign up if FW actually had a damn purpose and was fun.
IMO - let the "old hats" have low/null sec and attract tons of new players to a completely revamped FW system in high sec. Once those new players become old hats too, still have low/null to branch into.
I don;t think that somebody can make an ideea about what eve is in just a weekend. 10 years ago when you could number the mmo on the fingers of a hand (almost) yeah you had to take your time to learn.
Those days people will just move to next MMOs/game. Nobody will stay months in game so it can understand and eventually enjoy. Regardless of people try to say untill you have at least 3-4 months in eve you wont be able to do anything (nobody cares about a noob in rifter or some cruiser).
CCP will milk eve for as long as they can, they jumped in bed with Sony with dust 514, a free to play game. Probably they realized that nobody will be crazy enough to pay for a fps made by them.
edit: it generally takes different people different amounts of time to absorb information. For me I learned all I needed to know about eve over the span of a few hours. Eves learning curve is dependent on the gamers playstyle and patience. I think Eve is a joke personally. Their skill system is a gimmick and not fair or balanced for new players. However the game is fun for what it does right. Cheers to everyone who likes this, I hope WOD is not going to be built the same way.
Common dude, we are not stupid. If you say you learned how to dock-undock and do 2-3 missions yes. To understand all you have to do to "play" this is ridicoulus.
And even if somehow you learned you still can;t do anything except scouting untill you can T2 fitt a battlecruiser.
Comments
I played planetside2 too from time to time, quite fun but you need to search a bit for a good fight.
You are just making stuff up.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I think that having that 1% is the hot thing about such a game. It's better than the constant dings and rewards of your average game that players expect constant rewards. If you have constant rewards how long will it take for the effect wear off and thus the appreciation of what you get is gone?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I agree for the most part, but 1% is just as bad as 99% imo.
As in - having too few rewards paced over too long a period is JUST as bad as too many rewards over too short a period.
The "modern" themepark is guilty of the later, while more "classic" games like EVE are guilty of the former.
Yeah sure, nobody made alts in order to cyno their capitals and none of the rich players use plex to pay for their subscription.
Is not even 1%.
farm 5 -10 hours for a good ship ship. roam 3 hours for a fight . fight 2-3 minutes IF you are lucky.
Okay, now you are trolling. First you say 99% have 2 accounts and when called on your BS you flip to the other end and say I am saying nobody does it. There is a wide range there.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Worst part of EVE PvP?
Just like almost every other implementation of PvP -
Crowd control.
Makes strategic retreat and/or harrowing escape nearly impossible - unless you are specifically built/fitted for evasion - in which case you suck at fighting so....
You either run or you fight (and probably die) so what's the point?
That is one thing themepark MMOs tend to do so, so much better in PvP is give ALL players tools for both offense and defense, escape and counter and attack.
Well, that might be the second worst part of EVE PvP.
The first really being Bottlenecks due to the limitation of the entire Gate system.
Can't really find a awesome smuggling route and sneak through a system or evade pursuit by slipping through a asteroid belt or gravity field or 99% of the cool shit you see in Star Wars / Star Trek / Babylon 5 / Battlestar Galactica etc. etc.
It's "have a cloaking device" or "MWD out of bubble" or "reduce align/warp time to below target lock time" etc. and other completely immersion breaking "gamey" garbage because of the Gate system and warp bubbles which all ties back to Crowd Control and Prop/Warp jamming.
Don't want your prey to run?
Attack their home - make them stay and fight to defend their holdings or lose them.
Or use more "common" Sci-Fi like specifically targetting weapons or navigation systems or warp drives etc.
99% have AT LEAST 2 accounts. Honestly i don;t recall anyone who didn't had alts at least after the capitals spreaded.
I don't know what you are doing in eve, but the norm is have ALTs for cynos,scouts,haul,industry,salvage. I supose you quit NPC corp right ?
Evem if you run missions in empire you should scout gate for suicide ganks if you have any fitt worth speaking of
Have you tried Red vs Blue? It was set up by and for people who want exactly that.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
You must be really proud of how of how great of warrior you are ..... in a computer game.
I just want some instant pvp in the limited ammount of time i have after work, family etc.
its good that your enjoying world of tanks, but, even though Eve may not have the constant 'action' there is far more to Eve than just the PVP, which is why games like world of tanks just don't cut it for me. Even Planetside 2 has more engaging gameplay imo.
I'd really enjoy EVE again if we could get decent high-sec content - get "on-demand" action with the same risk/reward cause-effect as PvP - but in PvE.
Missioning is awful - mining is boring - trade is useless in high-sec - at least exploration is getting a big bump in Odyssey.
Sansha is just as bad as PvE Raid grinding in Themepark games. Have to have the right build, right fleet comp to get invited and it's just a grind for isk with no real purpose.
Have you tried Red vs Blue? It was set up by and for people who want exactly that.
You must be really proud of how of how great of warrior you are ..... in a computer game.
I just want some instant pvp in the limited ammount of time i have after work, family etc.
Move along, we dont want your kind here.You can move along, this is not your tread you don;t like don;t read it. Just because you are brainswashed in eve and can tell there to your pets whatever you want it does not mean you can throw that anywhere.
Hahhaha, thank you for your faith in me
I just tried my best to address everybodys concerns/answers.
But bottom line is that pretty much all I said is true.
Is a matter of taste if you should work 10 hours to prepare to have some pvp (which lasts minutes) or if you should get in pvp in 30 sec like in World of Tanks and many other games and i can respect that.
I want to add one more thing: the gamemaster in eve are the bigest as..oles ever existed in MMO business. Theyr motto is custommer is never right.
- One example : roam of 6 people we all die because desinc and lag. One dude the had some connections and get his ship reinbursed and the rest got replayed server logs don;t show anything. We been in assault frigate so it we didn;t really care about reinbursement but still say something about their custommer support
- Other case: big alliance leader losts his mothership in huge lag and huge fight and gets it replaced despite of policy never reinburse supercaps. (it was my alliance so i wont give name especially because the dude is a repected leader and there was indeed crazy lag).
-Titans are stripped from owners that used social engineering (which is legal in eve) and gaved back to other people, docket in station and (and as far as i remember without titan skill). - Some ruussians tricked at a pos the owners of a titan that was just cocked.
-Also their stuff have been involved in huge scandals with T2 bpos gived to aliances, and more recently in active spying in favour of some entityes.
For me EVE is pretty much a chapter closed for yeards allready, i just wanted to give a headsup to new players on an independent forum. The ccp support team is very restrictive and they censor anything that they don;t like on their forums.
Breakdown on what you need to do before playing Eve:
1) Research Eve thoroughly
2) Make sure you have an entire weekend or week off of work/errands
3) make a huge pot of coffee, order some num nums
4) load up Eve
5) TAKE YOUR TIME AND READ THROUGH EVERYTHING
6) enjoy eve or uninstall
Can't tell you how important #1 and #5 is...
I don;t think that somebody can make an ideea about what eve is in just a weekend. 10 years ago when you could number the mmo on the fingers of a hand (almost) yeah you had to take your time to learn.
Those days people will just move to next MMOs/game. Nobody will stay months in game so it can understand and eventually enjoy. Regardless of people try to say untill you have at least 3-4 months in eve you wont be able to do anything (nobody cares about a noob in rifter or some cruiser).
CCP will milk eve for as long as they can, they jumped in bed with Sony with dust 514, a free to play game. Probably they realized that nobody will be crazy enough to pay for a fps made by them.
They have that it's called a starter ship and the game gives you one each time you start the game as a new player or die without a ship in your hanger.
Everything else is made by a player and subjected to the market.
Eve is about allowing players to control the game experience for good or bad.
Your complaint is about player behaviour and not so much the game mechanics.
you want players to behave the way you want them to behave whether it be in combat or the prices on the market and are willing to harm the game experience for everyone else in order for you to have your fun.
Eve supplies the tools and players supply the entertainment for good or bad and you need to decide whether you are comfortable with that - which you are not.
Eve is not the type of game you'll enjoy since we pesky people are not going to behave the way you want and you are not good enough as a player to change the game experience to what you want to see in game.
You want cheap ships? Become an industry player and supply cheap ships.
You want to lower the cost of something? Flood the market with that thing and watch the prices drop and drop.
You be the change that you want to be in the game.
Really ? hyow much ISK you save if you have your own bpo and you are located in 0.0 ? Even putting buy orders for minerals for long time perriods it will still not work because nobody is crazy enough to mine TRIT.
Imagine you have to do 3 jumpps with your freighter from highsec, you have pos with cyno gen you still need to scout every jump, wait untill local is clean (many times you will have cloakers) and so on.
In EVE is not enough to understand the mecanic to be good. You need to have HUGE amount of time to burn to do anything.
You will be camped, hunted etc. You have to wait or you die, quickly.
On a side note:
PVP in eve is not about fighting skill , is about intel, patience, spyes and to a certain degree to listen what your fleet comander says - who to target, who to atack and where to warp.
The so gods of pvp used to have LOTS of alts infiltrated in corporations where we used to roam so we kew where to go, what to attack when to run. Otherwise you get baited and blobed in next 10 minutes of your roam (you atack , enemy cyno goes up, titan bridges shit load of stuff on you+ some caps supercaps).
Don;t get me wrong this is fun too, but you need to understand the "game" - the game inside the game.
I think the issue here is the lack of understanding what a sandbox game is, it is not instant gradification, it is about taking your time and working towards something. Finding what you like to do and doing it.
if you are not making the funds to support your habit then it is up to you to figure out what you need to do to change that. Most people in the game do.
It is all about the amount of work you want to put in, You can do a lot of work and get very little return, you can do very little and hit a mother load of isk... just because you have not found what works for you does not mean it is not out there.
This is an accurate answer and I agree.
I didn;t had problems with money ingame, i had a steady income from industry and bpo business and farming.
I just feel that this game can be so much more if it would simplify some stuff for some people.
Nobody will loose from Gold Ships.
-pvpers wil get more pew pew
-industry will make more ships for dedicated pvpers
-casual pvpers will get the gold ships for weekend evening fun
-miners will mine more
The only guys that will loose will be the 0.0 CEOs because more pew pew will complicate their life (no more Titan/Nyx plexing),no more mine lke no tomorow, casual people will not have to take the shit from CEO's to be allowed to rat/mine/plex in order to make credits.
So I can understand why is this resistence and why CCP does not want to change the model because does not want to upset the 0.1 of population that HAVE THE POWER AND CONTROL THE GAME. This will kill also the PLEX so no more free accounts for CEOs. Also chinese famers will have to reprofilate.
So is all about money of few and CCP and not the good of players.
edit: it generally takes different people different amounts of time to absorb information. For me I learned all I needed to know about eve over the span of a few hours. Eves learning curve is dependent on the gamers playstyle and patience. I think Eve is a joke personally. Their skill system is a gimmick and not fair or balanced for new players. However the game is fun for what it does right. Cheers to everyone who likes this, I hope WOD is not going to be built the same way.
Easiest fix in the world would be to give players free ships with free fittings for joining the Militia / Faction Warfare corps in High Sec.
Ships available to you based on your skills - can fly fitted Cruisers or Destroyers if you have Cruisers II Destoyer III etc.
These "free" ships max out maybe something like Tech 2 or Tech 1.5-ish fittings - can only equip what you are trained for of course.
No insurance, no down payments, nothing.
So players who want to risk their own ships / ISK can bring Tech 2+ into the battle, have an edge, but risk losing the ships of course.
Factions Points earned through kills and system captures (that whole mechanic needs reworking to be more like RvR system) used to upgrade gear on your ship (lost if ship explodes of course) or give you access to boosters or implants (of course also lost if you are podded) or stuff like buying faction ammo for added damage.
Faction NPCs then pretty much would be paying for the ships for combat pilots, opens up an entire new element of gameplay for traders/industrialists to supply the ships and fittings via faction missions more "officially."
Mining mission ops from NPC FW corps, with paired escort/defense combat missions for capsuleers. Maybe even trigger availability of search/destroy FW missions for opposing faction capsuleers if mining/escort missions created in contested/front line border systems.
Taking planets/systems from opposing factions grants your faction access to more manufacturing lines, planetary resources, and cold hard ISK reward paid to "pool" for whole faction to pay trader/industrial missioners and combat capsuleer "salary."
Combat pilots always "flagged" for PvP against other factions obviously, trader/industrials only flagged when hauling these specific faction "tagged" goods.
Trade missions from FW NPC corps to haul crafted goods, escort missions for FW capsuleers, search/destroy combat missions for opposing FW capsuleers.
Instead of bounty for player kills of opposing factions, those kills generate money for your faction. Bonus ISK for your faction (and bonus FP for you) for taking out specific targets as defined in search/destroy FW NPC missions.
Based on your kills and participation in system/planet captures, get a "salary" of ISK deposited into your bank account so if you decide to leave FW or want to spend your own ISK on better fits than is freely given, you can.
NPC FW affiliated miners/haulers/stations as viable targets for missions, also used to help keep faction imbalance from being too damn far off (faction can assign some of its own "resources" to harvesting/industrial/combat patrols.)
Just kind of free writing/thinking here, but come on CCP this is easy stuff. Easy to implement, no negative effect on economy (more participants = always better) and a LOT of people would sign up if FW actually had a damn purpose and was fun.
IMO - let the "old hats" have low/null sec and attract tons of new players to a completely revamped FW system in high sec. Once those new players become old hats too, still have low/null to branch into.
Common dude, we are not stupid. If you say you learned how to dock-undock and do 2-3 missions yes. To understand all you have to do to "play" this is ridicoulus.
And even if somehow you learned you still can;t do anything except scouting untill you can T2 fitt a battlecruiser.