I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.
It's like you don't learn your lesson.
We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.
They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.
Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol
Show us these "supposed" facts that show the actual subs number is lower than 500k ill be over here eating my fried chicken while i wait.
The conference call stated that the subs were just below 500K
Also I believe the sub numbers but I think they were bloated following the release of Makeb. A lot of people subbed to get Makeb for $10 instead of $20, even myself. The sub numbers are no doubt even lower now.
Unless they do start bringing out loads of worthwhile new content (eg Cathar race is nice but not wortwhile (although I have been holding back a char on this but plenty others have gotten all they can stomach out the game to bother playing it again with just a new race. If there was a new class as well then it would have been worthwhile), the macrobinocular quests look worthwhile although have not tried that yet), then subs will just continue to drop from here on out.
and you have no proof that the subs are dropping. all you have is "i think the game sucks so therefore everyone thinks the game sucks" mentality. Come back with some actual sources that show the games P2P Subs are dropping.
Fact is I was subbed and now I am not, plus others have siad they are switching from subs to preferred
Game launched with 2 million subs, and declined through 2012 resulting in it going F2P to survive, and Subs were just under 1 million in August, when F2P was announced, and are now just under 500K, so that is fact they dropped
I do not think the game sucks, it is fact the game sucks, otherwise the 2 million people would still be playing, and it would not be F2P.
If the game "sucked" as much as you claim then no one would be playing it, so yes it is you think the game sucks. The shift to F2P started with DDO when Turbine proved that having P2P and F2P was profitable. After DDO went F2P Turbine brought LOTRO then majority of the other major MMO Developers did the same. So saying a game that allows for F2P players is failing is proven wrong. So basically you have nothing to prove anything.
Over 1.5 million are not playing (or subbing to) the game vs 500K from 2 million.
The people who bought the game, which was 2 million, intended on playing and subbing to it, if they were not willing to play and sub, they would have sat on the fence until it went F2P.
It is so clear that SWTOR went F2P because it sucked because EA kept saying it. They even said its performance was not good enough, and they gave us constant figures, and said they needed 500K subs to break even. The figures were heading towards 500K and they had to take drastic action. If the game sustained 1 million subs, SWTOR would not have gone F2P, and EA did not want SWTOR going F2P, they wanted to keep it a P2P game. They wanted the success of WOW
I can't believe you guys still believe the massaged numbers coming out of EA.
It's like you don't learn your lesson.
We know the subs are lower, much lower than 500k.
They're including anyone who has been subbed at any time in the last year. And every account created since they went F2P in their F2P calculation, even the ones who stopped before level 20 cap. It's hilarious, but not illegal.
Come on guys, we know EA has been doing this with SWTOR since the start. This is not new. Don't fall for it again lol
Show us these "supposed" facts that show the actual subs number is lower than 500k ill be over here eating my fried chicken while i wait.
The conference call stated that the subs were just below 500K
Also I believe the sub numbers but I think they were bloated following the release of Makeb. A lot of people subbed to get Makeb for $10 instead of $20, even myself. The sub numbers are no doubt even lower now.
Unless they do start bringing out loads of worthwhile new content (eg Cathar race is nice but not wortwhile (although I have been holding back a char on this but plenty others have gotten all they can stomach out the game to bother playing it again with just a new race. If there was a new class as well then it would have been worthwhile), the macrobinocular quests look worthwhile although have not tried that yet), then subs will just continue to drop from here on out.
and you have no proof that the subs are dropping. all you have is "i think the game sucks so therefore everyone thinks the game sucks" mentality. Come back with some actual sources that show the games P2P Subs are dropping.
Fact is I was subbed and now I am not, plus others have siad they are switching from subs to preferred
Game launched with 2 million subs, and declined through 2012 resulting in it going F2P to survive, and Subs were just under 1 million in August, when F2P was announced, and are now just under 500K, so that is fact they dropped
I do not think the game sucks, it is fact the game sucks, otherwise the 2 million people would still be playing, and it would not be F2P.
Worst possible to arrive to conclusion and then try to pass them as facts. I don't know who are these 'others' and how many others you know but world doesn't revolve around you and your 'others'.
By the way only because 2 million extra would play the game doesn't mean that game doesn't suck. Popularity of something doesn't equal to it being 'good'.
Using same logic SWG sucked too given how the population dropped like dead flies.
i would rather believe my own experience, and those of friends, than numbers from the devs
specially numbers from big corporations,,theyre not exactly known for honesty
popularity is not equal to quality, but unpopular mmos,,like this one,,, are fighting an uphill battle
on the other hand, the big panda can take a dump on the players carpet, and the wow fan will
declare his carpet as a relic
wow, at least, has the quality of success
survival is a quality too,,but not as big, as success
I like the way you just focussed on the yellow, the 2nd paragraph was said to back that up.
If SWG had 2 million subs to start with it would not have lost as much as SWTOR, simple reason is that there is plenty more things to do in SWG than SWTOR.
SWTOR is like a single player game, where you play through it, and then when you come to the end you may play it through again, or just move on to the next game. KOTOR on Xbox and PC in 2003 was a great game too, but people are not playing it now, because they have run out of things to do in it. That is what SWTOR is like once you hit max level, the fun ends. The fun in SWG started when you hit max level, giving the game its longevity.
Nothing has changed with SWTOR to encourage long term play from its launch, so there is no reason why people would keep subbing now and not before
I bet you the next conferance call the subs will be less again, or no news at all (unless they have an awesome ace up their sleeve which will radically improve SWTOR) If the game stays like it is, it is natural that subs will drop, as not even the best game will keep subs / players if not enough worthy content gets added to it.
Don't care for second paragraph because that is old news. I am talking about now and change in numbers since F2P conversion. And so far we got nothing but usual speculations and facts pulled out of thin air to put down the sub numbers yet again.
Needed more than just guess work and speculations this time if you are going to make a claim that EA is lying about the numbers. That is all very simple really. Like i said earlier i don't trust EA but i also don't trust posters who have an agenda against the game for past one year now.
So no further arguments from my side because i have no intentions to hit my head against the wall. A simple factual source would end this discussion but sadly you got nothing.
It is ironic though that if EA declares lower sub numbers you would be ready to believe it but if EA says otherwise ofcourse they are lying and mis representing the numbers.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
People can make up sub numbers without links all they want to hate/troll this game. The bottom line is that Im enjoying the game and its gotten better. Keep it up EA/bioware!
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I like the way you just focussed on the yellow, the 2nd paragraph was said to back that up.
If SWG had 2 million subs to start with it would not have lost as much as SWTOR, simple reason is that there is plenty more things to do in SWG than SWTOR.
SWTOR is like a single player game, where you play through it, and then when you come to the end you may play it through again, or just move on to the next game. KOTOR on Xbox and PC in 2003 was a great game too, but people are not playing it now, because they have run out of things to do in it. That is what SWTOR is like once you hit max level, the fun ends. The fun in SWG started when you hit max level, giving the game its longevity.
Nothing has changed with SWTOR to encourage long term play from its launch, so there is no reason why people would keep subbing now and not before
I bet you the next conferance call the subs will be less again, or no news at all (unless they have an awesome ace up their sleeve which will radically improve SWTOR) If the game stays like it is, it is natural that subs will drop, as not even the best game will keep subs / players if not enough worthy content gets added to it.
Don't care for second paragraph because that is old news. I am talking about now and change in numbers since F2P conversion. And so far we got nothing but usual speculations and facts pulled out of thin air to put down the sub numbers yet again.
Needed more than just guess work and speculations this time if you are going to make a claim that EA is lying about the numbers. That is all very simple really. Like i said earlier i don't trust EA but i also don't trust posters who have an agenda against the game for past one year now.
So no further arguments from my side because i have no intentions to hit my head against the wall. A simple factual source would end this discussion but sadly you got nothing.
It is ironic though that if EA declares lower sub numbers you would be ready to believe it but if EA says otherwise ofcourse they are lying and mis representing the numbers.
The 2nd paragraph is not old news, as only knew with this thread that the subs were under 500K. If they stated here that it was over 500K then you what you say would have some merit. All that has been showing is decline, and nothing else
There are no facts showing and none that you have provided that show subs are rising / not dropping either. Everything that was said all happened since November when it went F2P. What EA said is the truth, but when did all that happen - Nov? Dec? March/April with Makeb?
Also they stated 2 months ago that 2 million new accounts were created since F2P, but yet here state it is only 1.7 million. What happened to 0.3 million new accounts? They just say whatever to make things look good.
i would rather believe my own experience, and those of friends, than numbers from the devs
specially numbers from big corporations,,theyre not exactly known for honesty
popularity is not equal to quality, but unpopular mmos,,like this one,,, are fighting an uphill battle
on the other hand, the big panda can take a dump on the players carpet, and the wow fan will
declare his carpet as a relic
wow, at least, has the quality of success
survival is a quality too,,but not as big, as success
Believe whatever you want but trying to pass your beliefs as some fact is entirely another matter.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
The 2nd paragraph is not old news, as only knew with this thread that the subs were under 500K. If they stated here that it was over 500K then you what you say would have some merit. All that has been showing is decline, and nothing else
There are no facts showing and none that you have provided that show subs are rising / not dropping either. Everything that was said all happened since November when it went F2P. What EA said is the truth, but when did all that happen - Nov? Dec? March/April with Makeb?
Also they stated 2 months ago that 2 million new accounts were created since F2P, but yet here state it is only 1.7 million. What happened to 0.3 million new accounts? They just say whatever to make things look good.
Huh? so i see where is the confusion. Why would i need to prove anything? i am not the one refuting official numbers. You are. So onus of proof is on you not me. If i have to believe between you and EA i would believe the numbers presented by them in the press conference. It is much easier for me to ignore you because you haven't presented any reliable data or source so far.
So like i said unless you got some valid source to show EA numbers are lies (other than your own speculations and guess work)..i am not interested because i have no intentions of going in circles with you.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
The 2nd paragraph is not old news, as only knew with this thread that the subs were under 500K. If they stated here that it was over 500K then you what you say would have some merit. All that has been showing is decline, and nothing else
There are no facts showing and none that you have provided that show subs are rising / not dropping either. Everything that was said all happened since November when it went F2P. What EA said is the truth, but when did all that happen - Nov? Dec? March/April with Makeb?
Also they stated 2 months ago that 2 million new accounts were created since F2P, but yet here state it is only 1.7 million. What happened to 0.3 million new accounts? They just say whatever to make things look good.
Huh? so i see where is the confusion. Why would i need to prove anything? i am not the one refuting official numbers. You are. So onus of proof is on you not me. If i have to believe between you and EA i would believe the numbers presented by them in the press conference. It is much easier for me to ignore you because you haven't presented any reliable data or source so far.
So like i said unless you got some valid source to show EA numbers are lies (other than your own speculations and guess work)..i am not interested because i have no intentions of going in circles with you.
I am not refuting official numbers. I am going by what is being said by EA
They say they had under 1 millions subs in August, then the next statement of subs by EA is under 500K
As far as I know 500K is less than 1 million, but you do not see any decline?
How many new accounts does SWTOR have since F2P - 1.7 or 2 million - EA have claimed both
The game is twice as profitable since the FTP hybrid conversion
Published sub numbers place the game in the top 3 MMOs in the Western market
Feedback around Makeb and the general direction of the game has been largely positive in recent months
EA stock up 8% since the earnings call
Commitment to future content pipeline
Whilst the game undoubtedly had a rocky first 12 months, it has grown a lot in terms of players numbers and overall quality in recent months. I have been playing since early access and have never seen the servers so busy.
All in all, a perfectly respectable set of results, echoed by investor confidence and a stock increase equals a lot of butt hurt haters on this forum which, I assume, is why I see so many posters desperately grabbing for made up sub numbers of old games, making deliberately skewed comparisons against various Eastern pay per minute models etc in a sad effort to take the shine off a positive set of results
Where are all those haters that told us it was fact, the game was going to be dead by now....
If you really think servers hold 35,000 people, you're living in a fantasy world. SWTOR servers have 5k-8k tops, each. The whole super-server thing is marketing bull, we know this. Concurrent server usage is also a smaller proportion of this, 3k at max. Any server of SWTOR does not have 3000 people playing at the same time. Not one. You can check if you want.
Check the number of servers, check peak activity and you will realise there are less than 300k individual people playing per week, in both EU and US combined.
Some people believed the EA numbers on subs above 1.5 million when it was obvious that subs were below 300k. I said this, others said this, now 1 year later we know we were right. The game went F2P, the staff got fired, etc - we knew this would happen.
And now that EA is releasing hilarious numbers again, people are jumping to believe them.
It's obvious. Stop falling for their massaged numbers. We all know how it's done. F2P with no box sale means you can throw any number out there including the total number of created accounts, which is what the 1.7million is. Sub numbers without the words "current and active" are massaged in multiple ways including any revenue from subs in the last year.
You should go check then, because you are wrong.
They actually do have over 6k playing on most of them.
I dont particularly like the game either, but the ludicrous notion of "I dont like the game therefore the numbers are a lie and no one plays it" is rampant around here.
Agree that SWTOR is unlikely to have recovered its costs yet. What JR, ex-EA CEO actually said was that the game would be profitable but nothing to write home about with 1M subs not 500k. And in another interview that they had assumed 1.2M.
Something under 500k: a good number - that was how many subs they said they needed to break even previously. Since then they have reduced the size of their team so they should be recouping some of those costs.
What they mean by doubling revenue though - who knows. From when to when? Are they talking daily, monthly, quarterly? Its a good sounding statement but may simply mean that prior to it going F2P things were "poor" and since then they are "better".
Challenges ahead:
Keeping people on board. The sub number may be inflated by the launch of the expansion. F2P folk subscribing at the reduced cost. Perfectly good move on EA's part of course but will they stay subscribed or go back to being F2P?
1.7M F2P accounts number - very low for F2P. At odds with the James Olsen 2M number as well - was he rounding the number up! And who knows, when he said 2nd biggest maybe they had more than 500k subs and since then they have lost subs! Or maybe this simply means that numbers JO states need to be treated with caution. 1.7M is less than 2M; under 500k is less than Eve's latest announced subs. However:
Overall: solid subscriber numbers; poor F2P numbers. Will it persuade EA to stay focused on "xpacs" as well as cash shop fluff? Stay focused on their subscribers?
Originally posted by remyburke Those are pretty solid numbers for what it is. In 10 years they'll make their money back.
I have this feeling they have already made their money back and pulling in profits now.
You think so? Hmmm, perhaps. It just seems like $300+ million is a lot of bananas.
It sure is. Has it been confirmed they've spent 300M+, though? If so, then yeah, it's very unlikely. I always thought they didn't spend that much, that it was more 200M.
How they've set themselves up now after all the huge layoffs, they seem geared to stay just on the right side of income/expense. I couldn't help but imagine them going "Whew, let's just make sure we're making profits on a monthly basis now".
It's just a hunch, though, and not based on actual math with valid numbers. :P
Originally posted by Margulis It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.
god the internet is such a cesspool for mis- and dis-information.
no, they said that they needed to make 500k subs to make the game profitable.
Originally posted by Margulis It's really interesting that people are calling these good numbers when it was originally said that if at any time they have under 1 million subs it would be considered a total failure.
god the internet is such a cesspool for mis- and dis-information.
no, they said that they needed to make 500k subs to make the game profitable.
500k would make the game a total failure. Anything below the acceptable after tax IRR is failure; break even numbers are a total failure.
Additionally, the $200 million to make the game is probably an understatement. I don't believe we've got the exact numbers for the expenses allocated to the game, but there's also a lot of overhead at the company that isn't going to be attributed to the game that the game was expected to cover. I am doubtful they've made their money back, or if they have, I doubt they've made much on the game.
I agree with everyone who says the game is getting better. I'm currently subbed; I have fun playing it. However, I'm only subbed because some friends resubbed and I'd be playing something else otherwise. The game is not very good even with all the improvements. The F2P set up is a joke. Denial of hotbars has got to be the craziest F2P restriction ever. The classes are grossly unbalanced. You really have to wonder what the Devs were / are thinking much of the time.
The game was horrendous at release and got worse overtime. That's why there is so much hate for the game. Ilum was terrible. It got worse every time they tried to fix it until they pretty much abandoned the PvP aspect of it. The game ran very poorly on systems it shouldn't have for a long time. I don't know if this was ever fixed or not. I would say the whole multiplayer aspect of the game wasn't well done, but to be fair, that's typical of most MMOs now. We don't have add ons, we don't have macros. For a long time, SWTOR had the worst auction house in any MMO I'd ever played which was appalling considering how long auctions houses have been out in the MMO world. I found all the PvE uninspiring. I thought it was too easy. Others thought it was hard. This may just be a reference disagreement. I've been playing longer than most people and, in my opinion, things were significantly more difficult in the past. Most of the PvP WZs are pretty meh to me. Huttball is fantastic. The story lines are, for the most part, very well done. I'm terrible at leveling. I hate leveling, but I did enjoy it in this game and got two characters to 50 early on (which for me is amazing- I normally just grind one out and then am done forever; I hate alts). However, my perception was that the leveling was focused on at the expense of the endgame.
In spite of its flaws, it can still be a fun game, but I think that comes primarily from the environment. It's Star Wars. Star Wars is fun. The game, however, is subpar. It's missing many basic elements that we've come to expect from MMOs. They have made significant progress in addressing these issues, but it is really late in the game to be doing that and will probably never recover.
I enjoy watching the negative nancies squirm at these numbers, and who knows how much cash the cash shop is generating off the f2p and sub players.
Hey, bitter worts, guess what? This game is going to continue on being a success, and you guys will continue to hate. Who wins? You're still on these forums more than a year later complaining about a game you don't play because your lives are empty, good job.
Person logs into Game A and runs across maybe one player in game while questing.
Person logs into Game B and runs into 3 people while questing and they form a group together.
Which game is really the better game to be playing? Game A or game B?
Numbers only mean something if you personally see them... otherwise they are just numbers on paper and nothing more.
This is interesting. I can log into SWTOR and basically get into many different types of groups on just about any planet. Many planets have multiple instances. f2p has all made this happen. So what that I'm not a sub. Someone is spending the money I would have on unlocks that I can get through the GTN. Either way EA is getting money from me in one form or another.
IF SWTOR is option B I'd rather play that instead of A. Now if there was a "C" where there are 1 billion subs, and there are tons of 1 person groups everywhere and "barrens chat" is running rampant. I'd still rather play "B" since the basic noobs and haters are not playing and as such I'll have a much better playing experience.
So as someone has stated earlier. The game is expanding, Yeah there may be some discrepancy in the "published numbers" but it still does not discount that the game is getting better. So I just have to laugh at all the nay-sayers that have been bashing the game for over a year, touting the wonders of a dead game as the direct competition, still are here bashing ANY "good" news that they just cannot accept
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
What are they identifying as a "subscriber"? Only people paying $15? I highly doubt such a terrible game has that many people paying a subscription per month. Especially when EA is known for bending the truth on a daily basis to extreme levels.
Also, 1.7 million free players just means 1.7 million people REGISTERED new accounts. It doesn't mean they still play.
Measure the average unique logins for both subscribers & F2P players for a month and then we'll talk. EA won't do that because it'd ruin the lie they have been building.
I enjoy watching the negative nancies squirm at these numbers, and who knows how much cash the cash shop is generating off the f2p and sub players.
Hey, bitter worts, guess what? This game is going to continue on being a success, and you guys will continue to hate. Who wins? You're still on these forums more than a year later complaining about a game you don't play because your lives are empty, good job.
I don't squirm at the numbers, only the people like you who do not get what the numbers mean and think the numbers are great.
These numbers would be great for many other P2P MMOs, but SWTOR needs a whole lot more as EA said that they needed 500K subs to break even. If Vanguard needed that many it would not have survived long, the reason Vanguard suvived many years as P2P is because it did not need many players.
Hows that quote go: "Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated?"
I'm happy for the Star Wars crowd. Its a good game, not great, but solid game with some really nice aspects to it.
But the game aside, it sure seems like FTP is the right choice for mmo's these days. Even Freemium models work. These new games coming out thinking about subs should really think twice.
Comments
Over 1.5 million are not playing (or subbing to) the game vs 500K from 2 million.
The people who bought the game, which was 2 million, intended on playing and subbing to it, if they were not willing to play and sub, they would have sat on the fence until it went F2P.
It is so clear that SWTOR went F2P because it sucked because EA kept saying it. They even said its performance was not good enough, and they gave us constant figures, and said they needed 500K subs to break even. The figures were heading towards 500K and they had to take drastic action. If the game sustained 1 million subs, SWTOR would not have gone F2P, and EA did not want SWTOR going F2P, they wanted to keep it a P2P game. They wanted the success of WOW
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
i would rather believe my own experience, and those of friends, than numbers from the devs
specially numbers from big corporations,,theyre not exactly known for honesty
popularity is not equal to quality, but unpopular mmos,,like this one,,, are fighting an uphill battle
on the other hand, the big panda can take a dump on the players carpet, and the wow fan will
declare his carpet as a relic
wow, at least, has the quality of success
survival is a quality too,,but not as big, as success
Don't care for second paragraph because that is old news. I am talking about now and change in numbers since F2P conversion. And so far we got nothing but usual speculations and facts pulled out of thin air to put down the sub numbers yet again.
Needed more than just guess work and speculations this time if you are going to make a claim that EA is lying about the numbers. That is all very simple really. Like i said earlier i don't trust EA but i also don't trust posters who have an agenda against the game for past one year now.
So no further arguments from my side because i have no intentions to hit my head against the wall. A simple factual source would end this discussion but sadly you got nothing.
It is ironic though that if EA declares lower sub numbers you would be ready to believe it but if EA says otherwise ofcourse they are lying and mis representing the numbers.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
The 2nd paragraph is not old news, as only knew with this thread that the subs were under 500K. If they stated here that it was over 500K then you what you say would have some merit. All that has been showing is decline, and nothing else
There are no facts showing and none that you have provided that show subs are rising / not dropping either. Everything that was said all happened since November when it went F2P. What EA said is the truth, but when did all that happen - Nov? Dec? March/April with Makeb?
Also they stated 2 months ago that 2 million new accounts were created since F2P, but yet here state it is only 1.7 million. What happened to 0.3 million new accounts? They just say whatever to make things look good.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Believe whatever you want but trying to pass your beliefs as some fact is entirely another matter.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Huh? so i see where is the confusion. Why would i need to prove anything? i am not the one refuting official numbers. You are. So onus of proof is on you not me. If i have to believe between you and EA i would believe the numbers presented by them in the press conference. It is much easier for me to ignore you because you haven't presented any reliable data or source so far.
So like i said unless you got some valid source to show EA numbers are lies (other than your own speculations and guess work)..i am not interested because i have no intentions of going in circles with you.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I am not refuting official numbers. I am going by what is being said by EA
They say they had under 1 millions subs in August, then the next statement of subs by EA is under 500K
As far as I know 500K is less than 1 million, but you do not see any decline?
How many new accounts does SWTOR have since F2P - 1.7 or 2 million - EA have claimed both
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
That's a solid performance in my view
The game is growing
The game is twice as profitable since the FTP hybrid conversion
Published sub numbers place the game in the top 3 MMOs in the Western market
Feedback around Makeb and the general direction of the game has been largely positive in recent months
EA stock up 8% since the earnings call
Commitment to future content pipeline
Whilst the game undoubtedly had a rocky first 12 months, it has grown a lot in terms of players numbers and overall quality in recent months. I have been playing since early access and have never seen the servers so busy.
All in all, a perfectly respectable set of results, echoed by investor confidence and a stock increase equals a lot of butt hurt haters on this forum which, I assume, is why I see so many posters desperately grabbing for made up sub numbers of old games, making deliberately skewed comparisons against various Eastern pay per minute models etc in a sad effort to take the shine off a positive set of results
Where are all those haters that told us it was fact, the game was going to be dead by now....
Anyone even remember GW2?
Driz
You should go check then, because you are wrong.
They actually do have over 6k playing on most of them.
I dont particularly like the game either, but the ludicrous notion of "I dont like the game therefore the numbers are a lie and no one plays it" is rampant around here.
You think so? Hmmm, perhaps. It just seems like $300+ million is a lot of bananas.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
the game has obviously made well over 300 mil in revenue, but i doubt they are in the black yet. Still have to pay people and run the game
Agree that SWTOR is unlikely to have recovered its costs yet. What JR, ex-EA CEO actually said was that the game would be profitable but nothing to write home about with 1M subs not 500k. And in another interview that they had assumed 1.2M.
Something under 500k: a good number - that was how many subs they said they needed to break even previously. Since then they have reduced the size of their team so they should be recouping some of those costs.
What they mean by doubling revenue though - who knows. From when to when? Are they talking daily, monthly, quarterly? Its a good sounding statement but may simply mean that prior to it going F2P things were "poor" and since then they are "better".
Challenges ahead:
Keeping people on board. The sub number may be inflated by the launch of the expansion. F2P folk subscribing at the reduced cost. Perfectly good move on EA's part of course but will they stay subscribed or go back to being F2P?
1.7M F2P accounts number - very low for F2P. At odds with the James Olsen 2M number as well - was he rounding the number up! And who knows, when he said 2nd biggest maybe they had more than 500k subs and since then they have lost subs! Or maybe this simply means that numbers JO states need to be treated with caution. 1.7M is less than 2M; under 500k is less than Eve's latest announced subs. However:
Overall: solid subscriber numbers; poor F2P numbers. Will it persuade EA to stay focused on "xpacs" as well as cash shop fluff? Stay focused on their subscribers?
It sure is. Has it been confirmed they've spent 300M+, though? If so, then yeah, it's very unlikely. I always thought they didn't spend that much, that it was more 200M.
How they've set themselves up now after all the huge layoffs, they seem geared to stay just on the right side of income/expense. I couldn't help but imagine them going "Whew, let's just make sure we're making profits on a monthly basis now".
It's just a hunch, though, and not based on actual math with valid numbers. :P
god the internet is such a cesspool for mis- and dis-information.
no, they said that they needed to make 500k subs to make the game profitable.
http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/7/31/3207521/star-wars-the-old-republic-subscribers-fall-to-under-one-million
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
500k would make the game a total failure. Anything below the acceptable after tax IRR is failure; break even numbers are a total failure.
Additionally, the $200 million to make the game is probably an understatement. I don't believe we've got the exact numbers for the expenses allocated to the game, but there's also a lot of overhead at the company that isn't going to be attributed to the game that the game was expected to cover. I am doubtful they've made their money back, or if they have, I doubt they've made much on the game.
I agree with everyone who says the game is getting better. I'm currently subbed; I have fun playing it. However, I'm only subbed because some friends resubbed and I'd be playing something else otherwise. The game is not very good even with all the improvements. The F2P set up is a joke. Denial of hotbars has got to be the craziest F2P restriction ever. The classes are grossly unbalanced. You really have to wonder what the Devs were / are thinking much of the time.
The game was horrendous at release and got worse overtime. That's why there is so much hate for the game. Ilum was terrible. It got worse every time they tried to fix it until they pretty much abandoned the PvP aspect of it. The game ran very poorly on systems it shouldn't have for a long time. I don't know if this was ever fixed or not. I would say the whole multiplayer aspect of the game wasn't well done, but to be fair, that's typical of most MMOs now. We don't have add ons, we don't have macros. For a long time, SWTOR had the worst auction house in any MMO I'd ever played which was appalling considering how long auctions houses have been out in the MMO world. I found all the PvE uninspiring. I thought it was too easy. Others thought it was hard. This may just be a reference disagreement. I've been playing longer than most people and, in my opinion, things were significantly more difficult in the past. Most of the PvP WZs are pretty meh to me. Huttball is fantastic. The story lines are, for the most part, very well done. I'm terrible at leveling. I hate leveling, but I did enjoy it in this game and got two characters to 50 early on (which for me is amazing- I normally just grind one out and then am done forever; I hate alts). However, my perception was that the leveling was focused on at the expense of the endgame.
In spite of its flaws, it can still be a fun game, but I think that comes primarily from the environment. It's Star Wars. Star Wars is fun. The game, however, is subpar. It's missing many basic elements that we've come to expect from MMOs. They have made significant progress in addressing these issues, but it is really late in the game to be doing that and will probably never recover.
I enjoy watching the negative nancies squirm at these numbers, and who knows how much cash the cash shop is generating off the f2p and sub players.
Hey, bitter worts, guess what? This game is going to continue on being a success, and you guys will continue to hate. Who wins? You're still on these forums more than a year later complaining about a game you don't play because your lives are empty, good job.
Game A has 1 billion subscribers.
Game B has 200 thousand subscribers.
Person logs into Game A and runs across maybe one player in game while questing.
Person logs into Game B and runs into 3 people while questing and they form a group together.
Which game is really the better game to be playing? Game A or game B?
Numbers only mean something if you personally see them... otherwise they are just numbers on paper and nothing more.
name one
Again, I don't even personally like the game very much but people post some ridiculous trash
This is interesting. I can log into SWTOR and basically get into many different types of groups on just about any planet. Many planets have multiple instances. f2p has all made this happen. So what that I'm not a sub. Someone is spending the money I would have on unlocks that I can get through the GTN. Either way EA is getting money from me in one form or another.
IF SWTOR is option B I'd rather play that instead of A. Now if there was a "C" where there are 1 billion subs, and there are tons of 1 person groups everywhere and "barrens chat" is running rampant. I'd still rather play "B" since the basic noobs and haters are not playing and as such I'll have a much better playing experience.
So as someone has stated earlier. The game is expanding, Yeah there may be some discrepancy in the "published numbers" but it still does not discount that the game is getting better. So I just have to laugh at all the nay-sayers that have been bashing the game for over a year, touting the wonders of a dead game as the direct competition, still are here bashing ANY "good" news that they just cannot accept
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Macros. Add ons. Server transfers. "World PvP" (large scale PvP). It was missing more at release.
What are they identifying as a "subscriber"? Only people paying $15? I highly doubt such a terrible game has that many people paying a subscription per month. Especially when EA is known for bending the truth on a daily basis to extreme levels.
Also, 1.7 million free players just means 1.7 million people REGISTERED new accounts. It doesn't mean they still play.
Measure the average unique logins for both subscribers & F2P players for a month and then we'll talk. EA won't do that because it'd ruin the lie they have been building.
I don't squirm at the numbers, only the people like you who do not get what the numbers mean and think the numbers are great.
These numbers would be great for many other P2P MMOs, but SWTOR needs a whole lot more as EA said that they needed 500K subs to break even. If Vanguard needed that many it would not have survived long, the reason Vanguard suvived many years as P2P is because it did not need many players.
When you look at the numbers of some other F2P MMOs, these are pathetic in comparison. Clone Wars Adventures got 8 million accounts in the first year, and 10 million by the 2nd year.
Unless they come up with some awesome new content, then game is just going to continue to drop subs. There is no awesome new content coming as of yet.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Hows that quote go: "Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated?"
I'm happy for the Star Wars crowd. Its a good game, not great, but solid game with some really nice aspects to it.
But the game aside, it sure seems like FTP is the right choice for mmo's these days. Even Freemium models work. These new games coming out thinking about subs should really think twice.
There are loads listed in this thread for starters
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012