Originally posted by Torgrim 1.7 million FTP accounts, that figure is quite interesting to dwell on, don't you think.
Oh wow, I thought it was 1.7 million players, with 500k being subscribers. It's 2.2 million players, with 500k being subscribers. That's a crazy number of players.
Well, the 1.7 doesn't represent active players, just accounts. Its like GW2, it sold 3 mil, but that doesn't mean it has 3 mil players.
That are news accounts created after F2P transition, what about accounts of players who stopped to play and came back with F2P, are they counted as new accounts or old? If old, there are more than 1.7 millions F2P accounts.
I made F2P account for kicks back when extended trial launched (did have a sub then beside it to get "free coins" and to wrap up some stories).
Besides, you cant be sure what all has EA cramped up in those 1,7 million, they have a tendency to do "creative math".
"we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," sure sounds like old players (before November) are counted as "added to "free model service". Also, anyone who unsubscribes and doesnt play any more is "added to free model service". But as i say, its EA so it can be....anything really.
Originally posted by bubaluba Wait a sec! SWTOR is now most popular mmo after wow ! Nice job
in what universe?
and if it was,,dont you think, they should turn some of that popularity into PAYING CUSTOMERS?
they just admitted to having roughly the same amount of subs, as EVE
that would mean, that EVE is also nr 2 after wow
but i dont recall cccp boasting about it
EVE might have over 500 k subs but we all know that most of players have 2 to 3 accounts. Even I subbed to check it out... there was so much hype lately about it. Got bored to death after 2 days and they are going to loose 1 sub in the end of May. I was stupid enough to buy 3 month sub LOL.
On other note... with all the crappy MMO release lately, more people will flock to SWTOR as it's getting better with each update and incoming SW7 will drive interest to game. I can see spiked interest already on example of my guild, players who took a break after 6-8 months of playing are coming back and really enjoy it. F2P players are flooding low planets. There is no difference in amount of players at the time the F2P was introduced and now. I like to RP on Tython and Korriban so I am often visitor there. Dromund Kaas and Coruscant have always multiple instances and one holds 200 players each. Makeb continue to have multiple instances, maybe not as many as it was at launch of expansion but it's pretty busy. Fleets have always multiple instances. Game is super active. But than it's a perspective of person who actually plays game every day.
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
a) dobled...from what
b) total active users are up....from what
b) doesnt mention profit...at all
c) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no
And yet again we can see how renaming free content update to paid "major digital expansion" can be used as marketing that you actually make money on. Man, im glad EA isnt operating my other MMO(s).
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke
it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round
if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen
from them yet?
and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"
it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion
lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
a) dobled...from what
b) total active users are up....from what
b) doesnt mention profit...at all
c) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no
And yet again we can see how renaming free content update to paid "major digital expansion" can be used as marketing that you actually make money on. Man, im glad EA isnt operating my other MMO(s).
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke
it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round
if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen
from them yet?
and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"
it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion
lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
For a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall
By SWTORs measures, they could have slapped 5 arbitrary levels, call it "major expansion" and put a price tag on it
Also, it would be much less a problem, since most of endgame stuff in LOTRO scales to levels already, so you wouldnt end with 1 new raid as endgame
Originally posted by bubaluba Wait a sec! SWTOR is now most popular mmo after wow ! Nice job
in what universe?
and if it was,,dont you think, they should turn some of that popularity into PAYING CUSTOMERS?
they just admitted to having roughly the same amount of subs, as EVE
that would mean, that EVE is also nr 2 after wow
but i dont recall cccp boasting about it
EVE might have over 500 k subs but we all know that most of players have 2 to 3 accounts. Even I subbed to check it out... there was so much hype lately about it. Got bored to death after 2 days and they are going to loose 1 sub in the end of May. I was stupid enough to buy 3 month sub LOL.
On other note... with all the crappy MMO release lately, more people will flock to SWTOR as it's getting better with each update and incoming SW7 will drive interest to game. I can see spiked interest already on example of my guild, players who took a break after 6-8 months of playing are coming back and really enjoy it. F2P players are flooding low planets. There is no difference in amount of players at the time the F2P was introduced and now. I like to RP on Tython and Korriban so I am often visitor there. Dromund Kaas and Coruscant have always multiple instances and one holds 200 players each. Makeb continue to have multiple instances, maybe not as many as it was at launch of expansion but it's pretty busy. Fleets have always multiple instances. Game is super active. But than it's a perspective of person who actually plays game every day.
EVE was never designed to be mainstream,,its a niche game for a small base
swtor was designed to be the mother of all mmos,,remember the old prelaunch dreams?
10-25 mio players? 100s of planets?
fact is, that EVE is swtors closest competitor,,an old niche game, without IP
if you consider the resources, that was put into swtor,,the IP, the money, and the workhours..
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
a) dobled...from what
b) total active users are up....from what
b) doesnt mention profit...at all
c) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no
And yet again we can see how renaming free content update to paid "major digital expansion" can be used as marketing that you actually make money on. Man, im glad EA isnt operating my other MMO(s).
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke
it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round
if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen
from them yet?
and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"
it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion
lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
For a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall
By SWTORs measures, they could have slapped 5 arbitrary levels, call it "major expansion" and put a price tag on it
Also, it would be much less a problem, since most of endgame stuff in LOTRO scales to levels already, so you wouldnt end with 1 new raid as endgame
I have lifetime sub in LOTRO. I am LOTR long time fan, but this game is right now so boring it's simply painful. I don't give a damn for the new expansion there... it's just additional same old grindfest.
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
a) dobled...from what
b) total active users are up....from what
b) doesnt mention profit...at all
c) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no
And yet again we can see how renaming free content update to paid "major digital expansion" can be used as marketing that you actually make money on. Man, im glad EA isnt operating my other MMO(s).
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke
it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round
if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen
from them yet?
and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"
it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion
lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
For a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall
By SWTORs measures, they could have slapped 5 arbitrary levels, call it "major expansion" and put a price tag on it
Also, it would be much less a problem, since most of endgame stuff in LOTRO scales to levels already, so you wouldnt end with 1 new raid as endgame
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
a) dobled...from what
b) total active users are up....from what
b) doesnt mention profit...at all
c) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no
And yet again we can see how renaming free content update to paid "major digital expansion" can be used as marketing that you actually make money on. Man, im glad EA isnt operating my other MMO(s).
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke
it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round
if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen
from them yet?
and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"
it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion
lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
For a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall
By SWTORs measures, they could have slapped 5 arbitrary levels, call it "major expansion" and put a price tag on it
Also, it would be much less a problem, since most of endgame stuff in LOTRO scales to levels already, so you wouldnt end with 1 new raid as endgame
I have lifetime sub in LOTRO. I am LOTR long time fan, but this game is right now so boring it's simply painful. I don't give a damn for the new expansion there... it's just additional same old grindfest.
And SWTOR is much better since you get (same cutscene) for 95+% of the game? Funny to say this, but LOTRO and SWTOR are VERY similar. As far as gamplay goes, both are faithful WoW clones.
As far as pricing model, Turbine is miles ahead, same as in content (LOTRO still has free content updates + real expansions compared to SWTOR which has paid content updates)
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
The fact that EA didn't include mention of SWTOR in their prepared statement probably suggests that a) its still to early to tell how things are going to pan out and b) the numbers whilst good don't put it in the "stellar success" category.
In reply 1. we are told that "total active users are up". Given the game has gone F2P it would be a disaster if they had gone down!
In 2. however some numbers are given: "subscriptions stabilised at just under 500k". I think this is trying to suggest that the decline in sub numbers levelled out at 500k. More likely, imo, sub numbers have gone back up to just under 500k - the Makeb discount being nearly equal to a 1 month sub.
The reason I say this is that "monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled". If subs were 500k pre-F2P and are still 500k this would mean that the cash shop was bringing in "more than 500k x $15". Seems a lot to me.
More likely scenario: subs were below 500k prior to it going F2P - say 300k; subs are now at 500k, plus some Cash Shop revenue. Something along those lines would double the monthly revenue.
The dangers
a) 1.7M accounts is a very low number for a F2P game. The chunk of cash shop revenue generated by F2P folk paying the nominal sum for preferred status will decline going forward.
b) Keeping the 500k subs - especially if they only came back as subscribers for Makeb. Solution: more (proper) content. Then even if the 500k drops back to 300k, say, there is a chance that they will return. Releases every 6 weeks seem designed to promote this but if they are going to charge $20/$10 every 6 weeks ... essentially makes it a $22.50 per month game. (Which is fine if it gives players what they want.)
Originally posted by Ghavrigg It's too bad such a low quality game has this many people playing. Shows EA they can get away with just about anything.
that is because there are a lot of people that clearly disagree with you that it is low quality.
has nothing to do with EA and more to do with the fact that it is star wars and a lot like KOTOR.
people complain about the mmo elements of this game being generic and i get that but the rest of the game is very much like KOTOR was, linear and story driven and it does it quite well actually IMO
i can think of many low quality mmo's out there that people praise here just because it offers the features people want.
Originally posted by tintilinic Originally posted by Sevenstar61Originally posted by tintilinicOriginally posted by simpliusOriginally posted by tintilinicOriginally posted by Sevenstar61Originally posted by tintilinicAnyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Transcypt from EA conference call: http://seekingalpha.com/article/1412391-electronic-arts-management-discusses-q4-2013-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=1Go to Q&A - page 7 for SWTOR info.Fragments:1.Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.2. As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well. a) dobled...from whatb) total active users are up....from whatb) doesnt mention profit...at allc) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no And yet again we can see how renaming free content update to paid "major digital expansion" can be used as marketing that you actually make money on. Man, im glad EA isnt operating my other MMO(s).yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smokeit reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next roundif this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seenfrom them yet?and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansionlets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the priceFor a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall By SWTORs measures, they could have slapped 5 arbitrary levels, call it "major expansion" and put a price tag on it Also, it would be much less a problem, since most of endgame stuff in LOTRO scales to levels already, so you wouldnt end with 1 new raid as endgame http://www.lotro.com/en/u11I have lifetime sub in LOTRO. I am LOTR long time fan, but this game is right now so boring it's simply painful. I don't give a damn for the new expansion there... it's just additional same old grindfest.And SWTOR is much better since you get (same cutscene) for 95+% of the game? Funny to say this, but LOTRO and SWTOR are VERY similar. As far as gamplay goes, both are faithful WoW clones.
As far as pricing model, Turbine is miles ahead, same as in content (LOTRO still has free content updates + real expansions compared to SWTOR which has paid content updates)
i honestly don't know anyone who plays SWTOR for the end game mmo elements.
everyone i know who plays it, plays it for the stories and maybe a little pvp.
IMO that is what gives this game any kind of longevity, not the end game.
alt making for the stories, is what keeps this game going for me when i play it off and on.
whats funny is i have often read people complaints that SWTOR has no replay value.
its actually got the best replay value out of any MMO i have ever played.
Originally posted by dead2soon I'd probably be more happy for them if they hadn't employed such creative number crunching in the past. Who knows what to believe to be honest. The smoke and mirrors is strong in this one.
This. I'm guessing the release of the xpack that was roughly the same price if u added a sub as if u didn't and in time for the quarterly wasn't a coincidence.
Even though if people actually did that then their sub would have ran out in Feb as I said a few posts ago. Therefore completelly meaningless , unless of course by some miracle those that did then stayed subbed , which just puts tm in the under 500k category.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
A good point but I am pretty sure that the xpac launched on 14th April. for their sub to run out in Feb it would have to have launched in January. It was available to pre-order but I doubt that F2P people would pre-order.
So the possibility that people subbed (or re-subbed) to get the discount is a definite possibility imo.
I have lifetime sub in LOTRO. I am LOTR long time fan, but this game is right now so boring it's simply painful. I don't give a damn for the new expansion there... it's just additional same old grindfest.
And SWTOR is much better since you get (same cutscene) for 95+% of the game? Funny to say this, but LOTRO and SWTOR are VERY similar. As far as gamplay goes, both are faithful WoW clones.
As far as pricing model, Turbine is miles ahead, same as in content (LOTRO still has free content updates + real expansions compared to SWTOR which has paid content updates)
There is one major difference between the two games:
LOTRO did a pretty nice job with Middle Earth itself. Its significantly more immersive than SWTOR. And its feels wide open, as opposed to the claustrophobia of SWTOR
Also LOTRO is a LOT deeper than SWTOR. LOTRO's depth kind of sneaks up on you.
Basically LOTRO is how to do a WoW clone right. SWTOR is how to make a WoW clone while forgetting what made WoW good in the first place
Break even in terms of what? How much it costs to maintain and develop or break even on its initial budget? The game can be profitable on a monthly basis and still be in the red overall.
In any case, you'll be happy to know that 500k subs are only a part of their revenue so you'll have to spin faster if you want to keep painting the game in a bad light all the time. Keep on fighting the man though! I'm going to go level my Bounty Hunter.
Break even in terms of what is a good question.
Way back it was be profitable at 500k; costs ran over and it became break even at 500k and substantially (or meaningfully) but nothing to write home about at 1M. Then 500k but still not good enough. Clearly it was all about whether SWTOR would recover its development costs.
12 months on the day-to-day costs must be lower. Staff have been reduced. So if the development costs - and the severance costs! - have been written off then maybe the launch of F2P was essentially a fresh start; a clean slate.
And since then? "Revenues have doubled" doesn't mean much - good news for sure - but it doesn't say anything and is a statement intended to reassure investors.
500k subscribers "today" is good but is it inflated by people who subbed just to buy Makeb (which launched 14th April). Maybe not but it must be a possibility (and maybe they will stay).
At the moment I suspect SWTOR is (or could become) a stable subscription based game. Maybe not the profit EA want but that's another question.
I don't see the F2P as being in good shape. 1.7M accounts is a very poor number. The Sims Online is being closed by EA because Daily Active Users - active accounts in other words - dropped to 6M. Six million. F2P revenue needs a lot of active players and a regular supply of new accounts.
For a current example check out EQ2: it introduced a F2P option; glorious press releases etc. about account numbers and revenue and now? Join and get automatic gold status - what was previously a charge. F2P games - frequently - offer greater and greater rewards because it get harder and harder to retain existing accounts / attract new accounts.
My concern is that EA focus on trying to attract F2P accounts and neglect subscribers. Hopefully they will see those as "the core audience" and "look after" them accordingly.
Out of curiosity why has Eve-Online been bought up in the thread several times? It's taken the game nearly 8 years to get where it is now. But many of the comments make it sound like Eve-Online started with that amount, and held it all this time. Plus it ignores that fact that from my understanding quite a few of the players have multiple accounts. Also ignoring the fact, that the game has pretty much no real competition.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by dead2soon I'd probably be more happy for them if they hadn't employed such creative number crunching in the past. Who knows what to believe to be honest. The smoke and mirrors is strong in this one.
This. I'm guessing the release of the xpack that was roughly the same price if u added a sub as if u didn't and in time for the quarterly wasn't a coincidence.
Even though if people actually did that then their sub would have ran out in Feb as I said a few posts ago. Therefore completelly meaningless , unless of course by some miracle those that did then stayed subbed , which just puts tm in the under 500k category.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
A good point but I am pretty sure that the xpac launched on 14th April. for their sub to run out in Feb it would have to have launched in January. It was available to pre-order but I doubt that F2P people would pre-order.
So the possibility that people subbed (or re-subbed) to get the discount is a definite possibility imo.
O I see I was talking about the early access pre-order people, but the next set that just got the hutt holo and pet etc could have been included in it too of course , so yeah they may well have subbed recently to get it. Mind you someone else mentioned in another forum that this earning meeting doesn't even include Makeb that's next quarter. it's all swings and roundabouts
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Originally posted by tintilinic Anyone has anyithing actually....official on SWTOR, since official reports that i have read do NOT mention SWTOR in any way.
Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up. We continue to deliver new game updates for the community every 6 weeks, helping drive subscribers and free-to-play consumers to the game.
2.
As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was introduced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service, and the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under 0.5 million. The really interesting thing that's happening inside the service right now is monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled since we introduced the free-to-play option. And as we look forward, we're going to continually invest in new content for the service for players every 6 weeks or so. We just recently released Rise of the Hutt Cartel as our first major digital expansion, and it's reviewed extremely well, and it's selling very well.
The fact that EA didn't include mention of SWTOR in their prepared statement probably suggests that a) its still to early to tell how things are going to pan out and b) the numbers whilst good don't put it in the "stellar success" category.
Of course they did:
"Second, extra content and free-to-play contributed $224 million, up 45%, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, and solid results from Star Wars: The Old Republic and Bejeweled Blitz."
"Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members andtotal active users are up."
Clearly active users is not the same as accounts made.
For those of you trying to claim that they'll always say everything is great (which they're not legally allowed to do but regardless) they also said:
"In the quarter, we saw solid sales for SimCity -- most notably from direct downloads. However, Crysis 3 and Dead Space 3 came in below our forecast."
Xfire shows SWTOR as the 10th most active game and 3rd in MMOs behind WoW and GW2. Torstatus shows servers averaging heavy status overall on a nightly basis.
Keep spinning guys but the game is doing well right now.
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I made F2P account for kicks back when extended trial launched (did have a sub then beside it to get "free coins" and to wrap up some stories).
Besides, you cant be sure what all has EA cramped up in those 1,7 million, they have a tendency to do "creative math".
"we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service," sure sounds like old players (before November) are counted as "added to "free model service". Also, anyone who unsubscribes and doesnt play any more is "added to free model service". But as i say, its EA so it can be....anything really.
in what universe?
and if it was,,dont you think, they should turn some of that popularity into PAYING CUSTOMERS?
they just admitted to having roughly the same amount of subs, as EVE
that would mean, that EVE is also nr 2 after wow
but i dont recall cccp boasting about it
EVE might have over 500 k subs but we all know that most of players have 2 to 3 accounts. Even I subbed to check it out... there was so much hype lately about it. Got bored to death after 2 days and they are going to loose 1 sub in the end of May. I was stupid enough to buy 3 month sub LOL.
On other note... with all the crappy MMO release lately, more people will flock to SWTOR as it's getting better with each update and incoming SW7 will drive interest to game. I can see spiked interest already on example of my guild, players who took a break after 6-8 months of playing are coming back and really enjoy it. F2P players are flooding low planets. There is no difference in amount of players at the time the F2P was introduced and now. I like to RP on Tython and Korriban so I am often visitor there. Dromund Kaas and Coruscant have always multiple instances and one holds 200 players each. Makeb continue to have multiple instances, maybe not as many as it was at launch of expansion but it's pretty busy. Fleets have always multiple instances. Game is super active. But than
it's a perspective of person who actually plays game every day.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke
it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round
if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen
from them yet?
and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever"
it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion
lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
For a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall
By SWTORs measures, they could have slapped 5 arbitrary levels, call it "major expansion" and put a price tag on it
Also, it would be much less a problem, since most of endgame stuff in LOTRO scales to levels already, so you wouldnt end with 1 new raid as endgame
http://www.lotro.com/en/u11
EVE was never designed to be mainstream,,its a niche game for a small base
swtor was designed to be the mother of all mmos,,remember the old prelaunch dreams?
10-25 mio players? 100s of planets?
fact is, that EVE is swtors closest competitor,,an old niche game, without IP
if you consider the resources, that was put into swtor,,the IP, the money, and the workhours..
this is failure
I have lifetime sub in LOTRO. I am LOTR long time fan, but this game is right now so boring it's simply painful. I don't give a damn for the new expansion there... it's just additional same old grindfest.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
and look at STO,,theyre giving away the romulan faction to ALL players
they have, wisely, chosen NOT to increase the level cap though
instead, we might get 3 full levelling paths,,,one for each race
instead of the 1½, we have had since launch
And SWTOR is much better since you get (same cutscene) for 95+% of the game? Funny to say this, but LOTRO and SWTOR are VERY similar. As far as gamplay goes, both are faithful WoW clones.
As far as pricing model, Turbine is miles ahead, same as in content (LOTRO still has free content updates + real expansions compared to SWTOR which has paid content updates)
any mmo will become grindy and boring after X years
some eastern mmos manage to do it within hours
again, wow is a shining example,,their expansions didnt only expand
they also revamped some of the lower level content, making a new character viable every time
i still miss wow,,i would play it , if they hadnt butchered the talent system
The fact that EA didn't include mention of SWTOR in their prepared statement probably suggests that a) its still to early to tell how things are going to pan out and b) the numbers whilst good don't put it in the "stellar success" category.
In reply 1. we are told that "total active users are up". Given the game has gone F2P it would be a disaster if they had gone down!
In 2. however some numbers are given: "subscriptions stabilised at just under 500k". I think this is trying to suggest that the decline in sub numbers levelled out at 500k. More likely, imo, sub numbers have gone back up to just under 500k - the Makeb discount being nearly equal to a 1 month sub.
The reason I say this is that "monthly average revenue for the game has more than doubled". If subs were 500k pre-F2P and are still 500k this would mean that the cash shop was bringing in "more than 500k x $15". Seems a lot to me.
More likely scenario: subs were below 500k prior to it going F2P - say 300k; subs are now at 500k, plus some Cash Shop revenue. Something along those lines would double the monthly revenue.
The dangers
a) 1.7M accounts is a very low number for a F2P game. The chunk of cash shop revenue generated by F2P folk paying the nominal sum for preferred status will decline going forward.
b) Keeping the 500k subs - especially if they only came back as subscribers for Makeb. Solution: more (proper) content. Then even if the 500k drops back to 300k, say, there is a chance that they will return. Releases every 6 weeks seem designed to promote this but if they are going to charge $20/$10 every 6 weeks ... essentially makes it a $22.50 per month game. (Which is fine if it gives players what they want.)
that is because there are a lot of people that clearly disagree with you that it is low quality.
has nothing to do with EA and more to do with the fact that it is star wars and a lot like KOTOR.
people complain about the mmo elements of this game being generic and i get that but the rest of the game is very much like KOTOR was, linear and story driven and it does it quite well actually IMO
i can think of many low quality mmo's out there that people praise here just because it offers the features people want.
that does not make a game "quality" in my mind.
a) dobled...from what b) total active users are up....from what b) doesnt mention profit...at all c) "its selling very well" ha ha, numberz? no
yea , they try to spin it as success, by blowing a lot of smoke it reminds me of the losing side of an election, trying to set themselves up for the next round if this game is doing as "great" , as they say,,why is the latest sub number the lowest we have seen from them yet? and makeb.."the biggest FREE patch in any mmo,,ever" it took them over a year to finish it, and then they decide to make it into a paid expansion lets see , when they have the next content ready,,and the price
For a comaprison to Makeb, LOTRO will add few new areas (region) in update 11, with new class skillS, of course, free to subs. REAL expansion comes in fall
I have lifetime sub in LOTRO. I am LOTR long time fan, but this game is right now so boring it's simply painful. I don't give a damn for the new expansion there... it's just additional same old grindfest.
And SWTOR is much better since you get (same cutscene) for 95+% of the game? Funny to say this, but LOTRO and SWTOR are VERY similar. As far as gamplay goes, both are faithful WoW clones.
As far as pricing model, Turbine is miles ahead, same as in content (LOTRO still has free content updates + real expansions compared to SWTOR which has paid content updates)
i honestly don't know anyone who plays SWTOR for the end game mmo elements.
everyone i know who plays it, plays it for the stories and maybe a little pvp.
IMO that is what gives this game any kind of longevity, not the end game.
alt making for the stories, is what keeps this game going for me when i play it off and on.
whats funny is i have often read people complaints that SWTOR has no replay value.
its actually got the best replay value out of any MMO i have ever played.
JMO of course.
A good point but I am pretty sure that the xpac launched on 14th April. for their sub to run out in Feb it would have to have launched in January. It was available to pre-order but I doubt that F2P people would pre-order.
So the possibility that people subbed (or re-subbed) to get the discount is a definite possibility imo.
There is one major difference between the two games:
LOTRO did a pretty nice job with Middle Earth itself. Its significantly more immersive than SWTOR. And its feels wide open, as opposed to the claustrophobia of SWTOR
Also LOTRO is a LOT deeper than SWTOR. LOTRO's depth kind of sneaks up on you.
Basically LOTRO is how to do a WoW clone right. SWTOR is how to make a WoW clone while forgetting what made WoW good in the first place
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Break even in terms of what is a good question.
Way back it was be profitable at 500k; costs ran over and it became break even at 500k and substantially (or meaningfully) but nothing to write home about at 1M. Then 500k but still not good enough. Clearly it was all about whether SWTOR would recover its development costs.
12 months on the day-to-day costs must be lower. Staff have been reduced. So if the development costs - and the severance costs! - have been written off then maybe the launch of F2P was essentially a fresh start; a clean slate.
And since then? "Revenues have doubled" doesn't mean much - good news for sure - but it doesn't say anything and is a statement intended to reassure investors.
500k subscribers "today" is good but is it inflated by people who subbed just to buy Makeb (which launched 14th April). Maybe not but it must be a possibility (and maybe they will stay).
At the moment I suspect SWTOR is (or could become) a stable subscription based game. Maybe not the profit EA want but that's another question.
I don't see the F2P as being in good shape. 1.7M accounts is a very poor number. The Sims Online is being closed by EA because Daily Active Users - active accounts in other words - dropped to 6M. Six million. F2P revenue needs a lot of active players and a regular supply of new accounts.
For a current example check out EQ2: it introduced a F2P option; glorious press releases etc. about account numbers and revenue and now? Join and get automatic gold status - what was previously a charge. F2P games - frequently - offer greater and greater rewards because it get harder and harder to retain existing accounts / attract new accounts.
My concern is that EA focus on trying to attract F2P accounts and neglect subscribers. Hopefully they will see those as "the core audience" and "look after" them accordingly.
if they do,,,BLAM!! TITAN LAUNCH!!
every year before that, will only add to titans development time
i think blizzard feel confident
Out of curiosity why has Eve-Online been bought up in the thread several times? It's taken the game nearly 8 years to get where it is now. But many of the comments make it sound like Eve-Online started with that amount, and held it all this time. Plus it ignores that fact that from my understanding quite a few of the players have multiple accounts. Also ignoring the fact, that the game has pretty much no real competition.
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O I see I was talking about the early access pre-order people, but the next set that just got the hutt holo and pet etc could have been included in it too of course , so yeah they may well have subbed recently to get it. Mind you someone else mentioned in another forum that this earning meeting doesn't even include Makeb that's next quarter. it's all swings and roundabouts
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
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Of course they did:
"Second, extra content and free-to-play contributed $224 million, up 45%, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, and solid results from Star Wars: The Old Republic and Bejeweled Blitz."
"Our Star Wars: The Old Republic game is a combination of free-to-play and subscription business models. Both models are performing well. The game has attracted new free-to-play members and total active users are up."
Clearly active users is not the same as accounts made.
For those of you trying to claim that they'll always say everything is great (which they're not legally allowed to do but regardless) they also said:
"In the quarter, we saw solid sales for SimCity -- most notably from direct downloads. However, Crysis 3 and Dead Space 3 came in below our forecast."
Xfire shows SWTOR as the 10th most active game and 3rd in MMOs behind WoW and GW2. Torstatus shows servers averaging heavy status overall on a nightly basis.
Keep spinning guys but the game is doing well right now.
Not really, EA doesn't care what the number is.
Their SHAREHOLDERS though do; which as a public trading company is all EA cares about.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-shares-skyrocket-6408102
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.