It still doesn't really boil down to player skill. The best pvpers are all about the same skill but when you can predict the outcome based on what classes they pick and the only real upsets are when someone makes a mistake, it's still not really a "skill" based game.
That's the problem with every stat/gear based pvp system. It always removes some/all player skill.
Given that top rated players are in the same gear, making the correct decisions with the information available to you at the moment requires skill and experience. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise. Perhaps you are working under the assumption that skill is always twitched based or something (which matters in WoW, but not nearly as much as it does in, say, Counter Strike).
I'm also not sure why you think that there is a problem with a system that punishes people with a loss when they make mistakes. How does that remove skill exactly?
Where did I say a system that punishes people for making a mistake removes skill ?
What I said was if rogue sorc pali always beat warrior, rogue, priest ( classes are an example picked at random )when they're at the same skill lvl unless someone on team one makes a mistake you've removed skill from the equation. That's the problem with gear/stat pvp.
Back in my arena days the finals and top ranked teams were often the same make ups. When you'd start a team ppl would say cool you could probably get to xxxx rank with those classes. And sure enough...we'd cap out about that rank. Not what I'd consider skill based pvp.
when you consider non-mmo based pvp has much more to do with players than gear/stats it's hard to really consider mmo pvp anything more than just gear grinding.
There's a lot of glad viable comps. There's not very many comps that completely hardcounter another in 3s, 5s, or RBG's. If you're a good player and you have good teammates, you can play pretty much whatever comp you like and get high rated.
It still doesn't really boil down to player skill. The best pvpers are all about the same skill but when you can predict the outcome based on what classes they pick and the only real upsets are when someone makes a mistake, it's still not really a "skill" based game.
That's the problem with every stat/gear based pvp system. It always removes some/all player skill.
Given that top rated players are in the same gear, making the correct decisions with the information available to you at the moment requires skill and experience. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise. Perhaps you are working under the assumption that skill is always twitched based or something (which matters in WoW, but not nearly as much as it does in, say, Counter Strike).
I'm also not sure why you think that there is a problem with a system that punishes people with a loss when they make mistakes. How does that remove skill exactly?
Where did I say a system that punishes people for making a mistake removes skill ?
What I said was if rogue sorc pali always beat warrior, rogue, priest ( classes are an example picked at random )when they're at the same skill lvl unless someone on team one makes a mistake you've removed skill from the equation. That's the problem with gear/stat pvp.
Back in my arena days the finals and top ranked teams were often the same make ups. When you'd start a team ppl would say cool you could probably get to xxxx rank with those classes. And sure enough...we'd cap out about that rank. Not what I'd consider skill based pvp.
when you consider non-mmo based pvp has much more to do with players than gear/stats it's hard to really consider mmo pvp anything more than just gear grinding.
Oh, yeah. Comp imbalances are very real in WoW. Some seasons have fewer viable top player comps and some have more, but I just misunderstood you about that. It's like trying to play a Monk and get Gladiator last season. It will never happen no matter how good you are.
However, if you were a 2400 rated Monk, you were hot shit at playing Monk. So it's all relative. The more experienced players understand that some comps/classes are more effective than others. That doesn't mean it takes any less skill to be effective with whatever you play.
I think my main problem with WoW PvP is the ridiculous commitment it takes just to enter a rated arena. I have a lot of the classes max level from my various stints in WoW and so I have a lot of options when I want to start an arena season. People that like to stick to one character and don't want to grind up level and gear to get there are just SOL if their class happens to be at the bottom of the pile. Or really, they just don't have as much top end potential in the rating system as other classes.
Nothing you've said really means anything takes less "skill." If anything, playing one of the less effective classes in a less effective comp requires more skill to achieve similar ratings to those that play better comps/classes.
Comments
There's a lot of glad viable comps. There's not very many comps that completely hardcounter another in 3s, 5s, or RBG's. If you're a good player and you have good teammates, you can play pretty much whatever comp you like and get high rated.
Oh, yeah. Comp imbalances are very real in WoW. Some seasons have fewer viable top player comps and some have more, but I just misunderstood you about that. It's like trying to play a Monk and get Gladiator last season. It will never happen no matter how good you are.
However, if you were a 2400 rated Monk, you were hot shit at playing Monk. So it's all relative. The more experienced players understand that some comps/classes are more effective than others. That doesn't mean it takes any less skill to be effective with whatever you play.
I think my main problem with WoW PvP is the ridiculous commitment it takes just to enter a rated arena. I have a lot of the classes max level from my various stints in WoW and so I have a lot of options when I want to start an arena season. People that like to stick to one character and don't want to grind up level and gear to get there are just SOL if their class happens to be at the bottom of the pile. Or really, they just don't have as much top end potential in the rating system as other classes.
Nothing you've said really means anything takes less "skill." If anything, playing one of the less effective classes in a less effective comp requires more skill to achieve similar ratings to those that play better comps/classes.