Horizontal progression sounds great on paper, but in practice it just ends up being a very limited form of vertical progression (all the downsides with none of the upsides). You'll always end up with some skills being more effective than others, so the wide range of "options" you have for your character really aren't that wide of range.
At best, you have a system with few options so that all options are equally viable and balanced. GW2 works like this once you hit max. Unfortunately, it makes the classes feel very generic and boring.
So yeah, while I agree with your points on paper, I don't think it works well in game design.
Originally posted by Eir_S Games don't "need" to adhere to any rules. In the past year, people have started realizing this. GW2 is doing fine, and the more variety the better. If you like gear progression, there are always games out there that cater to that type of player, but if you don't, there are companies that realize this too. People who state an MMO has to be one way or another... well that argument was proven wrong anyway.
Games need to adhere to economics, just like any other products.
After playing gw2 I prefer vertical progression more than ever
And so what that vertical progression locks out players from content, etc.? They should work off to be on same level as me, gear, level, skill wise. For me is more pro than con
p.s.: grind/farm is something I expect and want in my mmorpg.
and the number 1 recent why those 10 good reasons failed to change the way MMO is designed .....
People like vertical progression, and the skinner box works.
You're making the false assumption that lateral progression isn't also a "skinner box".
If a game involves any rewards whatsoever (from a new piece of gear, to the delight of exploration, to simply experiencing a nice scenic overlook,) it exhibits the same traits that Skinner's experiements measured.
No game escapes this, because if you managed to somehow make a game which was wholly unrewarding nobody would play it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I play MMORPG's and RPG's in general primarily for their vertical progression. Once that comes to a halt, if there's nothing to do with my great god-like abilities like fight other people for territory such as in EVE, DAOC, or DF:UW, then there's really no point to playing.
Back in the 80's and 90's we called games with vertical progression RPGS, and games without it Adventure games, the latter pretty much all dying off by the end of the 90's.
People like vertical progression, they just start getting tired when there's nothing to do with it, so then the hamster wheel of gear grinding seems to come up, make harder content to get better gear, to conquer harder content, rinse and repeat.
Sure, seems like some folks really enjoy this, (but not for all that long in many cases) while others prefer to have something to do with their powers.
OP's suggestion makes for a giant adventure game, and not one I'm interested in. Just like real life, my games need to have a sense of growth and progression, and getting things like better looking (but not more powerful) clothes just doesn't really do it for me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
and the number 1 recent why those 10 good reasons failed to change the way MMO is designed .....
People like vertical progression, and the skinner box works.
You're making the false assumption that lateral progression isn't also a "skinner box".
If a game involves any rewards whatsoever (from a new piece of gear, to the delight of exploration, to simply experiencing a nice scenic overlook,) it exhibits the same traits that Skinner's experiements measured.
No game escapes this, because if you managed to somehow make a game which was wholly unrewarding nobody would play it.
hah if you have same satisfaction from exploring random places like from new op gear .. than lol but everyone is different with different taste
I play MMORPG's and RPG's in general primarily for their vertical progression. Once that comes to a halt, if there's nothing to do with my great god-like abilities like fight other people for territory such as in EVE, DAOC, or DF:UW, then there's really no point to playing.
Back in the 80's and 90's we called games with vertical progression RPGS, and games without it Adventure games, the latter pretty much all dying off by the end of the 90's.
People like vertical progression, they just start getting tired when there's nothing to do with it, so then the hamster wheel of gear grinding seems to come up, make harder content to get better gear, to conquer harder content, rinse and repeat.
Sure, seems like some folks really enjoy this, (but not for all that long in many cases) while others prefer to have something to do with their powers.
OP's suggestion makes for a giant adventure game, and not one I'm interested in. Just like real life, my games need to have a sense of growth and progression, and getting things like better looking (but not more powerful) clothes just doesn't really do it for me.
I agree with this. Lessons have been learned in the past about vertical progression but younger people think it's new so here we go. It's why we get a new version of the three musketeers movies every 15 to 20 years. Kids haven't seen it so it must be original.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Dahkoht The most amusing thing is how people in this thread can't fathom all games don't have to be the same , and just because you don't like never ending games and continual leveling that your preference is "right."
Yeah .. that is why the OP is wrong in saying "MMOs do not need vertical progression" since it is one option, and a popular one.
Thank you for pointing out that it is wrong for the OP to make such a general over-sweeping statement.
I agree with this. Lessons have been learned in the past about vertical progression but younger people think it's new so here we go. It's why we get a new version of the three musketeers movies every 15 to 20 years. Kids haven't seen it so it must be original.
What does originality have to do with anything?
How many times have we seen batman on the movie screen? People watch it not because it is new, but because it is entertaining.
You don't have to do something brand new to be entertaining.
I play MMORPG's and RPG's in general primarily for their vertical progression. Once that comes to a halt, if there's nothing to do with my great god-like abilities like fight other people for territory such as in EVE, DAOC, or DF:UW, then there's really no point to playing.
Back in the 80's and 90's we called games with vertical progression RPGS, and games without it Adventure games, the latter pretty much all dying off by the end of the 90's.
People like vertical progression, they just start getting tired when there's nothing to do with it, so then the hamster wheel of gear grinding seems to come up, make harder content to get better gear, to conquer harder content, rinse and repeat.
Sure, seems like some folks really enjoy this, (but not for all that long in many cases) while others prefer to have something to do with their powers.
OP's suggestion makes for a giant adventure game, and not one I'm interested in. Just like real life, my games need to have a sense of growth and progression, and getting things like better looking (but not more powerful) clothes just doesn't really do it for me.
I really want to highlight that point, as it's one of the best observations I've seen made here in a while. It's a simple statement, but there's a lot to think about from it, and how it relates to modern RPG's.
I agree with this. Lessons have been learned in the past about vertical progression but younger people think it's new so here we go. It's why we get a new version of the three musketeers movies every 15 to 20 years. Kids haven't seen it so it must be original.
What does originality have to do with anything?
How many times have we seen batman on the movie screen? People watch it not because it is new, but because it is entertaining.
You don't have to do something brand new to be entertaining.
It has to do with what I find boring. It was a personal opinion. VP is boring FOR ME. You can love it for all I care. We are giving opinions not debating.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I prefer vertical progression alongside horizontal progression, but of course on this website having a moderate approach and offering players both formats just won't work.
I agree with this. Lessons have been learned in the past about vertical progression but younger people think it's new so here we go. It's why we get a new version of the three musketeers movies every 15 to 20 years. Kids haven't seen it so it must be original.
What does originality have to do with anything?
How many times have we seen batman on the movie screen? People watch it not because it is new, but because it is entertaining.
You don't have to do something brand new to be entertaining.
Boring is still boring. Lessons learned from old rpgs have shown which type of progression people prefer. That can't mean you and other can't like it but that doesn't mean you can claim the majority of the player base.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
There are pros and cons to each, I'd prefer for games to limit vertical progression, but there are entertaining ways for stronger and weaker players to interact if you design them, and horizontal progression can often times be far more powerful than vertical progression. Sure your stats don't increase, but you learn to use weapons with longer range, combos which double your damage, riding so you have an immutable mobility advantage, or flying so you have reach control. Vertical development may turn out cheap where your just not taking damage from new players, but horizontal development can lead to you dodging 10X more, or hitting 10X as many foes with AoE damage.
There are pros and cons to vertical and horizontal progression, both have their appeal and both can be handled in a better manner. The main thing is vertical progression is used as a crutch for weak gameplay, once that isn't the agendas, methods can be devised to make vertical development more worthwhile as well.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
I agree with this. Lessons have been learned in the past about vertical progression but younger people think it's new so here we go. It's why we get a new version of the three musketeers movies every 15 to 20 years. Kids haven't seen it so it must be original.
Should have went with Superman, since Man of Steel shows every sign of re-launching DC's movie division (again).
Supes and Bats...why not recycle and repeat, folks are still buying tickets?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I guess my first thought was, "How does a character get better at what he or she does?"
If one swings a longsword enough times, they should get better at it. Same with all skills a character may have at their disposal. Does any increase count as "vertical" progression?
Then you have different weapon and armor types. Is platemail better than chainmail? How about an iron mace compared to a steel mace? How do you represent this in game terms? What about magical items? Are these other forms of "vertical" progression, only?
I like the "idea" of no vertical progression, but wonder at how it could be implemented in game terms. Will my character I just created be able to take on the big bad boss in the game? If so, what is to keep me playing after I have done so? I know what would keep *me* playing (quests, adventure, exploring, possibly friends), but most players would kill the end boss, save the world, and be done.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Progressing your character IS the whole point of mmorpgs, and as I welcome new ways to progress, the standard "vertical progression" is something that is easy to control.
Right now yes but that doesn't mean games can't do more. I remember back when I first started playing MMORPGs, I had only up until then played single player games. One of the biggest things I liked about MMO's was that they never ended, you couldn't just "beat the game". It was a permanent virtual world where I could always log in and do something fun. I think we need to focus more on that, instead of the typical vertical progression rewards that end up separating people. Yes GW2 got boring but that was not mainly because of it's progression model - if GW2 had better combat, a trinity role system, and put more importance on server and guild communities in the way standard MMO's do, it would have lasted longer. I think game devs can do better and keep us interested.
I agree completely.
And my point is that it is not "vertical progression" that is a problem in itself, it is how many games does it. The problem is that alot of games "vertical progression" stops and the progression is too fast, and that is a problem with those games design philosphy more than a problem with "vertical progression". Progression used to be the game, now its just a bump on the way to the end... game.
I am starting to dislike that definition "vertical progression", it is only a question of from which side you look at progression hehe. Owell in any case, progression is the key to a mmorpg, and I don't see it as having a direction really.
What I am reading the OP is speaking for is non-progression, and that is in my opinion silly.. maybe I am misunderstand the message.
Personally I would really like to see skill based systems, just much more advanced than what attempts we seen so far.
MMOs are not lasting anymore because developers have reduced the amount of vertical progression to get to endgame.
10 reasons why Vertical Progression is needed using your same points:
1.) It helps players from enjoy the game content:
Players will explore and learn what mobs it is ready to handle and which ones to avoid until they become more powerful. The excitement of new zones and areas they will be able to explore as soon as they reach level X. Trying to take out higher level mobs with a lower level group.
2.) It spreads out the player base:
This is a good thing: as you level up you will meet new people at the higher levels, they help teach you how to survive in the new zones, then as they level out of the zone, you play the mentor to the new players entering the new zone. If your friends can't play as much as you to keep up, then respect that and this encourages you to find players more your speed. Over time, you will run into familiar faces as you level up and those are the players you play at the same pace with - be their friend.
3.) Endgame leads to boring content:
Doing to same endgame dungeons every day, every week, just becomes boring. Nothing to do until raid night. Keeping tal vertical progression requirements means that it will be a long time before hitting the brick wall.
4.) It leads to dynamic content:
Having a steep vertical progression means that the player has to choose carefully where to explore, where to adventure, at any given time. Of course certain zones are made for certain levels, but in a system without vertical progression it's going to be the same thing, just gear dependent.
5.) pvp is always a problem:
If it's not the level imbalance, it's the gear imbalance, or the buff imbalance. PvP should not ever be a level playing field as the biggest reason folks pvp is to level and gear up and own.
6.) It does not lend itself to exploitive game design:
It encourages developers to balance zones, content and mob strength to give players a great challenge as they level up.
7.) Levelling up changes the gameplay:
As you level up you will learn new skills and abilities that were never able to use before. The mobs, too, will have new abilties and skills you need to be prepared to handle.
8.) It locks players out of higher level content:
Low level players can’t enter all the zones because they won’t last there very long. This helps to structure a storyline. The hero has first to fight the minions in the lower zones and gather xp and then he can enter the lair of the main villain.
This is a good thing!
9.) It does not creates Dragonball-Z-problem:
Developers need to be intelligent in their game design, that's all
10.) It makes the game nice and complex for players and designers alike:
We want to use our minds while we play. The more complex the better, so when we figure out how to best play at a certain level or where to find the best gear at that level we feel a great sense of accomplishment.
Actually Dogblaster, horizontal development is almost always more enjoyable, if not for the horizontal changes coupled in vertical progression, you'd be doing the exact same thing at LVL 80 as LVL 1, just more damage, the addition of AoE strikes, lunge attacks, slow on your magic spell, all of these are actually horizontal, they are adding different actions, not empowering existing ones linearly.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
The only reason vertical progression even exists is because content is limited, but an arbitrary progression system is only limited by a developer's imagination (i.e. how punishing to make the grind).
As soon as we see games (specifically better tools) that can be used to rapidly create new areas and content, we will possibly see vertical progression shrink. The need for it will have evaporated.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Even gear can be horizontal in a sense if crafted gear is equal or better than looted gear and it stays relevant. In SWG some of the most covetefd and powerful items were old hard to find items.
and the number 1 recent why those 10 good reasons failed to change the way MMO is designed .....
People like vertical progression, and the skinner box works.
Exactly. I like vertical progression and I imagine a lot of other people do as well. That does not mean all games vertical implementation is well done but a game without it would be well, boring.
Comments
Horizontal progression sounds great on paper, but in practice it just ends up being a very limited form of vertical progression (all the downsides with none of the upsides). You'll always end up with some skills being more effective than others, so the wide range of "options" you have for your character really aren't that wide of range.
At best, you have a system with few options so that all options are equally viable and balanced. GW2 works like this once you hit max. Unfortunately, it makes the classes feel very generic and boring.
So yeah, while I agree with your points on paper, I don't think it works well in game design.
You make me like charity
Games need to adhere to economics, just like any other products.
After playing gw2 I prefer vertical progression more than ever
And so what that vertical progression locks out players from content, etc.? They should work off to be on same level as me, gear, level, skill wise. For me is more pro than con
p.s.: grind/farm is something I expect and want in my mmorpg.
You're making the false assumption that lateral progression isn't also a "skinner box".
If a game involves any rewards whatsoever (from a new piece of gear, to the delight of exploration, to simply experiencing a nice scenic overlook,) it exhibits the same traits that Skinner's experiements measured.
No game escapes this, because if you managed to somehow make a game which was wholly unrewarding nobody would play it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I play MMORPG's and RPG's in general primarily for their vertical progression. Once that comes to a halt, if there's nothing to do with my great god-like abilities like fight other people for territory such as in EVE, DAOC, or DF:UW, then there's really no point to playing.
Back in the 80's and 90's we called games with vertical progression RPGS, and games without it Adventure games, the latter pretty much all dying off by the end of the 90's.
People like vertical progression, they just start getting tired when there's nothing to do with it, so then the hamster wheel of gear grinding seems to come up, make harder content to get better gear, to conquer harder content, rinse and repeat.
Sure, seems like some folks really enjoy this, (but not for all that long in many cases) while others prefer to have something to do with their powers.
OP's suggestion makes for a giant adventure game, and not one I'm interested in. Just like real life, my games need to have a sense of growth and progression, and getting things like better looking (but not more powerful) clothes just doesn't really do it for me.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
hah if you have same satisfaction from exploring random places like from new op gear .. than lol
but everyone is different with different taste
I agree with this. Lessons have been learned in the past about vertical progression but younger people think it's new so here we go. It's why we get a new version of the three musketeers movies every 15 to 20 years. Kids haven't seen it so it must be original.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yeah .. that is why the OP is wrong in saying "MMOs do not need vertical progression" since it is one option, and a popular one.
Thank you for pointing out that it is wrong for the OP to make such a general over-sweeping statement.
What does originality have to do with anything?
How many times have we seen batman on the movie screen? People watch it not because it is new, but because it is entertaining.
You don't have to do something brand new to be entertaining.
I really want to highlight that point, as it's one of the best observations I've seen made here in a while. It's a simple statement, but there's a lot to think about from it, and how it relates to modern RPG's.
You make me like charity
It has to do with what I find boring. It was a personal opinion. VP is boring FOR ME. You can love it for all I care. We are giving opinions not debating.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Boring is still boring. Lessons learned from old rpgs have shown which type of progression people prefer. That can't mean you and other can't like it but that doesn't mean you can claim the majority of the player base.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If you want no vertical progression play a single player game with cheats....
RPGs are the not game for you. And, yes I know I said RPGs since well even single player ones are all about vertical progression.
There are pros and cons to vertical and horizontal progression, both have their appeal and both can be handled in a better manner. The main thing is vertical progression is used as a crutch for weak gameplay, once that isn't the agendas, methods can be devised to make vertical development more worthwhile as well.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Where did I say that?
They're all rewards. Doesn't make them equal rewards, but they're all rewards.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Should have went with Superman, since Man of Steel shows every sign of re-launching DC's movie division (again).
Supes and Bats...why not recycle and repeat, folks are still buying tickets?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I guess my first thought was, "How does a character get better at what he or she does?"
If one swings a longsword enough times, they should get better at it. Same with all skills a character may have at their disposal. Does any increase count as "vertical" progression?
Then you have different weapon and armor types. Is platemail better than chainmail? How about an iron mace compared to a steel mace? How do you represent this in game terms? What about magical items? Are these other forms of "vertical" progression, only?
I like the "idea" of no vertical progression, but wonder at how it could be implemented in game terms. Will my character I just created be able to take on the big bad boss in the game? If so, what is to keep me playing after I have done so? I know what would keep *me* playing (quests, adventure, exploring, possibly friends), but most players would kill the end boss, save the world, and be done.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
All Im sayin is, vertical progression rewards are usually more satisfacting than horizontal ones. For me atleast ..
For instance .. wvw rewards in gw2 made me laught when introduced xD
I agree completely.
And my point is that it is not "vertical progression" that is a problem in itself, it is how many games does it. The problem is that alot of games "vertical progression" stops and the progression is too fast, and that is a problem with those games design philosphy more than a problem with "vertical progression". Progression used to be the game, now its just a bump on the way to the end... game.
I am starting to dislike that definition "vertical progression", it is only a question of from which side you look at progression hehe. Owell in any case, progression is the key to a mmorpg, and I don't see it as having a direction really.
What I am reading the OP is speaking for is non-progression, and that is in my opinion silly.. maybe I am misunderstand the message.
Personally I would really like to see skill based systems, just much more advanced than what attempts we seen so far.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
No Vertical Progression = FAIL
MMOs are not lasting anymore because developers have reduced the amount of vertical progression to get to endgame.
10 reasons why Vertical Progression is needed using your same points:
1.) It helps players from enjoy the game content:
Players will explore and learn what mobs it is ready to handle and which ones to avoid until they become more powerful. The excitement of new zones and areas they will be able to explore as soon as they reach level X. Trying to take out higher level mobs with a lower level group.
2.) It spreads out the player base:
This is a good thing: as you level up you will meet new people at the higher levels, they help teach you how to survive in the new zones, then as they level out of the zone, you play the mentor to the new players entering the new zone. If your friends can't play as much as you to keep up, then respect that and this encourages you to find players more your speed. Over time, you will run into familiar faces as you level up and those are the players you play at the same pace with - be their friend.
3.) Endgame leads to boring content:
Doing to same endgame dungeons every day, every week, just becomes boring. Nothing to do until raid night. Keeping tal vertical progression requirements means that it will be a long time before hitting the brick wall.
4.) It leads to dynamic content:
Having a steep vertical progression means that the player has to choose carefully where to explore, where to adventure, at any given time. Of course certain zones are made for certain levels, but in a system without vertical progression it's going to be the same thing, just gear dependent.
5.) pvp is always a problem:
If it's not the level imbalance, it's the gear imbalance, or the buff imbalance. PvP should not ever be a level playing field as the biggest reason folks pvp is to level and gear up and own.
6.) It does not lend itself to exploitive game design:
It encourages developers to balance zones, content and mob strength to give players a great challenge as they level up.
7.) Levelling up changes the gameplay:
As you level up you will learn new skills and abilities that were never able to use before. The mobs, too, will have new abilties and skills you need to be prepared to handle.
8.) It locks players out of higher level content:
Low level players can’t enter all the zones because they won’t last there very long. This helps to structure a storyline. The hero has first to fight the minions in the lower zones and gather xp and then he can enter the lair of the main villain.
This is a good thing!
9.) It does not creates Dragonball-Z-problem:
Developers need to be intelligent in their game design, that's all
10.) It makes the game nice and complex for players and designers alike:
We want to use our minds while we play. The more complex the better, so when we figure out how to best play at a certain level or where to find the best gear at that level we feel a great sense of accomplishment.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
The only reason vertical progression even exists is because content is limited, but an arbitrary progression system is only limited by a developer's imagination (i.e. how punishing to make the grind).
As soon as we see games (specifically better tools) that can be used to rapidly create new areas and content, we will possibly see vertical progression shrink. The need for it will have evaporated.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Exactly. I like vertical progression and I imagine a lot of other people do as well. That does not mean all games vertical implementation is well done but a game without it would be well, boring.
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