Defiance was so mediocre and unfinished that this comes as no surprise
When you make an MMO for a tv show that's already been canceled for being terrible you've already got the worst word of mouth you could possibly imagine
Defiance was so mediocre and unfinished that this comes as no surprise
When you make an MMO for a tv show that's already been canceled for being terrible you've already got the worst word of mouth you could possibly imagine
The tv show has been renewed for a second season. But I do agree that the game is mediocre.
Problem is, it's really hard to look at Defiance and think of it as project that is done. At this point -- Nearly, what, two months post release? -- it's around what you might reasonably call a beta. Chat is still fubar, clan stuff doesn't work a depressing amount of the time, perks routinely unassign themselves without notice, paid (with real money) boosts stop working randomly, maps that were supposed to be in at launch have been added and removed due to bugs so many times I've lost count.
And that's just off the top of my head.
If they're cleaning house so they can bring in some competent designers and coders, they really need to say so -- it would probably boost people's confidence in the game's chances of ever actually working right a ton.
If, however, they're just dumping excess salary because they think the project is done...
Well, let's just say I'm glad I didn't buy a season pass.
Originally posted by Ginaz More than likely the result of the development phase of Defiance being completed. They don't need as many people to maintain the game as they did to develop it. Happens all the time.
Nature of the beast once the game goes live. Sucks and reflects a bit of why the industry seems pretty lackluster to begin with.
I lost all respect for Trion after the disaster with End of Nations, I mean wtf was the point of getting some of the greatest strategy game developers to create your game only to take it away from then before its even finished, especially since your own staff dont even know what to do with it.
I lost all respect for Trion after the disaster with End of Nations, I mean wtf was the point of getting some of the greatest strategy game developers to create your game only to take it away from then before its even finished, especially since your own staff dont even know what to do with it.
I have to agree as well - though we are now bordering on persecutory comments...but this industry can no longer hide as it once did, offering a few bones here and there while subscribers happily nibble up the tasty treats.
We have learned that as in any entertainment platform (Hollywood, as an example), that narcissism is so out of control, that if there's enough money to burn, even the most talentless, creativity lacking developers can take a well known fantasy title (yeah, you know the ones) and just create a pile of trash.
People shouldn't be so casual about all this. If this really is the nature of the beast...the beast is sick and dieing. No one wants to jump into a career that is feast or famine all the time. Those types of jobs attract kids not professionals. If this is what people have to look forward to in the game industry it's no wonder we see very little improvement. When your vets all move on to real jobs it's kids learning from the same mistakes over and over again.
Teams are not made up of transient employees that are here 1 month and gone the next. You don't get quality work out of someone like that.
Defiance was so mediocre and unfinished that this comes as no surprise
When you make an MMO for a tv show that's already been canceled for being terrible you've already got the worst word of mouth you could possibly imagine
To hell with the tv show,Trion lied about how that was going work anyway. I bet they were selling the same crap to the board right up to the last minute just like they did us, the ones following since it first appeared on the Trion site. Cancel the game, and sue the con artist lead developers.
Defiance was so mediocre and unfinished that this comes as no surprise
When you make an MMO for a tv show that's already been canceled for being terrible you've already got the worst word of mouth you could possibly imagine
The tv show has been renewed for a second season. But I do agree that the game is mediocre.
That was set before even the game released. A Third season won't be coming. Unless they make some drastic changes and come up With more interesting episodes. As Viewer ratings continue to go Down. So I think right now SyFy is whishing they did not renew for second season. Especially now the game is tanking!
As there were a hell lot better TV series that got canceled after the first season.
Right now, I stopped watching 2 weeks ago after Episode 3. As so far only the Pilot was interesting, after that it became a borefest. Just like the game.
ArenaNet didn't lay off anyone, because GW2 is doing well.
These massive lay offs are NOT normal! People have gotten used to seeing it happening, because so many MMOs have FAILED to keep any retention after launch and were forced to cut!
When you succesfully launch an MMO, you keep the team intact, just move Resources from the primary development team to the expansion and live teams.
But Yeah.... if Your game fails misserably (like now DEFIANCE) and start losing Money rapidly, you have to start swinging the lay off Axe.
Originally posted by DamonVile Games built for disposable players are now apparently built by disposable employees.
This has been true for a very long time and is not new to the gaming industry. At some point a group of developers will realise making a quality game while costing more upfront will end up generating more profits longterm. I played defiance during an open beta weekend and then later got invited to the closed alpha/beta. The game had really nothing new and I found it to be kind of boring after a very short while - hours of playtime not days. Even when I was otherwise bored with no games to play - I still did not go back to the alpha/beta to play I found it that boring.
Has the TV show aired yet? I havent been paying attention. I was more afraid the game being boring would detract from the TV show and perhaps pull the whole thing down.
While I do not have anything really bad to say about trion - This will be the 2nd strike after they finished Rift. The other RTS game they were almost finished with also got shelved for the foreseeable future.
This is absolutely correct. All MMO companies hire a bunch of developers and after launch when subber or buyer numbers are at or higher than projections they just fire half the staff. The truth is the Defiance game has hit expectations and even higher. So many people have purchased the DLC that Trion doesnt even need any developers anymore since they made more than enough money on that title already.
/sarcasm off
Seriously, are you actually saying that all game companies have massive layoffs a month after the game launches? Isnt it much more likely that game purchases have been much lower than expected and Trion now needs to make cuts in order to prevent greater financial loss?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I say about half their employees in that Defiance SD office got laid off. Of course just the worker bees,..no upper management,..ugg.
It happens...least it's not like EA tragic,..and I am thankful at least they hired those people locally as opposed to outsourcing(from USA) in the first place.
Anyone who thinks the state of the Defiance MMO is natural must be referencing the cycle of life. The game is in trouble. I feel sorry for anyone who purchased the DLC Season Pass.
Personally I think this is for two reasons. Apparently someone in the dev team dropped the ball on security and removing exploit bugs. That's a big no no with a high quality goal.
Second, this is another example of how those companies that fund these games know nothing of the business. They could be cutting off their hands and feet as far as players go if they do too much to change the game by eliminating personnel that the players actually like.
Wow, I've never realized how many people on here are just either a) dumb b) unaware c) trolling.
Layoffs are NORMALLY in the game industry... you build a game, you build a team, you get close to launch or post launch (after the first round of bug fixes), and then you layoff the majority whom are no longer needed.
I'm not your researcher but layoffs happen. And then the people whine and move on to other places. Blizzard laid of people at the HEIGHT of their population. Did they need the money? Were they strapped to lay these people off to save a buck? No. They weren't needed for the current development cycle.
Just because it isn't normal in your burger flipping professions doesn't mean it isn't the norm elsewhere. As people who work in Semi-Conductor industries... layoffs come and go like a sine wave. (look it up)
Reminds me of broadcast radio. Find a job, pack up the family and move 7 states away. Work 2 years. Do it again.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
You can't link phone conversations, sorry, nor would I want to reveal my friends in the industry. Its the real deal, I am sorry that it lacks drama and conspiracy theories, I know those make much better news.
Truth is rather boring. Oh well.
No, its just mighty convenient that you just happen to have an "inside source" to back a story that yet again attempts to paint your favorite company in good light. Where was this inside source to help you against the claims of rampant cheating before the game even launched, or the various other problems? This claim is the same one toted back in December when Trion dropped head devs and lost other high management people, including Hartsman himself. This "the teams were just too big excuse" does not constantly hold water, especially when the layoffs are as large as is speculated on top of how much content has been promised. Whats really amusing is you claim "the bugs are stable" and last I heard the item disappearance is still a rather significant problem.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
That link has nothing to do with WoW, StarCraft, or Diablo. It has nothing to do with laying off people after a project completion. It was the result of shaking out of the corporation after a merger.
See and I specifically grabbed that one because it was within a ~1yr release window of Burning Crusade.
Ultimately, my point is that this isn't unusual and is far from a "this game is fail". One person insulted the show saying it was already cancelled and it was actually re-upped for another season.
I own the game, I bought the Ultimate or whatever the hell the $150 one was called, and I'm meh on it at best. But I've seen this story wax and wane too often to take it as a sign of a company apopcalypse.
Comments
...the show was approved for a second season.
The tv show has been renewed for a second season. But I do agree that the game is mediocre.
Problem is, it's really hard to look at Defiance and think of it as project that is done. At this point -- Nearly, what, two months post release? -- it's around what you might reasonably call a beta. Chat is still fubar, clan stuff doesn't work a depressing amount of the time, perks routinely unassign themselves without notice, paid (with real money) boosts stop working randomly, maps that were supposed to be in at launch have been added and removed due to bugs so many times I've lost count.
And that's just off the top of my head.
If they're cleaning house so they can bring in some competent designers and coders, they really need to say so -- it would probably boost people's confidence in the game's chances of ever actually working right a ton.
If, however, they're just dumping excess salary because they think the project is done...
Well, let's just say I'm glad I didn't buy a season pass.
Nature of the beast once the game goes live. Sucks and reflects a bit of why the industry seems pretty lackluster to begin with.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
I lost all respect for Trion after the disaster with End of Nations, I mean wtf was the point of getting some of the greatest strategy game developers to create your game only to take it away from then before its even finished, especially since your own staff dont even know what to do with it.
I have to agree as well - though we are now bordering on persecutory comments...but this industry can no longer hide as it once did, offering a few bones here and there while subscribers happily nibble up the tasty treats.
We have learned that as in any entertainment platform (Hollywood, as an example), that narcissism is so out of control, that if there's enough money to burn, even the most talentless, creativity lacking developers can take a well known fantasy title (yeah, you know the ones) and just create a pile of trash.
I hope the best for the folks who were laid off.
People shouldn't be so casual about all this. If this really is the nature of the beast...the beast is sick and dieing. No one wants to jump into a career that is feast or famine all the time. Those types of jobs attract kids not professionals. If this is what people have to look forward to in the game industry it's no wonder we see very little improvement. When your vets all move on to real jobs it's kids learning from the same mistakes over and over again.
Teams are not made up of transient employees that are here 1 month and gone the next. You don't get quality work out of someone like that.
To hell with the tv show,Trion lied about how that was going work anyway. I bet they were selling the same crap to the board right up to the last minute just like they did us, the ones following since it first appeared on the Trion site. Cancel the game, and sue the con artist lead developers.
Actually dont spread false rumors
Defiance has done well enough to be renewed for a Second season which starts filming in August
My gaming blog
So much truth in one sentence...
You won the internets today, sir. /bow
PS: Defiance is a tremendously bad game, I played beta and could not play past one hour, it is really bad!
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That was set before even the game released. A Third season won't be coming. Unless they make some drastic changes and come up With more interesting episodes. As Viewer ratings continue to go Down. So I think right now SyFy is whishing they did not renew for second season. Especially now the game is tanking!
As there were a hell lot better TV series that got canceled after the first season.
Right now, I stopped watching 2 weeks ago after Episode 3. As so far only the Pilot was interesting, after that it became a borefest. Just like the game.
ArenaNet didn't lay off anyone, because GW2 is doing well.
These massive lay offs are NOT normal! People have gotten used to seeing it happening, because so many MMOs have FAILED to keep any retention after launch and were forced to cut!
When you succesfully launch an MMO, you keep the team intact, just move Resources from the primary development team to the expansion and live teams.
But Yeah.... if Your game fails misserably (like now DEFIANCE) and start losing Money rapidly, you have to start swinging the lay off Axe.
Yeah, ty for the quote. I've been looking for a new sig.
This has been true for a very long time and is not new to the gaming industry. At some point a group of developers will realise making a quality game while costing more upfront will end up generating more profits longterm. I played defiance during an open beta weekend and then later got invited to the closed alpha/beta. The game had really nothing new and I found it to be kind of boring after a very short while - hours of playtime not days. Even when I was otherwise bored with no games to play - I still did not go back to the alpha/beta to play I found it that boring.
Has the TV show aired yet? I havent been paying attention. I was more afraid the game being boring would detract from the TV show and perhaps pull the whole thing down.
While I do not have anything really bad to say about trion - This will be the 2nd strike after they finished Rift. The other RTS game they were almost finished with also got shelved for the foreseeable future.
This is absolutely correct. All MMO companies hire a bunch of developers and after launch when subber or buyer numbers are at or higher than projections they just fire half the staff. The truth is the Defiance game has hit expectations and even higher. So many people have purchased the DLC that Trion doesnt even need any developers anymore since they made more than enough money on that title already.
/sarcasm off
Seriously, are you actually saying that all game companies have massive layoffs a month after the game launches? Isnt it much more likely that game purchases have been much lower than expected and Trion now needs to make cuts in order to prevent greater financial loss?
At least someone understand the use of B2P/F2P players.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
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I say about half their employees in that Defiance SD office got laid off. Of course just the worker bees,..no upper management,..ugg.
It happens...least it's not like EA tragic,..and I am thankful at least they hired those people locally as opposed to outsourcing(from USA) in the first place.
Godspeed to all affected!
Personally I think this is for two reasons. Apparently someone in the dev team dropped the ball on security and removing exploit bugs. That's a big no no with a high quality goal.
Second, this is another example of how those companies that fund these games know nothing of the business. They could be cutting off their hands and feet as far as players go if they do too much to change the game by eliminating personnel that the players actually like.
Wow, I've never realized how many people on here are just either a) dumb b) unaware c) trolling.
Layoffs are NORMALLY in the game industry... you build a game, you build a team, you get close to launch or post launch (after the first round of bug fixes), and then you layoff the majority whom are no longer needed.
People want examples:
CCP (your glorious Eve online) - http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/10/19/ccp-layoffs-affect-20-of-worldwide-staff-company-focusing-on-e/
SOE (EQ, EQ2, Planetside) - 2009 - http://kotaku.com/5317168/layoffs-hit-sony-online-entertainment
2011 - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33836/SOE_Hit_With_205_Layoffs_Three_Studio_Closures_Agency_Cancelled.php
Blizzard (WoW, Diablo, Starcraft) - 2008 - http://ocbiz.ocregister.com/2008/09/11/more-layoffs-at-blizzard-activision-but-none-affect-irvine-co/
2011 - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20031311-17.html
2012 - http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/29/blizzard-announces-layoffs-of-600-employees-worldwide/
I'm not your researcher but layoffs happen. And then the people whine and move on to other places. Blizzard laid of people at the HEIGHT of their population. Did they need the money? Were they strapped to lay these people off to save a buck? No. They weren't needed for the current development cycle.
Just because it isn't normal in your burger flipping professions doesn't mean it isn't the norm elsewhere. As people who work in Semi-Conductor industries... layoffs come and go like a sine wave. (look it up)
Edit: Sorry had to find the below article...
Here's an interesting article to read "http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/21/mmo-devs-most-in-danger-of-layoffs-study-claims/
Reminds me of broadcast radio. Find a job, pack up the family and move 7 states away. Work 2 years. Do it again.
No, its just mighty convenient that you just happen to have an "inside source" to back a story that yet again attempts to paint your favorite company in good light. Where was this inside source to help you against the claims of rampant cheating before the game even launched, or the various other problems? This claim is the same one toted back in December when Trion dropped head devs and lost other high management people, including Hartsman himself. This "the teams were just too big excuse" does not constantly hold water, especially when the layoffs are as large as is speculated on top of how much content has been promised. Whats really amusing is you claim "the bugs are stable" and last I heard the item disappearance is still a rather significant problem.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
See and I specifically grabbed that one because it was within a ~1yr release window of Burning Crusade.
Ultimately, my point is that this isn't unusual and is far from a "this game is fail". One person insulted the show saying it was already cancelled and it was actually re-upped for another season.
I own the game, I bought the Ultimate or whatever the hell the $150 one was called, and I'm meh on it at best. But I've seen this story wax and wane too often to take it as a sign of a company apopcalypse.