At one time, in the apparently oh so distant past. A Beta was for testing, testers reported bugs, reported things they liked and didn't like and why. Open beta was to demo, break, and fix all the mechanics, as well as to stress test things.
These last few years an Open Beta is nothing but a PR project for the Dev's, and for the unwashed masses to clamor for early access. Just how many of the hordes playing the latest Beta have ever filled out a bug report, hell, they probably wouldn't even know HOW to.
Take the Neverwinter Beta as an example, no wipes, no skill resets. They are honestly certain the program is already 'Gold', lock the code and launch the open beta. I personally reported 2 of the exploits people are now talking about over a week ago. Yet THEY just discovered them Sunday morn. What about all the people who reported various things before Sun that were ignored? Only when someone publicly posted the lists and included instructions, ONLY THEN did Cryptic learn about these bugs and exploits??? Yeah right.
Personally I am SICK and TIRED of games being released with bugs and exploits that any Dev team with even a trace of self respect would have fixed in Beta. Come on, you're programming a Game and you can't do basic sort features in an AH? Basic range filtering doesn't function properly. Or wasn't sorting included in your edition of Programming For Dummies??
So why are people desperate for a good game? Probably because of the shallow play, lack of content, broken mechanics, gimmicky play, that plague all the releases in the last couple years. It used to be games held people for years, now 3 months is a long time?
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
This ^^^
Or just staring a new game.
Well there is something to be said about the freshness of a new game. Playing with new game mechanics, character creators and exploring the new world(s).
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
This ^^^
Or just staring a new game.
Well there is something to be said about the freshness of a new game. Playing with new game mechanics, character creators and exploring the new world(s).
You know. I was looking at your banner and realized I would feel alot better about this whole pay now and beta test for three years mentality if my "fee" was presented as a way to support the project like a "donation". I think too many of these game publishers are selling a product as having "value" when its not actually there yet. If they are taking a "donation" instead, at least there is no notion that you are actually purchasing something of value.
It is a strange way of thinking about it really...both are the same scenario. I pay money and get access to what is basically an unfinished product. In one scenario though, no one is pissing on me and telling me it's rain.
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
This ^^^
Or just staring a new game.
Well there is something to be said about the freshness of a new game. Playing with new game mechanics, character creators and exploring the new world(s).
People are welcome to do whatever they want to do, IMO. My only point is that there's a growing number of people who want these games to go more in a virtual world direction, perhaps hybrid, instead of the same old boring gameplay. I personally want to find a great game and stay there for at least a couple years. I like to build friendships, community, and my slice of a world and have it persist for a long time. I know that's not for everyone, but I have a feeling that as soon as a high-quality game can deliver on this, it will be very popular indeed.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Well their is actually law that says no retailer can knowingly sell an unfit product.I think Preorders are exempt because it is not actually released yet and of course a free to play or Beta does not require any money,so there is no law.See how nice and tidy it is to go f2p,you have no laws to bind your developer to,then they like to toss in lawyer work that says your gaming experience may change at any given moment with no fault of the developer.They like to make sure any money you do spend is bound under no law and non refundable.
When you buy from a cash shop,as long as you receive your items,that is the only law they are bound to adhere to.So they could makes changes to screw you out of any cash shop purchases and it would too bad,tough luck.
I look at cash shop gaming like buying from a Flea market,you would be insane if you expected 100% quality assurance from a Flea market vendor.There are rally no incentives for developers to step up their efforts,they rely on very few following up with refunds,sort of like a 95% dupe rate,they can afford to lose 5% when they take advantage of 95%.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As another really old school MMO gamer (lol ... 16 years) I agree that finally the newer gen MMOers are finally I think getting sick of themepark grinders, and would like a deeper game experience. I did like WoW, but once you do a WoW you just can't do another one.
Now we just have to wait for more sandboxes... that are actually good...
nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1 20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
This ^^^
Or just staring a new game.
Well there is something to be said about the freshness of a new game. Playing with new game mechanics, character creators and exploring the new world(s).
People are welcome to do whatever they want to do, IMO. My only point is that there's a growing number of people who want these games to go more in a virtual world direction, perhaps hybrid, instead of the same old boring gameplay. I personally want to find a great game and stay there for at least a couple years. I like to build friendships, community, and my slice of a world and have it persist for a long time. I know that's not for everyone, but I have a feeling that as soon as a high-quality game can deliver on this, it will be very popular indeed.
I am one of those who always wanted VWs but at some point you have to face the fact that the masses are buy that model.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by benit59 My point is--- why are we so willing to accept incomplete products in this particular portion of our lives when it is unacceptable in all others? Why have we set the expectation so low in this regard?
Because most of these people are fanatics, they refuse to just go find something else to do, they spend all of their time desperately searching for any MMO to play and complaining about it the whole time.
Most rational people would just stop playing MMOs entirely and find another hobby.
Originally posted by benit59 My point is--- why are we so willing to accept incomplete products in this particular portion of our lives when it is unacceptable in all others? Why have we set the expectation so low in this regard?
Because most of these people are fanatics, they refuse to just go find something else to do, they spend all of their time desperately searching for any MMO to play and complaining about it the whole time.
Most rational people would just stop playing MMOs entirely and find another hobby.
It's funny because all you seem to do on this site is complain about other people complaining. In the end, you're in the same boat. Turn that frown upside down.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
When the toaster manufacturer speaks about an upcoming toaster, and then only 90% of the toaster's features make it into the final release, that's not a significant breakdown in the process.
When a MMORPG maker speaks about their game, and 90% of the features make it into the final release including the core features which make the game fun, they've still created a fun product for you.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Let's say this toaster says "BETA" on the box. What are your expectations of the product inside?
Is it the game companies at fault or is it the players?
Because, by golly, given your example I would say the players.
so, when I go to skyrim nexus (or in the past, any elder scrolls mod site) and I see someone say "hey guys, this is beta, if you have any ideas or see any bugs please let me know..." I DON'T download the mod.
don't. I don't.
why? Because I'm looking for complete "reasonably" bug free mods to play. And as "I" know, some of these mods can mess up your game if they are not done correctly.
So I exercise my brain, my free will and I wait. And sometimes the mods release complete and sometimes the modder never comes back.
So, if a game company says "beta" then as much as players want to just think it's a marketing ploy (and I'm sure that a good amount of times it could be) just don't invest any money until you are certain that the game is out of beta. Which isn't a guarantee that there won't be bugs.
But at least you will have a more firm leg to stand on when there are issues.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Axehilt When the toaster manufacturer speaks about an upcoming toaster, and then only 90% of the toaster's features make it into the final release, that's not a significant breakdown in the process.When a MMORPG maker speaks about their game, and 90% of the features make it into the final release including the core features which make the game fun, they've still created a fun product for you.
If you bought a toaster and it didn't work for the first week you owned it, it would be a significant breakdown in the process.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Axehilt When the toaster manufacturer speaks about an upcoming toaster, and then only 90% of the toaster's features make it into the final release, that's not a significant breakdown in the process.
When a MMORPG maker speaks about their game, and 90% of the features make it into the final release including the core features which make the game fun, they've still created a fun product for you.
If you bought a toaster and it didn't work for the first week you owned it, it would be a significant breakdown in the process.
^this.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Let's say this toaster says "BETA" on the box. What are your expectations of the product inside?
Is it the game companies at fault or is it the players?
Because, by golly, given your example I would say the players.
so, when I go to skyrim nexus (or in the past, any elder scrolls mod site) and I see someone say "hey guys, this is beta, if you have any ideas or see any bugs please let me know..." I DON'T download the mod.
don't. I don't.
why? Because I'm looking for complete "reasonably" bug free mods to play. And as "I" know, some of these mods can mess up your game if they are not done correctly.
So I exercise my brain, my free will and I wait. And sometimes the mods release complete and sometimes the modder never comes back.
So, if a game company says "beta" then as much as players want to just think it's a marketing ploy (and I'm sure that a good amount of times it could be) just don't invest any money until you are certain that the game is out of beta. Which isn't a guarantee that there won't be bugs.
But at least you will have a more firm leg to stand on when there are issues.
I don't think saying a product has defects provides legal protection from lawsuits or a defense thereof.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think the real problem people has is a game being released while it's in beta. Anyone who complains during CB events or events when there is a character wipe to come SHOULD just be telling the developer feedback and bug exploits. However, when they say there will be no more character wipes and the game is in OB with an official launch date 1-3 weeks down the road, that's pretty much bs and then they are just using that excuse to justify flaws in the game. My philosophy is release the game when it's done, not while in OB, not while there are literally 3-4 pages of bugs to be fixed. Just my .02 though.
If you bought a toaster and it didn't work for the first week you owned it, it would be a significant breakdown in the process.
Whichever MMORPGs you managed to find which were like that are genuinely bad executions of games deserving of criticism.
The two worst launches I remember in the last few years were more like if the toaster I bought didn't work for one single day after launch, and then the company updated things so that the toaster worked great afterwards. And those weren't MMORPGs; it's been a long time since a MMORPG at launch completely failed to work. (Let's be sure not to confuse "failing to make the absolute most perfect toast you've ever eaten" with "failing".)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by lizardbonesIf you bought a toaster and it didn't work for the first week you owned it, it would be a significant breakdown in the process.
Whichever MMORPGs you managed to find which were like that are genuinely bad executions of games deserving of criticism.
The two worst launches I remember in the last few years were more like if the toaster I bought didn't work for one single day after launch, and then the company updated things so that the toaster worked great afterwards. And those weren't MMORPGs; it's been a long time since a MMORPG at launch completely failed to work. (Let's be sure not to confuse "failing to make the absolute most perfect toast you've ever eaten" with "failing".)
Not being able to log in is a pretty big problem, since the entire rest of the game depends on that one thing. It's just as bad to try and log into a game and get stuck in a queue waiting to actually play.
Continuing the use of bad analogies, it would be as if you wanted the toaster to make you toast in the usual thirty seconds or so and you have to wait five or ten minutes for your toast instead. This happens whenever there's a new version of the toaster. However, before you can even get in the toaster queue, there is toaster maintenance that means you can't use your toaster. You have to use your microwave, which makes horrible toast.
Can we stop using analogies now? They don't work. You're just going to have a follow up to the toaster analogy and in order to respond, I'm going to have to continue using it and it can keep going forever because we're not talking about MMOs, we're talking about some hybrid MMO Toaster that doesn't exist and doesn't actually prove any points. For my part, I'm sorry I perpetuated the analogy.
** ** **
Star Wars had day one login issues, so did Rift. Defiance had day one issues and so did TSW. None of those issues were one hour waits. WoW's queues usually amounted to hour waits. That's all I've got off the top of my head. I'm sure other people can trot out a bunch of similar stories.
It wouldn't be fair to not mention that GW2 seemed to get their issues, if they even had any ironed out pretty quickly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Everyone has a hole that needs to be filled in every aspect.
scarlet blade player detected.
That's very very very funny , lol , well spotted we need a bit of humor round here um i spelled humour wrong meh i give up ,
DON;T PAY IN AN ALPHA OR BETA TEST!
There you go back to normal , BORING!
Btw nice one OP for taking my earlier post in another thread and making a cool thread from it You get ummm Kudos well you get some of mine.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Originally posted by benit59 My point is--- why are we so willing to accept incomplete products in this particular portion of our lives when it is unacceptable in all others? Why have we set the expectation so low in this regard?
Because most of these people are fanatics, they refuse to just go find something else to do, they spend all of their time desperately searching for any MMO to play and complaining about it the whole time.
Most rational people would just stop playing MMOs entirely and find another hobby.
It's funny because all you seem to do on this site is complain about other people complaining. In the end, you're in the same boat. Turn that frown upside down.
Nope, I'm neither demanding that the perfect game for me is made, nor am I even playing a game. I recognize the realities.
Originally posted by Dogblaster Usually you cant buy beta things, only try them
correction it used to be this way, beta is now another source of income for modern MMOs, especilly F2Ps since they dont charge for the games download at laucnh instead they charge for early access with packs of diffrent types, and by doing this make most of thier money that they would have made with a B2P game anyway but without upseting people who hate those kind of games.
the trick here is that they are makeing the smae if not more and chargeing more, for games then they used to, and roughly the same amount of people purchase the early start as would have bought the game hasd it been a B2P but for a higher price, AND THEY ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Comments
At one time, in the apparently oh so distant past. A Beta was for testing, testers reported bugs, reported things they liked and didn't like and why. Open beta was to demo, break, and fix all the mechanics, as well as to stress test things.
These last few years an Open Beta is nothing but a PR project for the Dev's, and for the unwashed masses to clamor for early access. Just how many of the hordes playing the latest Beta have ever filled out a bug report, hell, they probably wouldn't even know HOW to.
Take the Neverwinter Beta as an example, no wipes, no skill resets. They are honestly certain the program is already 'Gold', lock the code and launch the open beta. I personally reported 2 of the exploits people are now talking about over a week ago. Yet THEY just discovered them Sunday morn. What about all the people who reported various things before Sun that were ignored? Only when someone publicly posted the lists and included instructions, ONLY THEN did Cryptic learn about these bugs and exploits??? Yeah right.
Personally I am SICK and TIRED of games being released with bugs and exploits that any Dev team with even a trace of self respect would have fixed in Beta. Come on, you're programming a Game and you can't do basic sort features in an AH? Basic range filtering doesn't function properly. Or wasn't sorting included in your edition of Programming For Dummies??
So why are people desperate for a good game? Probably because of the shallow play, lack of content, broken mechanics, gimmicky play, that plague all the releases in the last couple years. It used to be games held people for years, now 3 months is a long time?
What if a large part of the people going from MMO to MMO enjoy going from MMO to MMO? They don't want an MMO to play for years, they want the experience of starting a new MMO.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This ^^^
Or just staring a new game.
Well there is something to be said about the freshness of a new game. Playing with new game mechanics, character creators and exploring the new world(s).
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You know. I was looking at your banner and realized I would feel alot better about this whole pay now and beta test for three years mentality if my "fee" was presented as a way to support the project like a "donation". I think too many of these game publishers are selling a product as having "value" when its not actually there yet. If they are taking a "donation" instead, at least there is no notion that you are actually purchasing something of value.
It is a strange way of thinking about it really...both are the same scenario. I pay money and get access to what is basically an unfinished product. In one scenario though, no one is pissing on me and telling me it's rain.
People are welcome to do whatever they want to do, IMO. My only point is that there's a growing number of people who want these games to go more in a virtual world direction, perhaps hybrid, instead of the same old boring gameplay. I personally want to find a great game and stay there for at least a couple years. I like to build friendships, community, and my slice of a world and have it persist for a long time. I know that's not for everyone, but I have a feeling that as soon as a high-quality game can deliver on this, it will be very popular indeed.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Well their is actually law that says no retailer can knowingly sell an unfit product.I think Preorders are exempt because it is not actually released yet and of course a free to play or Beta does not require any money,so there is no law.See how nice and tidy it is to go f2p,you have no laws to bind your developer to,then they like to toss in lawyer work that says your gaming experience may change at any given moment with no fault of the developer.They like to make sure any money you do spend is bound under no law and non refundable.
When you buy from a cash shop,as long as you receive your items,that is the only law they are bound to adhere to.So they could makes changes to screw you out of any cash shop purchases and it would too bad,tough luck.
I look at cash shop gaming like buying from a Flea market,you would be insane if you expected 100% quality assurance from a Flea market vendor.There are rally no incentives for developers to step up their efforts,they rely on very few following up with refunds,sort of like a 95% dupe rate,they can afford to lose 5% when they take advantage of 95%.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As another really old school MMO gamer (lol ... 16 years) I agree that finally the newer gen MMOers are finally I think getting sick of themepark grinders, and would like a deeper game experience. I did like WoW, but once you do a WoW you just can't do another one.
Now we just have to wait for more sandboxes... that are actually good...
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
I am one of those who always wanted VWs but at some point you have to face the fact that the masses are buy that model.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Because most of these people are fanatics, they refuse to just go find something else to do, they spend all of their time desperately searching for any MMO to play and complaining about it the whole time.
Most rational people would just stop playing MMOs entirely and find another hobby.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
It's funny because all you seem to do on this site is complain about other people complaining. In the end, you're in the same boat. Turn that frown upside down.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
When the toaster manufacturer speaks about an upcoming toaster, and then only 90% of the toaster's features make it into the final release, that's not a significant breakdown in the process.
When a MMORPG maker speaks about their game, and 90% of the features make it into the final release including the core features which make the game fun, they've still created a fun product for you.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Is it the game companies at fault or is it the players?
Because, by golly, given your example I would say the players.
so, when I go to skyrim nexus (or in the past, any elder scrolls mod site) and I see someone say "hey guys, this is beta, if you have any ideas or see any bugs please let me know..." I DON'T download the mod.
don't. I don't.
why? Because I'm looking for complete "reasonably" bug free mods to play. And as "I" know, some of these mods can mess up your game if they are not done correctly.
So I exercise my brain, my free will and I wait. And sometimes the mods release complete and sometimes the modder never comes back.
So, if a game company says "beta" then as much as players want to just think it's a marketing ploy (and I'm sure that a good amount of times it could be) just don't invest any money until you are certain that the game is out of beta. Which isn't a guarantee that there won't be bugs.
But at least you will have a more firm leg to stand on when there are issues.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you bought a toaster and it didn't work for the first week you owned it, it would be a significant breakdown in the process.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
^this.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I don't think saying a product has defects provides legal protection from lawsuits or a defense thereof.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Whichever MMORPGs you managed to find which were like that are genuinely bad executions of games deserving of criticism.
The two worst launches I remember in the last few years were more like if the toaster I bought didn't work for one single day after launch, and then the company updated things so that the toaster worked great afterwards. And those weren't MMORPGs; it's been a long time since a MMORPG at launch completely failed to work. (Let's be sure not to confuse "failing to make the absolute most perfect toast you've ever eaten" with "failing".)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not being able to log in is a pretty big problem, since the entire rest of the game depends on that one thing. It's just as bad to try and log into a game and get stuck in a queue waiting to actually play.
Continuing the use of bad analogies, it would be as if you wanted the toaster to make you toast in the usual thirty seconds or so and you have to wait five or ten minutes for your toast instead. This happens whenever there's a new version of the toaster. However, before you can even get in the toaster queue, there is toaster maintenance that means you can't use your toaster. You have to use your microwave, which makes horrible toast.
Can we stop using analogies now? They don't work. You're just going to have a follow up to the toaster analogy and in order to respond, I'm going to have to continue using it and it can keep going forever because we're not talking about MMOs, we're talking about some hybrid MMO Toaster that doesn't exist and doesn't actually prove any points. For my part, I'm sorry I perpetuated the analogy.
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Star Wars had day one login issues, so did Rift. Defiance had day one issues and so did TSW. None of those issues were one hour waits. WoW's queues usually amounted to hour waits. That's all I've got off the top of my head. I'm sure other people can trot out a bunch of similar stories.
It wouldn't be fair to not mention that GW2 seemed to get their issues, if they even had any ironed out pretty quickly.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That's very very very funny , lol , well spotted we need a bit of humor round here um i spelled humour wrong meh i give up ,
DON;T PAY IN AN ALPHA OR BETA TEST!
There you go back to normal , BORING!
Btw nice one OP for taking my earlier post in another thread and making a cool thread from it
You get ummm Kudos well you get some of mine.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Nope, I'm neither demanding that the perfect game for me is made, nor am I even playing a game. I recognize the realities.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Whatever massive online game you love/d playing the most was really buggy at release. And probably soaked in developer error as well.
Your choice in how to deal with it.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
correction it used to be this way, beta is now another source of income for modern MMOs, especilly F2Ps since they dont charge for the games download at laucnh instead they charge for early access with packs of diffrent types, and by doing this make most of thier money that they would have made with a B2P game anyway but without upseting people who hate those kind of games.
the trick here is that they are makeing the smae if not more and chargeing more, for games then they used to, and roughly the same amount of people purchase the early start as would have bought the game hasd it been a B2P but for a higher price, AND THEY ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.