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Am I just too old to PvP?
flizzer
Member RarePosts: 2,455
Whether it is GW2 or now Neverwinter, I just can't seem to get anywhere in PvP. Now I'm willing to accept I am just not skilled enough and I will never do well in PvP, but I am also wondering if I am just too old and slow at this point. The PvP in these games just seem to demand fast reaction times that I don't have. Maybe it is a bad ping which I hear people talking about, not sure. Im in my mid 40s and far from in a rocking chair, but I am beginning to feel there is no way I can keep up with these more action oriented games in the PvP department. Okay, now tell me you are in your 70s and routinely take on 18yr olds and make me feel even worse, lol.
Comments
I doubt that it has to do with your age, although if you are playing after a long workday your performance will decrease. And if you are playing with really low FPS or delay you will also have a harder time. I'm sure that GW2 is heavier on your FPS than WoW for example. Try playing something along the lines of League of Legends if you want to tighten your reaction time. And if you are purely looking for PvP you could try Guns of Icarus Online which is actually one of the best lobby based PvP games I've played in a long time.
Also, I have to admit... Reading "lol" from a grown man is a bit cringeworthy unless one is in a game with little to no time to spend in chat. I do of course mean no offense by that.
When I first started seeing "lol" in chat, I felt the same way. Without even realizing it, I have picked up so many bad habits from chat I'm ashamed to admit. Thanks for bringing it to my attention at least.
Doesn't quite matter. I'm one of the few whom are still bothered by it. Bit pointless out of me to even comment on it. But back to the topic; as you grow older you have less time to allocate on such activities, hence you will of course be less in touch with the new mechanics than people whom practise them daily. I still recommend purely PvP games in your case. Easy to pick up, much to learn and satisfying mechanics.
battle ground pvp is more about time than skill. Even the biggest mouth breathing retard can get all the gear if they put in enough time.
Good really doesn't enter into that part of pvp.
I've found as I get older I like mmo pvp less and less. When I want my pvp fix I look more towards lol or wot or some other type of fps/moba game.
Reaction time takes practice to maintain. I am 41 and my reaction time is a good at it ever was but I continue to play real sports and the odd game. I am a retired (from serious competition that is) athlete so I am sure my hand eye coordination is superior to the average but realize it will likely get slower than faster at this point in my life.
Point is, if you didn't have good reaction time/skill when you were young you likely won't have it when old either. 40-50 can still be relative prime time in one's life if you keep healthy and practice fundamental skills. The real issue is that people tend to stop practicing the basics (be it sports or video games) or playing as much as they used to. Of course you get slower and out of practice.
I don't believe it when people say "I don't have time for that anymore!". That is a huge load of bullshit. People judge me all the time for being in great shape at my age and still playing sports (typically volleyball and mma currently) and think I have all the time in the world. I only require about 5 hours of active exercise a week to keep in prime shape (the rest is lifestyle choices). Most people waste more time watching TV or playing video games.
My suggestion is (if you were once good) practice and stop being a lazy ass unless you truly have no interest in it anymore. Hand/eye coordination translates over anything you do. You don't have to play video games to be good at video games. You can go out and train your body and mind doing other things and boost performance for everything across the board.
Also the secret to being great at something isn't reaction time. I have competed against better natural athletes than myself and defeated them. True skill comes from athletic intelligence which is more or less the same thing as video game intelligence. This is why many athletes get better with age or maintain their competitiveness past their physical prime. Smarter is often better than raw physical skill.
You stay sassy!
I agree.
But you know what , I still do it . Win , lose , draw , Who cares . It"s a game . ..
Nah, I suck too, but if 200.000 players play, the 1000 best PvPers will certainly play PvP a lot.
If I'm more skilled than 99% of the player base, I will still not be among those 1000.
The problem is people think they are the bestest, and if they get their arses kicked, it must be because they are getting old or something. If not, they SHOULD be the bestest.
I'm more badass now than I ever was, but unfortunately I'm only better than 99%, which means thousands are better than me. The 99% doesn't PvP.
Kid gamers tend to have a surplus of time to abuse, practicing skill oriented games, or building powerful characters. In most MMOs though, its often just a character gap, skill fails to be a factor until your nearly the same in development.
Beyond that, the combat behavior may be a little too uncomfortable for your enjoyment, I never really tried hard on starcraft and warcraft as it would hurt my eyes, head, and hand to perform well. One of the world's best players had to take a break due to medical problems, not all these games are designed with comfortable input in mind...
I wouldn't sweat it, if you really wanna PvP, just do some studying, most battles are won before they start, IRL and in video games, the player who prepares and practices more has already won. Age is a long way from being a significant factor.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Playing video games is a waste of time but volleyball isnt? Alrighty then...
Well if you're concerned about whether you "still got it", I'd start in skill-centric PVP games first. (Not MMORPGs.)
Granted, GW2 may be one of the most level playing fields for MMORPG PVP (is it completely level? Not sure, I didn't put too much time into PVP to know if it was truly a progression-free environment apart from the ~30 mins it takes to unlock each weapon combination's skills.) So if there was any MMORPG truly indicative of player skill, GW2 might be it (or WOW arena tournaments where everyone has identical gear.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I am older and i do very well in real pvp games,example twitched based FPS games.Those games take a ton more skill than any rpg or MOBA so i would say age is not a factor.
There are so many reasons pvp in rpg's is so bad and it has nothing to do with you or the reason you might be struggling.Latency can be a factor ,packet loss works in dumbfounded ways.What i have noticed over the years is even 1% PL can make players invisible to you for a second,it can also make the game misread some of your damage,so it might only send half your damage to the server.
Examples they might have better gear or better stats /abilities from playing longer.The game might require too much keyboard skill which imo is a bad game design.A game might simply be very one dimensional that does not suit a "thinking" type player that likes to have various options to game play.If i made that part sound confusing an example would be a game that ONLY relies on aim and nothing else,that is one dimensional pvp and not worth the time of day but obviously some will be way better at that than others.
There can also be other reasons like perhaps you are just not playing a class that suits the way you think .
Other factors are soem games allow far too many add ons ,at times they can literally play a game for them,which again is shallow,imo add ons should only be designed by the developer.Your setup can be a fairly large factor example playing with a controller might be better than a keyboard or vice versa depending on yourself of course.GPU lag can really ruin your game.
One of the biggest factors that has been around for many years is cheating and that has many forms,i know them all and can usually spot one quickly.You would be surprised what kind of cheats are out there that can be near impossible to detect unless you are a veteran of your game.
A few examples are
1 SPEED cheats,they speed up your system and it gives you a timed advantage over others.
2 Lag cheats this is done by writing a small script that forces lag making you flash across the screen and near impossible to detect where exactly you are.
3 POS cheats,players can use the game code settings to warp around various positions on a map that can include high in the sky or under the ground.
4 AIMBOTS there are so many versions it would make your head spin.Some or most include other cheats like wall hacks.Some can estimate latency to be more accurate some can only trigger when your crosshair is on target "trigger bot" many many more.
I'll stop there but you get the point,pvp has sooooo many reasons that can ruin the whole purpose which is FUN.Thing is to not take it too serious because there many many reasons that can leave you handicapped and not realize it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
At least you accept you might be bad, its the first step towards getting better. Most people never realise this...
also neverwinter PvP is terrible, so is GW2, there is skill in it no doubt, but thats through teamwork, and target priority, switching etc.. GW2 combat is mostly a button mash. Faceroll harder.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
I understand that a statement like that sounds arrogant but it is very true.
With sports I was the best at my high school in nearly every sport I played in (senior year of course). In college I knew I could make any team I wanted to try out for (I never even worried about it). In video games my biggest geek moment was during my time playing Day of Defeat (an original half life engine game). I played CAL with a buddy and we played for a few teams in our time but were so damn good at that game that we had gone up against ranked 5 or 6 man teams (can't even remember how big the average team was anymore ... so long ago) and defeated them 5/6 on 2.
I have to say I was so damn good at that game it even scared me. I was banned from nearly every PUG server because they thought I cheated. Even players who swore they were awesome were no match (I was invited on a team once because on their practice server I walked over them so much that they asked to actually see me play in real life. Their core members were in my city so we met up and they couldn't believe how well both myself and my friend could play DoD ... they were ranked CAL players remember). That said I ran into a very small handful of players who were just as good as me and even better in some areas.
Meeting these players at that skill level is amazing though. At some point you realize you aren't learning anything new as things become too easy. It is funny how a game where thousands play you can find a very small portion of truly skilled players and they all know instantly who each other is. I knew each of their play styles backwards and forwards. It is actually why I could eventually defeat them on average more than they defeated. Typically they would walk over me but I would slowly learn their tactics and best them before long. Some had serious skill and I admit they were even better than me. Luckily in DoD spacial awareness, map control and knowing some very closely held "trade secrets" (not cheats but tactics) would often turn fights into my favor. This was remembering the games we knew hacks weren't playing a role of course.
Besides rambling on I guess my point is that one has to realize that there are players out there that take their game VERY seriously and are pros because they practice like pros. You have to accept you can only compete up to a % of their level unless you commit like they do. Even someone with lesser skill than you will beat you in games where gaming intelligence can be applied. I could go from well practiced maps in DoD absolutely dominating everyone (10-1 kill ratios or better easily) then on a new map to me and completely suck the big one (like 2-1 ratio which in my mind was scary bad).
You stay sassy!
MMO's aren't a test of player skill at all - there are too many other factors that will allow you to be out geared, out numbered, out leveled etc. To me, MMO PvP is where the people who are bad at FPS 1v1 come to PvP because as mentioned above they will at least get the satisfaction of killing someone at some stage.
I'm 46 and back in my day I used to play Quake competitively - I have won country CTF and TDM championships and 5th 1v1. Back then I HAD TO play 4-6hrs a night to maintain a high aim accuracy and to memorise maps, sounds, timings etc. People who are bad often rant about twitch reflexes but in reality while you do get a twitch kill now and then mostly its due to you having honed your aim. During that time when people who couldn't play well joined server they got smashed and MMO's or those machine gun style spray and wipe FPS (CS, Battlefield etc) became popular because of the lesser skill requirement.
While at the highest level ther are some great MMO PvP players these are people that were also great FPS players. The average players that are beating you are more than likely out leveling, gearing, numbering, classing you.
I still don't get why PvP in MMO's doesn't have a mode where you can join an arena 1v1 and pick a premade class with equalised gear and dual - well I do, its because it would turn MMO's backwards to the original competitive level of games of old and drive players away which is bad for business.
Just imagine, being able to join an arean and dual with the same class and gear - then you'd truly know where you stand.
I'm pushing 50 myself and I think it's just a question of habit and practice more than anything. Yes, reactions do start to fade but not to any amount that should preclude you enjoying PvP.
I came from a FPS background before getting into MMO's in the late 90's and I've kept my "twitch" by continuing to play FPS games. The trend to a more action oriented combat in MMO's hasn't bothered me due to still having the muscle memory / habit / skill, whatever you want to call it, from FPS games.
If you find you're having trouble with this kind of combat then I highly recommend you go play a bit of TF2 or even some World of Tanks, which is a bit slower paced but will still get you into that habit of aiming where you want to hit.
It really is just a question of practice. Don't give up just yet. I'm sure you have a few years in you yet.
Well, I'm 2 years older than you and I do rather well i pvp "depending" on the game and class.
The best I've ever done was in Tera.
I took 3 attackers and was able to kill one but there was a stalemate with the remaining two as I was a lancer and had to deal with their ability to completely jump out of my way. Still, I wasn't killed and then a group of others ran after them and they took off.
I was able to take on two reds who were descending on one character who apparently wasn't pvp minded and kill one though the other jumped on their horse and I wasn't able to catch him before he ran to a safe zone.
lastly I had a warrior who was red and very cocky start jumping around me while I was minding my own business. If I remember correctly he was 2 levels above me. I think he "thought" he was psyching me out. I paid him no mind until he started to attack me.
There was one white player who ran up to help me but then realized I didn't need it so he just watched.
In the end I find that the "aiming/action" combat for me is a better fit than tab targeting.
This doesn't mean that I'm the best. Hardly. But I found that I was able to hold my own when needed.
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Sadly that is most mmos greatest failing. I practically screamed at the devs in most mmos I have played asking why the f$ck a player couldn't just ever match up against other players with THE EXACT SAME GEAR LEVEL and see who actually wins. This is practically non-existent in mmos.
I understand most don't understand why this bothers me so much but reading my posts in this thread should teach people that I am a sportsman. I want an even playing field so people can compete. There is no competition when fairness does not exist. This is why DoD was so damn fun for me. There was no grind to get gear ... you simply played. I can't even touch todays FPS games because they made it into a grind to get gear you should bloody well have from the start. Telling me I have to play for dozens of hours just to unlock crap to put me on par with others in a F$CKING FPS GAME!!! pisses me off too much to bother play them (that and their graphics keep getting better but have shit realism and physics).
Developers have placed time played far above the importance of player skill. I can't even imagine now many truly good players have never been able to compete in top end mmo pvp in many games simply because they couldn't stomach the grind to get the best gear. I am exactly like that. I prefer to actually play mmos ... not have them play me. Once I feel like things become a grind I quit. This is why CU interests me greatly. The ENTIRE game is pvp and will be extremely dynamic as it is based entirely within the main game world in large scale.
You stay sassy!
Open PvP requires alot more cunning(no im not talking about waiting for somebody to get to half health while mob farming) and it requires much more spatial awareness and being in touch with the player pshyce and i believe it to be more strategic in nature.
..and 2 of the same classes duelling to see who is better?...have you ever watched 2 of the same classes duel in an MMO? id honestly rather have sex with a dude, its less unnatural and atleast there might be some pleasure in it....and it could all be over with before the 2 rogues have even broken stealth on eachother once...
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
I don't know what it is, but many E-sport players have stated that once they get into their mid 20s, their reflexes started to go down. It could be something with muscle memory as we age. I don't know.
You can't be sure what you are dealing with in MMO PvP. $1200 SSD and 30 Mbps or they are modded to cheat.
I've played EVE online for 8 years and 90% of EVE I could whip in a PvP fight. I know because they are going the other way most of the time. They don't want to fight me. The 10% that aren't have something up their sleeve. In PotBS most of my fights were either 6 vs 1 or speed jockey, stern campers. In anything level based, they were 20 levels above me or a class that was clearly designed to kill my class.
It isn't players, it's games. Yes, no. 0 or 1. Can or can't. Video game fights are won or lost before they even start. The only thing that changes that are random screw ups like disconnects or a sudden drop in latency and those don't count for much in the skill department. It's really all about your hardware.